I am going to restate this one more time:

• I don't think the current generation of GM foods are ideal or perfected in any way.
• I don't think big corporations should control and patent GM products or (governments for that matter).
• I don't think we should to use any pesticides at all. (We won't have to in the future)
• I DO think that GM foods are the future, and with more research and study, they will be the solution to an ever-growing population.

 

 

You really make no sense. Because you believe that someday there will be companies that will use GM to create crops that actually address real problems rather than cause them, you are all for whatever GM crap they want to grow and sell to us? And you have no problem with any of the other evils such as passing laws that make it illegal to pass any anti-GM laws, even simple things like requiring labels? You are for all the bullying?. All the money influencing our politics?All the lives destroyed?? All the environmental damage? All the pesticide resistant bugs and weeds? All the crap in our water and in our bodies?

Is your head always in the sand (or elsewhere)? Yeah, you keep eating the big corporation controlled, agent orange carrots grown from patented seed.

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The "Massive Con" Causing a Suicide Every 30 Minutes

http://articles.merc...20403_DNL_art_1

 

 

There are four primary factors directly related to the use of genetically engineered seed that contribute heavily to this grim situation:

 

• Compared to traditional seed, genetically engineered seeds are very expensive and have to be repurchased every planting season
• Genetically engineered crops require much more water to grow, have much higher requirements for fertilizer and pesticide, in spite of Monsanto's claims to the contrary^vii and, in spite of their cost to farmers, provide NO increased yield

 

 

 

While companies like

Monsanto have plenty of blood on their hands, additional social, economic and environmental factors make matters worse for these small rural farms:

 

• The "Green Revolution" of the 1960s and 1970s has funneled money toward the middle class and away from the farming/peasant classes
• Rising prices for seeds, fertilizers, pesticides, and other farm supplies, along with falling prices for farm commodities, are forcing farmers to take out high-interest loans from opportunistic moneylenders
• A trend from polyculture farming (diverse crops) to monoculture farming (primarily cotton) has depleted the soil and increased crop infestation by opportunistic pests
• Limited water supplies, periodic drought, decreased monsoonal rainfall, and poor access to irrigation
• Dishonest, predatory salesmen; lack of government support; and grossly inadequate government relief programs

 

 

 

The introduction of hybrid seeds marked the beginning of the current issues plaguing Indian farmers today. Prior to the 1960s and 1970s, Indian farmers grew diverse food crops, but that all changed with the Green Revolution as modern machinery, chemical pesticides and fertilizers, and hybrid seeds were introduced from the West. Most farmers in India now plant cash crops for export, rather than rice, legumes, millet, and other foods for local consumption.

 

 

The last sentence, coupled with water shortages are the reasons for world hunger. Cash crops. Climate Change. And our economic system.

And Big Food is the root of pretty near all evil every way you look at it.

Genetic Engineering Brings Magnitude 10 Dangers

Genetically tinkering with the human food supply what could possibly go wrong? Plenty, as it turns out. The potential dangers of genetically engineered food run the gamut, including:

• Contamination of organic crop varieties
• Development of herbicide-resistant super weeds
• Organ disruption, cancer, and increased rate of miscarriage and infertility in animals raised on genetically engineered feed
• Air and rain samples contaminated with glyphosate, and waterways in agricultural areas contaminated with a genetically engineered bug-killing protein
• A brand new organism related specifically to genetically engineered crops, found to be responsible for disease and sudden death in both plants and mammals
• The potential risks of genetically engineered crops are so enormous that I have devoted an entire segment of Mercola.com to the subject.

 

 

That one article you picked out is Forbes supporting Big Food propoganda.If you would try applying critical thinking skills when you read, you would see that the Monsanto cotton did not perform better in the drought conditions. And the farmers cannot afford to pay for the high-priced seed each year and cannot pay the loans when the crops fail.

GM crops are a path to crushing Debt so bad it makes people commit suicide. Not to success. And not more food.

What I am arguing is that for the immediate future, those big corporations are a necessary evil.

 

I am arguing that with the research funded by Bill Gates, future generations of GM foods will continue to become safer, more productive, essential to sustaining the growing world population.

 

^

Well said

XX

Wake up to reality people. Change doesn't happen without MONEY. If there is no PROFIT to be made, THERE WILL BE NO PROGRESS.

You know all those nice cars you drive? Shoes you wear? Clothes you buy? Cell phones you use? Technology you take for granted???

IT'S ALL PATENTED AND CREATED BY "EVIL" CORPORATIONS WHO USE CHEAP OFFSHORE LABOR TO MAKE A PROFIT.

Don't be naive. And if you're not naive, don't be a hypocrite.

Greed, industrialism, capitalism, and WAR have paved the way for the technological revolution you've enjoyed over past 100 years.

If you all lived the lives of monks, without worldly possessions, cars, modern clothing, or technology. Then I'd respect, if not agree with all your doomsaying.

But if you care so much for these farmers, why don't you donate thousands of your own hard earned dollars to organic farms in third world countries?

Better yet why don't you head out to Africa and help build irrigation systems like my friend in Rwanda so farmers have adequate water for their lands?

No??? Too much of a sacrifice????

WELL CONGRATULATIONS!!! Thanks to modern technology, you can click your mouse and sign a petition that takes three seconds of your time!!!! You now have the right to belittle anyone who dosen't agree with your amazingly idealistic views!!!

All this hypocritical idealism is starting to make me sicker than GM food.

Wake up to reality people. Change doesn't happen without MONEY. If there is no PROFIT to be made, THERE WILL BE NO PROGRESS.

 

You wake up!And think! How do you expect Monsanto or any other for profit company to make a profit on creating crops that simply don't need as much water if they don't patent the seeds, charge high prices for the seeds and the seeds don't require tons of pesticide that the for-profit company makes and sells and is also patented? All things you claim to be against.

1) What Monsanto is doing isn't progress and 2) Universities and other non-profit organizations make progress as well. And that would be the only way any GM crop that actually addresses any need would be created.

The rest of your post is completely invalid ranting like most of your posts. You know nothing about what else any of us do for farmers here or elsewhere. And those buttons don't just sign petitions, they send letters to congressmen, the FDA and elsewhere. Other than voting, that's how a citizen participates in their government.

Also, most irrigation systems do more harm than good in the long run, btw. Culverting or diverting water supplies, which are already likely scarce, can prevent infrequent rainfall from reaching the native plants, increasing the desertification of the area. Increasing hunger and sending more people into the city slums.

I'll say it again. We/They need to stop fighting nature and start working with it. They need to grow crops that are adapted to grow in that ecosystem.

You know nothing about what else any of us do for farmers here or elsewhere.

 

Then please, all of you. Enlighten me. Bring back my faith in humanity.

And those buttons don't just sign petitions, they send letters to congressmen, the FDA and elsewhere. Other than voting, that's how a citizen participates in their government.

 

I thought you were trying to change the world, not be the standard "citizen". Haven't you learned anything from Obama? "Change" isn't as easy as it looks.

Petitions are useless.

Also, most irrigation systems do more harm than good in the long run, btw. Culverting or diverting water supplies, which are already likely scarce, can prevent infrequent rainfall from reaching the native plants, increasing the desertification of the area. Increasing hunger and sending more people into the city slums.

 

How ignorant you are judging my friend who breaks his back every day doing something while you people sit here and spout negative comments.

Not only does he help with irrigation, but he helps supply entire villages with clean water. My dislike of this thread is growing by the minute.

How ignorant you are judging my friend who breaks his back every day doing something while you people sit here and spout negative comments.

Not only does he help with irrigation, but he helps supply entire villages with clean water. My dislike of this thread is growing by the minute.

 

Then go away. But I do hope you occupy your time reading and learning the truth about all this. I mean, you claim to hate everything that Monsanto and the other biotech companies do, yet you are in favor of them. Don't you see the disconnect?

And I didn't judge your friend, I judged irrigation and other alterations of the environment.

And I have limited funds to save the world, but I give it to organizations that do good things like promote urban gardening here and elsewhere in the world, make micro loans and provide a milk goat or egg laying chickens and such to poor families, unlike Bill Gates. And I have gone off and done work projects such as reforesting in the past. And will again. Because reforesting and different farming methods are actually the way to stop desertification. I have also done education projects in Honduras.

And I live a sustainable lifestyle.

I also share information. Real information. Not propaganda.

What are you doing besides supporting evil and spreading their propaganda?

Then go away. But I do hope you start reading and learning the truth about all this.

And I didn't judge your friend, I judged irrigation and other alterations of the environment.

 

So come tell my friend and the lives of the village people he's saved, that the past five years of his life has been spent doing "more harm than good."

I hope someone else opens their eyes and sees how ludicrous this is.

What are you doing besides supporting evil and spreading their propaganda?

 

I am not complaining for one.

Second I donate money to support my friend in Africa every year. Regardless of what you think, I KNOW my money is going somewhere positive and is making a difference because I have firsthand knowledge of what goes on there, and what they have accomplished.

I hope to go there and join him once I receive my medical degree.

I know what little money I can give is being spent dollar for dollar on something good, and yet I don't go around screaming at the top of my lungs that this or that corporation is evil. I focus on helping humans in tangible immediate, and realistic ways.

What are you doing besides supporting evil and spreading their propaganda?

 

I am not complaining for one.

Second I donate money to support my friend in Africa every year. Regardless of what you think, I KNOW my money is going somewhere positive and is making a difference because I have firsthand knowledge of what goes on there, and what they have accomplished.

I hope to go there and join him once I receive my medical degree.

I know what little money I can give is being spent dollar for dollar on something good, and yet I don't go around screaming at the top of my lungs that this or that corporation is evil. I focus on helping humans in tangible immediate, and realistic ways.

 

You are 'screaming at the top of your lungs' in support of evil and spending your money in ways that support evil as you proudly munch on your agent orange carrots.

And those 'tangilbe' 'immediate' and 'realistic' ways you talk about are why we face the problems we face today and why so many issues are coming to a crisis at the same time.

Diverting more water, creating more deserts, spraying more pesticides and destroying more traditional crops are not helping anyone. They are making the problem worse. Everything you do to fight nature is counter-productive.

You are 'screaming at the top of your lungs' in support of evil and spending your money in ways that support evil as you proudly munch on your agent orange carrots.

 

So you don't drive a car? Don't have a cellphone? Don't wear modern clothing? You're not using a computer right now? These products are created overseas in factory conditions that pay unlivable wages.

How do you not see your own hypocrisy here? Why are you judging me for "supporting evil" when you do the same, simply by living your life of relative luxury in the wealthiest nation on Earth.

And those 'tangilbe' 'immediate' and 'realistic' ways you talk about are why we face the problems we face today and why so many issues are coming to a crisis at the same time.

Diverting more water, creating more deserts, spraying more pesticides and destroying more traditional crops are not helping anyone. They are making the problem worse.

 

What is this "problem" you keep speaking of?

It is because of man's ability to bend nature to our will that we have the longest average lifespans and greatest quality of life in the history of humanity.

You are 'screaming at the top of your lungs' in support of evil and spending your money in ways that support evil as you proudly munch on your agent orange carrots.

 

So you don't drive a car? Don't have a cellphone? Don't wear modern clothing? You're not using a computer right now? These products are created overseas in factory conditions that pay unlivable wages.

How do you not see your own hypocrisy here? Why are you judging me for "supporting evil" when you do the same, simply by living your life of relative luxury in the wealthiest nation on Earth.

I am not the hypocrit here. As I've already said, I live a very sustainable lifestyle. I shop resale. Use a notebook that uses little power and turn everything off when not in use. I use very little electricity. I have driven the most economical cars for decades. Drive as little as possible and in methods that conserve as much gasoline as possible. My cell phone was purchased refurbished and would be several years old if my last one wasn't stolen. I can't help it that there is so little available now that wasn't made by low paid workers. So, I just buy as little of it as possible and keep it for as long as possible.

And I am contemplating ways to leave this hypocrite country and find the least impacted place in the world where there might be something of value for me to do with my skills and talents.

And those 'tangilbe' 'immediate' and 'realistic' ways you talk about are why we face the problems we face today and why so many issues are coming to a crisis at the same time.

Diverting more water, creating more deserts, spraying more pesticides and destroying more traditional crops are not helping anyone. They are making the problem worse.

 

What is this "problem" you keep speaking of?

It is because of man's ability to bend nature to our will that we have the longest average lifespans and greatest quality of life in the history of humanity.

 

Yes. But everything we've done is now reaching a crisis point. The quality of those lifespans is deteriorating. We have to stop. And we are intelligent enough to find ways to work with nature rather than against it. Pull your head out.

And I can't help but notice how you don't ever respond to any logic. You didn't answer my question on just how you think Monsanto will earn a profit without doing all the evil you claim you are opposed to even as you support it.

I shop resale. Use a notebook that uses little power and turn everything off when not in use. I use very little electricity. I have driven the most economical cars for decades. Drive as little as possible and in methods that conserve as much gasoline as possible. My cell phone was purchased refurbished and would be several years old if my last one wasn't stolen.

And I am contemplating ways to leave here and find the least impacted place in the world where there might be something of value for me to do with my skills and talents.

 

This is my response, courtesy of George Carlin:

I agree with his basic point. Don't be so arrogant that you think you can change the nature of man, or the world. Man IS natural, and therefore anything we can do to the planet is no more unnatural than a beaver diverting a river by building a dam.

Just do something tangible and immediate to help your fellow man.

And those 'tangilbe' 'immediate' and 'realistic' ways you talk about are why we face the problems we face today and why so many issues are coming to a crisis at the same time.

Diverting more water, creating more deserts, spraying more pesticides and destroying more traditional crops are not helping anyone. They are making the problem worse.

 

What is this "problem" you keep speaking of?

It is because of man's ability to bend nature to our will that we have the longest average lifespans and greatest quality of life in the history of humanity.

 

You know. I can't believe you just wrote that. It's mind boggling. You aren't aware of all the issues coming to a head? Climate change? Peak oil and water? Over population? Our sickly culture? Our stupid sick care system? Antibiotic resistant superbugs? deadlier versions of microbes that should be benign like e coli? Pesticide resistant insects and other pests? The loss of all the wildlife that naturally controlled those pests? It goes on and on. Your head really is stuck up somewhere.

Right now, cars are a necessity. And strides are being made to make them more eco friendly. The automotive world is actually listening to what people are saying about making cars greener. Right now, cell phones, computers, and clothing ARE what we call a necessary evil, cause there aren't greener/safer options. But if the manufacturers of these products start listening to the public outcry for greener electronics, (just as the automotive industry is doing) then there is hope for a more eco friendly future.

GMO foods and Monsanto are not a necessary evil. And they are covering up/altering studies in place of listening to public outcry. There have been, (as in before GMO foods) and still are non GMO foods readily available. In other words, we have a choice. This "advance" in the growing of crops is a step in the wrong direction. And a step towards taking our right to non GMO food away. And it is fueled by greed and desire for power.

Tritonxiv you are here defending yourself and something you should not be defending, which is the support of Monsanto GMO crops and all the devastation they are creating. You should actually listen and think critically about this and stop being so defensive. Really and truly research this. If you still feel the way you do, then that is your choice, and one that i do not condone, but at least look at this problem objectively

Just do something tangible and immediate to help your fellow man.

 

That is exactly what I do. I can't watch the video. the sound card is out on my old notebook computer. Besides, odds are good that it isn't relevant.

Right now, cars are a necessity. And strides are being made to make them more eco friendly. The automotive world is actually listening to what people are saying about making cars greener. Right now, cell phones, computers, and clothing ARE what we call a necessary evil, cause there aren't greener/safer options. But if the manufacturers of these products start listening to the public outcry for greener electronics, (just as the automotive industry is doing) then there is hope for a more eco friendly future.

Yeah, but unfortunately that can be temporary. We had more economical cars in the past under Clinton. Then the fuel economy restrictions were removed and the gas guzzlers returned and people bought them. And even now while everyone complains about gas prices, I still see them driving round and round in the parking lot looking for the closest possible parking space. Sitting in cars idling with the AC on. Racing past me as I coast up to the red light. Last year while people were sending me petitions and letters about boycotting BP, I would still be the only one in the supermarket that brought my own bags. Other than at places like Whole Foods.

Unfortunately, most people are exactly what Mayor Quimby said: 'A bunch of fickle mush heads.' That's why you have to keep telling people about the issues. They forget.

You should actually listen and think critically about this and stop being so defensive. Really and truly research this. If you still feel the way you do, then that is your choice, and one that i do not condone, but at least look at this problem objectively

 

Critical thinking and objectivity seem to be lacking.

Exactly, our idea of immediate is different than yours. Your immediate solution is going to cause long term damage to health, and does nothing to fight Monsanto's desire for food domination/lack of care for human life.

Our idea of immediate is to get this information to the public so that we can make our voices heard and stop this company before they get out of control. Sometimes immediate action such as yours causes unwanted long term effects, and this is what you are not understanding. Again, it is a nice sentiment that you want to provide food for the hungry. But it's not good enough to hand them food that we know will cause them permanent damage to their health.

Please, please read the articles in this thread and actually think about this constructively

The irony in this thread has reached it's apex.

You all appear to be passionate about this. So I sincerely hope you all get out of the house and do something about these problems other than talk, ponder, and trade online petitions to make yourselves feel better.

I sincerely hope this. But somehow, I doubt any of you will ever step up and prove me wrong.

In the end it dosen't matter. The doers (not you) will make the decisions, and the spectators (you) will worry, complain, and write their congressman. This is how it has always been.

Cheers.

The irony in this thread has reached it's apex.

This thread has not. Your contributions (and I use that word ironically) to it, however, have. A long time ago. In another thread in fact.

You all appear to be passionate about this. So I sincerely hope you all get out of the house and do something about these problems other than talk, ponder, and trade online petitions to make yourselves feel better.

I sincerely hope this. But somehow, I doubt any of you will ever step up and prove me wrong.

In the end it dosen't matter. The doers (not you) will make the decisions, and the spectators (you) will worry, complain, and write their congressman. This is how it has always been.

Cheers.

 

I've no idea what gave you the idea that all any of us do is write our congressman. It must be all that jumping to the wrong conclusions and making wrong assumptions that you do.

Still can't help but notice how you never respond to any facts or logic.The facts prove you wrong. That must be why.

But I do agree with one thing. I do hope that everyone pursues careers and make life and purchasing decisions that promote sustainability and limit harm. If you are an entrepreneur type then start a green business. If you are an educator then educate. If you are an inventor, invent real sustainable solutions. Id you want to go into law, go into environmental law.

Renewable energy is the future, not oil and gas. And you better take care of your own health by eating and living right. You don't want to be a victim of our terrible 'health' care system.

War, greed, all that you are supporting that huh? What we have gotten now, the car, the cellphone and all that you speak of, wouldn't have been possible without the sacrifice of our mother nature and the happiness and peaceful of others.

What is life without happiness and health? Material based objects don't make up happiness, thats true in so many levels. People in USA are suffering from a lot of cancers and diseases compared to some asian countries. Some poor and underdeveloped asian countries are perhaps the ones with least diseases and cancers from all the toxicity that has polluted and killed the mother nature.

We don't need Genetic Engineering, that can't be entirely understood if you think in a materialistic way, not spiritual way. I used to think very materialistic too and thought technology was the best but I am now more spirituality aware. I don't want to include spirituality but for the sake of this thread I must.

Nature itself is perfect, perfect in every way. It knows the best, it is always changing for always the best. Look at how evolution even happens, we don't really even know how evolution is so super smart and how it perfectly arranges and changes things for perfect balance. It's already perfect, its suited only for us, we don't need GE for that.

We are trying to improve what is already magnificent and amazing, but we fail because nature itself always knows the best.

Would you rather risk happiness, peace, pure health and nature's balance for technology and money?

Because it was suggested that I must be a heartless ass or something to suggest that building irrigation systems in Africa wasn't the best thing to do as it increases desertification, here's some info on better ways to harvest rainwater without diverting it from other places and people:

 

 

What I find consistent in surviving ancient water-harvesting systems is their beauty and the incredible quality of work. What I am most drawn to is the example set by ancient dryland cultures who strove to harvest and enhance their local waters, their local rainwater, and their local runoff, all while living within the limits of their local waters in a way that enhanced their watershed community without draining and degrading others. We today have much to learn from that.

 

 

 

 

These ancient water-harvesting systems typically deposit rainwater into the watershed, which in turn tends to feedaquifers, springs, creeks, and rivers. So over time there is more water. More cycles in the hydrologic cycle, with gravitypowering the system.

 

 

 

 

 

Modern pumped and piped water systems typically extract water from the watershed, which in turn often drains aquifers, springs, creeks and rivers. So over time there is less water. Fewer cycles in the hydrologic cycle, with fossil fuels powering the system.

 

 

 

Genetically modified salmon just hit the market today

The irony in this thread has reached it's apex.

You all appear to be passionate about this. So I sincerely hope you all get out of the house and do something about these problems other than talk, ponder, and trade online petitions to make yourselves feel better.

I sincerely hope this. But somehow, I doubt any of you will ever step up and prove me wrong.

In the end it dosen't matter. The doers (not you) will make the decisions, and the spectators (you) will worry, complain, and write their congressman. This is how it has always been.

Cheers.

 

Making the right individual choices is the most powerful thing a person can do. I don't like people downplaying this, it's everything. Despite delusions of grandeur, you only control yourself.

Expecting someone (or yourself) to save the world single-handedly is not going to get anything done and only drive you to insanity and drive others away. Lead by example.

It seems like Vermont is having success in getting their bill passed, which would make it mandatory to label all GMO's as such

http://vtdigger.org/2012/04/12/scores-testify-in-favor-of-ge-food-labeling-bill/