Has anyone tried SmartSkin Co2 laser?

13 hours ago, scarredforlife95 said:

I have been looking on this forum, and found very little positive talking about RF Microneedling devices such as INFINI. Laser is also controversial, but I have definitely found more case studies from this forum that indicate good results from laser. If this is the case, why is RFMN usually recommended? Me for example, I have fitzpatrick type 1 skin, but still RF needling recommended by doctors and forum users, would laser not be more efficacious in this kind of instance? KR

RFMN is safer and I think some doctors suggest it because they don't want "blood on their hands." Many doctors don't want to perform treatments that have lots of downtime or cause side effects because then they have to deal with disappointed patients and may lose business. With RFMN, there's not much risk for doctors. Grid marks are fat loss are the only risks I've heard of with RFMN and you don't hear many of those stories.

Fractional CO2 lasers have big risks. I know a practice that stopped using them because of the downtime which includes prolonged erythema and hyperpigmentation. For me, I got new scars because of fractional CO2 along with PIE and PIH.

RFMN is also easier to perform than lasers.

3 hours ago, Amanda Hall said:

RFMN is safer and I think some doctors suggest it because they don't want "blood on their hands." Many doctors don't want to perform treatments that have lots of downtime or cause side effects because then they have to deal with disappointed patients and may lose business. With RFMN, there's not much risk for doctors. Grid marks are fat loss are the only risks I've heard of with RFMN and you don't hear many of those stories.

Fractional CO2 lasers have big risks. I know a practice that stopped using them because of the downtime which includes prolonged erythema and hyperpigmentation. For me, I got new scars because of fractional CO2 along with PIE and PIH.

RFMN is also easier to perform than lasers.

sure I understand that lasers are more risky, especially in ethnics, but what generally produces superior results? Are they about the same? Or does the safety profile ofRFMN come at the cost of inferior potential results?

2 hours ago, JudgmentPuzzleheaded said:

sure I understand that lasers are more risky, especially in ethnics, but what generally produces superior results? Are they about the same? Or does the safety profile ofRFMN come at the cost of inferior potential results?

If you are looking specially for results, I'm going with lasers provided that the doctor is capable of using the device with aggressive settings. More risk but more reward.

On 8/20/2021 at 3:05 PM, Amanda Hall said:

If you are looking specially for results, I'm going with lasers provided that the doctor is capable of using the device with aggressive settings. More risk but more reward.

I take it you are talking from personal experience?

Does the reward outweigh the potential risk - that is what the question should be I think.

7 hours ago, Monsoon said:

I take it you are talking from personal experience?

Does the reward outweigh the potential risk - that is what the question should be I think.

I've had multiple fractional CO2 laser treatments and two Infini treatments. Laser treatments made a noticeable difference for a number of my scars but I got additional ones due to its aggressiveness. Infini didn't really do much - or I couldn't tell for my major scars.

If someone has light or shallow scars, I'd say RFMN is the way to go (or start). Better to begin conservatively. Fractional CO2 has some risks that I don't think everyone should take.

For those who have lots of scarring and almost needs to take the risk, I would recommend laser treatments if they have the right scars. However, most doctors don't know how to fully utilize lasers so its a conundrum. Results are not uniform for laser treatments which does make it harder to recommend across the board.

I fully agree with Amanda Hall comment with halo fractional laser I definitely got new scars albeit real tiny ones like scarred pores and the infini MN did absolutely nothing and 2 sessions cost me 4000 all up (biggest waste of money)

And correct again 99 percent of doctors dont even know how to use a laser more than you or I and just use them as a revenue grower for their practice!

3 hours ago, Amanda Hall said:

I've had multiple fractional CO2 laser treatments and two Infini treatments. Laser treatments made a noticeable difference for a number of my scars but I got additional ones due to its aggressiveness. Infini didn't really do much - or I couldn't tell for my major scars.

If someone has light or shallow scars, I'd say RFMN is the way to go (or start). Better to begin conservatively. Fractional CO2 has some risks that I don't think everyone should take.

For those who have lots of scarring and almost needs to take the risk, I would recommend laser treatments if they have the right scars. However, most doctors don't know how to fully utilize lasers so its a conundrum. Results are not uniform for laser treatments which does make it harder to recommend across the board.

What kind of scars did the laser cause? Are the laser scars deep?

My scarring was always shallow, almost textural but it was so extensive I got stares/gasps/reactions. One person even told me I didn't look human.I suffered immensely so I had to seek treatment. Here's my RF story

I had one scar with significant atrophy, a tiny boxcar on my upper cheek. The rest of my cheeks were covered in shallow boxcars. I had great success with 4 sessions of Genius, at least 50% if not more improvement in the worst lighting. That one boxcar with more atrophy didn't improve at all. Not one bit. That leads me to believe Genius RF is only good for the end of treatment to level the skin a bit more before a resurfacing. I don't see how it could help any moderate orsevere scarring and I had an excellent operator doing aggressive sessions. 0 complications. I assume there are lasers that would be better than RF but carry more risk.

I ask about the laser scars because I got halo laser with no issues but I was thinking of going for a heftier resurfacing. Not sure if my case is worth the risk.

14 hours ago, Kay24 said:

What kind of scars did the laser cause? Are the laser scars deep?

My scarring was always shallow, almost textural but it was so extensive I got stares/gasps/reactions. One person even told me I didn't look human.I suffered immensely so I had to seek treatment. Here's my RF story

I had one scar with significant atrophy, a tiny boxcar on my upper cheek. The rest of my cheeks were covered in shallow boxcars. I had great success with 4 sessions of Genius, at least 50% if not more improvement in the worst lighting. That one boxcar with more atrophy didn't improve at all. Not one bit. That leads me to believe Genius RF is only good for the end of treatment to level the skin a bit more before a resurfacing. I don't see how it could help any moderate orsevere scarring and I had an excellent operator doing aggressive sessions. 0 complications. I assume there are lasers that would be better than RF but carry more risk.

I ask about the laser scars because I got halo laser with no issues but I was thinking of going for a heftier resurfacing. Not sure if my case is worth the risk.

Most people on this forum have more significant scarring than the average population with scars, hence why they are here. The majority of the outside population don't do anything because their scars are nothing major - they don't need subcision, Cross, laser treatments, etc. So we have to speak in relative terms when we talk about the severity of scarring.

I am not a big proponent of microneedling and RFMN so you won't see me recommending it that much here because I don't think it will help most of us. But I do believe that it can work for people (very small percentage of people here)with shallower scars.

Lasers gave me some new boxcar scars and some uneven texture. The boxcar scar isn't that deep but in the right lighting, one can see it. The uneven texture is kinda like the skin not being super smooth. Imaging using a needle and poking multiple holes through a piece of paper. The holes are small but they add up. I also got other very superficial scars that blend in better so it's really not noticeable unless you are inches away.

The bottom line is that lasers have risks. Maybe you can ask for a test spot to see how you heal. If your scarring isn't extensive, you can see if the practice can do spot treatment as well. This limitscollateral damage but it will look weird when the PIE/PIH looks like random spots on your face for weeks to months.

26 minutes ago, Amanda Hall said:

Most people on this forum have more significant scarring than the average population with scars, hence why they are here. The majority of the outside population don't do anything because their scars are nothing major - they don't need subcision, Cross, laser treatments, etc. So we have to speak in relative terms when we talk about the severity of scarring.

I am not a big proponent of microneedling and RFMN so you won't see me recommending it that much here because I don't think it will help most of us. But I do believe that it can work for people (very small percentage of people here)with shallower scars.

Lasers gave me some new boxcar scars and some uneven texture. The boxcar scar isn't that deep but in the right lighting, one can see it. The uneven texture is kinda like the skin not being super smooth. Imaging using a needle and poking multiple holes through a piece of paper. The holes are small but they add up. I also got other very superficial scars that blend in better so it's really not noticeable unless you are inches away.

The bottom line is that lasers have risks. Maybe you can ask for a test spot to see how to heal. If your scarring isn't extensive, you can see if the practice can do spot treatment.

Even lasers have risks but truth is even lasers won't give you significant improvement but you will be red for weeks on end and probably suffer pigment issuea and othertextural issues. The question is is it worth it in the end? To go through the pain of recovery so only 1 shallow scars improves, otherwise maybe 10% with a lot of imagination? Everybody decides for themselves. I know that I am yet to see objective photos of results from ablative lasers. Tgere are no good ones. everybody know the tricks by now and shoots the after photos while there is still microswelling going on.

7 hours ago, JaysonC said:

Even lasers have risks but truth is even lasers won't give you significant improvement but you will be red for weeks on end and probably suffer pigment issuea and othertextural issues. The question is is it worth it in the end? To go through the pain of recovery so only 1 shallow scars improves, otherwise maybe 10% with a lot of imagination? Everybody decides for themselves. I know that I am yet to see objective photos of results from ablative lasers. Tgere are no good ones. everybody know the tricks by now and shoots the after photos while there is still microswelling going on.

I feel that this forum in particular is not totally representative of acne scar treatment stories. This forum tends to attract people with eithertoo high expectations and psychological issues like bdd attached to their scarring or people who unfortunately are hyporespondersto CIT, or poor healers. You certainly can remove the 'jarring' look of sharp scars with treatment, check out what people say on youtube reddit insta etc. Much more positive outlook and self professed improvement, even when it is not sponsored.

8 hours ago, JaysonC said:

Even lasers have risks but truth is even lasers won't give you significant improvement but you will be red for weeks on end and probably suffer pigment issuea and othertextural issues. The question is is it worth it in the end? To go through the pain of recovery so only 1 shallow scars improves, otherwise maybe 10% with a lot of imagination? Everybody decides for themselves. I know that I am yet to see objective photos of results from ablative lasers. Tgere are no good ones. everybody know the tricks by now and shoots the after photos while there is still microswelling going on.

You are right and wrong. Risks are something people must consider. It's been said many times.

10% improvement? I got more than that for a handful of scars. This is why I went back and did several more treatments. Some scars look much better than the 10-15% my doctor told me to expect. And some got 0%. But I'm glad I got the treatment done. The tricky thing is finding a doctor who knows what they're doing.

We need to be cautious about doctors promising too much hope but you can't just put everything down because it didn't work for you. Cross didn't deliver the results on me that I had hoped but I'm not one to say it doesn't work. Same goes with microneedling. I am not an optimist when it comes to that. I've gotten that done and thought it was a waste of money. But some people here say that it helps a little so we have to take that into consideration and provide people with options.

22 hours ago, JudgmentPuzzleheaded said:

I feel that this forum in particular is not totally representative of acne scar treatment stories. This forum tends to attract people with eithertoo high expectations and psychological issues like bdd attached to their scarring or people who unfortunately are hyporespondersto CIT, or poor healers. You certainly can remove the 'jarring' look of sharp scars with treatment, check out what people say on youtube reddit insta etc. Much more positive outlook and self professed improvement, even when it is not sponsored.

I amnot following only this forum, but also Realself, many instagram profiles of renowned doctors, and still haven't seen photo of significant improvement after laser treatment, nor have I read sucha success story on the forum. Don't want to be pessimistic or discourage somebody from having treatments but it is what it is. I may be wrong, there might be someone out there with 90% improvement from laser, who knows. I havent seen such a case for older scars at least. Improvement is possible yes, but how much. The doctor said i will be red on end after the treatments, so i dont know if it is worth it for me personally. I have read many accounts of laser treatments on the forum and on Ig and so on and many people and know that many people the most actually get disappointed after fractional ablative laser.

20 hours ago, Amanda Hall said:

You are right and wrong. Risks are something people must consider. It's been said many times.

10% improvement? I got more than that for a handful of scars. This is why I went back and did several more treatments. Some scars look much better than the 10-15% my doctor told me to expect. And some got 0%. But I'm glad I got the treatment done. The tricky thing is finding a doctor who knows what they're doing.

We need to be cautious about doctors promising too much hope but you can't just put everything down because it didn't work for you. Cross didn't deliver the results on me that I had hoped but I'm not one to say it doesn't work. Same goes with microneedling. I am not an optimist when it comes to that. I've gotten that done and thought it was a waste of money. But some people here say that it helps a little so we have to take that into consideration and provide people with options.

Agree I am not taking anything down. Just saying lasers are not miracle solutions. just because the laser costs a few thousands and is aggressive doesnt mean it will give you big imporvement. What you will most likely get is redness and othes issues.But it is just my 2 cents

3 hours ago, JaysonC said:

I amnot following only this forum, but also Realself, many instagram profiles of renowned doctors, and still haven't seen photo of significant improvement after laser treatment, nor have I read sucha success story on the forum. Don't want to be pessimistic or discourage somebody from having treatments but it is what it is. I may be wrong, there might be someone out there with 90% improvement from laser, who knows. I havent seen such a case for older scars at least. Improvement is possible yes, but how much. The doctor said i will be red on end after the treatments, so i dont know if it is worth it for me personally. I have read many accounts of laser treatments on the forum and on Ig and so on and many people and know that many people the most actually get disappointed after fractional ablative laser.

Agree I am not taking anything down. Just saying lasers are not miracle solutions. just because the laser costs a few thousands and is aggressive doesnt mean it will give you big imporvement. What you will most likely get is redness and othes issues.But it is just my 2 cents

Nobody gets 90% but that's not what we were debating. You said people don't get more than 10% which is hogwash. I already told you that I got more than 10% on some scars. There were some scars that, after three treatments, got 0%. It depends on the scar.

Erythema after laser treatments is serious. I always get that and I'm self-conscious about it when I go out. Makeup or tinted sunscreen/moisturizer helps. If it's uniform redness, it isn't as bad. If you only have several spots lasered, it will be more noticeable.

I have not been on here long but have read a vast amount of posts.

What I have found is people are always saying that x treatment isn't worth doing or doesn't give good enough results which can discourage people. What is not good enough? Getting less than 50%?

For me any kind of improvement, even 10% would be good.

I was thinking of getting treatment but have now delayed it because of what I have read and reviews. The last thing I want is for my scars to get worse.

1 hour ago, Amanda Hall said:

Nobody gets 90% but that's not what we were debating. You said people don't get more than 10% which is hogwash. I already told you that I got more than 10% on some scars. There were some scars that, after three treatments, got 0%. It depends on the scar.

Erythema after laser treatments is serious. I always get that and I'm self-conscious about it when I go out. Makeup or tinted sunscreen/moisturizer helps. If it's uniform redness, it isn't as bad. If you only have several spots lasered, it will be more noticeable.

I said I haven't seen significant results and that most peope have high hopes in lasers and get disapppointed from fractional lasers. According to my research. This doesn't mean that some people haven't seen improvement. Most suffer from issues after laser before the ski normalizes and gets better.

2 hours ago, JaysonC said:

I said I haven't seen significant results and that most peope have high hopes in lasers and get disapppointed from fractional lasers. According to my research. This doesn't mean that some people haven't seen improvement. Most suffer from issues after laser before the ski normalizes and gets better.

I know docs can play tricks with lighting, bt no lighting manipulation can produce this much of a radical difference. In the picture it looks like 100% improvement, in better lighting I would be surprised if it didnt hold up at least 75%

47 minutes ago, JudgmentPuzzleheaded said:

I know docs can play tricks with lighting, bt no lighting manipulation can produce this much of a radical difference. In the picture it looks like 100% improvement, in better lighting I would be surprised if it didnt hold up at least 75%

Sure mate everybody can make up their own mind. Lighting can make your scars disappear in 2 second apart before and after photos as demonstrated by dr Lim.  I have written with many of Dr H patients who have had his treatments and didnt see this level of improvement. They saw maybe 20% they say. Objectively it is less because people tend to exaggerate results sometimes.

As someone pointed out people with acne scars are desperate, they see a yummy photo with different lighting and go for it.As someone pointed out people with acne scars are desperate, they see a yummy photo with different lighting and go for it.

9 minutes ago, JaysonC said:

Sure mate everybody can make up their own mind. Lighting can make your scars disappear in 2 second apart before and after photos as demonstrated by dr Lim. I have written with many of Dr H patients who have had his treatments and didnt see this level of improvement. They saw maybe 20% they say. Objectively it is less because people tend to exaggerate results sometimes.

As someone pointed out people with acne scars are desperate, they see a yummy photo with different lighting and go for it.As someone pointed out people with acne scars are desperate, they see a yummy photo with different lighting and go for it.

man you are depressing, Im not blaming you, maybe reality is just that depressing.

in which case, why bother wasting time oin this treatment forum? if nothing works, why not just come to terms with it never changing and move on with life.

1 hour ago, JudgmentPuzzleheaded said:

I know docs can play tricks with lighting, bt no lighting manipulation can produce this much of a radical difference. In the picture it looks like 100% improvement, in better lighting I would be surprised if it didnt hold up at least 75%

Well why not use same lightning and angle and show us that nice not 100% improv ? Maybe if Its 60 , it d be great to see . Also how long after laser procedure was photo taken , its clear on  after photo the skin is still swollen and theres PIH .

6 hours ago, JaysonC said:

I said I haven't seen significant results and that most peope have high hopes in lasers and get disapppointed from fractional lasers. According to my research. This doesn't mean that some people haven't seen improvement. Most suffer from issues after laser before the ski normalizes and gets better.

Yes, I suffered from issues after laser treatment and I believe most people will. 

You have to right to voice your opinion. I've let it be known that I have a different perspective than you.

3 hours ago, JudgmentPuzzleheaded said:

I know docs can play tricks with lighting, bt no lighting manipulation can produce this much of a radical difference. In the picture it looks like 100% improvement, in better lighting I would be surprised if it didnt hold up at least 75%

Impressive results by Dr. H!

How much of this is due to the laser treatment and how much filler did this person get? Swelling from lasers make scars look really good. After my first aggressive treatment, I thought my scars improved 75%+. They ended up being on average about 15% after swelling went down - some scars went back to 0%. 

Filler is a category that I'm not sure if I want to factor in in a doctor's success case. Fillers are temporary and can do wonders. But they are only temporary so there is an ongoing cost. Also, most doctors are capable of injecting fillers.

I'm guessing this person had subcision as well. Then you have to give Dr. H credit.

2 hours ago, JudgmentPuzzleheaded said:

man you are depressing, Im not blaming you, maybe reality is just that depressing.

in which case, why bother wasting time oin this treatment forum? if nothing works, why not just come to terms with it never changing and move on with life. 

Yeah. It's like he has the mentality of "you're stuck with your scars so don't waste any more money."

We should all be leery of certain treatments and doctors but we can't put everything down. We have to emphasize the things that work and let fellow members know that they have hope but not sell them false promises. Unfortunately, some treatments don't work for them, but they have options. Microneedling and RFMN (Infini) did crap for me but I persisted. Peels didn't help my scars. Non-ablative lasers wasted my money. But fractional CO2 treaments helped me and I'm nearing the end of my journey if I can fix a few scars. 

1 hour ago, Miro said:

Well why not use same lightning and angle and show us that nice not 100% improv ? Maybe if Its 60 , it d be great to see . Also how long after laser procedure was photo taken , its clear on  after photo the skin is still swollen and theres PIH .

Yes, it's always misleading to take pictures right after scabs come off (about 1-2 weeks after the procedure). There's no way that patient looks the same several months later.

However, to get those results even with lighting effects is pretty good.

10 hours ago, JudgmentPuzzleheaded said:

man you are depressing, Im not blaming you, maybe reality is just that depressing.

in which case, why bother wasting time oin this treatment forum? if nothing works, why not just come to terms with it never changing and move on with life. 

Scar treatments are depressing mate. I am just realistic because I have had treatments(with success) but I know that the current treatments cannot produce significant improvement. Scars get better, less noticeable, but cannot be eliminated completely.

Never said that nothings works. Just that people are usually disappointed with lasers and suffer from issues way too long.

Sure mate, you can go on and have the recommended 3 sessions of fractional laser, be all red, blotchy and hyperpigmented  during the time of recovery and lets hope for the best. 

P.s.You are not the person to tell me what to do mate or what to write on the public forum  

@Amandafeel free to show photos of your successful laser treatments

It would be inspiring if there was a success thread on lasers but there isn't. Ernesto Ria still has all his scars as it can be seen on his IG account even though they look smoother. 

7 hours ago, Amanda Hall said:

Yes, I suffered from issues after laser treatment and I believe most people will.

You have to right to voice your opinion. I've let it be known that I have a different perspective than you.

Impressive results by Dr. H!

How much of this is due to the laser treatment and how much filler did this person get? Swelling from lasers make scars look really good. After my first aggressive treatment, I thought my scars improved 75%+. They ended up being on average about 15% after swelling went down - some scars went back to 0%.

Filler is a category that I'm not sure if I want to factor in in a doctor's success case. Fillers are temporary and can do wonders. But they are only temporary so there is an ongoing cost. Also, most doctors are capable of injecting fillers.

I'm guessing this person had subcision as well. Then you have to give Dr. H credit.

Yeah. It's like he has the mentality of"you're stuck with your scars so don't waste any more money."

We should all be leery of certain treatments and doctors but we can't put everything down. We have to emphasize the things that work and let fellow members know that they have hope but not sellthem false promises. Unfortunately, some treatments don't work for them, but they have options. Microneedling and RFMN (Infini) did crap for me but I persisted. Peels didn't help my scars. Non-ablative lasers wasted my money. But fractional CO2 treaments helped me and I'm nearing the end of my journey if I can fix a few scars.

Yes, it's always misleading to take pictures right after scabs come off (about 1-2 weeks after the procedure). There's no way that patient looks the same several months later.

However, to get those results even with lighting effects is pretty good.

IWho isn't stuck with their scars, Amanda? Please show me. It is not about money at all. It is about living your life enjoying your life without having to do aggressive treatments which will not do much or will only bring slight to at best moderate improvement. If you are willing to sacrifice 6 months of your life for marginal improvement I am not. I am way beyond the point now where laser doctors can sell me the false hopes of 90% or even 60% improvement from aggressive lasers. Maybe some newbie will fall for it and be disappointed in the end. After 3 years of researching treatments and getting treatments myself this much I know. Maybe I am wrong. Feel free to prove me wrong, I have said this before, but you cannot show any good results from lasers, can you? Unlike you for me the trade off - one or two improved scars for more scars and hyperpigmentation - is not an option. Do you even have sever scars or are you just having a few scars here and there and are striving for perfect skin?

@JaysonC

Everyone is here on this forum for advice, knowledge, sharing stories of success / failure.

I can of assume you had doctors that said you will get 90% improvements and you didn't. I guess for you treatment is only worth paying for if it is 60+% improvement?

It makes people that are looking for some kind of improvement, any at all,doubt the treatments and not even try. For some people any improvement will bebetter than nothing.

Inform others about treatment and what to expect. The way you say things makes it seem like you are saying don't get treatment it's not worth it because you won't get 90% improvement.