Notifications
Clear all

Do You Holistic Healthers Realize What Bad Science This Stuff Is?

 
MemberMember
10
(@o-havoc-o)

Posted : 10/24/2012 12:25 pm

Diet has nothing to do with my acne, but naturally the holistic forums are going to claim that almost everything can be cured through proper nutrition and diet.

Sorry to say it, but it's not true.

I did many elimination diets with zero positive or negative effect. I ate incredibly healthy with every supplement under the sun. I cook all my own food with fresh ingredients. What cleared me 100% after many many years was avoiding orgasms.

 

Eating healthy and eating what is right for you does not go hand in hand. I've been doing nutritional plans for a while now and what people consider to be "healthy" is at times shocking and at times i cannot believe what i am hearing.

To rule all nutrition altogether is a misguided view in my opinion.

You say avoid orgasms cured you? Okay that may be but why do you think that? Hormonal response would be guess. Guess how you can control hormonal response. Through nutrition.

Quote
MemberMember
29
(@tritonxiv)

Posted : 10/24/2012 12:40 pm

You say avoid orgasms cured you? Okay that may be but why do you think that? Hormonal response would be guess. Guess how you can control hormonal response. Through nutrition.

 

Half-truth right here. Nutrition might have an effect on hormonal response, but you never specify to what degree. That's where holistic practitioners get yah (and your money). They give you a few scientific studies that look good on paper, but what the patient dosen't realize is that these processes might not have a significant (or any) real-world effect on their acne.

Acne has nothing to do with the overall "health" of your diet and to claim otherwise is ignoring the people who have actually cleared their acne through diet. No one can claim that oranges are somehow "unhealthy" and yet avoiding oranges that was what cleared Alternativista. Claiming that a healthy diet is somehow a cure-all (especially with regards to acne) is just ignorant.

Quote
MemberMember
271
(@dejaclairevoyant)

Posted : 10/24/2012 1:10 pm

If you don't think nutrition plays a huge role in your condition, what is your explanation for your reaction to having an orgasm? That clearly isn't a healthy or normal reaction. We are built to have orgasms. I mean, do you just feel that's the way it is, and that's it?

Quote
MemberMember
29
(@tritonxiv)

Posted : 10/24/2012 1:28 pm

Avoiding orgasms keeps me clear, so you immediately jump to the conclusion that my condition must be caused by diet? Really?

 

It makes no logical sense to jump from A to C completely ignoring the pathway B ... unless you're a holistic advocate, that is wink.png

 

Nutrition is very clearly not connected to my acne in any way. I'd appreciate it if people wouldn't speak like diet is the cause and cure of every single malady a human can contract, with no proof to back up that claim.

Quote
MemberMember
21
(@onefatalgoose)

Posted : 10/24/2012 1:34 pm

@BSDetector: what is your diet like? Do you have acne, if so, what grade? Have you tried eliminating certain foods? Which ones, for how long? Sleep schedule? Stress levels? (yes, I've read your post in which you asked what stress is. Do a Google search, you'll find out) Exercise? You must have a reason why you're so convinced that a holistic approach doesn't have any impact on (your) acne at all, I assume.

 

Notice how when you ask him a direct and reasonable question/s...you can hear crickets chirping in the background. I suppose he could be thinking it over pretty heavily. but this seems to be a typical experience with BS Detector, and with most trolls in general

Quote
MemberMember
271
(@dejaclairevoyant)

Posted : 10/24/2012 1:37 pm

Avoiding orgasms keeps me clear, so you immediately jump to the conclusion that my condition must be caused by diet? Really?

It makes no logical sense to jump from A to C completely ignoring the pathway B ... unless you're a holistic advocate, that is wink.png

Nutrition is very clearly not connected to my acne in any way. I'd appreciate it if people wouldn't speak like diet is the cause and cure of every single malady a human can contract, with no proof to back up that claim.

 

I didn't say that at all. I asked you what you thought it was, if not nutrition related?

Quote
MemberMember
10
(@o-havoc-o)

Posted : 10/24/2012 1:51 pm

You say avoid orgasms cured you? Okay that may be but why do you think that? Hormonal response would be guess. Guess how you can control hormonal response. Through nutrition.

 

Half-truth right here. Nutrition might have an effect on hormonal response, but you never specify to what degree. That's where holistic practitioners get yah (and your money). They give you a few scientific studies that look good on paper, but what the patient dosen't realize is that these processes might not have a significant (or any) real-world effect on their acne.

Acne has nothing to do with the overall "health" of your diet and to claim otherwise is ignoring the people who have actually cleared their acne through diet. No one can claim that oranges are somehow "unhealthy" and yet avoiding oranges that was what cleared Alternativista. Claiming that a healthy diet is somehow a cure-all (especially with regards to acne) is just ignorant.

 

Okay where is your conclusive scientific study that rules out nutrition and says acne has nothing to do with diet for ALL acne suffers? I'd be really interesting in reading that study.

Nutritional and hormonal response. Insulin, leptin, grelin, testosterone thyroid, GHF-1 to name a few. All can be manipulated through nutrition. This is a fact as the first thing i do when help someone with their nutrition is stabilize their hormones. So to say nutrition does not do anything to hormones is complete rubbish and scientifically incorrect.

I'm not say diet will affect every acne sufferer as it has had limited albeit very positive effect on me. However i have seen other people get clear through good eating, then again i know people who eat crap and never had a spot.

It's not a one glove fits all which you are trying to portray.

Avoiding orgasms keeps me clear, so you immediately jump to the conclusion that my condition must be caused by diet? Really?

It makes no logical sense to jump from A to C completely ignoring the pathway B ... unless you're a holistic advocate, that is wink.png

Nutrition is very clearly not connected to my acne in any way. I'd appreciate it if people wouldn't speak like diet is the cause and cure of every single malady a human can contract, with no proof to back up that claim.

 

if it is orgsems then your acne is clearly hormonal. Okay so you're controlling that way, but hormones are also controlled through diet.

Quote
MemberMember
29
(@tritonxiv)

Posted : 10/24/2012 1:51 pm

I didn't say that at all. I asked you what you thought it was, if not nutrition related?

 

The proclivity to acne is genetic.Genetics is the one and only cause of acne. Genetics has nothing to do with how "healthy" your diet is as an adult because it is determined at birth.

What triggers acne depends upon the individual and can be likened to allergies. That's all there is to it. Some people are "acne allergic" to oranges, some to soy, milk, eggs, certain hormones, and orgasms (which trigger insane amounts of hormones). This dosen't mean eggs, soy, milk, oranges, and orgasms are necessarily bad for you. It just means your personal human machine doesn't react well to them.

That's my theory as to why some people like Alternativista can get clear by avoiding one specific food group. There is no need for scientific research with my theory, because what triggers acne for each person might be completely random, and therefore... trial and error are the only ways to figure out what's causing your acne.

Oh and by the way... food manipulates different hormones than orgasms do. So while the hormones influenced by food may be other people's trigger, it certainly wasn't mine.

Quote
MemberMember
1
(@jjj333kkk2)

Posted : 10/24/2012 3:16 pm

I agree that a ton of people on this forum aren`t very scientific at all.

 

But there`s plenty of people who do know what they`re talking about. There are plenty of scientific studies linking diet and acne. For example, high-glycemic load foods and animal milk products are strongly correlated with acne. The studies are linked in a sticky at the top of the forum.

Quote
MemberMember
0
(@bsdetector)

Posted : 10/24/2012 8:02 pm

Yes. His posts are perfect examples of trolling. And he's rarely posted anything else. He also knows nothing about us. We do not all follow the same diet. We are not all addressing the same health issues. And we certainly do not avoid all food groups to the point there is nothing left to eat. His ridicule and attacks are based are invalid assumptions clearly pulled from the place BS usually comes from.

 

OK, that last sentence made me lol lol.gif

Anyway, if that's this community's definition of trolling, then everybody posting a "This is the cure" topic (with the best intentions, obviously) is a troll as well. But they're taking a holistic approach, so they're hardly ever under attack. I'm all for proper diets (though that's subjective) and a healthy lifestyle, but I also don't mind people questioning the methods and science that are posted here. All people replied with are vague and general terms, nothing to the point (some exceptions). It's a trend in this forum to call people "not helpful" or even trolls whenever they question something. To them I'd say: question your own logic and research, always. And try to keep an open mind, it won't hurt. I'm definitely with jarrit on this.

Deja, I agree, the "making fun of" part is unnecessary, he could have done without, but you called him a troll before he posted that, and that's unnecessary as well. I also agree with alternativista and Bearishly that what you eat affects your body. It's impossible for it not to. But that's hardly enough evidence to say that what you eat causes acne, or that avoiding certain foods or even entire food groups will get rid of it, no matter what your diet is like. Some people are able to find their trigger(s) and eliminate acne by avoiding them, but in my experience most people aren't that lucky. It's my guess that this is what BSDetector is trying to say, in his own, peculiar way. He does have a point when saying that it could be external factors playing a role as well, since just about everything has completely changed over the last century.

If that is what he said, then it would be a valid discussion as opposed to a troll. Although it would be a completely pointless post as few people here would and ever have argue that 100% of cases could be cleared via diet alone.

 

Haha yeah, exactly!

@BSDetector: what is your diet like? Do you have acne, if so, what grade? Have you tried eliminating certain foods? Which ones, for how long? Sleep schedule? Stress levels? (yes, I've read your post in which you asked what stress is. Do a Google search, you'll find out) Exercise? You must have a reason why you're so convinced that a holistic approach doesn't have any impact on (your) acne at all, I assume.

 

I have had acne for 12-13 years now, and my diet has changed enormously over the years.

Back in the early 2000's when I lived with my parents, I ate my mom's cooking...which most nutritionists would say is healthy. Well-balanced meals. Moderation.

Then I went away to college, and I ate dorm food my freshman year. Less healthy.

My sophomore year, I didn't even bother with dorm food. I ate my dinners out of the vending machines - potato chips, Reese's peanut butter cups, kitkat bars, M&Ms, other chocolate-based candy. Least healthy.

And you want to know something funny? That sophomore year was the first time I got my acne under control since I first started to really develop it. Of course, the real reason I started to get it under control that year is I made a concerted effort to apply Neutrogena On-the-Spot 2.5% benzoyl peroxide all over my face every night (the only part of Dan's regimen I used). It obviously had nothing to do with the junk food improving my skin.

Now that I've graduated college and live on my own, I live mostly off TV dinners. I eat the lower sodium and lower fat ones. I also often cook some pasta. I sometimes eat eggs. I eat other frozen foods that I heat in the microwave like waffles.

Acne level? Varies. Peaks and valleys. Sometimes I have it largely under control with Dan's 2.5% BP, other times it seems to overwhelm the treatment and I have to ride it out (or I get frustrated and try something else...but I always go back to the BP in the end).

As an aside...you want to know one of the most effective treatments I've discovered for myself? If I stay up all night (and a little more)...to the point where I am so exhausted I could basically pass out...and then I sleep in the middle of the day...when I wake up, my skin often has healed dramatically. This is noteworthy for me because my skin doesn't normally heal much from normal sleep. It has to be intense mid-day type sleep in order to really stimulate the healing.

Anyway...as far as eliminating certain foods: I don't consume much dairy at all. I don't drink milk, don't eat cheese (except for rare occasions)...the extent of my dairy consumption is with milk and milk products added to certain products I eat in trace amounts. This has nothing to do with buying into any of the "dairy = acne" claims. I just don't particularly like dairy. So I find it funny when people make such a big fuss over dairy when coming up with holistic "cures."

Re: Stress...I still don't really know what people mean by that. To me, "strain" is synonymous with "stress." Yet people talk about how exercise "reduces stress." That doesn't make any sense to me. Exercise involves putting strain/stress on your body...that's kind of the point. When you run, you're straining your heart and your blood vessels and your lungs. When you lift weights, you're mostly straining your muscles.

When I was in college, I walked to all my classes...which was no small feat. I got plenty of exercise. I get significantly less now that I'm done with school. Again, I've seen no correlation between exercise and acne.

Apart from my personal experiences, the fundamental flaw in arguing for diet being the culprit is you just don't see prepubescent children with acne, regardless of what their diet is. You see obesity. You see diabetes. You don't see acne. Your hormones didn't all of a sudden cause problems because you started eating unhealthy as a teenager. They caused problems because you hit puberty. You want to reduce the appearance of acne, reduce inflammation. You want to get rid of the process that causes acne?

Well, I have no idea how to do that, but diet sure as hell isn't the way.

Quote
MemberMember
31
(@tuffluck)

Posted : 10/25/2012 12:49 am

Diet may not be the way for you but it is for me and many other people on here. Thats a fact. GL.

Quote
MemberMember
2
(@whoartthou1)

Posted : 10/25/2012 1:31 am

BSdetector, i actually agree with a lot of things you say. I am still trying to find out how i can keep my acne under control. It seems when i eat healthy, it almost feels placebo in the sense that my acne starts healing... but reverts back to its original stage.

 

Regarding this: "you want to know one of the most effective treatments I've discovered for myself? If I stay up all night (and a little more)...to the point where I am so exhausted I could basically pass out...and then I sleep in the middle of the day...when I wake up, my skin often has healed dramatically. This is noteworthy for me because my skin doesn't normally heal much from normal sleep. It has to be intense mid-day type sleep in order to really stimulate the healing."

 

I noticed a Very similar thing. For example, if i stay up all night playing games etc, my skin looks like SHIT. My red marks are even more red/inflamed, skin is blotchy, scars even worse... but once i wake up from being dead tired, my skin is so much better.

 

I also noticed if i am doing something that gets me tired throughout the day, when i sleep, i get much better sleep than if i sleep without being tired... and as a result my acne heals better too.

Quote
MemberMember
271
(@dejaclairevoyant)

Posted : 10/25/2012 10:49 am

Puberty never had any effect on my skin. I never got acne until I was in my twenties. I did however have severe rashes and other autoimmune problems.

Quote
MemberMember
9
(@ayla)

Posted : 10/25/2012 1:06 pm

Diet has nothing to do with my acne, but naturally the holistic forums are going to claim that almost everything can be cured through proper nutrition and diet.

Sorry to say it, but it's not true.

I did many elimination diets with zero positive or negative effect. I ate incredibly healthy with every supplement under the sun. I cook all my own food with fresh ingredients. What cleared me 100% after many many years was avoiding orgasms.

 

Define "healthy"

What you define as healthy, what I define it as, and what the FDA defines it as, are likely very different. Very.

Great that not having orgasms clears you up. But, really? Are you satisfied with that answer? Do you have a monthly, yearly, or lifetime allotment? That must suck. Good luck.

Quote
MemberMember
29
(@tritonxiv)

Posted : 10/25/2012 1:42 pm

Great that not having orgasms clears you up. But, really? Are you satisfied with that answer?

 

Yes.

Do you have a monthly, yearly, or lifetime allotment? That must suck.

 

Your sardonic comment about my lifestyle choice is really unnecessary. I don't think it sucks at all.

Quote
MemberMember
10
(@o-havoc-o)

Posted : 10/25/2012 2:26 pm

Diet has nothing to do with my acne, but naturally the holistic forums are going to claim that almost everything can be cured through proper nutrition and diet.

Sorry to say it, but it's not true.

I did many elimination diets with zero positive or negative effect. I ate incredibly healthy with every supplement under the sun. I cook all my own food with fresh ingredients. What cleared me 100% after many many years was avoiding orgasms.

 

Define "healthy"

What you define as healthy, what I define it as, and what the FDA defines it as, are likely very different. Very.

Great that not having orgasms clears you up. But, really? Are you satisfied with that answer? Do you have a monthly, yearly, or lifetime allotment? That must suck. Good luck.

 

This made me chuckle! :D

Quote
MemberMember
1
(@bearishly)

Posted : 10/25/2012 2:37 pm

Why was this thread re-opened, again? It's a train wreck.

Quote
MemberMember
9
(@ayla)

Posted : 10/25/2012 5:45 pm

Great that not having orgasms clears you up. But, really? Are you satisfied with that answer?

 

Yes.

Do you have a monthly, yearly, or lifetime allotment? That must suck.

 

Your sardonic comment about my lifestyle choice is really unnecessary. I don't think it sucks at all.

 

Most words are unnecessary, that doesn't make them any less valid.

I think there something inherently wrong with forcing yourself out of biologically programmed behavior, especially one meant to bring about pleasure. I think you see that, and that's what you find offensive. My point was that you shouldn't have to make this a 'lifestyle choice.' That ...well, that sucks. Sorry.

Food, real, clean, food, is something we are meant to eat, a lifestyle choice we should make. Real food will satiate, bring pleasure, nourishment, and healing. If it isn't, if it doesn't, there is a flaw in your strategy.

So again, I ask you to define 'healthy' - what did that mean to you? What did a week's worth of food entail?

Quote
MemberMember
29
(@tritonxiv)

Posted : 10/25/2012 6:42 pm

^^ I'm clear and happy. If you can't respect my method then that's your problem.

 

Why don't you go talk to some monks and tell them that their lifestyle "sucks" because they choose to remain abstinent. Maybe they have the patience to sit there while you spout off your "valid" criticisms of their lifestyle, but I don't. :)

Quote
MemberMember
271
(@dejaclairevoyant)

Posted : 10/25/2012 8:43 pm

^^ I'm clear and happy. If you can't respect my method then that's your problem.

Why don't you go talk to some monks and tell them that their lifestyle "sucks" because they choose to remain abstinent. Maybe they have the patience to sit there while you spout off your "valid" criticisms of their lifestyle, but I don't. smile.png

 

Hey, I say as long as you're happy, that's okay for you. If it were me I'd probably keep trying to find the root cause, though. If you don't feel that food can correct your hormone imbalance, maybe some type of medicine could? Do you think it might be related to prolactin release after orgasm? Because someone I know has troubles in that way. Orgasming doesn't break him out but it does cause him serious mood issues, body pain and fatigue.

I only ask if you think it might be related because there are prolactin inhibitors you can take.

I'm not saying abstinence isn't a valid choice or anything. It's just a thought.

Quote
MemberMember
651
(@akl)

Posted : 10/25/2012 8:56 pm

Why was this thread re-opened, again? It's a train wreck.

 

It wasn't reopened again, it was reopened once, after cleaning up. If all "train wrecks" here have to be closed, there wouldn't be many threads left. We don't close topics just because someone doesn't agree. That's what forums are for: discussion. Your post represents another crashed wagon, to use your jargon, making you partially responsible for the train wreck.

I have had acne for 12-13 years now, and my diet has changed enormously over the years.

Back in the early 2000's when I lived with my parents, I ate my mom's cooking...which most nutritionists would say is healthy. Well-balanced meals. Moderation.

Then I went away to college, and I ate dorm food my freshman year. Less healthy.

My sophomore year, I didn't even bother with dorm food. I ate my dinners out of the vending machines - potato chips, Reese's peanut butter cups, kitkat bars, M&Ms, other chocolate-based candy. Least healthy.

And you want to know something funny? That sophomore year was the first time I got my acne under control since I first started to really develop it. Of course, the real reason I started to get it under control that year is I made a concerted effort to apply Neutrogena On-the-Spot 2.5% benzoyl peroxide all over my face every night (the only part of Dan's regimen I used). It obviously had nothing to do with the junk food improving my skin.

Now that I've graduated college and live on my own, I live mostly off TV dinners. I eat the lower sodium and lower fat ones. I also often cook some pasta. I sometimes eat eggs. I eat other frozen foods that I heat in the microwave like waffles.

Acne level? Varies. Peaks and valleys. Sometimes I have it largely under control with Dan's 2.5% BP, other times it seems to overwhelm the treatment and I have to ride it out (or I get frustrated and try something else...but I always go back to the BP in the end).

As an aside...you want to know one of the most effective treatments I've discovered for myself? If I stay up all night (and a little more)...to the point where I am so exhausted I could basically pass out...and then I sleep in the middle of the day...when I wake up, my skin often has healed dramatically. This is noteworthy for me because my skin doesn't normally heal much from normal sleep. It has to be intense mid-day type sleep in order to really stimulate the healing.

Anyway...as far as eliminating certain foods: I don't consume much dairy at all. I don't drink milk, don't eat cheese (except for rare occasions)...the extent of my dairy consumption is with milk and milk products added to certain products I eat in trace amounts. This has nothing to do with buying into any of the "dairy = acne" claims. I just don't particularly like dairy. So I find it funny when people make such a big fuss over dairy when coming up with holistic "cures."

Re: Stress...I still don't really know what people mean by that. To me, "strain" is synonymous with "stress." Yet people talk about how exercise "reduces stress." That doesn't make any sense to me. Exercise involves putting strain/stress on your body...that's kind of the point. When you run, you're straining your heart and your blood vessels and your lungs. When you lift weights, you're mostly straining your muscles.

When I was in college, I walked to all my classes...which was no small feat. I got plenty of exercise. I get significantly less now that I'm done with school. Again, I've seen no correlation between exercise and acne.

Apart from my personal experiences, the fundamental flaw in arguing for diet being the culprit is you just don't see prepubescent children with acne, regardless of what their diet is. You see obesity. You see diabetes. You don't see acne. Your hormones didn't all of a sudden cause problems because you started eating unhealthy as a teenager. They caused problems because you hit puberty. You want to reduce the appearance of acne, reduce inflammation. You want to get rid of the process that causes acne?

Well, I have no idea how to do that, but diet sure as hell isn't the way.

 

Thanks for the reply, BSDetector! I get where you're coming from, but I did notice some issues. First, the "which most nutritionists would say is healthy". Most nutritionists would follow the food pyramid, right? And then your freshman year with the dorm food. You said it was less healthy. If it didn't have any effect on your acne, it must have had an effect on your body otherwise, even though you may not have noticed it back then. Obviously, since you started using BP in your sophomore year, it's pretty much impossible to say whether or not your diet (lousy diet, I might add) had any effect on your acne. It's like drinking 10 beers, getting a headache, taking a pain killer, and then saying the alcohol had nothing to do with your headache.

I don't know what your TV dinners contain, but it's my guess that most of them are made with the worst and cheapest ingredients possible: bad fats, msg, high-fructose corn syrup, to mention a few. Just think about it for a minute: if you feed yourself with these foods for your entire life, don't you think that it must have at least some impact on your body? Not consuming too much salt is obviously good, but the low fat claim is pure marketing, it has nothing to do with health. However...since they most likely use a crappy, processed fat, it's better to consume as little of it as possible. So I guess it's sort of a health claim, after all. If they would use healthy fats, there would be no need to print "low fat" on the label, as they're not bad for you, on the contrary. I agree that not consuming dairy will probably not make much difference, when the rest of your diet isn't that great to begin with.

It's funny you mention the staying up all night, I've experienced the same thing when I was playing a lot with my band, coming home at 6 or 7am, and sleeping during the morning/afternoon. I can't explain it, but it sure was weird! Research definitely suggests that loss of sleep increases inflammation and insulin resistance, though, but I don't remember if it was necessary to sleep at night. I'll look up the studies, if you want me to.

When people talk about stress, they usually talk about mental stress. Mental stress isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as you keep it within limits. And that applies to the stress you put on your body as well, in my opinion. Working out and exercising are great, going overboard is not. Will exercising clear up acne? Nah, not that I know. Especially when everything you eat is crap, like during your sophomore year.

Prepubescent children do get acne too, unfortunately, though not as often as adolescents, so obviously there's more to it than hitting puberty (and some people have no issues during puberty, they start getting acne in their twenties or thirties). And where do you think obesity and diabetes come from? Genes alone are not enough. Diet and lifestyle play a huge part.

I agree that a healthy diet (which -again- is subjective) is more often than not not enough to clear up acne, as I've experienced myself and in people I'm coaching (and several members on this website). Some people say that diet cleared up many people's acne, but it's funny to see how they never mention a number. The word "many" is meaningless and not true in that context. Also, most -if not all- research is preliminary, inconclusive and/or flawed. Way too soon to draw conclusions. But if you look at it, feeding yourself with only bad stuff doesn't make much sense. If I were you, I'd try to improve my diet. Just start slowly, do what you can afford, focus on vegetables, good fats, less sugar and sodas, you know, just the basics. If you don't have time to cook, at least try to pick a good quality prefab meal. Over here they sell organic meals, not too expensive, takes 5 minutes to heat them. And if you really must have your usual TV dinner, at least make sure that it's a funny show you're watching wink.png

Quote
MemberMember
4
(@chelslaw)

Posted : 10/25/2012 10:08 pm

this is probably my most favourite thread on this whole forum

Quote
MemberMember
10
(@o-havoc-o)

Posted : 10/26/2012 3:47 am

Why was this thread re-opened, again? It's a train wreck.

 

It wasn't reopened again, it was reopened once, after cleaning up. If all "train wrecks" here have to be closed, there wouldn't be many threads left. We don't close topics just because someone doesn't agree. That's what forums are for: discussion. Your post represents another crashed wagon, to use your jargon, making you partially responsible for the train wreck.

I have had acne for 12-13 years now, and my diet has changed enormously over the years.

Back in the early 2000's when I lived with my parents, I ate my mom's cooking...which most nutritionists would say is healthy. Well-balanced meals. Moderation.

Then I went away to college, and I ate dorm food my freshman year. Less healthy.

My sophomore year, I didn't even bother with dorm food. I ate my dinners out of the vending machines - potato chips, Reese's peanut butter cups, kitkat bars, M&Ms, other chocolate-based candy. Least healthy.

And you want to know something funny? That sophomore year was the first time I got my acne under control since I first started to really develop it. Of course, the real reason I started to get it under control that year is I made a concerted effort to apply Neutrogena On-the-Spot 2.5% benzoyl peroxide all over my face every night (the only part of Dan's regimen I used). It obviously had nothing to do with the junk food improving my skin.

Now that I've graduated college and live on my own, I live mostly off TV dinners. I eat the lower sodium and lower fat ones. I also often cook some pasta. I sometimes eat eggs. I eat other frozen foods that I heat in the microwave like waffles.

Acne level? Varies. Peaks and valleys. Sometimes I have it largely under control with Dan's 2.5% BP, other times it seems to overwhelm the treatment and I have to ride it out (or I get frustrated and try something else...but I always go back to the BP in the end).

As an aside...you want to know one of the most effective treatments I've discovered for myself? If I stay up all night (and a little more)...to the point where I am so exhausted I could basically pass out...and then I sleep in the middle of the day...when I wake up, my skin often has healed dramatically. This is noteworthy for me because my skin doesn't normally heal much from normal sleep. It has to be intense mid-day type sleep in order to really stimulate the healing.

Anyway...as far as eliminating certain foods: I don't consume much dairy at all. I don't drink milk, don't eat cheese (except for rare occasions)...the extent of my dairy consumption is with milk and milk products added to certain products I eat in trace amounts. This has nothing to do with buying into any of the "dairy = acne" claims. I just don't particularly like dairy. So I find it funny when people make such a big fuss over dairy when coming up with holistic "cures."

Re: Stress...I still don't really know what people mean by that. To me, "strain" is synonymous with "stress." Yet people talk about how exercise "reduces stress." That doesn't make any sense to me. Exercise involves putting strain/stress on your body...that's kind of the point. When you run, you're straining your heart and your blood vessels and your lungs. When you lift weights, you're mostly straining your muscles.

When I was in college, I walked to all my classes...which was no small feat. I got plenty of exercise. I get significantly less now that I'm done with school. Again, I've seen no correlation between exercise and acne.

Apart from my personal experiences, the fundamental flaw in arguing for diet being the culprit is you just don't see prepubescent children with acne, regardless of what their diet is. You see obesity. You see diabetes. You don't see acne. Your hormones didn't all of a sudden cause problems because you started eating unhealthy as a teenager. They caused problems because you hit puberty. You want to reduce the appearance of acne, reduce inflammation. You want to get rid of the process that causes acne?

Well, I have no idea how to do that, but diet sure as hell isn't the way.

 

Thanks for the reply, BSDetector! I get where you're coming from, but I did notice some issues. First, the "which most nutritionists would say is healthy". Most nutritionists would follow the food pyramid, right? And then your freshman year with the dorm food. You said it was less healthy. If it didn't have any effect on your acne, it must have had an effect on your body otherwise, even though you may not have noticed it back then. Obviously, since you started using BP in your sophomore year, it's pretty much impossible to say whether or not your diet (lousy diet, I might add) had any effect on your acne. It's like drinking 10 beers, getting a headache, taking a pain killer, and then saying the alcohol had nothing to do with your headache.

I don't know what your TV dinners contain, but it's my guess that most of them are made with the worst and cheapest ingredients possible: bad fats, msg, high-fructose corn syrup, to mention a few. Just think about it for a minute: if you feed yourself with these foods for your entire life, don't you think that it must have at least some impact on your body? Not consuming too much salt is obviously good, but the low fat claim is pure marketing, it has nothing to do with health. However...since they most likely use a crappy, processed fat, it's better to consume as little of it as possible. So I guess it's sort of a health claim, after all. If they would use healthy fats, there would be no need to print "low fat" on the label, as they're not bad for you, on the contrary. I agree that not consuming dairy will probably not make much difference, when the rest of your diet isn't that great to begin with.

It's funny you mention the staying up all night, I've experienced the same thing when I was playing a lot with my band, coming home at 6 or 7am, and sleeping during the morning/afternoon. I can't explain it, but it sure was weird! Research definitely suggests that loss of sleep increases inflammation and insulin resistance, though, but I don't remember if it was necessary to sleep at night. I'll look up the studies, if you want me to.

When people talk about stress, they usually talk about mental stress. Mental stress isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as you keep it within limits. And that applies to the stress you put on your body as well, in my opinion. Working out and exercising are great, going overboard is not. Will exercising clear up acne? Nah, not that I know. Especially when everything you eat is crap, like during your sophomore year.

Prepubescent children do get acne too, unfortunately, though not as often as adolescents, so obviously there's more to it than hitting puberty (and some people have no issues during puberty, they start getting acne in their twenties or thirties). And where do you think obesity and diabetes come from? Genes alone are not enough. Diet and lifestyle play a huge part.

I agree that a healthy diet (which -again- is subjective) is more often than not not enough to clear up acne, as I've experienced myself and in people I'm coaching (and several members on this website). Some people say that diet cleared up many people's acne, but it's funny to see how they never mention a number. The word "many" is meaningless and not true in that context. Also, most -if not all- research is preliminary, inconclusive and/or flawed. Way too soon to draw conclusions. But if you look at it, feeding yourself with only bad stuff doesn't make much sense. If I were you, I'd try to improve my diet. Just start slowly, do what you can afford, focus on vegetables, good fats, less sugar and sodas, you know, just the basics. If you don't have time to cook, at least try to pick a good quality prefab meal. Over here they sell organic meals, not too expensive, takes 5 minutes to heat them. And if you really must have your usual TV dinner, at least make sure that it's a funny show you're watching wink.png

 

I love this guy! :D

Spot on with everything you said, especially about the low fat BS we get from marketing

Quote
MemberMember
1
(@bearishly)

Posted : 10/26/2012 9:09 am

Why was this thread re-opened, again? It's a train wreck.

 

It wasn't reopened again, it was reopened once,

after cleaning up.

Check my comma placement.

If all "train wrecks" here have to be closed, there wouldn't be many threads left. We don't close topics just because someone doesn't agree. That's what forums are for: discussion. Your post represents another crashed wagon, to use your jargon, making you partially responsible for the train wreck.

Read the title. The thread's entire purpose is to attack the dedicated members of this section of the forum. The thread's OP made a broad sweeping generalization based on his own personal experience to try and de-legitimize the science-based experimentation of others. Now people are going after someone's sexual habits for some reason.

That's why it's a train wreck.

Quote
MemberMember
651
(@akl)

Posted : 10/26/2012 4:11 pm

Check my comma placement.

 

I have. The part after the comma refers to the part before the comma, it's one sentence/question. That's how I've read it. Apparently, you wanted to emphasize the train wreck part, but no matter how I read it, I still don't agree with closing the topic.

Read the title. The thread's entire purpose is to attack the dedicated members of this section of the forum. The thread's OP made a broad sweeping generalization based on his own personal experience to try and de-legitimize the science-based experimentation of others. Now people are going after someone's sexual habits for some reason.

That's why it's a train wreck.

 

Opinion noted. I agree that it's not very subtle. But calling it an attack goes a little bit too far, in my opinion. I didn't feel attacked, my first thought was that we're dealing with a frustrated person who has tried everything, but was still unable to get rid of acne. Someone who thinks that most things posted here have no scientific basis. That's not even entirely untrue. You do have a point, he made a broad sweeping claim based on personal experience. But he's definitely not the only one. Should all topics be closed, because they're broad sweeping claims, based on personal experience? And well, people going after someone's sexual habits... Personally, I don't think anyone crossed the line. And triton is perfectly well capable of defending himself. Not that he has to, for in the end it's nobody's business what choices he makes. I'm glad his acne is under control, and if he's happy with the way he maintains it: perfect. You don't have to agree, but I hope you understand why the topic isn't closed. We don't discriminate, we love all trains, wrecks or not :P

I love this guy! :D

Spot on with everything you said, especially about the low fat BS we get from marketing

 

Thanks, mate!

Yeah man, really, someone should deal with the food industry, it's high time. Their misleading slogans know no limits. There's a relatively new organization here and in Germany, called Foodwatch. They've already exposed several big companies (and they weren't exactly happy with the negative publicity, to say the least). It's a start.

Quote