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Fehheh77

Why is final improvement of acne scars usually not more than 70-80%?

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Posted (edited)

I seldom find completely recovered acne scars (from grade 3-4 to grade 0).
It might be a stupid question, but is there a certain reason why grade 3-4 acne scars usually cannot be improved by more than 70-80%? Is it a skin texture problem that cannot be further improved? Or is the skin's collagen production exhausted/depleted? Do our current techniques fall short?

 

If for example rolling scars cannot be further improved, is it a thing to fill up (rolling) scars with (semi-)permenant dermal fillers to make them nearly (95-100%) invisible? If this is a thing, I would be happy to fill my scars routinely (e.g. annually). 

Edited by Louw
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Posted (edited)

My understanding is scarring can limited lifted except with excision. But more have the potential to soften the edges with treatments. So let’s say if u have deep scar then the most improvement you will see is softening of edges and little bit lifting. As treatments progress most improvement is the angle of the scar changing.  That’s is the reason why a person with deep scar can never go back to zero but if the depth is less then as the scar edge changes it so possible to go back to as pre scarred skin as possible. Again that is my understanding for atleast people with old scar. Maybe this doesn’t apply to people with fresh scars. For instance I have an excision of icepick which failed ie opened up but after two phenol cross it recovered 90 percent so there maybe something that happnes with fresh scars that is different 

Edited by getsmart121
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44 minutes ago, getsmart121 said:

My understanding is scarring can limited lifted except with excision. But more have the potential to soften the edges with treatments. So let’s say if u have deep scar then the most improvement you will see is softening of edges and little bit lifting. As treatments progress most improvement is the angle of the scar changing.  That’s is the reason why a person with deep scar can never go back to zero but if the depth is less then as the scar edge changes it so possible to go back to as pre scarred skin as possible. Again that is my understanding for atleast people with old scar. Maybe this doesn’t apply to people with fresh scars. For instance I have an excision of icepick which failed ie opened up but after two phenol cross it recovered 90 percent so there maybe something that happnes with fresh scars that is different 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. What do you think about dermal fillers (about what I mentioned above)?

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I have several icepick scars or enlarged pores that were hit with ablative dermabrasion and they look like 90% improved. Basically if you look inches away you can see the scars are a different material and sort of like tiny 'invisible' stretch marks but almost completely level. The only variance is the material difference. Even if I took a picture right up close it would not pick it up, it has to be an actual eyeball looking at it close up.

Basically that's how I view the best potential, 90% improvement in depth give or take and the variance is a different material that is nearly invisible if that makes sense. I don't think scar tissue can ever perfectly blend into other skin tissue simply because it's constructed differently, it will never, ever be totally invisible, which sucks but that's the best a scar is going to get. Don't get me wrong I'm pretty damn happy about those, I just wish the other ones were more level or invisible.

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9 hours ago, harmlessboy1441 said:

I have several icepick scars or enlarged pores that were hit with ablative dermabrasion and they look like 90% improved. Basically if you look inches away you can see the scars are a different material and sort of like tiny 'invisible' stretch marks but almost completely level. The only variance is the material difference. Even if I took a picture right up close it would not pick it up, it has to be an actual eyeball looking at it close up.

Basically that's how I view the best potential, 90% improvement in depth give or take and the variance is a different material that is nearly invisible if that makes sense. I don't think scar tissue can ever perfectly blend into other skin tissue simply because it's constructed differently, it will never, ever be totally invisible, which sucks but that's the best a scar is going to get. Don't get me wrong I'm pretty damn happy about those, I just wish the other ones were more level or invisible.

Did you have TCA cross treatments?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Fehheh77 said:

Did you have TCA cross treatments?

I know someone who did they widened and possibly deepened 4 spots. Other people have documented success. Probably depends on a lot of factors and who does it, type of scar etc. TCA cross is a procedure I tell people pay more and do 1 spot see how it goes do not do like 10 spots at once to "save money". Any reputable doctor will not worry about 15 minutes of their time to permanently worsen your lifetime face.

 

Edited by harmlessboy1441
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Posted (edited)

70-80% of improvement is rare actually only if you have really mild scars. If we get 30-50% we can be happy thu years of treating. I have rolling scars with fat loss. 

Edited by Gelko
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43 minutes ago, Gelko said:

70-80% of improvement is rare actually only if you have really mild scars. If we get 30-50% we can be happy thu years of treating. I have rolling scars with fat loss. 

I always find it difficult to assess acne scar improvement with percentages. It seems so dependent on the person's perception. One focusses on the levelness, while the other focusses on texture. 

1 hour ago, harmlessboy1441 said:

I know someone who did they widened and possibly deepened 4 spots. Other people have documented success. Probably depends on a lot of factors and who does it, type of scar etc. TCA cross is a procedure I tell people pay more and do 1 spot see how it goes do not do like 10 spots at once to "save money". Any reputable doctor will not worry about 15 minutes of their time to permanently worsen your lifetime face.

 

Yeah, I think the success of a procedure depends for a huge part on the skills of the practitioner. Some people try TCA cross at home, some even using 100% TCA. I think you should leave risky treatments for highly experienced professionals that perform them on a daily basis. 

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56 minutes ago, Jason2121 said:

Acne Scar treatments are scam that’s why you don’t find these results.

What do you mean with scam? That the before and after photos are misleading/fake or that good treatment modalities do not exist?

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29 minutes ago, Fehheh77 said:

What do you mean with scam?

he is a very depressed person who wants to live in a perfect world. 

 

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55 minutes ago, Candy Says said:

he is a very depressed person who wants to live in a perfect world. 

 

Like in a toxic way or in a serious way?

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3 minutes ago, Fehheh77 said:

Like in a toxic way or in a serious way?

there are certain type of guys on this forum who like to demoralize others without contributing anything valuable. He feels depressed and hopeless so he wants everyone to feel the same way.

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Posted (edited)

I had few bad icepick after excision they were gone how is that a scam. Again if you are treating boxcars then it s a different game because most it can do is slant the edges and little bit lift. I would say the worst scars are boxcar. Icepick and rolling are the easiest types.

Edited by getsmart121
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2 hours ago, getsmart121 said:

I had few bad icepick after excision they were gone how is that a scam. Again if you are treating boxcars then it s a different game because most it can do is slant the edges and little bit lift. I would say the worst scars are boxcar. Icepick and rolling are the easiest types.

Can I ask who performed your excision? Is it a well-known doctor?

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41 minutes ago, Fehheh77 said:

Can I ask who performed your excision? Is it a well-known doctor?

Mark Taylor, excision and laser in the same session as I read in a study that doing in the same session produces invisible scars. As for texture don’t expect much from laser. Even I disagree with most people about phenol peel on texture. For some reason it’s not able to smother the canvas. Not like dermabrasion. Sure it won’t lift scars much but at least the canvas would be smoother.

Edited by getsmart121
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17 hours ago, Fehheh77 said:

What do you mean with scam? That the before and after photos are misleading/fake or that good treatment modalities do not exist?

Right. And if doctors mess up your face they push it in your mental health. 

15 hours ago, Candy Says said:

there are certain type of guys on this forum who like to demoralize others without contributing anything valuable. He feels depressed and hopeless so he wants everyone to feel the same way.

I was quite depressed because my doctor ( acne scar expert) did mess up my face with “safe” methods  :) 

Edited by Jason2121
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9 hours ago, getsmart121 said:

Mark Taylor, excision and laser in the same session as I read in a study that doing in the same session produces invisible scars. As for texture don’t expect much from laser. Even I disagree with most people about phenol peel on texture. For some reason it’s not able to smother the canvas. Not like dermabrasion. Sure it won’t lift scars much but at least the canvas would be smoother.

What kind of laser? The fully ablative lasers are best in producing collagen of all types of lasers. But they are pretty invasive in my opinion. 

1 hour ago, Jason2121 said:

Right. And if doctors mess up your face they push it in your mental health. 

I was quite depressed because my doctor ( acne scar expert) did mess up my face with “safe” methods  :) 

Which doctor?

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12 minutes ago, Fehheh77 said:

What kind of laser? The fully ablative lasers are best in producing collagen of all types of lasers. But they are pretty invasive in my opinion. 

Which doctor?

I didnt try full ablative full cheek yet. I had full ablative only on boxcar edges so they smooth out. 

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5 minutes ago, getsmart121 said:

I didnt try full ablative full cheek yet. I had full ablative only on boxcar edges so they smooth out. 

What about the pricing at Gateway Laser Center? I can’t find any on their website. 

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7 hours ago, Jason2121 said:

Right. And if doctors mess up your face they push it in your mental health. 

I was quite depressed because my doctor ( acne scar expert) did mess up my face with “safe” methods  :) 

What treatment gave you trouble?

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6 hours ago, Fehheh77 said:

What about the pricing at Gateway Laser Center? I can’t find any on their website. 

You have to call and get a quote. I noticed they usually target to extract 4000 from you per session. For instance the girl who recently had the treatment. Wherein the treatment was just laser and Subcision. They still charged her 4k. My cost was around the same. But it’s worth it if you want to see a change. It won’t be perfect but definitely you will see change. I am a bit skeptical on fractional laser as it could cause more texture issues. I think one should focus on treatment quality even if the recovery takes a month such as full ablation laser. Instead for a quick recovery with less results or other complications.just a quick note full ablation is not going to help much with icepick or rolling scars. But for overall texture and surface scars.

Edited by getsmart121
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1 hour ago, getsmart121 said:

You have to call and get a quote. I noticed they usually target to extract 4000 from you per session. For instance the girl who recently had the treatment. Wherein the treatment was just laser and Subcision. They still charged her 4k. My cost was around the same. But it’s worth it if you want to see a change. It won’t be perfect but definitely you will see change. I am a bit skeptical on fractional laser as it could cause more texture issues. I think one should focus on treatment quality even if the recovery takes a month such as full ablation laser. Instead for a quick recovery with less results or other complications.just a quick note full ablation is not going to help much with icepick or rolling scars. But for overall texture and surface scars.

I've never been a fan of the logic in partial ablation unless it's super targeted. Fractional just seems scary to me from what I read but maybe it's just my lack of knowledge on it. From my readings, I really think people need to just lift whatever they can then get the proper full ablation relevant to their skin, risks and so on. 

Edited by harmlessboy1441
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2 hours ago, getsmart121 said:

You have to call and get a quote. I noticed they usually target to extract 4000 from you per session. For instance the girl who recently had the treatment. Wherein the treatment was just laser and Subcision. They still charged her 4k. My cost was around the same. But it’s worth it if you want to see a change. It won’t be perfect but definitely you will see change. I am a bit skeptical on fractional laser as it could cause more texture issues. I think one should focus on treatment quality even if the recovery takes a month such as full ablation laser. Instead for a quick recovery with less results or other complications.just a quick note full ablation is not going to help much with icepick or rolling scars. But for overall texture and surface scars.

How would you compare Mark Taylor with other world leading acne scar doctors? No idea if you have a good overview for yourself about the different acne scar doctors in the world and maybe you're biased because you got treated by Mark Taylor, but how would for example your top 5 look like?

23 minutes ago, JesusChrist said:

I agree with getsmart, lifting and abrasion is limited.

I have seen a video of Dr. H. performing a fully ablative laser on the skin of a patient, then wiping off the epidermis that had become crusty and come loose from the dermis, and then do another pass with the laser onto the bare dermis. It seemed very agressive, but his results are quite impressive. I guess he preferes the more invasive but less time-consuming approach. 

Edited by Fehheh77
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