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thank lamarr i will check in to this ..also my hair is returning to normal which is great, but im getting some pimples on my chin and cheeks. If it gets worse i was thinking of getting back on tane but only like 10mg, since before i was on 80mg. maybe i wont loose hair in such small dose. I will give the lamp a try if it doesnt work then tane it iwll be causei hate pimples too much.
Yeah it didn't completely cured me, but who is to say that it wouldn't be more efficious after a round of accutane...
Heres a link to the reason why i believe men seem to suffer from this prolonged hairsloss more than women. Remember i believe prolonged cases are the auto immune condition Diffuse Alopecea areata...
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/...91007083730.htm
_mikey_ said:[Edited link out]A few people have said that it has contributed to their hairloss much like accutane.
Also Lamarr, it didn't really help alot? since you eventually tried accutane?
I'm not saying it can't cause hairloss, i just believe that in most cases it will be via a different form of hairloss and so your just as likely to have hairloss from retin-a or differin as anyone else, and that is very rare.
This guy has come pretty close to the reason for accutane hairloss. I believe this process is the initiating trigger for accutane hairloss.
"Here's the reason we lose our hair guys. THIS IS THE REASON. No more wondering.
Department of Dermatology, University Hospital Hamburg-Eppendorf, University of Hamburg, Hamburg, Germany.
Diffuse hair loss ranks among the most frequent and psychologically most distressing adverse effects of systemic therapy with retinoids, which severely limits their therapeutic use even where clinically desired. Since the underlying mechanisms of retinoid-induced effluvium are as yet unknown, we have investigated the influence of the prototypic retinoid all-trans retinoic acid (ATRA, tretinoin) on the growth of human scalp hair follicles (HF) in culture. HF in the anagen VI stage of the hair cycle were cultured in the presence of 10(-8) or 10(-10) M ATRA. Compared with controls, hair shaft elongation declined significantly already after 2 d in the ATRA-treated group, and approximately 80% of the ATRA-treated HF had prematurely entered catagen-like stage at day 6, compared with 30% in the control group. This corresponded to an upregulation of apoptotic and a downregulation of Ki67-positive cells in ATRA-treated HF. Since transforming growth factor (TGF)-beta has been implicated as a key inducer of catagen, we next studied whether ATRA treatment had any effect on follicular expression. TGF-beta2 immunoreactivity was detected in the outer root sheath of anagen VI scalp HF. In catagen follicles, TGF-beta2 was also expressed in the regressing epithelial strand. After 4 d of ATRA treatment, TGF-beta2 was significantly upregulated in anagen HF in the dermal papilla (DP) and the dermal sheath, 7, and TGF-beta neutralizing antibody partially abrogated at RA induced hair growth inhibition. Real-time PCR confirmed a significant upregulation of TGF-beta2 transcripts in ATRA-treated hair bulbs. This study is the first to provide direct evidence that ATRA can indeed induce a catagen-like stage in human HF and suggests that this occurs, at least in part, via upregulation of TGF-beta2 in the DP. Therefore, topical TGF-beta2/TGF-beta receptor II antagonists deserve to be explored for the prevention and management of retinoid-induced hair loss.
I am looking into what TGF Beta 2 antagonists are out there naturally or medicinally. I am hopeful to spur this topic and get some help researching. Ryan
Ryan Raymond
Palm Coast, FL Reply A
|Report Abuse |#78 Jul 13, 2007
TOPIC
TGF-BETA
Transforming Growth Factor - Beta
Recent studies explore the effect of Transforming Growth Factor - Beta and hair growth. According to the studies, "elongation of hair was significantly suppressed by transforming growth factor-beta2. Next, a neutralizing antibody and fetuin, a potent transforming growth factor-beta antagonist was tested. In the presence of the antibody as well as fetuin, hair follicles were markedly elongated in a concentration-dependent manner. These results strongly suggest that transforming growth factor-beta2 plays an essential part in the induction of the catagen phase of the human hair cycle."
Ryan Raymond
Palm Coast, FL Reply A
|Report Abuse |#79 Jul 13, 2007
This is QUOTED from another forum....
Disclaimer-This report uses the work of Waseda and Frizz/5001Matt and others.I have come across some stuff myself and added my own thoughts and intuition.I am not claiming that this approach to hair loss was pioneered by me.I am least five years behind these guys in this area.
After completing extensive research into Nitric Oxide and Angiogenesis I then turned to study Inflammation.Here is my report.
A few years ago some people in the hair loss field turned their attention to inflammation.They realised that inflammation and auto immune disorders were implicated in hair loss.
When we are talking about the Immune System we must discuss Cytokines.
What are Cytokines?
Cytokines are proteins that are made by cells of the immune system.They regulate the Immune system responses.There are hundreds of them but we are only concerned with those that are pro inflammatory.
Some of the best known of these are as follows.
TGF Beta-1
TNF-alpha
Protein Kinase C
Nuclear Factor Kappa B
Interleukin 1 and 6.
There are many more but these are the ones that we most want to control.
TGF Beta 1 is particularly linked to hair loss.It was proved that as hair cells come out of Anagen the levels of TGF Beta-1 rises.This demonstrates that TGF Beta 1 signals the hair cells to stop growing when it reaches certain levels.
TGF Beta 1 and 2 have been consistently linked with hair loss.
Disease such as Arthritis,Lupus and Chronic Fatigue syndrome have been linked as Auto Immune diseases.Over production of Inflammatory cytokines has been linked to them all.
The desired state that we want is the down regulation of inflammatory cytokines such as TGF Beta 1 and TNF-alpha.
The theory put forward by Waseda was that inflammatory cytokines cause the activation of Caspase C which causes hair cell apoptosis or death to use a simpler word.Caspase C is heavily linked with cell apoptosis.Basically we dont want this apoptosis we want hair cell proliferation."
thank you for letting us know about this. My hair is returning to normal its getting pretty thick, im pretty much over this hairloss ordeal, my acne is returning also. What if i went on another few months of accutane but 10mg would it still be this bad? I was on 80mg my last time. Im just wondering because i kinda want to go back on it but a very low dose this time to try to stay clear of the side effects.
Mikey- How long did you shed for? Are you not shedding an abnormal amount at all anymore?
Lamarr- I don't really even understand the most of that long post that you posted. If that is really is the cause, is it likely reversible?
I am still shedding, about 8.5 months now. My hair is still thick, but I'm afraid it won't hold out if this shedding persists for a long time.
It will be over soon guys, this crap is reversible. Im about 10 or 11 months and i just noticed the regrowth a couple of weeks ago, and my acne started coming back so Its going back to normal. Im still shedding a bit but the regrowth is overpowering the shed so its ok. Just give it time. I havent taken any vitamins or anything only biotin for amonth a while back it didnt do crap, i suggest is work out it helps with inflamation and get ALOT of water. also try to kick start your glands to produce more oil because, lack of oil is a big cause for the hair loss(my hair is gettin better and my acne is returning im geting more oily) its not a coincidence. try some omega complex. I have this one called "Members mark omega complex"(it has fish oil,flaxseed oil, and sunflower oil). its pretty cheap 10$ for a 240pill bottle.
It will be over soon guys, this crap is reversible. Im about 10 or 11 months and i just noticed the regrowth a couple of weeks ago, and my acne started coming back so Its going back to normal. Im still shedding a bit but the regrowth is overpowering the shed so its ok. Just give it time. I havent taken any vitamins or anything only biotin for amonth a while back it didnt do crap, i suggest is work out it helps with inflamation and get ALOT of water. also try to kick start your glands to produce more oil because, lack of oil is a big cause for the hair loss(my hair is gettin better and my acne is returning im geting more oily) its not a coincidence. try some omega complex. I have this one called "Members mark omega complex"(it has fish oil,flaxseed oil, and sunflower oil). its pretty cheap 10$ for a 240pill bottle.
well guess what mikey i'm over a year and a half since accutane and my hair loss has not improved at all, no regrowth still falling out a lot. It doesnt shed as much anymore but i attriubute that to only the fact that there is less hair to shed now. I've lost 60% of my hair since accutane, more so the texture is awful just a curly mess. I have a bald patch on the back crown area, and a diffuse patch forming in the front vertex area. There is no history of MPB in my family. I am looking into getting some sort of hair piece in the coming months as my hair is very paper thin and it is seemingly permanent.