Also, I don't know or care whether adrenal exhaustion exists, but adrenal health is very important to hormones.
Anyone who is here to help acne sufferers should care about adrenal fatigue's existence or any other disease for that matter.
That's just ridiculous. Adrenal fatigue isn't widely recognized as a disease because they don't have a test for it, and so until something shows up on a test, nothing is wrong with your adrenal glands. There's nothing I can do about that. But they don't have clinical measurable test for depression, yet they have no problem diagnosing it and prescribing antidepressants.
Also, other organs wear out. Working in overdrive to produce insulin in insulin resistant people causes your pancreas to wear out and stop producing insulin. Why would it not be true of adrenals and cortisol?
But proper well functioning adrenal glands, thyroid glands, liver, digestive tract, etc, absolutely do affect acne and everything else to do with health and I've no doubt that most people have been seriously hampering their function with their habits. They need nutrients to function. They need proper sleep to function. They need you to move around. they need you to not feed them harmful amounts of crap like added sugar and trans fats that they have to struggle to deal with.
And like i said before, whether or not anyone's adrenals are going to wear out, they need the nutrients, sleep and stress managing habits to function at their best. And that was all that was talked about in this thread. There were no 'scum' lying to anyone about any sham cures here.
While orthorexia nervosa is not a medically recognized mental disease at the moment, that doesn't mean that it won't be in the future. One of the reasons it isn't recognized at the moment is the diagnostic criteria hasn't been totally fleshed out. Another reason is nobody knows the prevalence and pathology of it. In short, scientists don't know enough yet, but there is an interest in this disorder.
Can't we just as easily substitute adrenal fatigue there?
As I've said before, it's fine as long as pharmaceutical companies fund research if they have high-quality research and disclose their source of funding. It is possible for pharmaceutical companies to do that, as prescriptions/drugs have been proven to work and are part of standard care due to some of this research like statins.
Actually, they recently, after decades of use, decided that statins don't 'help' but impairing your body's ability to make cholesterol (by blocking an enzyme that does other things. Important things). It works by being anti-inflammatory. Which is why they now want everyone to take it as a preventative and advertise so on TV. They are the scum.
And there have been many, many drugs on the market that were supposedly proven to work and be safe that were later recalled after causing serious harm. And on top of that, actual misconduct accounts for the majority of retractions. Not simple human error, but actual fraud and other misconduct. Also, not all research ever gets published. You can bet that big pharma never publishes any research that has undesirable findings regarding their products.
read up
To hard to reply to specifics on an ipad. I'll edit tomorrow, maybe. But 1 your doctor is definitely an exception. I didn't say there weren't doctors capable of thought and doing their reading besides what they were indoctrinated in med school.There just aren't many. You are lucky.
2) of course genetics play a role.?? They are obviously the difference between those of us who can eat whatever they want and have clear and those of us who break out. Genes have been identified. By scientists. Naive posted about them. Many times.
3) you know full well that in any thread where someone declares that one thing like oranges causes cystic acne I would and always do reply that that is an individual and likely reaction due to a food intolerance. And that the thing to do is try avoiding them for a period to test to see if you notice an improvement. And oranges absolutely do cause me to break out in cysts.
3) what little Michelle has said about adrenals is just arguing semantics. (Hallelujah??) The rest is crazy stuff about homeopathic marketers. And I would think you'd be insulted by her implication that moderators allowed this board to be filled with these marketers preying on the gullible.
And on that note, I'm offended as well as puzzled by your implication that Michelle has a refreshing scientific perspective otherwise lacking here in deja's thread. Thousands and thousands of scientific studies have been posted here.
Conventional medicine is so clearly failing us. The amount of pharmaceuticals Americans take is staggering, yet we are an incredibly sickly people riddled with lifestyle caused diseases. And we can control a great deal with diet and lifestyle.
Let me start by saying that I didn't mean to offend you in any way in deja's thread, it never even crossed my mind. I posted there for deja, not for others. You know I've thanked you more than once for the research you've posted. Not all research is definite proof though, many studies are preliminary and/or of bad quality, you can't draw conclusions from them.
OK,
1. At least we've cleared that up, not all doctors are evil. In fact, I don't know any doctor who is, they're doing what they believe is right, based on science, not anecdotes. I'd like to add that most scientists aren't evil either. I know a couple of them, they're in it because they're passionate about finding cures, not because they deliberately want to harm people. Maybe it's your system that's completely messed up, not so much the people working in it. They do what your system allows them to do. Like you said that pharmaceuticals can advertise their drugs. I assume you mean prescription drugs. That's just plain stupid and definitely not allowed here (nor would it make any sense, because it's your doc who should decide on what to prescribe, not a pharmaceutical company, their ties have been cut here a long time ago).
2. All genes playing a role in your skin have been identified? That's definitely news to me. Would you mind linking me to those posts?
3. Exactly, that's what I was saying. I wasn't questioning you, but I see how you could have misread it.
4. "little" is completely unnecessary and condescending, exactly what I was saying about the high horse/hostile attitude that rules this forum and that I'm pretty much fed up with. I'm not offended at all, I see where she comes from and I appreciate her concerns for people's health. Just like I appreciate everybody else's input, whether or not I agree with it.
I wouldn't say that conventional medicine is failing you, people are failing themselves, that's where it always starts. That doesn't mean that even the most health-conscious people will never have to revert to conventional medicine.
???? Ah, I missed this response
1) Who said they were evil. I said the average doctor wasn't very good. And of course the problem is the system. Our healthcare system is a product of our profit-is-everything philosophy.
You are lucky you live in the Netherlands, but as such, your experiences have very little to do with those of the majority of posters here.
2) i said genes as have been identified. Not all genes. Some. And here you go: http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php/topic/298123-genes-involved-in-acne/
3. Ok, then I don't get your point. The orange analogy might make some sense if this was a thread about how we all have adrenal fatigue, but since not one person participating here said anything remotely like that. Except that once again you seem to be arguing things I never said like the doctors are evil thing
4) I don't understand that one either. I said little because the majority of her posts have been about marketers of homeopathic.. whatever. I still don't get what it is she thought was happening.
And finally, Of course people are failing themselves. Because they are blindly believing whatever our doctors and big pharma tell them.
1) Who said they were evil. I said the average doctor wasn't very good. And of course the problem is the system. Our healthcare system is a product of our profit-is-everything philosophy.
Indeed, and that also applies to businesses in the holistic field, many of them are in it for the same reason and they can do just as much if not more harm, since they don't have to prove anything at all. And the image of being œall-natural, blue skies, green meadows and happy, little lambs they spread, makes people believe they™re actually doing something good for their body, while they may be destroying it.
You are lucky you live in the Netherlands, but as such, your experiences have very little to do with those of the majority of posters here.
Haha, I™m not sure if I™m that lucky according to most Americans, since we have required healthcare insurance here. Apart from that, the system isn't that different, except we have more regulations in place, especially to prevent pharmaceuticals from advertising prescription drugs and we've cut their ties with doctors and pharmacies. It's still far from perfect, though.
2) i said genes as have been identified. Not all genes. Some. And here you go: http://www.acne.org/...volved-in-acne/
I said that we don't know what most of them do for the skin, you replied with "Genes have been identified", I assumed you meant all genes, so obviously I˜ve misread you there, since we agree. Thanks for the link, I™ve already checked it some time ago 
3. Ok, then I don't get your point. The orange analogy might make some sense if this was a thread about how we all have adrenal fatigue, but since not one person participating here said anything remotely like that. Except that once again you seem to be arguing things I never said like the doctors are evil thing
The orange analogy was in response to your œdoctors know nothing about diet (even if they did, who could have suspected that oranges were to blame for the biggest part, they™re considered healthy) as well as this adrenal fatigue with all its vague symptoms that apply to almost everybody at any given time. Several people said it™s real, some have a feeling that this is what they're suffering from, some even take supplements. Also, we don™t know who else reads this, the vast majority are people without an account. And your posts about big pharma and doctors didn't exactly give me the impression that you think they're doing a good job. Which of course is fine, since you have had bad experiences with them. In general, your posts about pharmaceuticals, doctors etc. aren't positive, they're pretty much generalizing, there's little room for interpretation, hence the œevil, but maybe that should be œbad.
4) I don't understand that one either. I said little because the majority of her posts have been about marketers of homeopathic.. whatever. I still don't get what it is she thought was happening.
Nah, sorry, but you said "little Michelle", that™s very condescending. Others did a good job at insulting her as well. She was explaining why she was here (after her earlier arguments were skillfully ignored), you're putting way too much emphasis on this marketing/homeopathy. Let me quote you:
???? Ok. That would be a bad thing. If it happened more than once in a blue moon around here. And when it does, people report it. The thread is usually closed promptly.So, I repeat once again. Why are you ranting about that here? Find an instance where it is occurring and post there.
Big pharma, big ag, doctors, I've haven't seen them in this forum. Yet you rant about them regularly. With good intentions, just like Michelle.
And finally, Of course people are failing themselves. Because they are blindly believing whatever our doctors and big pharma tell them.
Exactly, but that™s not restricted to people who firmly believe in mainstream medicine. People here have the same problem with diseases and œcures that do not exist. If at least one of the vague symptoms would apply to them, they might blindly believe it.
That's just ridiculous. Adrenal fatigue isn't widely recognized as a disease because they don't have a test for it, and so until something shows up on a test, nothing is wrong with your adrenal glands. There's nothing I can do about that. But they don't have clinical measurable test for depression, yet they have no problem diagnosing it and prescribing antidepressants.
Also, other organs wear out. Working in overdrive to produce insulin in insulin resistant people causes your pancreas to wear out and stop producing insulin. Why would it not be true of adrenals and cortisol?
Shouldn't stimulation tests be enough to see whether or not adrenal glands are able to produce enough hormones? As for depression, you're comparing a neurological disorder with organ malfunctioning. When it comes to the brain, science is nowhere near as advanced yet and I don't think it will be in our lifetime. I do believe that medications are often prescribed when there may be other ways to treat or prevent depression, but I don't know since I'm not a psychiatrist and even if I was, I don't know these people. It™s the same for other mental disorders, like ADHD, how many young kids are on meds like Ritalin nowadays? I never heard of it when I was a kid, it™s like an epidemic.
Actually, they recently, after decades of use, decided that statins don't 'help' but impairing your body's ability to make cholesterol (by blocking an enzyme that does other things. Important things). It works by being anti-inflammatory. Which is why they now want everyone to take it as a preventative and advertise so on TV.They are the scum.
That has been a known fact for as long as I remember, it's why doctors should only prescribe statins when necessary. I totally agree that advertisements to take them as a preventative is idiotic. In that respect, yes, they™re scums in my book as well, but can you really blame them? They™re businesses, if they™re allowed to advertise prescription drugs, they will.
And there have been many, many drugs on the market that were supposedly proven to work and be safe that were later recalled after causing serious harm. And on top of that, actual misconduct accounts for the majority of retractions. Not simple human error, but actual fraud and other misconduct. Also, not all research ever gets published. You can bet that big pharma never publishes any research that has undesirable findings regarding their products.
read up
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23027971
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1182327/
Obviously, falsifying studies is quite disturbing, it is of all times and it happens way too often. The good thing is, there™s increasing interest in fighting fraud, hopefully leading to better standards and regulations to try and prevent it as much as possible. What if x% of the studies posted here are fraudulent? How would we know? With regards to adrenal fatigue, if this really existed, don™t you think a pharmaceutical would have fabricated some medication by now? If 80% of the people suffer from it, it™s a huge market, probably the biggest ever.
Happy New Year, everybody! 
^ I did not say 'little Michelle'. I said 'what little Michelle said'. As in the amount of things she said. What little she said. I was not referring to the size or age or anything else about Michelle.
And I still don't know why we are talking about holistic businesses No one has said anything about such things except you and Michelle. I recommend people save their money for quality food, which became pretty hard to find over the last several decades and is only beginning to improve.
As for stimulation tests, I don't know. Do they stimulate your pancreas when diagnosing diabetes? I don't think so. They check your blood for glucose and do an A1C. A great deal of conditions are diagnosed by symptoms and circumstantial evidence.
That's just ridiculous. Adrenal fatigue isn't widely recognized as a disease because they don't have a test for it, and so until something shows up on a test, nothing is wrong with your adrenal glands. There's nothing I can do about that. But they don't have clinical measurable test for depression, yet they have no problem diagnosing it and prescribing antidepressants.
"Adrenal fatigue" isnt widely recognized because its inherently contradictory.
Proponents claim that adrenal fatigue is a serious, widespread disease yet by definition its so mild a doctor cant diagnose it. So how do they know its there? Especially considering the vague and nonspecific set of symptoms that can apply to anyone at any given time.
Depression can be "measured" in the sense hypothyroidism and hypoandrogenism causes it (and some medications). There is no simple blood test or brain scan yet because the biology of depression involves the brain and they're still trying to figure out what specific mutations are involved. However, doctors do screen patients and take their family history, current medications/diseases and life events into account and figure the best course of action. Some it may be they just need to see a therapist, others a combination of therapy and medication.
Also, other organs wear out. Working in overdrive to produce insulin in insulin resistant people causes your pancreas to wear out and stop producing insulin. Why would it not be true of adrenals and cortisol?
But proper well functioning adrenal glands, thyroid glands, liver, digestive tract, etc, absolutely do affect acne and everything else to do with health and I've no doubt that most people have been seriously hampering their function with their habits. They need nutrients to function. They need proper sleep to function. They need you to move around. they need you to not feed them harmful amounts of crap like added sugar and trans fats that they have to struggle to deal with.
And like i said before, whether or not anyone's adrenals are going to wear out, they need the nutrients, sleep and stress managing habits to function at their best. And that was all that was talked about in this thread. There were no 'scum' lying to anyone about any sham cures here.
While orthorexia nervosa is not a medically recognized mental disease at the moment, that doesn't mean that it won't be in the future. One of the reasons it isn't recognized at the moment is the diagnostic criteria hasn't been totally fleshed out. Another reason is nobody knows the prevalence and pathology of it. In short, scientists don't know enough yet, but there is an interest in this disorder.
Can't we just as easily substitute adrenal fatigue there?
No, because "adrenal fatigue" is inherently contradictory while orthorexia nervosa isn't. Even if "adrenal fatigue" wasn't, it would still not enter medical textbooks as a recognized disease because it would still be in the hypothesis stage. But many proponents are saying "adrenal fatigue" exists as an irrefutable legitimate disease anyway. Promoting fake diseases is not the way to go if people want others to eat healthier and switch to better lifestyles.
Actually, they recently, after decades of use, decided that statins don't 'help' but impairing your body's ability to make cholesterol (by blocking an enzyme that does other things. Important things). It works by being anti-inflammatory. Which is why they now want everyone to take it as a preventative and advertise so on TV.They are the scum.
And there have been many, many drugs on the market that were supposedly proven to work and be safe that were later recalled after causing serious harm. And on top of that, actual misconduct accounts for the majority of retractions. Not simple human error, but actual fraud and other misconduct. Also, not all research ever gets published. You can bet that big pharma never publishes any research that has undesirable findings regarding their products.
read up
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23027971
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1182327/
Are you saying that statins aren't HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors like scientists thought for decades and are only anti-inflammatories, or did scientists recently discover that they are HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors? If the latter, scientists have known that since the 70s, with human data confirming it in the 80s. If the former, they're "indirect" anti-inflammatories because it can reduce levels of C-reactive protein levels which high levels are common in obese patients (paraphrasing here).
I haven't seen a statin TV commercial for a long time, so I can't really comment about them advertising that "everyone" should take them (or in patients who aren't otherwise at high risk for CVD and/or high cholesterol). I know some scientists have investigated/talked about statins for rheumatoid arthritis and Alzheimer's, but they aren't officially used for those diseases. Were the commercials aired in late 2012?
I'm well aware of those two papers (also the criticisms of the second paper and the discussions about it), including the fraud that happens in "Big Pharma" and "holistic health/alternative medicine". Are you implying that "alternative medicine" is therefore immune or highly resistant to misconduct/research fraud and it's based on good science whereas "Big Pharma" isn't?
^ I did not say 'little Michelle'. I said 'what little Michelle said'. As in the amount of things she said. What little she said. I was not referring to the size or age or anything else about Michelle.
OK, I feel like a dork now... I owe you an apology, I read it as a humiliating remark, after others had already done a pretty good job at that.
And I still don't know why we are talking about holistic businesses No one has said anything about such things except you and Michelle. I recommend people save their money for quality food, which became pretty hard to find over the last several decades and is only beginning to improve.
Supplement recommendations, book recommendations, test kits, links to (holistic) doctors selling books and/or supplements, there are several of them on the first pages. I agree that people shouldn't waste their money on them.
As for stimulation tests, I don't know. Do they stimulate your pancreas when diagnosing diabetes? I don't think so. They check your blood for glucose and do an A1C. A great deal of conditions are diagnosed by symptoms and circumstantial evidence.
True, but that's a completely different disease (and a proven one, I might add), pancreas still produce enough insulin in many type 2 diabetes patients, a stimulation test wouldn't reveal anything. Stimulation tests for adrenals are used to see how they perform. If they're worn out and physically unable to produce enough hormones (which is what this whole theory is about), a stimulation test would show it. Yet it doesn't? And a saliva test (a little less accurate than a serum test) would? Makes no sense, not to me at least.
Oh well, whatever people want to believe, I guess.
