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false. research MTHFR synthetic folic acid that is fortified in foods is very bad for people who cant convert it to the active form. if you dismiss this, you are dismissing a possible cure.
plus, i just posted 3 medical abstracts that specifically state accutane impairs folate status. These people probably didnt change their diet when on the drug.
Every synthetic inactive form cause deficiencies i know yes.
There is no "cure", if you think like that you will never get well, for sure. People want easy solution, just take an other pill to get better, you have been deceived by medical doctors, this is not the way the body work.
Yea they certainly was meat eaters.
Everyone can be B12 deficient, accutane or not, meat eaters or not.
Luckily the people who had Polio and Smallpox didnt think the same way!
Think logically....
Accutane hurts more people than others. Some people have to take multiple course of the drug to have any effect... and when they discontinue it, they immediately excrete whatever metabolite is in them. While others take this drug one time, at the minimal dose, and experience all type of side effects that DONT go away for 20 years!
Now what is the difference in these cases? I believe its in our individual genetic makeup. The ability to detoxify or not. I would put the bad accutane experience at around 20%... which is roughly the amount of people who have this MTHFR defect. Now we have more data that wasnt available even 5 years ago. These studies arent done for no reason at all. Even these active forms of folate haventy been around for consumers long. It doesnt hurt to try this protocol.
Sorry but that's dumb thinking and can't be further from the truth. You won't ever heal yourself by focusing on genetic and ignoring the lymphatic system. But try this way yourself if you want, i did it too back in the days when i was ignorant too, you'll just loose precious time.
Just another study showing Folic acid prevented birst defects caused by retinoic acid:
Craniofacial malformations are among the most common congenital deformities. Meckel's cartilage plays a major role in the development of the mandible and is highly susceptible to maternal teratogenic drug use. We therefore investigated possible protective effects of prenatal administration of folic acid on a retinoic-acid induced maxillofacial defect model. Sprague-Dawley pregnant female rats (n = 36) were used in this study. Retinoic acid was administered orally at the dose of 40, 60, or 80 mg/kg respectively on gestational day 8. Folic acid of 4.0 mg/kg was injected intraperitoneally on 7th, 8th and 9th days of pregnancy. Animals were sacrificed on the day 17th. Administration of retinoic acid at all doses resulted in statistically significant decreases in mean fetal weight and mean fetal height and the increase in mortality rate, and caused severe ultrastructural damages in Meckel's cartilage. Folic acid administration prevented the decrease in mean fetal weight and height of the embryos treated with retinoic acid of 40 mg/kg. In addition, there was a marked decrease in the number of degenerated chondrocytes and an improvement in the structure of granular endoplasmic reticulum along with intact nuclei. We conclude that folic acid has protective effects on retinoic acid-induced intracellular damages in Meckel's cartilage
.... I think the key in all of this is how people convert Folic acid individually. Using the right form and supplement cant do anything but help!
Plus... isnt the current thinking that accutane downregulates/upregulates certain gene expression? why else does it continue to work after treatment (besides the obvious that the metabolite is stuck in you liver and fat?)
I took 5-MTHF from thorne (and to be honest it maked me feel worse, only the B12 helped from the 9999 supplement i tried). But again, that's dumb thinking, i'm far beyond that supplement thing now. And no, i don't care about your DNA test. I had brain/psychic symptom beyong you can imagine, i don't need confirmation or looking for a stupid theory to verify it.
If you want to try it, go on, loose your time and money. You can take every synthetic chemical you want, they won't detox you, move your lymph or restore your glands and kidney function.
And about your bacteria & viruses (not man-made) they aren't the problem, they can't thrive in a clean & healthy environment, they fed on waste/toxins & poisoned cells in the toxic medium, they actually help eliminating those waste by breaking them down. And yes they can kill you if the reaction goes beyond the capacity of your immune system, if you accumulated so much toxicity and weakness from wrong lifestyle for years. Nature get rid of what is weak & broken. In extreme cases some drugs can save lives but it won't resolve the real problem.
On 9/30/2014 at 11:06 PM, tryingtohelp2014 said:It is the active form of Folate that i think we really need along with the active form of B12 and P-5-P (B6) along with biotin. This goes all the way to the epi-genetic spectrum of healing and restarting.
I think the ones having the most problems getting rid of this drug, are the ones with the genetic MTHFR defect. We are stuck is a viscious cycle, and cannot detox. There is not a doubt in my mind that a metabolite is stuck in me. I went on an extreme weight loss protocol a few years ago... and the symptoms came out with a vengence, just like i was on the drug again... and my body simply couldnt get rid of it, so as soon as i stiopped, it went right back to being stored in the liver or the fat.
[Edited link out]
These will start the detox pathway to be restarted:
B12
5-methylfolate
P-5-P
Magnesium
TMG
Probiotics (this drug ruins our gut only further complicating the B-vitamin status..must heal the gut)
This seekinghealth product is not available in Germany. Is this the same:
[Edited link out]
On 10/1/2014 at 1:55 AM, anonyy said:I took 5-MTHF from thorne (and to be honest it maked me feel worse, only the B12 helped from the 9999 supplement i tried). But again, that's dumb thinking, i'm far beyond that supplement thing now. And no, i don't care about your DNA test. I had brain/psychic symptom beyong you can imagine, i don't need confirmation or looking for a stupid theory to verify it.
If you want to try it, go on, loose your time and money. You can take every synthetic chemical you want, they won't detox you, move your lymph or restore your glands and kidney function.
And about your bacteria & viruses (not man-made) they aren't the problem, they can't thrive in a clean & healthy environment, they fed on waste/toxins & poisoned cells in the toxic medium, they actually help eliminating those waste by breaking them down. And yes they can kill you if the reaction goes beyond the capacity of your immune system, if you accumulated so much toxicity and weakness from wrong lifestyle for years. Nature get rid of what is weak & broken. In extreme cases some drugs can save lives but it won't resolve the real problem.
Wouldnt you expect to feel worse at first when detoxing? maybe that meant it was actually working?! then you have to think... how can this actually make you feel worse if it has nothing to do with accutane?! how long did you take it for... and at what dosage? did you take it with the other MTHFR B's? i dont understand how anyone can dismiss the folic acid /retinoic acid relationship when so many medical studies are published on it? where are the retinoic acid lymph studies or the retinoic acid kidney studies?
On 10/1/2014 at 2:53 AM, Roland1968 said:On 9/30/2014 at 11:06 PM, tryingtohelp2014 said:It is the active form of Folate that i think we really need along with the active form of B12 and P-5-P (B6) along with biotin. This goes all the way to the epi-genetic spectrum of healing and restarting.
I think the ones having the most problems getting rid of this drug, are the ones with the genetic MTHFR defect. We are stuck is a viscious cycle, and cannot detox. There is not a doubt in my mind that a metabolite is stuck in me. I went on an extreme weight loss protocol a few years ago... and the symptoms came out with a vengence, just like i was on the drug again... and my body simply couldnt get rid of it, so as soon as i stiopped, it went right back to being stored in the liver or the fat.
[Edited link out]
These will start the detox pathway to be restarted:
B12
5-methylfolate
P-5-P
Magnesium
TMG
Probiotics (this drug ruins our gut only further complicating the B-vitamin status..must heal the gut)
This seekinghealth product is not available in Germany. Is this the same:
[Edited link out]
looks ok. i would try to find the individual active Bs so you can take them in different dosages to play around with what feels right when detoxing.
You don't understand. The is NO need to supplement with man-made synthetic chemicals when you can find it in a far better form in (raw) fruits & vegetables. The only exception is B12. And you seriously misunderstood what is detoxification & how the body work, a synthetic nutrient won't move your lymph and get your adrenals up & your kidneys filtering.
where are the retinoic acid lymph node studies or the retinoic acid kidney studies?
Is this a joke ? You doesn't seems to understand that every health issue are cellular environment related from a lymphatic congestion & a lack of drainage from the kidneys/colon.
I didnt know this:
What a defective (mutated) MTHFR gene does to you
It produces a defective MTHFR enzyme of different varieties i.e. it functions less than optimally, such as performing at only 40% of its capacity, or 70% of its capacity. It can mean you wont break down toxins or heavy metals well i.e. you could find yourself with high iron, or high copper, or high lead, or high mercury.etc. High copper can also cause low ferritin, even though your iron levels look great!
The defective enzyme doesnt break down folate vitamins properly (of which folic acid is the precursor to), which can cause high homocysteine, which can increase your risk of coronary heart disease (arteriosclerotic vascular disease or venous thrombosis), and related heart and BP conditions, as well as increasing your risk for dementia.
Homocysteine is poorly converted to glutathione, which is your bodys chief antioxidant and detoxifier. You are then more susceptible to stress and toxin buildup.
Homocysteine is poorly converted to methionine, and less methionine can raise your risk of arteriosclerosis, fatty liver degenerative disease, anemia (see Wiki), increased inflammation, increased free radical damage and produce less SAM-e
Less SAM-e can increase depression
And more broadly, an MTHFR defect can increase your risk of a variety of cancers (including breast and prostate cancer), stroke, heart problems, congenital defects, depression, IBS (irritable bowel syndrome), miscarriages, migraines, chemical sensitivities and many conditions.
You can find yourself with high folate or high B12 i.e. your body will have problems converting inactive forms of folate and B12 to the active forms. So the inactive folate or B12 will simply build up in your serum, also inhibiting the active forms. Most serum folate tests are actually measuring folic acid, which needed to be converted to methylfolate to be used metabolically.
The journal Molecular Psychiatry states that Schizophrenia-like syndromes, bipolar disorder, Parkinsons disease, Alzheimers disease and vascular dementia have all been associated with one or more mutations of the MTHFR gene. (2006;11, 352360)
You don't understand. The is NO need to supplement with man-made synthetic chemicals when you can find it in a far better form in (raw) fruits & vegetables. The only exception is B12. And you seriously misunderstood what is detoxification & how the body work, a synthetic nutrient won't move your lymph and get your adrenals up & your kidneys filtering.
where are the retinoic acid lymph node studies or the retinoic acid kidney studies?
Is this a joke ?
YOU JUST DONT GET IT!!!! some people CANT CONVERT the FOLIC ACID from VEGETABLES at the correct RATE!!!!!
THEY . HAVE. A . GENETIC. DEFECT.
READDDDDDDDDD
And you can't read when i told you this is bullcrap? If you coudn't use folate you would have been dead already and not even born. Your cellular environment is congestioned, by taking very high amount of synthetic nutrient some can reach the cells and you temporarly feel better (or the opposite) but you'll see, you'll have to take more and more and never truely feel better. Already tried that way, do what you want and loose your time, have fun.
I didnt know this:
What a defective (mutated) MTHFR gene does to you
It produces a defective MTHFR enzyme of different varieties i.e. it functions less than optimally, such as performing at only 40% of its capacity, or 70% of its capacity. It can mean you wont break down toxins or heavy metals well i.e. you could find yourself with high iron, or high copper, or high lead, or high mercury.etc. High copper can also cause low ferritin, even though your iron levels look great!
The defective enzyme doesnt break down folate vitamins properly (of which folic acid is the precursor to), which can cause high homocysteine, which can increase your risk of coronary heart disease (arteriosclerotic vascular disease or venous thrombosis), and related heart and BP conditions, as well as increasing your risk for dementia.
Homocysteine is poorly converted to glutathione, which is your bodys chief antioxidant and detoxifier. You are then more susceptible to stress and toxin buildup.
Homocysteine is poorly converted to methionine, and less methionine can raise your risk of arteriosclerosis, fatty liver degenerative disease, anemia (see Wiki), increased inflammation, increased free radical damage and produce less SAM-e
Less SAM-e can increase depression
And more broadly, an MTHFR defect can increase your risk of a variety of cancers (including breast and prostate cancer), stroke, heart problems, congenital defects, depression, IBS (irritable bowel syndrome), miscarriages, migraines, chemical sensitivities and many conditions.
You can find yourself with high folate or high B12 i.e. your body will have problems converting inactive forms of folate and B12 to the active forms. So the inactive folate or B12 will simply build up in your serum, also inhibiting the active forms. Most serum folate tests are actually measuring folic acid, which needed to be converted to methylfolate to be used metabolically.
The journal Molecular Psychiatry states that Schizophrenia-like syndromes, bipolar disorder, Parkinsons disease, Alzheimers disease and vascular dementia have all been associated with one or more mutations of the MTHFR gene. (2006;11, 352360)
note the high Homocysteine marker and the retinoic acid study on the increased Homocysteine levels and depleted folic acid
And you can't read when i told you this is bullcrap? If you coudn't use folate you woud have been dead already and not even born.
yeah but the difference is i posted 4 different medical abstracts backing my hypothesis.... you just spout "bullcrap" and "brain/psychic?!" problems?
I didnt know this:
What a defective (mutated) MTHFR gene does to you
It produces a defective MTHFR enzyme of different varieties i.e. it functions less than optimally, such as performing at only 40% of its capacity, or 70% of its capacity. It can mean you wont break down toxins or heavy metals well i.e. you could find yourself with high iron, or high copper, or high lead, or high mercury.etc. High copper can also cause low ferritin, even though your iron levels look great!
The defective enzyme doesnt break down folate vitamins properly (of which folic acid is the precursor to), which can cause high homocysteine, which can increase your risk of coronary heart disease (arteriosclerotic vascular disease or venous thrombosis), and related heart and BP conditions, as well as increasing your risk for dementia.
Homocysteine is poorly converted to glutathione, which is your bodys chief antioxidant and detoxifier. You are then more susceptible to stress and toxin buildup.
Homocysteine is poorly converted to methionine, and less methionine can raise your risk of arteriosclerosis, fatty liver degenerative disease, anemia (see Wiki), increased inflammation, increased free radical damage and produce less SAM-e
Less SAM-e can increase depression
And more broadly, an MTHFR defect can increase your risk of a variety of cancers (including breast and prostate cancer), stroke, heart problems, congenital defects, depression, IBS (irritable bowel syndrome), miscarriages, migraines, chemical sensitivities and many conditions.
You can find yourself with high folate or high B12 i.e. your body will have problems converting inactive forms of folate and B12 to the active forms. So the inactive folate or B12 will simply build up in your serum, also inhibiting the active forms. Most serum folate tests are actually measuring folic acid, which needed to be converted to methylfolate to be used metabolically.
The journal Molecular Psychiatry states that Schizophrenia-like syndromes, bipolar disorder, Parkinsons disease, Alzheimers disease and vascular dementia have all been associated with one or more mutations of the MTHFR gene. (2006;11, 352360)
note the high Homocysteine marker and the retinoic acid study on the increased Homocysteine levels and depleted folic acid
>And you can't read when i told you this is bullcrap? If you coudn't use folate you woud have been dead already and not even born.
yeah but the difference is i posted 4 different medical abstracts backing my hypothesis.... you just spout "bullcrap" and "brain/psychic?!" problems?
wrong, im not saying wqe cant use it... we just use it at a much lower level.
I don't care of your studies ? You don't even have to take accutane to have those problem you realize that? Those studies just proove that accutane profoundly affected cells & congested the cellular environment. And what you want to do to help that? bring even more congestion with synthetic crap?
And you can't read when i told you this is bullcrap? If you coudn't use folate you would have been dead already and not even born. Your cellular environment is congestioned, by taking very high amount of synthetic nutrient some can reach the cells and you temporarly feel better (or the opposite) but you'll see, you'll have to take more and more and never truely feel better. Already tried that way, do what you want and loose your time, have fun.
cellular environment congested why?
maybe because we cant methylate correctly?
maybe its the low glutathione
Or maybe its the poor SAM-E
or possibly a clogged fatty liver?
hmmm...what would help all of those? If you know of the bodies other detoxification pathways that the medical journals dont know about, let us know please.
You don't understand what is detoxification. Detoxification is eliminative. You explain me how some methylation issue within the brain (caused by a congested environment btw) will drain the lymph from the kidneys?
Sorry to break your illusion of a magical pill who will solve every problems with low effort in a short time but it's simply not how the body work.
You don't understand what is detoxification. Detoxification is eliminative. You explain me how some methylation issue within the brain (caused by a congested environment btw) will drain the lymph from the kidneys?
Listen, this stuff is not stored in your brain... or your kidney. thats #1. you have to ELIMINATE IT from the body by whatever means necessary(synthetic or otherwise.) The kidney is just one elimination route.... but treating the kidney or lymph nodes wont mobilize the metabolite thats stored in the fat or the liver. you have to deal with the enzymes and genes that deal with the liver detoxification pathways imo.
i think #1 you have to get to a state where the drug metabolite is circulating again... either thru fasting or extreme exercise, and then hit the metabolite with everything to eliminate it. That being all of the active forms of B along with other supportive minerals that deal SPECIFICALLY with your bodies WELL KNOWN methylation processes.
And to say you dont care about the medical studies.... why the @#!%$ am i even arguing with you?????
Of course it's not stored anywhere.
You won't eliminate a toxic molecule with an other toxic molecule or a nutrient in a not enough quantity.
You don't have metabolite anymore except if you are only < 1-2 years after the last pill.
Liver isn't a detoxifying organ but deals with nutrients & equilibrium of the blood. It deals with accutane when it's in circulation (his job) but 3-5 years after there is no more accutane.
The point is not to detox accutane (except if < 1-2 years and you'll use herbs) but the devastation it caused within the body, the toxic medium, the poisoned dead cells + glands weakness & the lack of filtration & bad diet is what prevent the healing. Every problems come from a toxic environment, cells can't regenerate in such a medium.
The lymph (via the kidney and colon) is what deal with cleansing the cells & the medium, if you focus on the blood (liver, ..) and toxic synthetic nutrient you are living in an illusion.
Of course it's not stored anywhere.
You won't eliminate a toxic molecule with an other toxic molecule.
You don't have metabolite anymore except if you are only < 1-2 years after the last pill.
Liver isn't a detoxifying organ but deals with nutrients & equilibrium. It dead with accutane when it's in circulation (his job) but 3-5 years after there is no more accutane.
The point is not to detox accutane but the devastation it caused within the body, the poisoned dead cells + glands weakness & the lack of filtration & bad diet is what prevent the healing. Every problems come from a toxic environment, a cell can't regenerate in a bad medium.
The lymph is what deal with cleansing the cells & the medium, if you focus on the blood and toxic synthetic nutrient you are living in an illusion.
NOT TRUE AT ALL. nobody even knows why this drug really works...and youre going to trust somebody to say it eliminated from the body? Personally i know for a FACT thats it is still stored in my body... one, because i still have side effects... 2... and this is the most important one.... i did an extreme exercise program with the sole intent to try to mobilize it from the liver and fat.... as i dropped weight ...now this is 10 years after taking the drug mind you....i experienced the SAME EXACT side effects as when i was on the drug ( cracking /bleeding lips, joint pain, dry eyes hands and feet) I FELT THE DRUG!! Nobody and i mean nobody can tell me otherwise. I have seen this stated NUMEROUS times by other accutane victims who have tried the same thing.. Towards the end of this, when the side effects were so strong, i would almost breakthru sometimes and i would get oily skin again!!!!! but it was too much to take, and i stopped. as soon as i stopped and put on more weight, the side effects lessened to what they are now... some joint pain, dry skin, very poor wound healing, fatigue etc etc.
All i was doing, was mobilizing the metabolite without giving my body the means to excrete it or conjugate it.
I believe i have found the second piece to my puzzle to eliminate it for good.
And even if i agree with you, that the drug is completely gone and the only thing that has changed is the gene expression.... you know what fixes that? active folate and b-12
And then you say the liver isnt a detoxifying organ... what $#% planet are you living on? and i dont want to hear some existential garbage.
The gut/colon is a HUGE part in this. this drug ruins your gut... thats why you see IBS and Crohns. sauerkraut kimche miso probiotics all helpful. and what are they helpful for? this is where your body produces the detoxing B vitamins of course!
Acne = filtration from the third kidney (skin), accutane work simply by destroying it. If you have the side effect it's because you still didn't fixed the real cause of acne.
It's because your intense excercice created even more toxic metabolic waste while you were still not filtering, and i'm sure you ate too much protein, the most toxic nutrient of all.
I don't believe in this epigenetic theory, and it's not even epigenetic modification it's just in the "last steps" of the process of expression and it's temporary, like when you take any drug, it induce expression change but not forever, same with sunburn or eating an apple, everything affect gene expression, the medium is everything if you wan't to fix any problem.
Acne = filtration from the third kidneys (skin), it work simply by destroying it. If you have the side effect it's because you still didn't fixed the real cause of acne. It's simply because your intense excercice created even more toxic metabolic waste while you were still not filtering, and i'm sure you ate too much protein, the most toxic nutrient of all.
I don't believe in this epigenetic theory, and it's not even epigenetic modification it's just in the "last steps" of the process of expression and it's temporary, like when you took any drug, it induce expression change but not forever, same with sunburn or eating an apple, everything affect geneexpression, the medium is everything if you wan't to fix any problem.
ACNE= several different versions . hormonal being #1 allergic reactions #2 deficiency # 3 (most likely a zinc one) #4 toxin excretion
My diet did not change, only the exercise part. i actually ate much worse after to try to put on weight to lessen the side effects (which worked)
epigenetic would be temporary if the metabolite is no longer present in any of the bodies cells, fat or otherwise, downregulating the gene.
Hormonal acne doesn't exist, it's just that some aggressive hormone are highly reactive in a toxic environment and provoque those elimination crisis. Allergy = lymph congestion & intestinal hyperpermeability. It's toxin excretion, yes.
Even if the metabolite isn't present anymore the cells will have huge difficulties coming back to normal if the environment is highly toxic.
@tryingtohelp2014- You're wasting time and mental effort arguing with this guy. Think he's been trolling this board since 2013. Vehemently defends homeopathy. He says he fully recovered, yet lurks this thread more than people who are still experiencing some pretty awful side effects. Waits until a topic that has some basis in observed physiological conditions is discussed, then attacks with nonsense from conspiracy websites.
If you argue with him, you will go around in circles. If you don't argue, he will keep posting nonsense anyways, but less often.
He seems to be a permanent fixture here though.
Better to just agree with him that lymphnodes congested with toxins are the cause of all disease and move on.
He is like Accutane side effects. Very hard to deal with and never goes away.
btw- I tried 5-L-Methylfolate (Douglas labs brand), along with b6 and b12. Took them for a month and they did absolutely nothing to help.
This guy and his ego x) there is no shame of being wrong, i know you posted a lot of brain-masturbating bullcrap here and you have difficulties assuming it but you know, we all did this same thing at some point.
And now my recent talking about supplementing isn't a solution and that you should focus on using herbs to cleanse your cells medium & lymph system is called homeopathy :/ .. genius. Always the same guy who have nothing real to say expect trying to make fun of people on some details & futile things, trying to attack people personnaly instead the informations, you'll never get better i'm afraid, but i'm sure you already know it since you already maked that choice. That's the difference between us, you attack people, i attack beliefs & false informations.
Almost all i say is what i learnd from Robert Morse, maybe you have more experience, knowledge and success than him? no, he's real, getting result, you are just brain-fapping on dumb studies who means nothing with no result and nothing real, deceiving people with your ignorance and stupidity.
You don't even have to know about Dr Morse, every people who got well after accutane was the one knowing how to detox and eat properly and who were patient.
If i'm still here it's only because i feel the necessity of sharing what i tried for getting my health back, who is certainly far more that all of you ever tried, researched and experimented. I just have to tell the truth when i see misinformation about something i already experienced & learn from people who succeed.