Acne.org Products
someoneinuk, if you would take the time to READ things, you wouldn't be replying to me in such a manner. The reason i linked you up with Gary Taubes article is that he refers to a lot of actual research in his article, which you could then look up for yourself.
And i can see you didn't read Ulf Ravnskovs site. Please don't argue with me before reading what i have to say. We can return to this discussion when you've read up.
That press release you linked to is of no relevance. Such studies are generally frowned upon in the medical community.
Here's a list of real studies, the site is swedish but the reference list is in english
[Link Removed]
I can't tell you which refer to cardio-vascular health... you'll have to read for yourself.
I could also link you up to at least three very recent swedish studies regarding saturated fats... of which all kill the old myth...
I could also link you up with studies which conclude that those polyunsaturated fats you speak of act inflammatory in regards to cardiovascular health, mainly because of the high content of omega-6 fatty acids... but i gotta go!
Most of those studies from [Link Removed] are about carbohydrates, not fats!!!! 
Here is a list of over 5000 studies regarding saturated fats and fats in general. The vast majority prove the link between sat. fats and bad health in many areas, such as cardiovascular health, heart health etc.
http://www.level1diet.com/images/level_1_diet_search100.gi f" target="_blank">http://www.level1diet.com/images/level_1_diet_search100.gi f"/> %3BLH:29%3BLW:100%3BLBGC:336699%3BLP:1%3BLC:%230000ff%3BVLC:%23663399%3BGFNT:%230000ff%3BGIMP:%230000ff%3BDIV:%23336699%3B&domains=Level1Diet.com%3BWebMD.com%3BNcbi.nlm.nih.gov&sitesearch=Ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&sig=bJQwx6VQCSeNsMj0&flav=0000&start=0&sa=N" rel="external nofollow"> http://www.google.com/custom?q=saturated+f...tart=0&sa=N
So there are over 5000 studies for you to look through.
QuoteAnd i can see you didn't read Ulf Ravnskovs site. Please don't argue with me before reading what i have to say. We can return to this discussion when you've read up.
Actually i did read it and didnt think much of it. It contained a few statements without any supporting evidence. If you cannot see that it is a site geared towards selling a book then I cannot help you.
Further, if you subscribe to The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics then thats you choice. Thankfully, most people trust the thousands of studies that show saturated fats are indeed unhealthy.
As I said before, some people want to eat saturated fats without the stigma of knowing that it is unhealthy, so they find 'evidence' that shows it is actually a positive food choice....
I have a couple of in depth questions:
1) I understand GLA is necessary, so how much GLA are we supposed to take?
2) I know that one of the main reasons EFA's are good is that is reduces the viscosity of sebum, which makes it help skin rather than block it, but is it only GLA's that do this? Or does fish oil (ALA's = alpha linolenic acid) also do this as well?
Because it seems I have less waxy sebum, but I wasn't sure if ALA's also do that, because it seems to be. Or does GLA do it more than ALA's do?
3) Can ALA's be convereted to GLA by the body? Because I've read that the body only uses the GLA's
I have a couple of in depth questions:
1) I understand GLA is necessary, so how much GLA are we supposed to take?
2) I know that one of the main reasons EFA's are good is that is reduces the viscosity of sebum, which makes it help skin rather than block it, but is it only GLA's that do this? Or does fish oil (ALA's = alpha linolenic acid) also do this as well?
Because it seems I have less waxy sebum, but I wasn't sure if ALA's also do that, because it seems to be. Or does GLA do it more than ALA's do?
3) Can ALA's be convereted to GLA by the body? Because I've read that the body only uses the GLA's
1) anything from 50mg to 700mg depending on various factors...200mg-400mg is usually the optimum dose.
2) EFAs produce anti-inflammatory hormones which have many positive effects on the body and skin health, one of them being, as you said, reducing the viscosity of sebum.
ALA (or more accurately, the PGE3 it turns into) is more well known for its sebum reduction than GLA. Yet I doubt acne can be cured with only ALA, or without GLA.
3) ALA cannot be converted to GLA.
Sorry I didnt read through all the pages but can evening primrose oil be used by someone on birth control...since it messes with hormones...I'm on the shot. thanks!
Ive been asked about this before, and to be honest I doubt evening primrose oil is going to be dangerous whilst taking bcp's. It would be known about. Or at least you would hope so...
I have a couple of in depth questions:
1) I understand GLA is necessary, so how much GLA are we supposed to take?
2) I know that one of the main reasons EFA's are good is that is reduces the viscosity of sebum, which makes it help skin rather than block it, but is it only GLA's that do this? Or does fish oil (ALA's = alpha linolenic acid) also do this as well?
Because it seems I have less waxy sebum, but I wasn't sure if ALA's also do that, because it seems to be. Or does GLA do it more than ALA's do?
3) Can ALA's be convereted to GLA by the body? Because I've read that the body only uses the GLA's
1) anything from 50mg to 700mg depending on various factors...200mg-400mg is usually the optimum dose.
2) EFAs produce anti-inflammatory hormones which have many positive effects on the body and skin health, one of them being, as you said, reducing the viscosity of sebum.
ALA (or more accurately, the PGE3 it turns into) is more well known for its sebum reduction than GLA. Yet I doubt acne can be cured with only ALA, or without GLA.
3) ALA cannot be converted to GLA.
You are god send, thank you very much, that answered my question thoroughly and it makes sense!
I keep reading this thread. It seems like the more I read, the more I get confused. Don't know how that works but it does lol.
Okay here's the deal:
The three oils I bought to take are:
Evening Primrose Oil 500 mg (2 capsules provide 1000 mgs of high quality cold-pressed epo) and
(fatty acid profile for 1 serving (2 caps): Linoleic Acid (LA) 700 mg - gamma-Linoleic Acid (GLA) 80 mg)
Borage Oil 1000 mg (1 capsule provides 1000 mgs) and (fatty acid profile for 1 serving
(1 caps): Linoleic Acid (LA) 383 mg - gamma-Linoleic Acid (GLA) 212 mg - Oleic Acid 180 mg - Palmitic Acid 107 mg -Stearic Acid 38 mg)
Flaxseed Oil 500 mg (1 capsule is one serving of 500 mgs) and (fatty acid profile for 1 serving (1 caps): alpha-Linoleic Acid (ALA) 275 mg - Linoleic Acid (LA) 70 mg - Oleic Acid 82 mg - Palmitic Acid 26 mg)
I will be taking these in combination with my daily multi-vitamin that I just bought also. ( Iodine-free )
These contain 25mg of ALA in 2 capsules, (a serving).
If I took 2 multi-vitamins a day ( a serving ) and 1 Flaxseed Oil capsule a day ( a serving ) I would be getting about 300 mg of ALA a day.
My questions are:
How much of these oils do I need to take?
Would I be better off dropping the flaxseed oil for fish oil?
I read somewhere that multivitamins donot pair well with one of these oils, is this true?
I also read somewhere else that fish oil capsules can contain some of the harmful heavy metals and minerals that the fish contain, is this true?
I read somewhere that Cod liver oil capsules taken with multivitamins can be toxic for your liver because of high amounts of Vitamins A & D?
Do I need to keep these oils ( in capsule form ) in the refridgerator or can they be kept in a dark, dry, cool cupboard?
What is the shelf life on these oils? I read somewhere that they go bad quickly, is this true?
Thanks for clearing this up for me. I really appreciate it. 
I just wanted to also add to my post that if I took
2 multi-vitamins a day
1 flax seed oil capsule
1 borage oil capsule
2 evening primrose oil capsules
My daily intake would be something like:
GLA: 292 mg
ALA: 300 mg
Is this enough GLA or should I take more borage oil to get more GLA?
If I took 2 borage oil capsules instead of 1 I would end up with:
GLA: 504 mg
ALA: 300 mg
Thanks.
Whoa, okay.. I think I'm taking way too much.
No, I know I am taking way too much.
How many mg's of GLA should I be taking, in total, per day? I thought maintenance was like.. 1500mg (Of GLA, not EPO.. So that'd be like, an insane amount of EPO), but someone said something about only an average of 400mg?? Lord..
Well, it would be great news, considering they [financially] run me into the ground by going through so many each day, and also because I always manage to get them stuck in my throat if I try to take more than three per gulp and suffer severe chest pains until they pass through into my stomach.
Also, I'm on birth control, and I haven't had an issue with it thus far.. I figure it can only help, you know?
Someone who is honestly educated in this department respond to this. I don't want someone to take an educated guess, although I appreciate your efforts to help. I'm just kind of freaked out now because I've seen 384659813645 opposing instructions given about maintenance dosages and I don't know which are true and which are B.S.
Thank you, thank you, thank you -- In advance. <3
Whoa, okay.. I think I'm taking way too much.
No, I know I am taking way too much.
How many mg's of GLA should I be taking, in total, per day? I thought maintenance was like.. 1500mg (Of GLA, not EPO.. So that'd be like, an insane amount of EPO), but someone said something about only an average of 400mg?? Lord..
Well, it would be great news, considering they [financially] run me into the ground by going through so many each day, and also because I always manage to get them stuck in my throat if I try to take more than three per gulp and suffer severe chest pains until they pass through into my stomach.
Also, I'm on birth control, and I haven't had an issue with it thus far.. I figure it can only help, you know?
Someone who is honestly educated in this department respond to this. I don't want someone to take an educated guess, although I appreciate your efforts to help. I'm just kind of freaked out now because I've seen 384659813645 opposing instructions given about maintenance dosages and I don't know which are true and which are B.S.
Thank you, thank you, thank you -- In advance. <3
I believe fish oil may be more beneficial then epo and i would like to try to explain why below.
this chart may help you make some decisions about what to take
it shows you how omega 6s and omega 3s try to balance themselves.
if i were to give you any advice it would be based on my understanding of how efas work, and based on this chart.
How to interpret the chart:
the chart shows how omega 6s and omega 3s try to achieve an optimal balance, in the center of the chart there are enzymes which each of the fatty acids on either side compete for.
All of our problems with acne come from Arachidonic acid, from which inflammatory Eicosanoids are made from.
gla(epo) inhibits arachidonic acid and makes some anti-inflammatory eicosanoids(see chart), those are the main benefits to supplementing gla. and it is one of the most important and beneficial o6 fatty acids
But another way to inhibit arachidonic acid is to take FISH OIL, as you can tell from the chart EPA is a direct competitor of Arachidonic acid
After your body has enough gla, it converts it directly back into Arachidonic acid. So only supplement gla for a short period of time, but get your GLA from borage oil and not epo. epo has high levels of omega 6, i think borage oil is the better bet becasue it has more gla in relation to the omega 6s that are also in it.
so fish oil with epa will do a better job of inhibiting arachidonic acid by directly competing with it for the same enzyme, plus epa will make all the proinflammatory eicosanoids that will helps stop sebum glands.
I hope that was somewhat clear. but I dont think it gets any simpler then for me to say,
take fish oil and balance o6 to o3 at a 1:1 ratio.
I have a couple of in depth questions:
1) I understand GLA is necessary, so how much GLA are we supposed to take?
2) I know that one of the main reasons EFA's are good is that is reduces the viscosity of sebum, which makes it help skin rather than block it, but is it only GLA's that do this? Or does fish oil (ALA's = alpha linolenic acid) also do this as well?
Because it seems I have less waxy sebum, but I wasn't sure if ALA's also do that, because it seems to be. Or does GLA do it more than ALA's do?
3) Can ALA's be convereted to GLA by the body? Because I've read that the body only uses the GLA's
1) anything from 50mg to 700mg depending on various factors...200mg-400mg is usually the optimum dose.
2) EFAs produce anti-inflammatory hormones which have many positive effects on the body and skin health, one of them being, as you said, reducing the viscosity of sebum.
ALA (or more accurately, the PGE3 it turns into) is more well known for its sebum reduction than GLA. Yet I doubt acne can be cured with only ALA, or without GLA.
3) ALA cannot be converted to GLA.
ala does not directly turn into any prostaglandins nor does it turn into any eicosanoids.
eventually yea it does, but pge3 is made from epa.
where did you here that pge3 inhibits sebum inhibition? as far as ive seen there arent any studies that have identified it.
i would like to read that study.thanks.
id have to say that you are right in assuming epa is responsible for sebum reduction since AA is responsible for ltb4 and pge2 has been proven to stimulate sebum production. but there arent any studies proving it.
heres a chart
ala does not directly turn into any prostaglandins nor does it turn into any eicosanoids.
eventually yea it does, but pge3 is made from epa.
ALA converts into EPA, which then converts into PGE3. Its pretty much the whole point in taking ALA....
Taking EPA 'straight' from fish oil is much more efficient.
where did you here that pge3 inhibits sebum inhibition? as far as ive seen there arent any studies that have identified it.i would like to read that study.thanks
I will have a look for a study. Im pretty sure its the hormone PGE3 that does it and not the ALA. Perhaps indirectly as PGE3 inhibits PGE2- which causes sebum production. Also, PGE1 inhibits PGE2. So maybe PGE1's & PGE3's anti-sebum properties are indirect, i.e. they inhibit a sebum producer- PGE2.
just in case you havent read this one
1: J Mol Med. 2006 Jan;84(1):75-87. Epub 2005 Dec 31. Links
Enzymes involved in the biosynthesis of leukotriene B4 and prostaglandin E2 are active in sebaceous glands.Alestas T, Ganceviciene R, Fimmel S, Muller-Decker K, Zouboulis CC.
Department of Dermatology, Charite Universitaetsmedizin Berlin, Campus Benjamin Franklin, Fabeckstrasse 60-62, 14195 Berlin, Germany.
The expression of enzymes involved in leukotriene and prostaglandin signalling pathways, of interleukins 6 and 8 and of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors in sebaceous glands of acne-involved facial skin was compared with those of non-involved skin of acne patients and of healthy individuals. Moreover, 5-lipoxygenase and leukotriene A(4) hydrolase were expressed at mRNA and protein levels in vivo and in SZ95 sebocytes in vitro (leukotriene A(4) hydrolase > 5-lipoxygenase), while 15-lipoxygenase-1 was only detected in cultured sebocytes. Cyclooxygenase-1 and cyclooxygenase-2 were also present. Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors were constitutively expressed. Enhanced 5-lipoxygenase, cyclooxygenase 2 and interleukin 6 expression was detected in acne-involved facial skin. Arachidonic acid stimulated leukotriene B(4) and interleukin 6 release as well as prostaglandin E(2) biosynthesis in SZ95 sebocytes, induced abundant increase in neutral lipids and down-regulated peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-alpha, but not receptor-gamma1 mRNA levels, which were the predominant peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor isotypes in SZ95 sebocytes. In conclusion, human sebocytes possess the enzyme machinery for functional leukotriene and prostaglandin pathways. A comprehensive link between inflammation and sebaceous lipid synthesis is provided.
someone in the uk- are you aware of the role of ppars play in all this?
check out the illustration of how fatty acids bind with ppars and then bind with rxr receptors to influence gene modulation. usually genes that have apoptic effects on the cell. this is what accutane does to influence acne and induce apoptosis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peroxisome_pr...ivated_receptor
I just wanted to also add to my post that if I took
2 multi-vitamins a day
1 flax seed oil capsule
1 borage oil capsule
2 evening primrose oil capsules
My daily intake would be something like:
GLA: 292 mg
ALA: 300 mg
Is this enough GLA or should I take more borage oil to get more GLA?
If I took 2 borage oil capsules instead of 1 I would end up with:
GLA: 504 mg
ALA: 300 mg
Thanks.
I just realized that I am incorrect on the amount of ALA
I thought that my multi-vitamins contained ALA ( alpha-linoleic acid ) but actually they contain the other ALA ( alpha-lipoic acid ) Go figure!
so my actual daily intake would be 275 mg of alpha-linoleic acid ( and that's only one capsule )
So my question is how much GLA and how much ALA should I be taking?
2 multi-vitamins a day
1 flax seed oil capsule
1 borage oil capsule
2 evening primrose oil capsules
This gives me:
GLA: 292 mg
ALA: 275 mg
2 multi-vitamins a day
1 flax seed oil capsule
2 borage oil capsule
2 evening primrose oil capsules
This gives me:
GLA: 504 mg
ALA: 275 mg
2 multi-vitamins a day
2 flax seed oil capsule
1 borage oil capsule
2 evening primrose oil capsules
This gives me:
GLA: 292 mg
ALA: 550 mg
2 multi-vitamins a day
2 flax seed oil capsule
2 borage oil capsule
2 evening primrose oil capsules
This gives me:
GLA: 504 mg
ALA: 550 mg
I know these are " fighting " for balance.
What kind of balance do I need?
The same amount of each? Or more of one then the other?
Thanks! 
Hi MDP..
I've tried EPO in the past.. did wonders for me for the brief while (and my acne).. found after stopped using it I also would break out full force.. I only got it cause at work this girl mentioned she forgot to take hers.. and she had GREAT PERFECT SKIN... it's beneficial for SKIN and nails...
Anyway, I'm writing to you regarding your other issue the ENDITRO.. (and Stomach Pains) I also have had the same issue... I make HERB TEA ...and it also has helped my Cramps etc... I was at the Hospital Bleeding and only had 83% Blood left.. it was so bad..
Anyway, try some Fish-oil Caspules (omega)...
Please watch out though some folks as myself cannot intake to much of Iodine... found in some fish..
LEMONGRASS GOOD FOR "EXCESSIVE OIL SECRETIONS" or ABSORBING OIL.....
Perhaps a well mild toner such as ROSE WATER..
Better yet.. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND .....--> WITCH HAZEL... Great Toner/Cleanser
Best of Luck!!
Good Luck ~ If your Still suffering w/ your ENDRETRO... let me know.....(or MSG ME)...
I can message you regarding the HERBAL TEA remedy (4 HERBS) I religiously make inwhich also balance HORMONES.. but is primarly good for that cause... Ciao!... 
After your body has enough gla, it converts it directly back into Arachidonic acid.
can you please show me the source of this data. Ive done extensive research into PGE's and GLA and have never found anything that states that there is a limit to the GLA you can use, or that if there was it would convert excess GLA into AA.
In fact I dont think GLA can even convert into AA. Only LA and DGLA can.
After your body has enough gla, it converts it directly back into Arachidonic acid.
can you please show me the source of this data. Ive done extensive research into PGE's and GLA and have never found anything that states that there is a limit to the GLA you can use, or that if there was it would convert excess GLA into AA.
In fact I dont think GLA can even convert into AA. Only LA and DGLA can.
ill try to dig it up.
I dont think it has done anything for my oil but I juststarted taking it 2 wks ago.
I'm taking 2 fish oils, 1 epo, 1 borage oil morning and night
My oil is still here so far.......
It seems you're not taking it in the quantities you're supposed to to make a difference? I don't know much about epo, but I don't think 1 epo is much?
someoneintheuk said:QuoteAfter your body has enough gla, it converts it directly back into Arachidonic acid.can you please show me the source of this data. Ive done extensive research into PGE's and GLA and have never found anything that states that there is a limit to the GLA you can use, or that if there was it would convert excess GLA into AA.
In fact I dont think GLA can even convert into AA. Only LA and DGLA can.
From the university of maryland
[Link Removed]
Doses of GLA greater than 3,000 mg per day should be avoided because, at that point, production of AA (rather than DGLA) may increase.
Linoleic acid (LA), another omega-6 fatty acid, is found in cooking oils and processed foods and converted to GLA in the body. GLA is then broken down to arachidonic acid (AA) and/or another substance called dihomogamma-liolenic acid (DGLA). AA can also be consumed directly from meat, and GLA is available directly from evening primrose oil (EPO), black currant seed oil, and borage oil. Most of these oils also contain some linoleic acid.
Much of the GLA taken from the oils mentioned or as a supplement is not converted to AA, but rather to DGLA. DGLA competes with AA and prevents the negative inflammatory effects that AA would otherwise cause in the body. Having adequate amounts of certain nutrients in the body (including magnesium, zinc, and vitamins C, B3, and B6) helps to promote the conversion of GLA to DGLA rather than AA.
so i guess the risk isnt as bad as i thought but the statement i made is still true.
Mainly the things ive read are suggesting that massive gla supplementation is for older adults that dont make much gla anymore. Or people with vitamin defieciencys. My opinion is there is a stronger case for treating your acne with massive fish oil intake then there is for gla intake thats why i say just do a little gla for a month but focus on fish oil.
But now i have a feeling gla may be more important for women and acne. But still not better then fish oil.
hope this helps.
For those of you take evening prim rose oil, have you noticed a decrease in oil production in any way? If so, how much, and did it completely go away? (the excess oil)
I've been taking epo for about a little over a month now. I have noticed a decrease in oil production. It has not completely gone away, but i consider it to be a good improvement wherein my face is neither an oil slick nor dry and flakey. The first few weeks i was on it, my face was the best its ever looked in years! I didnt get as many breakouts and when i did, the active spots generally went away within a few days rather than staying for a whole month like it used to. Heres the bad news, i started to break out around my chin area again really bad, i have no idea why. Im guessing maybe i screwed up maintaining my diet a bit. I take epo, lecitihin, vit E, and betacarotine every day together. I still use dan kerns BP on the active zits unfortunately. Now im considering switchin the epo to either blackcurrant seed or borage oil as well as adding a fish oil supplement.
I hate that theres not much long term research done on these oils for safety.
For those of you take evening prim rose oil, have you noticed a decrease in oil production in any way? If so, how much, and did it completely go away? (the excess oil)
I've been taking epo for about a little over a month now. I have noticed a decrease in oil production. It has not completely gone away, but i consider it to be a good improvement wherein my face is neither an oil slick nor dry and flakey. The first few weeks i was on it, my face was the best its ever looked in years! I didnt get as many breakouts and when i did, the active spots generally went away within a few days rather than staying for a whole month like it used to. Heres the bad news, i started to break out around my chin area again really bad, i have no idea why. Im guessing maybe i screwed up maintaining my diet a bit. I take epo, lecitihin, vit E, and betacarotine every day together. I still use dan kerns BP on the active zits unfortunately. Now im considering switchin the epo to either blackcurrant seed or borage oil as well as adding a fish oil supplement.
I hate that theres not much long term research done on these oils for safety.
Hey thanks for your input! It seems pretty much, and very similar to the effects of the other EFA's like fish oil. I found this today. I know I posted this elsewhere but I also wanted to post it here to help anyone who may want to check it out:
Much of the GLA taken from the oils mentioned or as a supplement is not converted to AA, but rather to DGLA. DGLA competes with AA and prevents the negative inflammatory effects that AA would otherwise cause in the body. Having adequate amounts of certain nutrients in the body (including magnesium, zinc, and vitamins C, B3, and B6) helps to promote the conversion of GLA to DGLA rather than AA.
It is important to know that many experts feel that the science supporting the use of omega-3 fatty acids to reduce inflammation and prevent diseases is much stronger than the information regarding use of GLA for these purposes. Two important, and most studied, omega-3 fatty acids include eicosopentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), both found in fish and fish oils.
So they may also be alleviating some of the similar issues dealing with skin and acne as well, since our situations tend to be the same. About the way our skin feels, and oil production. Neither oil streaks, nor dry skin, just healthy skin.
I'm sorry to hear about the recent break outs, perhaps it was from outside influences such as your skin care regimen etc?