Man! There was a medical journal article I stumbled upon years ago where the authors claimed isotretinoin is a poor choice compared to other chemotherapy drugs for leukemia because its risk to benefit ratio is too high. ...but it is acceptable to hand out as a treatment for moderate acne.

I would give my dysfunctional left nut to be able to find that again.

Gladiator, totally agree, but who is going to stop them?

Roche and the generic manufacturers have the blessings of the FDA and NHS after all. I'm pretty sure if you're a good boy or girl, you are likely to get promoted from the within the FDA to a cush job in the pharma industry.

People with money and political power have lost their health and family members to Accutane, and it hasn't made much difference except for Roche pulling Tane out of the US market where the generic manufacturers are free to do as they will without fear of litigation.

There isn't even a single common enemy to put a stop to any longer, if you look at it that way.

Prob true. Again, doctors need to better explain the effects of this drug to young people.

Most studies show that Epigenetic changes are reversible. Until they invent a specific drug that can induce the epigenetic changes necessary to counteract the effects of Accutane, our best bet is a healthy diet (fruits, vegetables, etc.).

Certain vitamins like D, B, E, C, digest enzymes, and Acetyl-Carnitiine can at least reduce the damages of accutane

On 11/12/2013 at 1:12 AM, anonyy said:

It as 100% nothing to do with genetic or epigenetic. It's about accutane who multiply x100 any weakness we had before by overwhelming an already tired and weak body. Changing diet (no meat, grains, dairy), no acidic food, regeneration of the intestine/colon and taking herbs to help the detoxination of the remaining toxins/acids/accutane is enough to heal ourselves. Epigenetic/genetic is a bad excuse we use when we don't know how the body or a drug work.

The fact that this drug permanently resolves acne for many who take it points to long term changes in gene expression as a direct or indirect effect of the drug. It potentially "weakens"the body through this mechanism, leading to observable side effects.

Early gene changes induced by isotretinoin in the skin provide clues to its mechanism of action:

[Edited link out]

Epigenetic modification of retinoic acid-treated human embryonic stem cells:

[Edited link out]

Not trying to argue how valid any conventional or alternative treatment might be, but this drug 100% absolutely, positively does have epigenetic effects. That's not up for debate.

...Unless you want to argue that Accutane babies are often born severely deformed and retarded because their mothers consumed too much wheat and dairy from breakfast cereals.

You can speak for yourself for having an already tired and weak body before Accutane too. Most of us were the epitome of healthy young adults and teenagers before the drug, unless you buy into the hogwash that acne is a sign of physical illness.

Believe me, I wish the biological effects of accutane weren't true.

Its also interesting that tons of people dont get any side effects until a year after stopping the drug.

So in addition to the epigentic effects, there may also be a storage component to it. Your body stores the drug, and is later released to you other tissues like joints, intestine, etc.

I managed to eliminate the cyclicality and fragility!

First I got a healthy, controlled baseline: rice and lean shrimp only. Then I introduced new things. First I tried free range lean chicken breast. Worked fine. Then same chicken type but drumsticks, and yogurt. Gradually proceeded to meltdown. Cannot tolerate fat. Dialed back to lowfat chicken breast, rice and shrimp. Worked again.

Adding the chicken breast makes the diet more stable:

1.I can overeat without abnormal consequences.

2. The abnormal compulsion to overeat is gone

3. I have more energy and better mood

I theorize this is because the chicken breast gives me sufficient protein, and a little bit of very diluted fat.

I now know for sure that fat quantity alone is a trigger. This confirms the general trend of the dirtier data I accumulated in the past.

I'm now able to make zero-variance clean experiments, because simply staying healthy and on regimen is no longer a struggle. Even when you factor in life/job interruptions.

Regimen summary:

Eat only

1. true free range lean chicken breast (expensive)

2. Lean white-tail shrimp (moderately expensive)

3. Glutinous rice gruel (very cheap)

All ad libitum, minimum 150g shrimp/d.

Supplements:

1. Blue Ice CLO / Butter Oil blend

2. Udca ~1-3g /d

3. Source Naturals Essential enzymes 2x per meal

4. Symbiotics Colostrum ~1/8 scoop per meal

5. Cycled topical testosterone cream

6. Topical ACV, tea tree oil (morning) and benzoyle peroxide 10% (night)

Zeitgeibers:

1. Aim to nap every 3 hours for 20 minutes

2. Match light exposure to sunrise, sunset

3. Match meals to sun

Of course it cause epigenetic change, it's the natural way of the body to deal with its environment. But it's not permanent at all, if the body stop to be confronted to the poison, epigenetic change come back to normal. It's adaptation not permanent change. But of course if you cause an overdose of vitamin a & an epigenetic change by poisoning the body in the embryos stage, the effect will affect him too with no chance of recover since it will become the base structure of the body.

I think the cause of the long last side effect is hyperresponse or allergic response, only a little bit stored in fat or in circulation/enterohepatic circulation is enough to trigger all the side effects. Maybe that's why the isotherapy is so effective. I saw that hyperresponse when i poisoned myself to chloride gas, even 1 year later if i only breath pool chloride from distance or what, it trigger little bit of asthma back.

But it's mainly by destroying the skin (third kidney), poisoning the liver & kidney that cause the impossibility for the body to detoxify itself from toxins & acids already there before the accutane (who caused the acne) who came from a bad acidic & full of toxins diet (meat, dairy, cereals/grains, processed food, coca-cola, etc..). The cause of all disease, even if they put 50000 different name for all of them, is always excess of toxins, acids, a bad digestive system and deficiencies.

That's why they will never tell us the reason why the effects last so long & how their drug work, they can't tell us that the accutane poison the third kidney to prevent acne, they can't tell us the real cause of acne (exces of acids&toxins), that we need to have a good diet who doesnt add more and more toxins everyday to fix the problem (for acne & accutane). If it was epigenetic change they fucking don't care, they will simply add it to side effects list and its over. They even put sudden death on some drugs so, epigenetic change isn't a big deal for them.
The accutane poison the body first, and then it prevent him from detoxifying itself.

It can be a vitamin A deficiency too, who force the body to release the accutane stored instead of the real vitamin A (simple theory). Retinoic acid is not the only form who the body need.

I still don't understand exactly how those long last side effects works, but it's not epigenetic thats for sure.

I managed to eliminate the cyclicality and fragility!

First I got a healthy, controlled baseline: rice and lean shrimp only. Then I introduced new things. First I tried free range lean chicken breast. Worked fine. Then same chicken type but drumsticks, and yogurt. Gradually proceeded to meltdown. Cannot tolerate fat. Dialed back to lowfat chicken breast, rice and shrimp. Worked again.

Adding the chicken breast makes the diet more stable:

1.I can overeat without abnormal consequences.

2. The abnormal compulsion to overeat is gone

3. I have more energy and better mood

I theorize this is because the chicken breast gives me sufficient protein, and a little bit of very diluted fat.

I now know for sure that fat quantity alone is a trigger. This confirms the general trend of the dirtier data I accumulated in the past.

I'm now able to make zero-variance clean experiments, because simply staying healthy and on regimen is no longer a struggle. Even when you factor in life/job interruptions.

Regimen summary:

Eat only

1. true free range lean chicken breast (expensive)

2. Lean white-tail shrimp (moderately expensive)

3. Glutinous rice gruel (very cheap)

All ad libitum, minimum 150g shrimp/d.

Supplements:

1. Blue Ice CLO / Butter Oil blend

2. Udca ~1-3g /d

3. Source Naturals Essential enzymes 2x per meal

4. Symbiotics Colostrum ~1/8 scoop per meal

5. Cycled topical testosterone cream

6. Topical ACV, tea tree oil (morning) and benzoyle peroxide 10% (night)

Zeitgeibers:

1. Aim to nap every 3 hours for 20 minutes

2. Match light exposure to sunrise, sunset

3. Match meals to sun

Hey Joseph my Blue Ice/butter cinnamon tingle came in the mail , I'm cautiously taking a little bit per day and seeing how my body responds to it , I say cautiously because some supplements I have tried have been a disaster and worsened conditions , question have you noticed any joint pain from this stuff ?

There is a lot of talk that Accutane depletes vitamin A or mimics a deficiency so theoretically blue ice ( COD ) should help..... then there is the retinol part

, so caution is where I'm at with COD.

Playsomebeat,

Can you tell me what exactly is 5-alpha reductase inhibitor?

Agreed. I just don't think the persistence of side effects absolutely means the drug is still in our body years later. I think it caused changes when we took it.

I mean, it's intended to shrink the size of your oil glands permanently, long after it's passed from your system.

If our receptors/gene expression are altered or negatively changed, it may be beyond eating healthy or raw. (Although I would consider going raw or fasting, definitely. Some people here have reported improvement from doing so.) I would never discourage anyone from eating healthy. Might as well optimize your body for natural recovery.

But I have complete sexual dysfunction from two 5-AR inhibitors, and it absolutely feels neurological. If researchers eventually establish why these substances cause cognitive and sexual problems in some individuals, and they create a potential cure, I will be banging down the doors for it. Synthetic or otherwise.

Just found something about people who lost their hair: "The neutralization of acids and toxins by minerals substance causes the formation of salts, which can not be eliminated in large quantities, are deposited in the scalp, especially the hairline.

anonyy, I think people are still unclear on exactly what you did for your cure method. i think it would be interesting to know in the form of a day-to-day guide?

Day 1 = what you took, how much, what did you eat/drink etc

Day 2 =

Day 3.. .etc

I'm also of the belief the drug has mades to my hormone profile, rather than it is still in my body, but if your method has shown improvements for you then I'm interested.

I've just started doing intermittnet fasting (between approx 19:00 and 13:00), taking a multivitamin and choline 500mg. Plan to also add l-carnitine.

On 11/9/2013 at 2:35 PM, Dubya_B said:

Quote

ChampionBlood, on 04 Nov 2013 - 01:43, said:

I've been questioning recently if I have sexual side effects, and the answer seems to be yes. Its especially noticible since I got my new girfriend. I don't know if this is a result of my depression or the effect of the drug. I was never really a sexual person to begin with, so I guess the sexual effects didn't bother me overly much in the past. Since I know you are a member of the ATM forums and are very knowledgable on PFS and Accutane sexual problems, what medical tests would you recommend that I and others get to assess the extent of our sexual side effects?

Strangely, although I have had plenty of tests in the past, I have never had my hormones checked. I would like to compare these results to others possibly here or on the ATM forums.

EDIT: Dubya-b, I found your post on the ATM forums:

quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Testosterone viewpost-right.png

Are there any known hormonal disturbances that commonly show up in lab work after taking Accutane?

"High DHEAS

High Cortisol

Slightly elevated Prolactin

Testosterone on the low-end

DHT on the low-end

A couple of us had 3-Adiol G on the low-end of the range.

A few of us had slightly elevated E2.

Vitamin D on the low-end.

Some of us have various Thyroid hormones either too high or low.

Low FSH and LH.

These are just a few of the common hormonal imbalances that have shown-up, but nothing seems consistent among the majority of us."

I will be getting these tests as soon as I can. Also, probably free cortisol saliva test.

Something strange about the sexual dysfunction caused by Accutane is that many of us have numbness/reduced sensation "down there". Without getting too explicit, I will just say that certain things that used to feel "reeeealy good!" before Accutane only feel "sort of good" after. Some Accutane sufferers have said it doesn't give any more pleasure than rubbing their finger. Also, it seems only about half of the guys on the ATM forum experiencing sexual dysfunction say they are also depressed. So, the ED, reduced pleasure, and reduced libido must occur independently of depression.

Besides the blood tests, you might want to consider the Rhein lab's 24hr urinary steroid profile. I don't think it's very great for showing actual levels of hormones, though it is good for detecting skewed ratios of certain hormones. It showed I had signs of a 5-alpha-reductase deficiency going by my ratio of tetrahydrocortisol to 5a-tetrahydrocortisol, while my DHT tests always came back looking good. It was under $200USD too, so it's a pretty decent value.

I see you have 23andMe results, which is amazing timing! Myself and another who is suffering sexual, depressive, and advanced-skin-aging symptoms after Accutane are both awaiting our results.

We are checking to see if we have certain types of some of the genes involved in methylation and B-vitamin metabolism linked to developing CFS, and also to see if we have one of the types of the retinoic acid receptor alpha (RARA) gene that has been linked to patients developing specific side effects from isotretinoin:

The effect of genetic polymorphisms of RARA gene on the adverse effects profile of isotretinoin-treated acne patients.

[Edited link out]

Quote

>RESULTS: Three-locus haplotype (Rs2715554 C/T - Rs4890109 G/T - Rs9303285 T/C) analysis showed that frequencies of CTG and TTG haplotypes are significantly associated with occurrence of arthralgia, myalgia, nose bleeds and headache in patients treated with isotretinoin. In addition, TCG haplotype was associated with nose bleeds and headache, whereas TTT haplotype was associated with arthralgia and myalgia. Furthermore, levels of AST were increased, and AST% change was more, after 1 month of treatment in patients with the TC genotype of rs2715554 polymorphism. Finally, allele T of rs9303285 was found to be protective against developing depression in the patients treated with isotretinoin.

TBH, I'm not sure exactly how to interpret raw genetic data, but can tell you what to look for:

There is an explanation of how to search through your genetic data here:

[Edited link out]

The rsids you would want to search for in your data are:

Rs2715554

Rs4890109

Rs9303285 (Unfortunately, this snp doesn't appear to be included in 23andMe's current test. This is a real let-down since it is correlated to susceptibility to depressive symptoms.)

I "think" each one of these numbers represents a specific snp (single nucleotide polymorphism) location in the RARA gene.

Reading through the "example" data on 23andMe it appears there are 2 different nucleotides given for each snp in an individual's raw data and they aren't necessarily always complements of each other, which complicates interpreting the data.

Here is a long-winded explanation of what we are looking for and why: ....

Having a specific base-pair of nucleotides (either A/T or C/G) at a specific position in the gene will lead to a specific amino acid being placed in a specific position in the RARA protein when it is being built from the RNA copy of the RARA DNA.

...This will lead to an RARA protein that is shaped a certain way and behaves a certain way according to the combinations of amino acids that comprise it.

Altering one amino acid in a protein (the RARA receptor protein, in this case) can sometimes have little effect, and sometimes cause drastic changes in the way the protein behaves.

We are looking at different combinations of 3 nucleotides in this case, and each nucleotide is one in a set of 3 that codes for an amino acid, although the nucleotides being looked at are not next to each other in the DNA sequence of the gene.

... as a matter of fact, there is a possibility that one or more of the nucleotides does not actually code for the RARA protein, but is in the promoter (controls transcription rate and under what conditions the gene is to be copied) region of the RARA gene, but let's ignore that for now.

.................Anyways, to the best of my knowledge, if you have one of the combinations of SNPs mentioned in the paragraph above, then that means isotretinoin will theoretically effect you in a certain way as described in that paragraph. I still can't tell you exactly how to read it, but if you could post the data here or at the ATM forum, it would be greatly appreciated.

So. Here are the methylation genes, followed by corresponding rs numbers of relevant snps contained within them:

COMT V158M rs4680

COMT H62H rs4633

COMT P199P rs769224

VDR Bsm rs1544410

VDR Taq rs731236

MAO A R297R rs6323

ACAT1-02 rs3741049

MTHFR C677T rs1801133

MTHFR 03 P39P rs2066470

MTHFR A1298C rs1801131

MTR A2756G rs1805087

MTRR A66G rs1801394

MTRR H595Y rs10380

MTRR K350A rs162036

MTRR R415T rs2287780

MTRR A664A rs1802059

BHMT-02 rs567754

BHMT-04 rs617219

BHMT-08 rs651852

AHCY-01 rs819147

AHCY-02 rs819134

AHCY-19 rs819171

CBS C699T rs234706

CBS A360A rs1801181

CBS N212N rs2298758

SHMT1 C1420T rs1979277

Sorry if part of my explanation about reading the data is incorrect, I'm new to this too.

Unfortunately I was not able to get most of those tests done when I went to the doctor because she said that she wanted to work on one issue at a time... I did get some done though, mostly related to thyroid.

In any case, I do have the results from 23andme and I have had them analyzed by Geneticgenie and Prometheus. I spent a long time on the Phoenixrising (CSF board) trying to understand the methylation and detox cycles, but I still don't have a handle on it. I could post my methylation and detox profiles here, but I do not want to, and it doesn't seem especially relevant if others here have not had them done. I might be able to PM them to you if you want to see them. I will search for the indicated SNPs. Here they are:

Rs2715554: AG

Rs4890109: GG

I'm not sure exactly what that means in relation to the study. The results from 23andme are not in the form of a 3 locus haplotype, but only the genotype. I'm not sure its possible to estimate the haplotype from this data, we may need more data.

i tried vitamin a recently prob at least 10 years after my one course of accutane. did this two different times. the first time i went for broke and took up to 50k iu at one point prob just for a week or so after slowly raising the dosage. then quit supplementing for quite some time. the second time i took a much more modest 15k iu a day for a couple of months.

both times at first i thought i was feeling and seeing positive effects but then later noticed very bad ones that slowly crept up.first you become mentally stimulated and get this rush with what might be a unnatural excitability like you feel really good and i fell smarter and more alive but then after you come down you almost feel nothingness and lose interest in things(kind of like manic depression). vitamin a effects facial flushing,something i have delt with since accutane for a long time( it puts color into your face) or maybe gives it redness. but either way sometimes my face looked younger and better and almost felt like i had less flushing while taking vitamin a. i thought my hair was looking better and when i got a hair cut i wouldnt see all the white bulbs at the end of my hair like i was used to seeing.

MY vision seemed better like it was a big difference i could see better without my contacts and at night, so much so it was shocking, and made me at the time think for sure i had a vitamin a deficiency.

now for the bad. i had no warning of some of these symptoms i just one day woke up and they were there.

while taking vitamin a i would get lower back pain. a joint that got so tender around my knee i could hardly touch it.

the mental excitability that i mentioned also led to irritability so much so that i was snapping at the owner of the company i work for. didnt notice it at the time but later on realized this wasnt me normally. my vision? well i developed eye floaters so bad i still have them a year later.

my skin? i one day woke up with many more wrinkles on my hands from the vitamin a, that havent gone away since.

vitamin also effected my hearing in my left ear, get static noise like tinnitus that hasnt gone away since.

given me reflux and throat issues so bad some times its hard to eat. and my lower neck would hurt just turning it.

my hair started to dry out and thinned so bad i was scared to get a hair cut and just wore a hat all the time.

taking vitamin a , there seemed to be positive effects (some placebo?) night vision being one of them along with a better mental state. but after awhile these negative ones that came about and have lingered seem to be text book vitamin a toxicity that to this day a year later after stopping the 15k iu i still have the eye floaters, and wrinkled hands,

so just a warning for those taking cod liver oil. or considering vitamin a supplement. maybe i was just taking too much at once. but i think im worse off then where i started.

my point is i didnt have much warning of these vitamin a side effects until it was too late. and the startling thing is after so many years post accutane to still have this kind of reaction to vitamin A .

and sorry if my typing was hard to follow just looking at how my thoughts came out right now seems so disorganized. i feel like i was smarter before accutane. maybe thats why i tend to hold on to so many things from my childhood as a place of happiness before i took this drug.

anonyy, I think people are still unclear on exactly what you did for your cure method. i think it would be interesting to know in the form of a day-to-day guide?

Day 1 = what you took, how much, what did you eat/drink etc

Day 2 =

Day 3.. .etc

I'm also of the belief the drug has mades to my hormone profile, rather than it is still in my body, but if your method has shown improvements for you then I'm interested.

I've just started doing intermittnet fasting (between approx 19:00 and 13:00), taking a multivitamin and choline 500mg. Plan to also add l-carnitine.

I already said exactly what i've done, multiple times, i don't know what i can add more, if you have a precise question i can answer it.

Personnaly i avoid those synthetic nutrient (from supplement), they are most of the time unusable by the body and they deplete the nutrient they are supposed to bring. The best natural supplement is vegetables/fruit juicing.

I truly don't mean to be rude, but stating your opinion as fact and claiming that diet alone can fix us lowers your credibility in the eyes of many, including me.

You said it yourself - we don't know how the drug works. So who can say that it hasn't caused epigenetic changes?

Think about it.

It as 100% nothing to do with genetic or epigenetic. It's about accutane who multiply x100 any weakness we had before by overwhelming an already tired and weak body. Changing diet (no meat, grains, dairy), no acidic food, regeneration of the intestine/colon and taking herbs to help the detoxination of the remaining toxins/acids/accutane is enough to heal ourselves. Epigenetic/genetic is a bad excuse we use when we don't know how the body or a drug work.

 

I truly don't mean to be rude, but stating your opinion as fact and claiming that diet alone can fix us lowers your credibility in the eyes of many, including me.

You said it yourself - we don't know how the drug works. So who can say that it hasn't caused epigenetic changes?

Think about it.

It as 100% nothing to do with genetic or epigenetic. It's about accutane who multiply x100 any weakness we had before by overwhelming an already tired and weak body. Changing diet (no meat, grains, dairy), no acidic food, regeneration of the intestine/colon and taking herbs to help the detoxination of the remaining toxins/acids/accutane is enough to heal ourselves. Epigenetic/genetic is a bad excuse we use when we don't know how the body or a drug work.

I never said you can fix it with diet alone. And i never said it doesnt do epigenetic change. I just said epigenetic change is the way the body react to his environment, it's natural and not permanent at all, so you don't have to look there to explain the long last effects.

But if you prefer to think that you have nothing to do about it, that the body isn't capable of healing himself and that you want to continue to eat opiate, processed and mucus + toxin forming food it's your choice. Just don't try to convince others of your lies. (said that for others too).

It's not even diet i'm talking about, its about stopping to add poisons everyday, mainly from diet but there are other sources.

I don't mean to take sides or get in the middle of this, but have any of you taken a genetics class?

Epigenetic change is simply a change based on environment, and it can have profound effects. That being said, it also means another environmental change can reverse it. Most of the time it's as simple as a methylation group inhibiting gene expression for a specific gene, meaning it only needs to be unmethylated to fix the problem. Epigenetics is basically the body's map of function, and if we could control it we'd fix a lot; however, science is obviously still young in this subject, as well as us not even knowing Accutane's full method of action.

Therefore, basically what we can do now is more or less what I/Joseph/anonny are saying: anti-inflammatory diet and probiotics etc for the gut/immune system.

Hope this helps.

 

I truly don't mean to be rude, but stating your opinion as fact and claiming that diet alone can fix us lowers your credibility in the eyes of many, including me.

You said it yourself - we don't know how the drug works. So who can say that it hasn't caused epigenetic changes?

Think about it.

It as 100% nothing to do with genetic or epigenetic. It's about accutane who multiply x100 any weakness we had before by overwhelming an already tired and weak body. Changing diet (no meat, grains, dairy), no acidic food, regeneration of the intestine/colon and taking herbs to help the detoxination of the remaining toxins/acids/accutane is enough to heal ourselves. Epigenetic/genetic is a bad excuse we use when we don't know how the body or a drug work.

I never said you can fix it with diet alone. And i never said it doesnt do epigenetic change. I just said epigenetic change is the way the body react to his environment, it's natural and not permanent at all, so you don't have to look there to explain the long last effects.
But if you prefer to think that you have nothing to do about it, that the body isn't capable of healing himself and that you want to continue to eat opiate, processed and mucus + toxin forming food it's your choice. Just don't try to convince others of your lies. (said that for others too).

It's not even diet that i'm talking about, its about stopping to add poisons who come from diet.

"If you think there's nothing left...reach inside and dig deeper. If you think there's nothing left...reach inside and dig deeper." -Stephen Murray, BMX rider, injured and sidelined 2007

"I was always sad because I had no shoes, until one day I saw a man with no legs."

Gotta Keep On Fighting

I totally agree with Annoy. It is clear that accutane stays in the body for a very long time 10-20 years or even more, it seems the more it stays in the body , more mineral and vitamin deficient it causes, also damage to the organs, cells and tissue . It's all about deficiency and toxicity , unfortunatelly it seems that most of us here had or still have those two problems that were caused by accutane.

The reason why I think some people take the drug and take longer or never get side effects are simply because their body detox organs such as the liver , pancreas , kidneys, skin etc were functioning better than the people who got the nasty side effects while taking accutane. You got keep in mind that accutane didn't do this alone, your body has to deal with thousands of toxins each day and remove it somehow from your system , such as Genetically modified organism, gluten, growth hormone ( dairy , meat ) ,fluoride, chlorine, aspartame, MSG, chemicals in tap water, chemicals and additives in your food, toxic vaccines with loads of mercury and aluminum in it and the list goes on and on .

Believe me guys. I spent a lot of time and money trying to find a cure, but the cure is within every single one of us. You just need to give your body time and don't do any harm to it ( every single pharmaceutical drugs does harm ) . Diet will help your body eliminate not only accutane but all the mucus, chemicals and heavy metals that you have consumed. First of, dairy and meat will clog you , even in small ammount, it will cause mucus and it will poison your body further . Gluten will do the same , and ruin your D.I tract, some grains also does damage .

It seems a bit extreme but the best healing program for accutane sufferes is a low fat raw vegan diet ( organic, fresh , natural fruits ,veggies some nuts and seeds ) and if you have the will power and motivation to do it a long water or juice fasting which will be a thousand times better than just the detox diet alone.

I came here to share this with you guys because I had the courage to change radically my lifestyle and heal myself. I used to live in Canada and I am now in the tropics , growing my own organic fruit and veggies. Accutane gave me some unbeliavable rough time but it has taught me so many great things . Hope you guys can heal all your problems soon..

cheers

anonyy. I think people are confused on what you mean by isotherapy. so you got another prescription to accutane? and took a certain dosage for a brief period of time? looking at your posts you said this.

So after tried everything, i can tell that isopathy is working. It's the best and only way, for sure. I've used this, isotretinoin doses: 1rst day: 30k, 3rd: 200k, 5th: XM, 7th: XMK. this is isotretinoin pills your taking? what does 30k 200k and especially xm and xmk mean? these do not sound like a unit of measure that im famiar with xm? xmk? does this stand for something else?

Quote

I totally agree with Annoy. It is clear that accutane stays in the body for a very long time 10-20 years or even more, it seems the more it stays in the body , more mineral and vitamin deficient it causes, also damage to the organs, cells and tissue . It's all about deficiency and toxicity , unfortunatelly it seems that most of us here had or still have those two problems that were caused by accutane.

Where is the evidence of this if it is so clear?

Where is the evidence of deficiency or toxicity you are so adamantly sure of?

Is this idea being rectally synthesized, or is there some iota of reason behind it?

Accutane isn't a heavy metal or asbestos.

Every bit of evidence points to the drug being cleared within several days:

(13-cis-retinoic acid is a.k.a. isotretinoin and Accutane)

[Edited link out]

Quote

The clinical pharmacology of http://www.ebi.ac.uk/chebi/searchId.do?chebiId=CHEBI%3A1536 7" rel="external nofollow">all-trans retinoic acid (RA) has distinct differences from that of its widely studied stereoisomer http://www.ebi.ac.uk/chebi/searchId.do?chebiId=CHEBI%3A606 7" rel="external nofollow">13-cis retinoic acid (cRA). RA is much more rapidly cleared from plasma following oral administration; their respective half-lives are < 1 h and 13 h

There's 168 hours in a week. This is around 13 13-hour half-lives. 1*0.5^13 leaves you with about One Ten-Thousandths of the peak concentration still left after one week.

Wanna err on the high side?.....

[Edited link out]

Quote

"Values for elimination half-life (t_1/2) of isotretinoin and its metabolite were 29 40 hours and 22 10 hours, respectively."

1*0.5^6 leaves you with only One Percent of peak concentration after a week.

Do you think this is all the more it takes to continue destroying your intestines, making your hair fall out, or making you too tired to get out of bed?

Well, ..........a very small concentration of 13-cis-retinoic (isotretinoin) is always present at low ambient levels as a bi-product of vitamin-A metabolism whether you took Accutane or not:

[Edited link out]

"13-cis-retinoic acid is an endogenous compound in human serum."

[Edited link out]

Quote

Our findings suggest that, in addition to all-trans-retinoic acid, 13-cis-retinoic acid and 13-cis-4-oxoretinoic acid are present in normal human plasma as metabolites of vitamin A.

If your health has improved after detoxing or liver cleansing, it was certainly not a result of removing Accutane from your body.

There must be several posters here with a broken internet who lack the resources to look up this information for themselves, but insist the drug being "stuck" inside of us as the only explanation for long-term effects.

Guitarman, just a friendly warning; Isotherapy is a homeopathic scam. Save your money and go on a little vacation or something instead. There's alternative medicine, and then there's snake oil. The line between the two often narrows, but this without a doubt, falls into the latter category.

Epigenetic mechanisms do respond to the environment, and can be reversed naturally by certain factors, but not always. This is an incorrect assumption to make.

Many seemingly irreversible diseases have been linked to known or unknown environmental triggers, and often there is a genetic predisposition.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19833297

Epigenetic mechanisms such as DNA methylation and modifications to histone proteins regulate high-order DNA structure and gene expression. Aberrant epigenetic mechanisms are involved in the development of many diseases, including cancer. The neurological disorder most intensely studied with regard to epigenetic changes is Rett syndrome; patients with Rett syndrome have neurodevelopmental defects associated with mutations in MeCP2, which encodes the methyl CpG binding protein 2, that binds to methylated DNA. Other mental retardation disorders are also linked to the disruption of genes involved in epigenetic mechanisms; such disorders include alpha thalassaemia/mental retardation X-linked syndrome, Rubinstein-Taybi syndrome, and Coffin-Lowry syndrome. Moreover, aberrant DNA methylation and histone modification profiles of discrete DNA sequences, and those at a genome-wide level, have just begun to be described for neurodegenerative disorders such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, and Huntington's disease, and in other neurological disorders such as multiple sclerosis, epilepsy, and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis.

Take PTSD and schizophrenia into consideration also, as these are known have epigenetic components and can be triggered into adulthood.

Additionally, cellular differentiation is largely controlled by DNA methylation and DNA methylation is somewhat controlled by cellular differentiation. Environmental factors only go so far into explaining it. Certain cell types are programmed to have specific genes turned on or off, which actually determines how they function. From my understanding, this would be difficult to reverse if Accutane affected this system, but not necessarily impossible.

Something I find very interesting is the few recoveries resulting from water fasting. It has been shown in vitro, that if a cell is starved for long enough, it will begin shedding epigenetic tags and makes its way back towards pluripotency. I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the fasting recoveries since it would be difficult to accomplish the level of "starvation" as in the in-vitro experiments while still living, but it is something to think about.

I have completed a 7 day water fast, and a couple other sufferers have gone 21 and 28 days without remission of symptoms, so it is not a sure thing.

I have a friend of a friend who was left with ulcerative colitis, severe headaches, and arthritic symptoms that began shortly after a course of Accutane in high-school. She eats organic, makes a living from organic farming, and basically lives organic, but still suffers severe side effects. ...It only helps so much. I will try to get her on this board if I get a chance to speak with her again soon.

The sad fact of the matter is we really don't have a good understanding of what this drug did to us, leaving us with very little choice at the moment besides trying to live healthy and "poking and hoping" with different therapies, whether natural or pharmaceutical.

If accutane and other toxins are expelled, if the body return to a good state, those "epigenetic" change will be no more, the body will readapt itself. It's just that the body can't deal with all things at the same times. Epigenetic is a really bad excuse, i'm convinced of that, at least saying that it's permanent. If it was permanent, my neurological symptoms will be still here, but they are gone.

And epigenetic about accutane is just a theory, i don't even think that it can cause modification. I think accutane directly block some gene expression in certain part of the body but it's limited and doesn't do any modification. It affect the gene expression system in itself, not the mechanism who make a real modification or not (my opinion). If he was doing change, our body within 2 years will be completely malformated like babys who born after accutane, all trans retinoic acid regulate too much genes, if it was doing modification, we will be simply dead.

Isotherapy is homeopathy but with the exact same molecule who caused the problems. You can't do it yourself it's too dangerous.. ask an homeopathic lab. There is 1 or 2 who can do it in europe, don't know for usa.

 

Again, epigenetics, strictly defined, is about heritable changes in gene expression. What is being described here is any change in gene expression that can be induced by outside influences. They are not the same. Again, epigenetic changes are long term changes that are potentially heritable, and, as I pointed out above, most epigenetic changes are not passed on to offspring, certainly not to the point that they have a detectable effect on evolution. The rest is gene regulation, which is often transient but, depending on the process, can continue long term for as long as the stimulus causing the change in regulation is present. As is frequently pointed out, the quickest way to get an organ to start to return to normal is to stop doing the bad things to it that were causing it dysfunction in the first place. As P.Z. Myers put it:

In part, the root of the problem here is that were falling into an artificial dichotomy, that there is the gene as an enumerable, distinct character that can be plucked out and mapped as a fixed sequence of bits in a computer database, and there are all these messy cellular processes that affect what the gene does in the cell, and we try too hard to categorize these as separate. Its a lot like the nature-nurture controversy, where the real problem is that biology doesnt fall into these simple conceptual pigeonholes and we strain too hard to distinguish the indistinguishable. Grok the whole, people! You are the product of genes and cellular and environmental interactions.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/02/11/epigenetics-you-keep-using-that-word-i-do-not-think-it-means-what-you-think-it-means/

On LDN for month 1.5, doing even better on 4.5mg. sleeping like a baby, no joint pain, no anxiety, no mucus, moist eyes, moist nose, better moisture in face. still have dry skin though, especially hands. Everywhere else, I'm a happy camper. The amount of pain I was experiencing got me hospitalized into a psych ward and guess what, they thought I was a hypochondriac and found NOTHING wrong. I strongly believe I personally suffer from an allergic/autoimmune response and my body is just attacking it self. I don't know how the DHT inhibition plays into that, and why it seems so permanent, but I am still sensitive to that. I strongly believe that diet can help, but i'm not bought into the cure piece yet...i havn't tried it for long enough though. high stress jobs demand energy and i am having trouble finding a new lower stress one...so for now...it's LDN since I can live a normal life finally. No negative side effects besides occasional constipation but now I take a massive amount of probiotics since my testing showed ZERO beneficial flora...that will wreak havoc on the body and cause something autoimmune from my limited understanding, I also take magnesium glycinate for bowel movements, D3 since I was on the low end, and biotin which I am not bought in that biotin works for hair loss...I do think diet can help that. We shall see. I've been trying to get this squared away for 9 years. my sides hit most severely 7 years later, and i think chronic stress was a major trigger for it. I don't know if I believe A is still in my body, but i do think due to the chronic cellular dehydration, there is some buildup of SOMETHING that prevents my body from cleaning or healing itself. what that something is i don't know...

http://www.medicalinsider.com/toxicity1.html

very informative website on the liver and detoxifying it based on phase 1 and phase 2 and Glucuronidation

talks about how important cysteine is for sulfur and Glutathione production, that is essential for liver detox. and to help expel fat soluable toxins including retinoids through glucuronidation which can be benifited by supplementing artichoke, calcium d glucarate and Kombucha(this article stating that artichoke is a much better source of Glucuronic Acid. goes into great detail covering a whole range of topics related to what many are dealing with from accutane. just one quote :

Inefficient liver functioning (and chiefly low Glutathione production, rapid Glutathione depletion and poor Glucuronidation) can lead to 'metabolic poisoning', i.e. the build up of metabolites within the cells, tissues and organs of the body that have not been processed by the liver and excreted. Quoted from ARL Pathology's Web Site (see the pdf for the full article and related diagrams):

there are some references in this article and some of this info is known to be based on fact. and some is probably just based on theories.

Is anyone reading this forum who suffers from sexual dysfunction due to Accutane recovered or shown improvements?

I was one of those unfortunate people. I say "was" because I eventually recovered sexual function & libido returned too.

I must have tried a million things, spent thousands of dollars, seen doctors who shrugged their shoulders at me, also tried fasting & switching to organic, expensive supplements, etc. etc. etc. But anyone reading this needs to refer to December 2012 of this incredibly long forum. Someone named AccutaneIsPoison posted his remedy - I tried his proposed remedy for about for 5 months, and improvements came slowly. Also a great remedy for anyone suffering from depression (which isotretinoin can cause to the point of suicide). Today, I'm able to have sex with my wife without use of viagra, cialis or any of that other crap. Post accutane - I was quite dead and had no interest in sex at all.

Anyone interested go back to Nov/Dec 2012 posts and read the posts by AccutaneIsPoision and the research he provided on this forumj - this is real medicine and should be taken seriously.

Is anyone reading this forum who suffers from sexual dysfunction due to Accutane recovered or shown improvements?

I was one of those unfortunate people. I say "was" because I eventually recovered sexual function & libido returned too.

I must have tried a million things, spent thousands of dollars, seen doctors who shrugged their shoulders at me, also tried fasting & switching to organic, expensive supplements, etc. etc. etc. But anyone reading this needs to refer to December 2012 of this incredibly long forum. Someone named AccutaneIsPoison posted his remedy - I tried his proposed remedy for about for 5 months, and improvements came slowly. Also a great remedy for anyone suffering from depression (which isotretinoin can cause to the point of suicide). Today, I'm able to have sex with my wife without use of viagra, cialis or any of that other crap. Post accutane - I was quite dead and had no interest in sex at all.

Anyone interested go back to Nov/Dec 2012 posts and read the posts by AccutaneIsPoision and the research he provided on this forumj - this is real medicine and should be taken seriously.

I couldn't find his posts, but I did see people quoting him. Maybe he erased the posts? If the proposed treatment is cannabis oil, I'm very skeptical, but I would be willing to try anything reasonable at this point. Also, I'm in a state where cannabis is effectively legal and I might very well be able to get the oil pretty easily.