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QuoteQUOTE(someoneintheuk @ Mar 12 2007, 03:06 PM)
QUOTE
After your body has enough gla, it converts it directly back into Arachidonic acid.
can you please show me the source of this data. Ive done extensive research into PGE's and GLA and have never found anything that states that there is a limit to the GLA you can use, or that if there was it would convert excess GLA into AA.
In fact I dont think GLA can even convert into AA. Only LA and DGLA can.
From the university of maryland
[Link Removed]
Doses of GLA greater than 3,000 mg per day should be avoided because, at that point, production of AA (rather than DGLA) may increase.
Linoleic acid (LA), another omega-6 fatty acid, is found in cooking oils and processed foods and converted to GLA in the body. GLA is then broken down to arachidonic acid (AA) and/or another substance called dihomogamma-liolenic acid (DGLA). AA can also be consumed directly from meat, and GLA is available directly from evening primrose oil (EPO), black currant seed oil, and borage oil. Most of these oils also contain some linoleic acid.
Much of the GLA taken from the oils mentioned or as a supplement is not converted to AA, but rather to DGLA. DGLA competes with AA and prevents the negative inflammatory effects that AA would otherwise cause in the body. Having adequate amounts of certain nutrients in the body (including magnesium, zinc, and vitamins C, B3, and B6) helps to promote the conversion of GLA to DGLA rather than AA.
so i guess the risk isnt as bad as i thought but the statement i made is still true.
Mainly the things ive read are suggesting that massive gla supplementation is for older adults that dont make much gla anymore. Or people with vitamin defieciencys. My opinion is there is a stronger case for treating your acne with massive fish oil intake then there is for gla intake thats why i say just do a little gla for a month but focus on fish oil.
But now i have a feeling gla may be more important for women and acne. But still not better then fish oil.
hope this helps.
thanks for your reply.
Ive researched long and hard and the only way GLA can turn into AA is by turning into DGLA first. At the DGLA stage it can go either two ways; PGE1 or AA. Its most likely to go PGE1.
By taking eve prim or borage there is more LA than GLA in them. And LA can turn into AA. Thats where the main risk comes from by taking a supplement like eve prim or borage.
I disagree with the statement that fish oil is more important for people with acne. Ive tried it in the past with not much difference to my acne. GLA has ended my acne problem completely.
someoneintheuk said:QuoteQUOTE(someoneintheuk @ Mar 12 2007, 03:06 PM)
QUOTE
After your body has enough gla, it converts it directly back into Arachidonic acid.
can you please show me the source of this data. Ive done extensive research into PGE's and GLA and have never found anything that states that there is a limit to the GLA you can use, or that if there was it would convert excess GLA into AA.
In fact I dont think GLA can even convert into AA. Only LA and DGLA can.
From the university of maryland
[Link Removed]
Doses of GLA greater than 3,000 mg per day should be avoided because, at that point, production of AA (rather than DGLA) may increase.
Linoleic acid (LA), another omega-6 fatty acid, is found in cooking oils and processed foods and converted to GLA in the body. GLA is then broken down to arachidonic acid (AA) and/or another substance called dihomogamma-liolenic acid (DGLA). AA can also be consumed directly from meat, and GLA is available directly from evening primrose oil (EPO), black currant seed oil, and borage oil. Most of these oils also contain some linoleic acid.
Much of the GLA taken from the oils mentioned or as a supplement is not converted to AA, but rather to DGLA. DGLA competes with AA and prevents the negative inflammatory effects that AA would otherwise cause in the body. Having adequate amounts of certain nutrients in the body (including magnesium, zinc, and vitamins C, B3, and B6) helps to promote the conversion of GLA to DGLA rather than AA.
so i guess the risk isnt as bad as i thought but the statement i made is still true.
Mainly the things ive read are suggesting that massive gla supplementation is for older adults that dont make much gla anymore. Or people with vitamin defieciencys. My opinion is there is a stronger case for treating your acne with massive fish oil intake then there is for gla intake thats why i say just do a little gla for a month but focus on fish oil.
But now i have a feeling gla may be more important for women and acne. But still not better then fish oil.
hope this helps.
thanks for your reply.
Ive researched long and hard and the only way GLA can turn into AA is by turning into DGLA first. At the DGLA stage it can go either two ways; PGE1 or AA. Its most likely to go PGE1.
By taking eve prim or borage there is more LA than GLA in them. And LA can turn into AA. Thats where the main risk comes from by taking a supplement like eve prim or borage.
I disagree with the statement that fish oil is more important for people with acne. Ive tried it in the past with not much difference to my acne. GLA has ended my acne problem completely.
theoretically of course.
In theory fish oil has a lot going for it and has far more research done into it than GLA. in practice as well i noticed having more energy and felt more healthy in general, as well as my hair and nails growing at a faster than normal speed and being more healthy looking and stronger. fish oil is certainly important and healthy. i just didnt find a major clearing of my skin with it, although it does have a part to play in clearing acne via hormonal manipulation.
The importance of GLA/PGE1 becomes especially important in light of the D6D and D5D situation of acne sufferers.
anyone who wants my ebook on the subject pm me. 
In theory fish oil has a lot going for it and has far more research done into it than GLA. in practice as well i noticed having more energy and felt more healthy in general, as well as my hair and nails growing at a faster than normal speed and being more healthy looking and stronger. fish oil is certainly important and healthy. i just didnt find a major clearing of my skin with it, although it does have a part to play in clearing acne via hormonal manipulation.
The importance of GLA/PGE1 becomes especially important in light of the D6D and D5D situation of acne sufferers.
anyone who wants my ebook on the subject pm me.
In theory fish oil has a lot going for it and has far more research done into it than GLA. in practice as well i noticed having more energy and felt more healthy in general, as well as my hair and nails growing at a faster than normal speed and being more healthy looking and stronger. fish oil is certainly important and healthy. i just didnt find a major clearing of my skin with it, although it does have a part to play in clearing acne via hormonal manipulation.
The importance of GLA/PGE1 becomes especially important in light of the D6D and D5D situation of acne sufferers.
anyone who wants my ebook on the subject pm me.
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...c=78409&hl=
What happened with the zinc, did it continue working?
What happened with the zinc, did it continue working?
This was my conclusion at the time, 9 months ago:
'The way i see it at the moment these have been the most effective treatments for my skin in my acne history (in no particular order of importance):
1. antibiotics_ a brilliant antibacterial treatment but only temporarily effective (3 months)
2. excessive sunbathing_ great when i go on holiday but i live in England- Fuck!
3. fasting & cleasning diet_ cant live on this diet and have a normal active life at the same time but it does clear skin well
4. excessive zinc_expensive but works very effectively, not quite as good as antibiotics (when they worked), also, need to be fairly careful with diet and zinc inhibitors
5. chromium_ very good results, about the same as zinc and allows a bit more leniency in terms of food intake, blood sugar levels an interesting element of acne. Will be trying other blood sugar remedies soon
6. NAC_ an antioxidant, worked extremely well, nearly as good as antibiotics, but sadly even more temporarily effective.'
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...t&p=1200162
I wouldnt recommend any of those options when compared to GLA-PGE1. Zinc in excessive amounts can make you nauesous.
Chromium and vitamin c is very good and kept me mostly clear over the summer, although i did have to watch my GI intake as well. a couple of people with adult acne cleared up after trying chromium and vit c from reading my posts. however, towards the end of the summer it became less and less effective (the sun went out, which has always made a difference to my skin (give me an hour or two of sunshine everyday and my acne turns from moderate to mild.)
after trying neem, both as soap (very drying) and capsules I moved toward GLA.
What happened with the zinc, did it continue working?
This was my conclusion at the time, 9 months ago:
'The way i see it at the moment these have been the most effective treatments for my skin in my acne history (in no particular order of importance):
1. antibiotics_ a brilliant antibacterial treatment but only temporarily effective (3 months)
2. excessive sunbathing_ great when i go on holiday but i live in England- Fuck!
3. fasting & cleasning diet_ cant live on this diet and have a normal active life at the same time but it does clear skin well
4. excessive zinc_expensive but works very effectively, not quite as good as antibiotics (when they worked), also, need to be fairly careful with diet and zinc inhibitors
5. chromium_ very good results, about the same as zinc and allows a bit more leniency in terms of food intake, blood sugar levels an interesting element of acne. Will be trying other blood sugar remedies soon
6. NAC_ an antioxidant, worked extremely well, nearly as good as antibiotics, but sadly even more temporarily effective.'
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...t&p=1200162
I wouldnt recommend any of those options when compared to GLA-PGE1. Zinc in excessive amounts can make you nauesous.
Chromium and vitamin c is very good and kept me mostly clear over the summer, although i did have to watch my GI intake as well. a couple of people with adult acne cleared up after trying chromium and vit c from reading my posts. however, towards the end of the summer it became less and less effective (the sun went out, which has always made a difference to my skin (give me an hour or two of sunshine everyday and my acne turns from moderate to mild.)
after trying neem, both as soap (very drying) and capsules I moved toward GLA.
nice summary, makes sense.
how much chromium and vitamin c did you take? ive heard of people getting clear on vitamin c.
What happened with the zinc, did it continue working?
This was my conclusion at the time, 9 months ago:
'The way i see it at the moment these have been the most effective treatments for my skin in my acne history (in no particular order of importance):
1. antibiotics_ a brilliant antibacterial treatment but only temporarily effective (3 months)
2. excessive sunbathing_ great when i go on holiday but i live in England- Fuck!
3. fasting & cleasning diet_ cant live on this diet and have a normal active life at the same time but it does clear skin well
4. excessive zinc_expensive but works very effectively, not quite as good as antibiotics (when they worked), also, need to be fairly careful with diet and zinc inhibitors
5. chromium_ very good results, about the same as zinc and allows a bit more leniency in terms of food intake, blood sugar levels an interesting element of acne. Will be trying other blood sugar remedies soon
6. NAC_ an antioxidant, worked extremely well, nearly as good as antibiotics, but sadly even more temporarily effective.'
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...t&p=1200162
I wouldnt recommend any of those options when compared to GLA-PGE1. Zinc in excessive amounts can make you nauseous.
Chromium and vitamin c is very good and kept me mostly clear over the summer, although i did have to watch my GI intake as well. a couple of people with adult acne cleared up after trying chromium and vit c from reading my posts. however, towards the end of the summer it became less and less effective (the sun went out, which has always made a difference to my skin (give me an hour or two of sunshine everyday and my acne turns from moderate to mild.)
after trying neem, both as soap (very drying) and capsules I moved toward GLA.
Thanks for that, I know what you mean... the original zinc made me really nauseous and I felt like throwing up!
how much chromium and vitamin c did you take? ive heard of people getting clear on vitamin c.
i recall taking about 1000mcg 1 or 2 times a day after food. and about 4-5g's of vitamin c- thats about the limit that a body can take of vit c in one day without discomfort.
vitamin c can make a big difference to acne. an essential nutrient in my opinion, especially if you don't eat much fruit.
Thanks for that, I know what you mean... the original zinc made me really nauseous and I felt like throwing up!
try taking a citrate form, that should make feeling nauseous unlikely in low doses. im a bit miffed about zinc, in some cases it really helps, in others it can cause a breakout.
ok im lost...right now i take 4 primerose a day...one pre natal multi...2 zinc. 1 flax..2 omega 3-6-9, 2 vit C, 1 calcium
if i take borage do i need to stop something and do i need it with milk and why?
will this help right away with hormones if i stop the birth control?? i already took accutane but remained on the pill..im scared to get of it
Hi all,
I'm on this gravy train too as of this morning. Here's what I bought:
Health From The Sun Borage Oil - each pill contains 1300mg of borage oil and 300mg of GLA. I've started with two capsules this morning and will do two more tonight for a total of 5200mg/day. I'm basing this on prior posts that suggest "ramping up" in higher doses initially and then tapering off after a month if I'm getting results.
Whole Foods brand Lecithin - each capsule provides 1200mg. One in the morning and one in the evening for a total of 2400mg.
Instead of washing it down with a few swigs of milk, I'm using a tbsp. of extra virgin unrefined coconut oil. I've noticed a significant change recently when I eliminated all dairy from my diet, so I don't want to mess that up. The coconut oil is a very healthy fat so it should help with the absorption of capsules, I'd think.
I'll give this a week or two and post my results. I'm fairly clear right now after a really tough summer, so I'm hoping this finally puts me at 100%. I just cannot tolerate all the acne products any longer and they're doing more harm than good at this point. Good luck to everyone!
Well guys, I'm back with really good news. I'm on day 5 of 5200mg Borage Oil/d and 2400mg of Lecithin/d with very clear skin! I have one small pimple on my neck and that's it. I had noticed a big difference initially by eliminating dairy a week before using the oil, so at this point, I don't know if it's the dairy, or the Borage Oil, or both, but in any case, this is fantastic.
I got brave enough by day 2 to totally stop topicals. I was using Neutrogena 3-in-1 Hydrating Lotion with fair results (I gave up on BP a few months ago after YEARS of use because I just couldn't take the excessive dryness, flaking, and bleaching), but it was never enough. This is my fourth day of treating my face like a non-acne person would and it's a dream. It's soft, smooth, pain-free and CLEAR. I'm still washing with Basis for sensitive skin, but that's it. I apply sunscreen during the day, and at night, I wash with Basis again and apply a quarter-sized amount of aloe vera with 3 drops of 100% Jojoba Oil in it. That's it. I'm saving about an hour a day in the bathroom because of this as well. It's amazing.
But all good things have trade-offs. After doing some research, I'm a little concerned about long-term use of Borage Oil. Some of it has already been discussed here, but I wanted to add a few additional articles I found - some of which show a link between Borage Oil and depression, alzheimer's, and other brain diseases. In some cases, the studies point to omega-6 fatty acids in general, so they're not necessarily targeting Borage Oil, but in some cases they are. I thought it was best to include whatever I've found and see if anyone can offer additional insight into this. I want clear, amazing looking skin, but not if I'm going to wind up in a nursing home drooling all over myself because I have dementia. Why can't there ever just be a cure with no side effects?? Here are a few of the links:
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http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=29976
http://www.news-medical.net/?id=10398
[Link Removed]
I would LOVE someone to tell me there's nothing to worry about, so please write back if you can offer anything! Thank you.
How long have you been taking it and what have your results been like?
Personally, I'm not so worried about the depression aspect because I don't suffer from that. I'm worried more about getting cancer or developing dementia or Alzheimer's. Like I'd mentioned, my skin improved immediately following the elimination of dairy products, so the addition of Borage Oil brought me up to 100%. I think I'm already ready to reduce from 5200mg/d to 2600/d and see what happens.
What do you know about fish oil supplementation? There are numerous threads about how great it is (and totally safe) but the emphasis there is that omega-3s are what's clearing your skin and omega-6s are making it worse. I feel that the GLA contained within the omega-6s are what's responsible for skin clearing, and that can't be found in fish oil. I don't know what to do at the moment. Going through one bottle of Borage Oil capsules isn't going to ruin my health, so I'm going to finish them for sure. But I might try stopping altogether and see if the dairy-free diet alone is enough to maintain clear skin. I suppose it would be great to also supplement with a high quality fish oil at the same time regardless. Even if it doesn't clear your skin, the other health benefits are pretty impressive.
One final thought - I don't know if going back to EPO fixes the issue. It may contain less GLA than Borage, but if GLA *possibly* causes depression, dimentia, etc., then it's still something to worry about. Unless I'm completely misinterpreting everything I'm reading here, which is why I'd love someone who's done more research than you or me to respond...
did anyone using borage oil break out a bit initially? I'm experiencing some breakouts and don't know if I should continue. I'm taking 5000 mg borage (1000 gla). Thanks.
5000mg is pretty excessive IMO. The supplement I take has 1300mg Borage oil (312mg GLA); remember more is not always better. Try reducing your amount and seeing if it persists.
I thought I'd post an update since I stopped taking the EPO. I've only quit taking it for 4 days and my acne has come back full force today.....extremely quickly. This is so awful. I wish I could take the EPO.
Awww sweetie thats awful 
One thing you could try, instead of swallowing the pills, crack them open and use a few drops of the oil as a topical. It works in the same way, allbeit slower, but its unlikely to affect your stomach. I had minor gut issues when I was taking a high dose, now I swallow half the dose and use the other half as a moisture boost in the morning. I used to use it at night too... but Im experimenting with olive oil right now with some pretty amazing results 
I really hope this helps
Hmmm, the link with depression worries me because I've suffered from that heavily in the past. I'm currently taking 6000mg of Borage Oil but I may go back to EPO.....?
Hey
Thought Id set your mind at ease about the links to depression.
Ive been taking 1000mg EPO daily for quite a few months now, I am also on anti-depressants for severe post natal depression. I have found only good things to come from taking it, my PMS has virtually diminished and I feel pretty damn good (apart from the acne.... which is slowly going)
If you try it, just be sure to keep a mental note of how your moods and things are, it can affect people differently, just thought Id give you a heads up though
