I only had the odd bump gracie, most of it was just itching like you describe. The itching and burning is from the infiltration of t cells (immune system cells) which are attacking the hair follicle. Gracie i can promise you now you will never get to the stage like some men do with completel baldness. The emu oil completely relieves me of the itching.

Right im going to paste a copy of an email i have from Dr Chu, bare in mind he has prescribed accutane more than probably any other derm and for a longer period of time, he knows he shit on every subject.

In the email we are disscussing the diagnosis of my hairloss.

My email...

Dr Chu,

My name is Mark Evans and i am one of your patients. If you don't remember i am the patient that has had random scars forming on the face. I have a diffuse hairloss on the body (very mild) and also diffusely on the head (more severe). I also have 'rosacea' and oral mouth ulcers.

I remmeber disscussing with you the chances of me having some sort of immune dissorder. After many hours of research i am convinced my immune system has been altered in some way. You also told me that hairloss on other parts of the body is indicative of Telogen Effluvium, but we both know hairloss on other hair bareing areas is indicative of alopecia areata (i understand why you told me otherwise as there isn't much you can do to help when it involves hair on the body, especially when undergoing dermaroller).

My question for you is what treatements do you normally use for diffuse alopecia areata? I have been using a topical 0.1% betamethasone soloution with limited success (it has decreased the shedding some and stopped the burning sensation). I know intradermal kenalog injections are the best option.

However if you would take a moment to read the following link ( https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bitstream/1807/3835/1/dv04121.pdf ),

i would like your opinoin on it as a treatment option, you may of heard or even used it yourself. It is known as the oral mini pulse (OMP) and is a way of administrating oral steroids whilst avoid/minimising side effects. I am at the point where i need to see some sort of improvement as i feel as if i am slowly but surely deteriorating in every aspect in terms of my rosacea (i believe is related to my immune system), hair and even my skin texture as every time i have a major flush i seem to get more indents form in my face.

I am at such a point now where i am willing to try anything. As you will see though this treatment option is normally side effect free and there has to date been no irreversable side effects.

Kind regards,

Mark Evans

His response

Dear Mark

Many thanks for your message. The diagnosis of diffuise alopecia areata is a difficult one and my feeling when I saw you was that it was more likely to be telagen hair loss. The use of low dose steroids in alopecia areata is well known but generally , if there is a response with regrowth of hair, it rapidly falls when the drug is stopped, and you cannot continue with oral steroids for too long. Steroid injections I gave up many years ago as you can get very disfiguring scarring as a result.

PUVA therapy, a form of sunlight therapy can help and is something i often use in alopecia totalis.

Alopecia areata is an autoimmune disease so the immune system is not overactive but is reacting to the wrong thing ie your hair

Do you want to come and see me so we can re-evaluate your hair and decide on treatment

Tony Chu

I don't feel he had a chance to fully look into the article i gave him, after all he is a very busy man. But as you can see he has experience in treating it and i am going to convince him to try me on the oral mini pulse with steroids, possibly at the same time as the PUVA therapy. I will overcome this bullshit though i don't care what people such as ithappens says....

Thanks for sending Mark. Keep your fingers crossed about the balding for me. I have lost 40% of my hair, haven't worn it down since June and had to buy extensions to even keep it up in a ponytail (because it's so thin).

I'm wondering also if Jade ever checks these boards anymore - Jade - if so, let me know what ever happened with you and the B12 issue and the shedding (From Toppix/Hairsite).

Gracie i can promise you now, i have read so many boards and posts on hairloss, I have disscussed it at long length with many derms and have research like crazy. i haven't found one where a woman loses her hair permanently. The reason for that is the immunosupressive effects of estrogen. IF you have prolonged problems with it, you (being female) have the option of spironolactone. Which will further aid your recovery.

Gracie what was your dosage of accutane and how long did you take it for?

Gracie i can promise you now, i have read so many boards and posts on hairloss, I have disscussed it at long length with many derms and have research like crazy. i haven't found one where a woman loses her hair permanently.

Unfortuantly Lamarr, i have come accross many females that have suffered tane hair loss permanently. I've been reading the discussion boards and other resources since 2002. Here is one i just came accross today.

http://www.baldingblog.com/2006/06/21/accu...s-is-permanent/

scroll down to comment number 7 by Alexis

The old hairsite forums (which seem very hard to access now) also had countless long term female sufferers.

Fair enough julius, it's just on forums such as the accutane action forum, even when women loose hair for years, it always seems to recover in the end!!

P.s. make sure you are applying the topical steroid across your entire scalp julius, also do you get any itching in your scalp? or did you when this began?

Mikey - I was on it for ONLY 6 WEEKS!!! My dosage was 40mg for 5 weeks and 60mg for 1 week (I'm 127 lbs) (that's when I noticed the hair shedding and freaked out and quit) and now have been shedding for 8 months.

Strange thing is, i took Accutane 4 years ago (the whole six months) with NO problems. So maybe this time, my body reacted differently b/c I'm older (31) or b/c I took a generic form, or my dosage was too high.

I ended up taking it again (although my acne was not severe at all), but because it worked so well before. Stupid me looking for an easy solution.

Yea gracie you took too mcuh of it, also the rapid change in amout of accutane plays a big roll, its better to keep a consistant dosage(a low one is best). Since you took 60mg, you gonna have to give it about 3 or 4 more months and it'll get better, mine did and im a guy, girls do have better chance at recovery. Also try no to use harsh shampoos, use baby shampoos once or twice a week. I used johnson and johnson shampoo and it helped alot didnt shed as much and my hair is doing alot better. Still needs more time to recovery fully. try to keep accutane dosage 10mg or at most 20mg a day or every other day. this will reduce the sideeffects and since its not sever help with the skin(if its severe acne then a low dose like that im not sure how effect it would be). I would just suggest using a ACNE lamp. I like this one "Verilux ClearWave Deluxe Acne Light" its great for acne. and no sideeffects. Reduces inflimation. Im going to go out on a limb here and say that maybe the light lamp would help with accutane hairloss, because of its rejuvinating effects and anti-inflamitory effects on the skin and it goes deep into the skin. Im not sure how effective this is, but i will try it as soon as I get that lamp, next week.

Lamar you seem very lost and all on here still consulting with derms and such for your accutane situation and this dr. chu guy etc etc. I'm not going to sugar coat it for you, and have talked to a few expert doctors and more so medical researchers about accutane and it's side effects who I can say for sure are much more qualified and knowledgeable than any derm out there. So you can take what I say with a grain of salt or you can choose to listen because while I can't help you out directly with your situation I can offer you some direction. First off, stop consulting with derms and such wasting your time, they don't know much about the drug and it's side effects. Yes that's right dermatologists for the most part are a complete waste of time and have no clue on how the body functions as a whole. Sorry to say this but it is very much true, so stop wasting your time and putting in all your hope and prayers with the so called expert dermatologists. Second in terms of the hair loss topical steroids won't work directly to stop it. They may slightly help the situation, but by no means are a cure at all. You have to look at the type of hair loss it is and how it relates to other types of hair loss that occur with other medical conditions. In terms of the dry texture, the change to thin, curly, and wispy and the easy ability to fall out they all relate to other medical conditions. Accutane has caused an immune system response of inflammation on certain parts of the body, be it lupus, which it could be. However, the hair loss may not be the direct result of the immune system attacking the hair follicle and could very well be a thyroid issue. Medical Researcher from Brown University told me 13-cisc suppresses thyroid function and very likely could be the cause. Now you've had tests Lamar etc etc that I'm sure your doctors said were within "normal" ranges but the bottom line is most doctors do not know how to properly diagnose a thyroid and adrenal condition which I can chalk up is most likely the cause for a lot of your mental and physical sides. However that being said while getting on thyroid and adrenal hormone could improve the situation it still won't guarantee the hair to come back. There could also very well be a Celiac condition as well which I don't doubt as my hair loss can vary on how much gluten I eat, and talking t doctors. As for your rosacea condition that's because the drug has dried out your sebaceous glands and killed off your melanocytes along with it. There's a way to fix that but i dont feel like going into it because I don't feel like writing anymore for one, and two you are the be all and end all expert on accutane and its sides.

also just for the record acne or more so late teenage acne that is persistent into adulthood is caused by a glandular disfunction, thyroid adrenal etc etc. so going back on accutane isnt the right move. I can be of more guidance but i will later cause im hungry and want to eat lunch.

ithappens said:

Lamar you seem very lost and all on here still consulting with derms and such for your accutane situation and this dr. chu guy etc etc. I'm not going to sugar coat it for you, and have talked to a few expert doctors and more so medical researchers about accutane and it's side effects who I can say for sure are much more qualified and knowledgeable than any derm out there. So you can take what I say with a grain of salt or you can choose to listen because while I can't help you out directly with your situation I can offer you some direction. First off, stop consulting with derms and such wasting your time, they don't know much about the drug and it's side effects. Yes that's right dermatologists for the most part are a complete waste of time and have no clue on how the body functions as a whole. Sorry to say this but it is very much true, so stop wasting your time and putting in all your hope and prayers with the so called expert dermatologists. Second in terms of the hair loss topical steroids won't work directly to stop it. They may slightly help the situation, but by no means are a cure at all. You have to look at the type of hair loss it is and how it relates to other types of hair loss that occur with other medical conditions. In terms of the dry texture, the change to thin, curly, and wispy and the easy ability to fall out they all relate to other medical conditions. Accutane has caused an immune system response of inflammation on certain parts of the body, be it lupus, which it could be. However, the hair loss may not be the direct result of the immune system attacking the hair follicle and could very well be a thyroid issue. Medical Researcher from Brown University told me 13-cisc suppresses thyroid function and very likely could be the cause. Now you've had tests Lamar etc etc that I'm sure your doctors said were within "normal" ranges but the bottom line is most doctors do not know how to properly diagnose a thyroid and adrenal condition which I can chalk up is most likely the cause for a lot of your mental and physical sides. However that being said while getting on thyroid and adrenal hormone could improve the situation it still won't guarantee the hair to come back. There could also very well be a Celiac condition as well which I don't doubt as my hair loss can vary on how much gluten I eat, and talking t doctors. As for your rosacea condition that's because the drug has dried out your sebaceous glands and killed off your melanocytes along with it. There's a way to fix that but i dont feel like going into it because I don't feel like writing anymore for one, and two you are the be all and end all expert on accutane and its sides.

I know what is wrong with my hair/body, the 'rosacea' is also caused by the immune system, but in this case my cappilaries are being attacked (have had a biopsy from just under by side burns). Go look up who Dr Chu is. He is nothing like other dermatologists. Far more qualified on accutane than anyone you have spoken to, he isn't only a dermatologist.... Like i said though you think what you like my friend, i only ever try to help people, i'm temped to stop posting here because of the response from yourself. My thyroid/adrenal function is fine, i sleep like a baby, gain muscle very easily my hair (what i have left of it) is very healthy, my problems are isolated to the skin, much like SLE. My immune system isn't overactive, just attacking the wrong things.

I'm out unless someone directs me a question from now on, the people who i talk to through pm i will still reply to.

Good luck ithappens...

guys, heres the reality of it. most of you if not all of you who have been losing hair for an extended period of time have male pattern baldness. yes, accutane will very well cause TE, but TE is always reversible. what may have happened is that accutane jump started your mpb. why, how, i dont know and neither does anybody else. no one even knows how exactly accutane works to cure acne. i had very slight signs of mpb before going on accutane, four months into it my hair curled and then eventually went to shit....shed for roughly eight to nine months, hair took a major beating. so instead of dickin around with derms and posting on these boards ten times a day...i did myself a favor and purchased minoxidil. its only $50 for a four months supply. just over $10 a month. for those of you who continue to experience major hair loss, youre crazy if you dont get on this stuff. im almost three months into it and have somehow grown a new frickin hair line. my hairs filled back in dramatically in just three short months. best results should be experienced around the one year mark. so my advice would be instead of going crazy over it, do something about it. ithappens, youre a little girl....guess what guy? youre going bald. im gonna try to post a before pic, and ill pop back on tomorrow and post a pic of where i am now. look at how diffuse the loss is! that happened within a 8 month window, pretty intense. it'd be kinda hard to tell but my hair was wispy and lifeless as well. k, cya

[Edited image out]orrow and post an after pic.

alright, heres two pics that i just took a minute ago. remember, this is after just under 3 months on minoxidil. i also use nizoral shampoo. my hairs nearly back to where it used to be before i started shedding off accutane. id actually like to hear your replies. thanks

[Edited link out]

thats pretty impressive. i really hope to get the same results with it.

Good thing you got your hair back, but I also understand that minoxidil is a temporary solution and hair will begin to shed once you stop using it.

yeah well if the minox jump started my te regrowth then i probably wont lose out on much if i decided to quit taking it. cause seriously, the loss you see in the before picture happened within months. and i really think this is whats happening to most, fast progressing diffuse thinning lasting for a prolonged period of time...nothing like what we would normally think of as normal te (well as far as length goes). im staying on the minox. its good for your hair and as easy as brushing your teeth everyday.

I agree with you gdwright, Those really prolonged cases are because an underlying MPB. BUT one can not say it's MPB just after 1 year. IT all depends on how long and how strong was the dosage of Accutane. Obviously a dosage of only 10mg is not going to cause side-effects to a person for a long time, and taking 80MG will it all depends how well your body is at recovering from the side effects. It doesn't hurt to go on Rogaine considering is not so expensive for many months worth and you can use it until your hair is back to normal on its own it if it ever does happen. After of a year on Rogaine or any minox, you should stop for a month or two, to see if you never had mpb, if it falls out again its most likely mpb if it doesnt then you are back to normal. I didn't go on anything i was on 80MG which is high for my body weight. it's been around 1 year since my initial course of 5 months 80mg, whcih ended august 06(i started hairloss since august, but not alot alot, in january of 07 i took 1 month of 60mg, because i was relapsing and getting acne again so I went on it for 1 month after that month my hair started to fallout more and more, only like 2 or 3 weeks ago is that i got acne again and my hair is coming back to normal(im oily all over again). I was tempted to go on rogaine but was scared as it says on da box of rogaine that your hair will fall out once you stop it and will shed at the begining i couldnt afford sheeding so i was like FUCK IT and just waited it out and now im on my way back to normal. So take MINOX guys it won't hurt. I don't guarantee everyone hair will grow back because i believe accutane causes the auto immune response to attack hair and da sebeacuous glands which with little glands your hair will thin and fall out because your hair needs this essential oil. I don't think its all this overly complicated theories. I see it like this, accutane causes the glands to get smaller thats why our faces isnt as oil after tane and less oil means thinner hair and the curliness of the hair is due to over dose of protein and/or vitamin which accutane is. Try to take a 1 a day vitamin that has no vitamin A, take it 2 times a day your hair will become really curly and fuse together i know because i did this once. for 1 week i took multivitamin that didnt have vit a(that was meant to be taken 1 time a day i took it 2t times )and it fucked up my hair didnt fall out but made it way more curly and they fused together in a lot of parts and i had clumps of hair. This isnt that complicated. It all comes down if and when your sebeacous glands go back to normal. This is what I see happen and experience.

Also 1 more thing. IF your hairloss is in one spot of your hair it is most likely MPB. I didnt have this i had thinning all over my head. The back of my head was just as thin as the front i didnt really recede in hair line so It isnt mpb. It was just lack of oil, This is almost fact because my oil is almost back to noraml(my face is oily and hair is oily to), and my hair is regrowing fast and getting thick and you cant see my scalp anymore. This is why i didnt want to go on rogaine cause i knew i didnt have mpb because my hairloss is diffused i lost exactly the same on amout throught the head. Like you said GD your hair did look like underlying mpb because you seem to be losing your hair on the top of the head most alot more than the sides and that is tipical mpb, good thing you knew how to take action and went on rogaine.

hey mikey....good points. i went to a civilian doctor about five months ago (im in the navy, and navy doctors for the most part are worthless). he said i was thin in my donor areas as well, sides, back, etc. so yeah i do believe i have the mpb gene, but the extreme diffuse thinning i experienced and the curling of the hair, etc...i contribute directly to a very intense prolonged case of TE associated with accutane. for those who havent seen my before and after pics, here they are again. theres a light at the end of the road.

before:

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and after:

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GD. im glad you got your hair back. What a big difference, and this was only in a matter of months not bad at all. You can maintain this for as long as you can, at the end of the road if you get tired of rogaine, you can do a hair restoration because you have alot of hair on da sides so you can be set. its good to know your back to normal just like i am. most of you guys will get better just give it time and try to not pull the hair you have out, by using harsh shampoos and extreme chemicals, treat your hair soft because it is weak. If im correct and it is because of the oil that is missing and the inflamed folicles from the imune system then try to find an anti inflamitory medicine to help, im not sure of what can help, i mean im going to give that acne lamp a try next week, i will def let you guys know what happens with da lamp cause i have some inflamation on my head lets see if it goes away.

Does recovery generally occur? I've been off for a little under three months and would really like to know if the shedding does generally ever stop and if the hair does recover. I was on the medicine for exactly two and a half months.

gdwright said:

hey mikey....good points. i went to a civilian doctor about five months ago (im in the navy, and navy doctors for the most part are worthless). he said i was thin in my donor areas as well, sides, back, etc. so yeah i do believe i have the mpb gene, but the extreme diffuse thinning i experienced and the curling of the hair, etc...i contribute directly to a very intense prolonged case of TE associated with accutane. for those who havent seen my before and after pics, here they are again. theres a light at the end of the road.

before:

[Edited link out]

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and after:

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that's crazy...how long had you shedding when those before pictures were taken?

when i took those before pics, i had been shedding hard for eight to nine months. when i was on deployment from may to sept....i lost like 35 lbs in four months cause its so damn hot on those ships and youre too stressed to eat. i think that may have contributed to my shedding, bad diet i guess/not eating. but yeah it was getting really bad. and stripedsocks...from my understanding te should last roughly a month to three months, depending on how much of a shock your body has endured. shock as in all the factors that have been proven to result in some form of te. the problem many accutane users run into, is that their own experience with te lasts much much longer for no apparent reason.

So everyone should be using Rogaine?

Is your shedding all over the head or in a specific spot and what was your dosage for accutane? Since you took it for such a short time you should be fine. Did you have or noticed some sign of hairloss or hair thinning before going on accutane? your first might want to figure out if you need rogaine because there is an initial shed with rogaine so it can make your situation worse by making hair fallout and not being able to work since accutane messed up the hair follicle.