Sex and TV dinners. These are the best kind of threads!

But seriously, I do agree that the science is not fully developed and clear when it comes to treating, as well as understanding, acne, and the human body in general. We're always learning new things; 10 years from now, we'll look back on the sources we cited as underdeveloped, and perhaps outright wrong.

Still, there's good enough scientific evidence that says it's more than just bacteria on our skin. A variety of factors have been reported to affect certain peoples acne. There are correlations everywhere. There a a variety if complex interrelated mechanisms constantly at work.

Most of us who tried diet/lifestyle changes were out our wits end, and probably figured something along the lines of this; "what have I got to lose?"

That being said, there have been posters who said that diet/lifestyle changes didn't work for them. There's a couple things we should all be aware of though. First, there are a variety of factors constantly that contribute to our health, and sometimes we can be pretty bad at blaming X, or forgetting Y also occurred as well (like AKLs example of drinking and painkillers). Even if you were eating perfectly, but were stressed and sleeping poorly, then you might not be getting ideal results.

There are plenty treatments and approaches to clearing one's skin. One method working doesn't necessarily invalidate another. Another method not working for one person doesn't necessarily invalidate that method for other people. Also, just because something worked, it doesn't mean that the person has targeted the right variable(s).

Just some things to keep in mind.

Exactly, there are multiple factors and they might not be the same at any given time. For example, I've found:

1) When I have the perfect diet, AND use benzoyl peroxide, I'll be pretty clear and can go through severe stress and not have a breakout.

2) When I have bad diet, benzoyl peroxide helps maybe 20% to improve, but definitely doesn't clear me.

3) When I have a perfect diet and no benzoyl peroxide, it slowly improves over time as long as I have no stress. But a couple of days ago I lost all my security with my living/relationship situation once again and spent the entire night crying. Result? Huge breakout.

4) Now I'm trying to see if perfect diet AND probiotics can heal me to the point where I can eventually handle some stress without my whole body falling apart.

See how complicated that is? And that's just me with my unique situation. I know my acne is very directly tied to my gut/food allergies/etc. I know because all of the things I've tried, it's foods, probiotics and other things that affect my digestion that have made a huge difference in my face. And I know stress is very related to my stomach and gut health because I'm very sensitive and stress has always given me stomach aches, ulcers, made me throw up, etc.

So I'm one person and I have this unique, complicated situation, and so are all of you. There may be things a lot of us have in common, which is why doing things that are generally good for our health, such as giving up gluten and other damaging foods, taking probiotics, not stressing and other stuff are things we can discuss and hopefully help each other. But we are all so different and acne is so complicated that of course this stuff is going to be "bad science." There isn't "good science" when it comes to something like this! How are you going to do a science experiment on an apple, an orange and a strawberry? That's how different we all are. I would probably drop dead if I ate a slice of bread, yet some of you may be able to do that without problems. I can eat oranges and lemons and other citrus all day and feel great, yet Alternavista gets cysts if she does the same. Stress makes me vomit and be weakened for a week straight, but some of you can probably coast through difficult situations without getting emotional at all.

My point is that even if we all were going through controlled scientific experiments here, the results would be different for all of us. So all we can do is share our anecdotal evidence, share our stories and try to find the common threads where we can.

So this 60+ year old lady comes in my office the other day. She had Acne just around her eyes (she's a regular so none previous), she said it's from her new glasses. I don't need anymore proof Acne is just a Allergic Reaction. I wish mine was caused by something easier to avoid then Wheat. Such is life.

Calling someone a troll or acting as if someone is a negative person for opposing or questioning your views isn't very open-minded.

 

It's sarcastic. I'm making fun of how people on here advocate the elimination of entire food groups to the point in which there is basically nothing left to eat.

 

Definition of a troll: In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,^[3] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response^[4] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Call me crazy, but I would certainly think that coming into a forum specifically devoted to people who are suffering from an unpleasant, frustrating and sometimes painful skin condition (and doing everything they know how to fight it), and admittedly making fun of those people, is trolling.

Nothing to eat? There's much to eat, it's just that you are choosing the wrong one led by your desire of wanting to eat.

 

I couldn't agree more. I have eliminated many different foods and food groups in order to help my skin condition and overall health. According to BS, I should be starving to death. Yet I eat a delicious balanced dinner every night and lay on the couch after, feeling stuffed and happy. Funny eh? I must be magical.

 

I don't think he's a troll -- I think that he just has a questioning mindset.

"Foods to avoid: Meat, dairy, fruits, vegetables, grains, fats/sweets...."

^ I actually found that hilarious. In trying to follow the "holistic method" there has been times that I've lost so much weight that I stopped menstruating, essentially putting my body into starvation mode.

While there is a lot of scientifically sound stuff on the boards, there is still a lot of crap out there regarding acne and diet.

Calling someone a troll or acting as if someone is a negative person for opposing or questioning your views isn't very open-minded.

 

It's sarcastic. I'm making fun of how people on here advocate the elimination of entire food groups to the point in which there is basically nothing left to eat.

 

Definition of a troll: In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,^[3] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response^[4] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Call me crazy, but I would certainly think that coming into a forum specifically devoted to people who are suffering from an unpleasant, frustrating and sometimes painful skin condition (and doing everything they know how to fight it), and admittedly making fun of those people, is trolling.

Nothing to eat? There's much to eat, it's just that you are choosing the wrong one led by your desire of wanting to eat.

 

I couldn't agree more. I have eliminated many different foods and food groups in order to help my skin condition and overall health. According to BS, I should be starving to death. Yet I eat a delicious balanced dinner every night and lay on the couch after, feeling stuffed and happy. Funny eh? I must be magical.

 

I don't think he's a troll -- I think that he just has a questioning mindset.

"Foods to avoid: Meat, dairy, fruits, vegetables, grains, fats/sweets...."

^ I actually found that hilarious. In trying to follow the "holistic method" there has been times that I've lost so much weight that I stopped menstruating, essentially putting my body into starvation mode.

While there is a lot of scientifically sound stuff on the boards, there is still a lot of crap out there regarding acne and diet.

 

I agree Acne & Diet is "crap". I only eat Gluten Free because Wheat does cause my Acne (& many other things). I get pissed when they call it a "Gluten Free Diet". I refer to it as avoidence of foods my immune system deems toxic, to me it's a big difference. I still eat the same type of foods, they just don't contain Gluten which I have a Allergic Reaction to.

Calling someone a troll or acting as if someone is a negative person for opposing or questioning your views isn't very open-minded.

 

It's sarcastic. I'm making fun of how people on here advocate the elimination of entire food groups to the point in which there is basically nothing left to eat.

 

Definition of a troll: In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,^[3] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response^[4] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Call me crazy, but I would certainly think that coming into a forum specifically devoted to people who are suffering from an unpleasant, frustrating and sometimes painful skin condition (and doing everything they know how to fight it), and admittedly making fun of those people, is trolling.

Nothing to eat? There's much to eat, it's just that you are choosing the wrong one led by your desire of wanting to eat.

 

I couldn't agree more. I have eliminated many different foods and food groups in order to help my skin condition and overall health. According to BS, I should be starving to death. Yet I eat a delicious balanced dinner every night and lay on the couch after, feeling stuffed and happy. Funny eh? I must be magical.

 

I don't think he's a troll -- I think that he just has a questioning mindset.

"Foods to avoid: Meat, dairy, fruits, vegetables, grains, fats/sweets...."

^ I actually found that hilarious. In trying to follow the "holistic method" there has been times that I've lost so much weight that I stopped menstruating, essentially putting my body into starvation mode.

While there is a lot of scientifically sound stuff on the boards, there is still a lot of crap out there regarding acne and diet.

 

Well that's pretty strange. If that's happening to you, you aren't eating enough calories, regardless of what your diet is. My diet is about as limited as it gets and I have no issues getting enough calories, have never lost weight, have never stopped menstruating.

I get pissed when they call it a "Gluten Free Diet". I refer to it as avoidence of foods my immune system deems toxic, to me it's a big difference. I still eat the same type of foods, they just don't contain Gluten which I have a Allergic Reaction to.

Eating foods that don't contain gluten is the definition of a "gluten free diet." Why on Earth would that piss you off to call your diet what it is?

Thanks for the reply, BSDetector! I get where you're coming from, but I did notice some issues. First, the "which most nutritionists would say is healthy". Most nutritionists would follow the food pyramid, right?

 

Yes, more or less.

And then your freshman year with the dorm food. You said it was less healthy. If it didn't have any effect on your acne, it must have had an effect on your body otherwise, even though you may not have noticed it back then.

I don't know, maybe it did, maybe it didn't. I was eating crap, but I wasn't eating a whole lot of calories in total, either. I've always been built like a twig - my weight never fluctuates, whether I under or overeat.

I don't know what your TV dinners contain, but it's my guess that most of them are made with the worst and cheapest ingredients possible: bad fats, msg, high-fructose corn syrup, to mention a few. Just think about it for a minute: if you feed yourself with these foods for your entire life, don't you think that it must have at least some impact on your body? Not consuming too much salt is obviously good, but the low fat claim is pure marketing, it has nothing to do with health. However...since they most likely use a crappy, processed fat, it's better to consume as little of it as possible. So I guess it's sort of a health claim, after all. If they would use healthy fats, there would be no need to print "low fat" on the label, as they're not bad for you, on the contrary. I agree that not consuming dairy will probably not make much difference, when the rest of your diet isn't that great to begin with.

That hasn't been proven. They're constantly revising this. In the past, saturated fat was considered bad. They'll probably revise that again some day. The fact is, any time you heat unsaturated fats, you're causing oxidative damage.

Prepubescent children do get acne too, unfortunately, though not as often as adolescents, so obviously there's more to it than hitting puberty (and some people have no issues during puberty, they start getting acne in their twenties or thirties). And where do you think obesity and diabetes come from? Genes alone are not enough. Diet and lifestyle play a huge part.

I've heard people claim this before, but I have never in my life seen a prepubescent kid with acne. Not in all my years going to school, not in a supermarket or a mall or a bowling alley, not on the street...nowhere. I've never seen it.

I got a little pimple once in a blue moon when I was a prepubescent kid, but that's not the same thing, obviously.

I agree that a healthy diet (which -again- is subjective) is more often than not not enough to clear up acne, as I've experienced myself and in people I'm coaching (and several members on this website). Some people say that diet cleared up many people's acne, but it's funny to see how they never mention a number. The word "many" is meaningless and not true in that context. Also, most -if not all- research is preliminary, inconclusive and/or flawed. Way too soon to draw conclusions. But if you look at it, feeding yourself with only bad stuff doesn't make much sense. If I were you, I'd try to improve my diet. Just start slowly, do what you can afford, focus on vegetables, good fats, less sugar and sodas, you know, just the basics. If you don't have time to cook, at least try to pick a good quality prefab meal. Over here they sell organic meals, not too expensive, takes 5 minutes to heat them. And if you really must have your usual TV dinner, at least make sure that it's a funny show you're watching

 

Well, to be honest, I don't eat TV dinners because I like them. I just don't want to have to go to the trouble of really cooking anything. Well, it's not so much the cooking, but the cleanup that annoys me.

Personally, I think our destiny is nearly entirely controlled by our genes, anyway.

Calling someone a troll or acting as if someone is a negative person for opposing or questioning your views isn't very open-minded.

 

It's sarcastic. I'm making fun of how people on here advocate the elimination of entire food groups to the point in which there is basically nothing left to eat.

 

Definition of a troll: In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,^[3] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response^[4] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Call me crazy, but I would certainly think that coming into a forum specifically devoted to people who are suffering from an unpleasant, frustrating and sometimes painful skin condition (and doing everything they know how to fight it), and admittedly making fun of those people, is trolling.

Nothing to eat? There's much to eat, it's just that you are choosing the wrong one led by your desire of wanting to eat.

 

I couldn't agree more. I have eliminated many different foods and food groups in order to help my skin condition and overall health. According to BS, I should be starving to death. Yet I eat a delicious balanced dinner every night and lay on the couch after, feeling stuffed and happy. Funny eh? I must be magical.

 

I don't think he's a troll -- I think that he just has a questioning mindset.

"Foods to avoid: Meat, dairy, fruits, vegetables, grains, fats/sweets...."

^ I actually found that hilarious. In trying to follow the "holistic method" there has been times that I've lost so much weight that I stopped menstruating, essentially putting my body into starvation mode.

While there is a lot of scientifically sound stuff on the boards, there is still a lot of crap out there regarding acne and diet.

 

Well that's pretty strange. If that's happening to you, you aren't eating enough calories, regardless of what your diet is. My diet is about as limited as it gets and I have no issues getting enough calories, have never lost weight, have never stopped menstruating.

I get pissed when they call it a "Gluten Free Diet". I refer to it as avoidence of foods my immune system deems toxic, to me it's a big difference. I still eat the same type of foods, they just don't contain Gluten which I have a Allergic Reaction to.

Eating foods that don't contain gluten is the definition of a "gluten free diet." Why on Earth would that piss you off to call your diet what it is?

 

I'm also avoid Bananas, Lettuce, Strawberries, Pork, & Goat Milk due to me being allergic to them. Do you call them Banana Free Diet, Lettuce Free Diet, Strawberry Free Diet, Pork Free Diet, & Goat Milk Free Diet? I don't. Diet, as what most people call them, are what people go on to lose weight. I'm avoiding these foods to prevent illness not lose weight (although I did lose 50+lbs (see Wheatbellies for more details)).

I get pissed when they call it a "Gluten Free Diet". I refer to it as avoidence of foods my immune system deems toxic, to me it's a big difference.

 

I get pissed when they call it "an avoidance of foods that their immune system deems toxic", while they could have used "gluten-free diet" to describe it, using less words and being more accurate at the same time. You immediately know they're avoiding gluten, while with your description it could be anything.

I'm also avoid Bananas, Lettuce, Strawberries, Pork, & Goat Milk due to me being allergic to them. Do you call them Banana Free Diet, Lettuce Free Diet, Strawberry Free Diet, Pork Free Diet, & Goat Milk Free Diet? I don't. Diet, as what most people call them, are what people go on to lose weight. I'm avoiding these foods to prevent illness not lose weight (although I did lose 50+lbs (see Wheatbellies for more details)).

 

What if someone called it a gluten-banana-lettuce-strawberry-pork-goat milk-free diet? Would you be pissed off?

A diet is the combination of foods and drinks people consume for whatever reason, not necessarily to lose weight. I'm sorry that you have to avoid those foods to prevent illness, but I honestly don't see your problem with the term "gluten-free diet".

Yes, more or less.

 

I hope less At least, the grains shouldn't be the basis of that pyramid, the vegetables should. Not that I think whole grains are bad (after reading plenty of research, though I know several people here would disagree, mostly because of the gluten theory), I just think vegetables should be #1. I also think milk shouldn't be a big part of the pyramid (dairy products like butter, yogurt and cheese are fine imo).

I don't know, maybe it did, maybe it didn't. I was eating crap, but I wasn't eating a whole lot of calories in total, either. I've always been built like a twig - my weight never fluctuates, whether I under or overeat.

 

I see, but this isn't about weight. It's about providing your body with the nutrients it needs, without it having to try and repair the damage from the added man-made nonsense. Your skin is only one of the organs your body uses for detoxification. Obviously, bad food doesn't have an impact on everybody's skin, but trust me, it will have an impact on their bodies otherwise. There's no way it won't. Have you noticed the enormous increase in obesity? Diabetes? Alzheimers? ADHD? Why would that be? Genetics only?

That hasn't been proven. They're constantly revising this. In the past, saturated fat was considered bad. They'll probably revise that again some day. The fact is, any time you heat unsaturated fats, you're causing oxidative damage.

 

Actually, that has been proven. In 2010, if I'm not mistaken. They did a meta analysis of several studies about saturated fats (a total of more than 300,000 participants, both in the US and Europe), and they concluded that there was no evidence that saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of coronary heart disease or cardiovascular disease. And I've read several studies and articles about why saturated fats aren't bad for you (as long as you don't consume a gallon a day, of course). Have a look at coconut oil, it contains a lot of lauric acid and it's excellent for cooking. Unsaturated fats are not, you're right there.

I've heard people claim this before, but I have never in my life seen a prepubescent kid with acne. Not in all my years going to school, not in a supermarket or a mall or a bowling alley, not on the street...nowhere. I've never seen it.

I got a little pimple once in a blue moon when I was a prepubescent kid, but that's not the same thing, obviously.

 

I've never seen one either, but then again, I've never really paid attention to it. As I said, it's not common, but it does happen. Genetics definitely are at the basis, as is the case with all acne sufferers. That doesn't rule out the possible role diet plays. It's a known fact that children who were not breastfed, lack certain probiotic bacteria, for example. It's not for no reason that companies like Nestl© started adding probiotics to their infant formulas some 15 years ago.

And what about people who start getting acne in their 20's or 30's (or even later)? That can't be blamed on puberty. Why didn't they get a single zit during puberty (when you'd expect it), but much later?

Well, to be honest, I don't eat TV dinners because I like them. I just don't want to have to go to the trouble of really cooking anything. Well, it's not so much the cooking, but the cleanup that annoys me.

Personally, I think our destiny is nearly entirely controlled by our genes, anyway.

 

Of course, genes play a major role. And food affects gene expression.

Forgive me, but I honestly don't get why you eat TV dinners if you don't like them. Even if you don't feel like cooking, at least try to get a proper meal that you enjoy. And cooking itself can be fun. Unfortunately, both me and my gf don't have much time to cook (busy jobs), but when we do, we like experimenting with ingredients. I don't really stick to rules, I use everything I think is appropriate, which is often a bad mistake (yeah yeah Tim, shaddup ). So...in the rare event that I like a meal that I've prepared, I don't mind cleaning up. It takes 10 minutes at most, for the 2 of us. Can't be an excuse to deprive yourself of a decent meal. So come on, Gordon Ramsey, you can do it, too! Why don't you start with something simple like a salad?

I know that many things have been said about Acne & diet. But it all boils down to two directions :

1. Diet and acne are not related

2. Diet and acne are related

If we decide indefinitely, that diet and acne are not related, we can go about our merry ways and find other ways of curing acne, which don't involve oral consumption. This would have to rule out Accutane. Technically if you are consuming Accutane, you have made it part of your diet. You are consuming something which changes you, so much, that your body decides to stop sprouting acne. I would say this is enough correlation for me to believe that diet and acne are related.

We must explore choice #2, which opens up an entire world of cause and effect. My battle with acne has been essentially a long list of exploring cause and effect.

How many people on this forum have struggled with the experience of trying something new to cure their acne, gaining hope from some immediately observable results, only to have another breakout soon after going through some healing? Some experiments go well, and others, not so well.

Everyone has a unique anti-acne list. This list may be full of placebos, or treatments unique to the individual that work. Truth is, we are indeed similar, biologically, but also radically different from each other. I would not be surprised if acne became merely a telltale indicator to doctors that something is wrong with the patient, be it their diet, personal hygiene, or something else.

here's my unique anti-acne list bullet points :

- floss

- brush teeth well. oral care is important.

- wash face 2x a day, with dan's regimen

- wash behind the ears very thoroughly with water, but gently

- eat unprocessed foods

- avoid wheat

- increase vegetable and fruit intake

- be sure to count calories and not to exceed, if the day was mostly inactive

- exercise (very important)

- breath through the nose at all times

- wash behind the knees, back, all the major crevices

Pretty short list, but it works for me. If I eliminated all of the dietary bullet points from my anti-acne list, my acne would most definitely be exacerbated. Some of these, I am more sure about than others, but I maintain them all because of their health benefits.

Many people are in denial that acne and diet are related, but how many of these people do you guys believe have truly made the commitment to change what they eat? How many of them set aside the time and energy to buy vegetables in bulk, learn recipes, cook, create a food log, and count calories? Most people can barely take care of themselves.

I'm still in my experimental stages with diet, but I'm going to say that changing my diet has made the biggest impact, apart from Dan's regimen. I believe Dan's regimen takes care of what will happen topically, but it won't permeate the skin and fix what is inside. If you have cysts, you need to change your diet.

As an aside...you want to know one of the most effective treatments I've discovered for myself? If I stay up all night (and a little more)...to the point where I am so exhausted I could basically pass out...and then I sleep in the middle of the day...when I wake up, my skin often has healed dramatically. This is noteworthy for me because my skin doesn't normally heal much from normal sleep. It has to be intense mid-day type sleep in order to really stimulate the healing.

This is something that happens to likely everyone. When you lack sleep, your body is doing all kinds of things that are unhealthy to keep you awake. Once you get that rest, of course, you will look in the mirror and feel and look better.

Tracking down the relationship between acne and diet is more difficult than one might think. In most cases, I'd say diet largely affects sleep. If your intestines and stomach are in a state of chaos and turmoil, because you have festering, processed food inside, your sleep will probably not be ideal.

I cannot stress enough that diet alone will not cure acne, an entire lifestyle change will. However, nothing will have a more profound impact on you than changing your diet. You can slather on all the topical medication you want, but think about it using what you call "science." If applying something on the outside of your body affects acne, why wouldn't something you put inside have an even greater affect?

If you drank 3 gallons of water right now, you would probably die. If you were splashed with 50 gallons of water right now, you will probably just get very wet. You want to talk about physical matter, what you put in your mouth is something you do more than 1 time a day. Think about a year's worth of meals - a thousand or more depending on who you are. That is a thousand times you are contributing to your body's chemistry and affecting it.

You talk about science, but it doesn't even take science to figure out that what you eat will affect your body, inside and out.

^^ I'm clear and happy. If you can't respect my method then that's your problem.

Why don't you go talk to some monks and tell them that their lifestyle "sucks" because they choose to remain abstinent. Maybe they have the patience to sit there while you spout off your "valid" criticisms of their lifestyle, but I don't.

 

Hey, I say as long as you're happy, that's okay for you. If it were me I'd probably keep trying to find the root cause, though. If you don't feel that food can correct your hormone imbalance, maybe some type of medicine could? Do you think it might be related to prolactin release after orgasm? Because someone I know has troubles in that way. Orgasming doesn't break him out but it does cause him serious mood issues, body pain and fatigue.

I only ask if you think it might be related because there are prolactin inhibitors you can take.

I'm not saying abstinence isn't a valid choice or anything. It's just a thought.

 

Just a thought, but having an orgasm can deprive someone of zinc and other nutrients.