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rey de reyes

What has happened this forum1?

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Before I give any information on my skin, I would like to know what has happened to this site. I am no site moderator or admin but i'm curious as to why this site has kinda skewed away from combating the source of the problem, rather than just the system. This is kinda of a rant because i'm fed up with people giving false information, like prescribing or cream, or just suggesting a regimen that they have not even tried for themselves. I am speaking about some, but it feels like everyone when you are trying to actually seek some serious help after being betrayed by your body, scarring so bad that you do not even recognize yourself. This may not be the best time or place but it needs to addressed ASAP and promptly. You may be asking to yourself, what is he trying to say? What I'm saying is why are people posting nonsense, isn't this forum for scars/marks? Lately I'm seeing one or two unnoticeable scars, and people are being over overdramatic. there should be more focus and help on people with moderate and severe acne scarring. If you say there is not help for them because they are scarred to the point where it seems unfixable, then you are greatly blinded. Share your experience, indulge others with you knowledge. It just feels like your the only one with really bad acne scarring when 90 percent of time you are seeing people with mild to almost no scarring on this site. Even in public I see that crap, I'm here thinking, am the only one with scar, lol? I need more people I can relate to here. Obviously we all have different skin, types of scars, gender, ethnic background, but at the end we all have scars from a stupid disease, yes I said disease because It is one. Acne is a disease, bacterial infection, mostly genetic, which basically mess with you in all areas. I don't need to go in depth. Now to ease the mood, I would like to someday not depend on medicine, surgeries, or any supplements to combat acne or acne scars. Mine are moderate but I feel as if I have severe. It hurts like hell; face is covered with redness as well. I need some good help, but first open a short discussion or response on my first point. Address any way you seem fit. Lastly, I would like some good help on scars, since my projected dream is not reality, all the things I mentioned are welcome, but explain why you would recommend them. 
 

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Many people on here aren't really "suffering" at all. They think a few pimples/minor scars are "acne" and "scarring".

Yes! That's what I don't comprehend brother. When I see most of the picture in this forum or even in this site for that matter, it is only a a few pimples or marks then and there. There should be priority on people who need help, dermatologists are not always going to have the answer, mainly because most of them never experienced what it truly means to suffer with acne. Don't get me wrong, some probably have had their sudden breakouts in high school or college, but never something so severe where a strong drug potent like accutane was needed.They are just there to make good money off people. Sigh...capitalism at its finest. Too much selfishness in the world. I would give all my assests just to have my clear, flawless skin. Well heck with it, I would just be happy with a face without scars, I am man after all, few marks or robust features don't bother me.

 

Edited by rey de reyes

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It's not about envy or anything, It just I hate when people overreact. I am actually happy for those people that obtain clear skin, just don's go on saying you are or have "suffered"

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I've been calling this s**t out for a while now.  It irritates me like nothing else when I see these phony, disingenuous posts about non-existent acne scars.  I think these people know their skin is fine, but post anyway for validation or they're fishing for compliments by acting devastated.  It makes the people who are really suffering feel even more hopeless, like "if these people think that's bad then I must be disfigured."

It's offensive and insults the intelligence of the rest of the forum.

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Yes bro, but this is the world we live today. It is the same reason why we are still miles away from reaching our goals, or anyone who has suffered too. We need to really get down to business so we can end acne for good so there won't be any need for special drugs like accutane or dermabrasion. Its simple: Acne=Acne Scars. Although acne scars can be deviated from it's course, Acne cannot because Diet alone will not work magic, there are other factors involved. I'm not going to elaborate more on that because everyone knows already. There should be more research, more experts, or just people with good experience that actually CARE. Let's keep the dream alive. #Projectwanttoliveanormallife.

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Ah I haven't really seen any posts like what you just described here... but I kinda understand where you guys are coming from... 

I've actually met people like those before (not here) who moan about how bad their skin is but they really only have minor problems, and their skin looks waaaaay better than mine. It's hard not to take any offence when they complain about their so-called nightmare whether it's intentional or not lol ;S 

And I agree about having more research done to study acne... Maybe they already have people who are working on it.. but I feel that they should have come up with something by now... :S Then again, acne is such a complex issue...  so maybe that's why we still don't have the real cure yet. 
 

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And I agree about having more research done to study acne... Maybe they already have people who are working on it.. but I feel that they should have come up with something by now... :S Then again, acne is such a complex issue...  so maybe that's why we still don't have the real cure yet. 
 

We know wrong diet is the main cause of acne. We know how it affects metabolism, we know how it affects hormones, insulin, sebum and inflammation, we pretty much know the complete pathway and we know the cure.

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I know my skin looks good on my profile pic, but behind the extreme filter I had some severe scars(A lot better now). Anyways, I only visit this forum when I'm depressed or when I'm thinking about my scars. I would never think about visiting this forum or even think about the misery I've been through on those rare happy days. So I think all the happy people who had their scars fixed have moved on with their life, and never looked back.

Edited by Tadamasa

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Good points gents! :). Hope is being restored in this forum. I'm not seeking fame or attention, I just want a solution to all of our problems. Esney3, I agree somewhat but i seen people with excellent diet since their toddler years get acne: moderate acne. Acne is essentially man-made, and i say that on a curve because nature has been her for years, but we as human have been destroying it. So you can say that acne can be genetic and environmental but do not quote me on that because it is mere speculation. Now as for people trying to find the cure; if they wanted to find one, then they could. But as I've been reading in many posts; where there is no money involved, then why bother. Acne like so many other diseases can be cured. Diet in Food is not like it was back decades ago, with the chemically processes and artificial flavors. I wish I could rely on today's food but nothing is natural these days unless you own a farm and grow your own food. Why do you think Acne is getting worse and more common, because as I said before, people are messing up the environment. That is why I want more research to be done, it is only fair scientists try fix a problem that the human race has created.

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Im happy to see of the amount of replies. I thought i would only get one, or none for that matter. The truth always hurts, i'm speaking on experience. There is a point where you just get sick of everything. Having Acne for more than 5 years, and then having to live with the aftermath which is the scar is freaking depressing. Feel free to send me messages so we can chat.

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And I agree about having more research done to study acne... Maybe they already have people who are working on it.. but I feel that they should have come up with something by now... :S Then again, acne is such a complex issue...  so maybe that's why we still don't have the real cure yet. 
 

We know wrong diet is the main cause of acne. We know how it affects metabolism, we know how it affects hormones, insulin, sebum and inflammation, we pretty much know the complete pathway and we know the cure.

Agree but there are other factors that contribute to acne and it's very different for everyone. What works for you may not work for others, and vice versa.

Acne is a very complex thing and I believe there's more to research on and that there's more information we could get than what we have right now. 

Edited by Ari Abdul

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This forum has always been like this! That's why I left for a long time. 

One time this guy thought he had pimples on his penis and posted a picture of it on here!!! 

 

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And I agree about having more research done to study acne... Maybe they already have people who are working on it.. but I feel that they should have come up with something by now... :S Then again, acne is such a complex issue...  so maybe that's why we still don't have the real cure yet. 
 

We know wrong diet is the main cause of acne. We know how it affects metabolism, we know how it affects hormones, insulin, sebum and inflammation, we pretty much know the complete pathway and we know the cure.

I was living on a strict candida diet for more than 6 months (that means mostly high quality meat, green veggies, the only thing I could cook with was coconut oil). Nothing was allowed, coffee, fruits, no nuts... I think I was allowed to eat cinnamon maybe once a week in my tea or something. Exercise everyday (jogging and yoga mostly). It was very intense. It was very hard. I did it for my skin, and it did nothing. I still eat healthy (veggies juices, broths etc) but I make sprouted flour breads and stuff (still no sugar) and have added in coffee. So, essentially, I no longer eat processed stuff, heated vegetable oils, sugar etc. On one hand, yes I am very healthy today... But during that strict period all my problems got worse I was very stressed and psychologically it was very hard to live like that. I hate that because one has acne that person has to deprive themselves, like it is their fault. No, I'm done with that.

Some might have acne connected to diet. That is, remove dairy, low GI, etc, for a couple of weeks or something to try it out. That is fine, but this diet thing has gone too far. Not all have acne that is connected to diet and saying so can hurt people who will do anything for their own health. 

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And I agree about having more research done to study acne... Maybe they already have people who are working on it.. but I feel that they should have come up with something by now... :S Then again, acne is such a complex issue...  so maybe that's why we still don't have the real cure yet. 
 

We know wrong diet is the main cause of acne. We know how it affects metabolism, we know how it affects hormones, insulin, sebum and inflammation, we pretty much know the complete pathway and we know the cure.

I was living on a strict candida diet for more than 6 months (that means mostly high quality meat, green veggies, the only thing I could cook with was coconut oil). Nothing was allowed, coffee, fruits, no nuts... I think I was allowed to eat cinnamon maybe once a week in my tea or something. Exercise everyday (jogging and yoga mostly). It was very intense. It was very hard. I did it for my skin, and it did nothing. I still eat healthy (veggies juices, broths etc) but I make sprouted flour breads and stuff (still no sugar) and have added in coffee. So, essentially, I no longer eat processed stuff, heated vegetable oils, sugar etc. On one hand, yes I am very healthy today... But during that strict period all my problems got worse I was very stressed and psychologically it was very hard to live like that. I hate that because one has acne that person has to deprive themselves, like it is their fault. No, I'm done with that.

Some might have acne connected to diet. That is, remove dairy, low GI, etc, for a couple of weeks or something to try it out. That is fine, but this diet thing has gone too far. Not all have acne that is connected to diet and saying so can hurt people who will do anything for their own health. 

I am just passing on what science is telling us. There has been 25 observational studies made since 1946, in 3 of those studies they have found no link between acne and diet. in 22 papers there is a clear link between acne and diet. There has been 10 clinical trials made since 1965, in 6 there is a link between diet and acne, in 4 no link(all 4 was made in the 60' and 70' and 3 of them is laughable). Since the year 2000 there has been 21 studies (observational and clinical) published, 19 found a link between diet and acne, 2 did not.

So saying "We know wrong diet is the main cause of acne" Is according to science spot on.



The problem with your own diet,may have been saturated fat, which is the last factor besides dairy and low GI. Science also has told us dietary changes to resolve acne may first begin to take effect after week 10.

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Science has flaws, if they were spot on they would have a cure by now but they don't. People are so gullible , stop depending so much on Science to fix this problem. Diet is not the only factor that can cause Acne! It is not the main cause either. I was wish it was true so I can give my future kids the right healthy diet. Acne is so complex :(. What we need to prioritize is to end moderate to severe acne because those stages of Acne is what are obviously causing the most scarring whether treated or not. Then after we do that we can go for Mild Acne so we can defeat Acne for good. I am talking from experience, Im just tired of this shit!. There have been decades that people have already been suffering with this terrible disease and nothing has been done. Only stupid side affect drugs and pills....accutane..cough...cough. My goal is to enter the medical field and try to do more research on stupid Acne, and I am determine to end it alllll1!!!!!!!
 

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And I agree about having more research done to study acne... Maybe they already have people who are working on it.. but I feel that they should have come up with something by now... :S Then again, acne is such a complex issue...  so maybe that's why we still don't have the real cure yet. 
 

We know wrong diet is the main cause of acne. We know how it affects metabolism, we know how it affects hormones, insulin, sebum and inflammation, we pretty much know the complete pathway and we know the cure.

I was living on a strict candida diet for more than 6 months (that means mostly high quality meat, green veggies, the only thing I could cook with was coconut oil). Nothing was allowed, coffee, fruits, no nuts... I think I was allowed to eat cinnamon maybe once a week in my tea or something. Exercise everyday (jogging and yoga mostly). It was very intense. It was very hard. I did it for my skin, and it did nothing. I still eat healthy (veggies juices, broths etc) but I make sprouted flour breads and stuff (still no sugar) and have added in coffee. So, essentially, I no longer eat processed stuff, heated vegetable oils, sugar etc. On one hand, yes I am very healthy today... But during that strict period all my problems got worse I was very stressed and psychologically it was very hard to live like that. I hate that because one has acne that person has to deprive themselves, like it is their fault. No, I'm done with that.

Some might have acne connected to diet. That is, remove dairy, low GI, etc, for a couple of weeks or something to try it out. That is fine, but this diet thing has gone too far. Not all have acne that is connected to diet and saying so can hurt people who will do anything for their own health. 

This tbh.

And like I said in my previous post. Acne is very complex. What works for some may not work for others. For some, diet may play a big role... And for others, their acne may be caused by environmental factors, or a combination. I think it's hard to fully pinpoint what exactly it is that is causing a person to get acne unless it's done with a lot of trials and errors. 

lol At least you're very healthy! :)

 



And I agree about having more research done to study acne... Maybe they already have people who are working on it.. but I feel that they should have come up with something by now... :S Then again, acne is such a complex issue...  so maybe that's why we still don't have the real cure yet. 
 

We know wrong diet is the main cause of acne. We know how it affects metabolism, we know how it affects hormones, insulin, sebum and inflammation, we pretty much know the complete pathway and we know the cure.

I was living on a strict candida diet for more than 6 months (that means mostly high quality meat, green veggies, the only thing I could cook with was coconut oil). Nothing was allowed, coffee, fruits, no nuts... I think I was allowed to eat cinnamon maybe once a week in my tea or something. Exercise everyday (jogging and yoga mostly). It was very intense. It was very hard. I did it for my skin, and it did nothing. I still eat healthy (veggies juices, broths etc) but I make sprouted flour breads and stuff (still no sugar) and have added in coffee. So, essentially, I no longer eat processed stuff, heated vegetable oils, sugar etc. On one hand, yes I am very healthy today... But during that strict period all my problems got worse I was very stressed and psychologically it was very hard to live like that. I hate that because one has acne that person has to deprive themselves, like it is their fault. No, I'm done with that.

Some might have acne connected to diet. That is, remove dairy, low GI, etc, for a couple of weeks or something to try it out. That is fine, but this diet thing has gone too far. Not all have acne that is connected to diet and saying so can hurt people who will do anything for their own health. 

I am just passing on what science is telling us. There has been 25 observational studies made since 1946, in 3 of those studies they have found no link between acne and diet. in 22 papers there is a clear link between acne and diet. There has been 10 clinical trials made since 1965, in 6 there is a link between diet and acne, in 4 no link(all 4 was made in the 60' and 70' and 3 of them is laughable). Since the year 2000 there has been 21 studies (observational and clinical) published, 19 found a link between diet and acne, 2 did not.

So saying "We know wrong diet is the main cause of acne" Is according to science spot on.



The problem with your own diet,may have been saturated fat, which is the last factor besides dairy and low GI. Science also has told us dietary changes to resolve acne may first begin to take effect after week 10.

Based on those studies, it's not 100% that acne is linked to diet. 

Having said that, I do believe that having acne is a way your body is telling you that there's something wrong from within.

So I guess it's about knowing what is inside of you that is wrong and having a diet that could remedy that.

I've read that having a healthy gut could solve the problem. So taking probiotics or anything that heals the gut might clear the skin. But that's only if you have a leaky/unhealthy gut.

It could be too much consumption of saturated fat, like you said or etc. 

Dietary changes may help, but knowing what they are is the most important I believe... 

And I still believe there's more to research though. 



 

Edited by Ari Abdul

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And I agree about having more research done to study acne... Maybe they already have people who are working on it.. but I feel that they should have come up with something by now... :S Then again, acne is such a complex issue...  so maybe that's why we still don't have the real cure yet. 
 

We know wrong diet is the main cause of acne. We know how it affects metabolism, we know how it affects hormones, insulin, sebum and inflammation, we pretty much know the complete pathway and we know the cure.

I was living on a strict candida diet for more than 6 months (that means mostly high quality meat, green veggies, the only thing I could cook with was coconut oil). Nothing was allowed, coffee, fruits, no nuts... I think I was allowed to eat cinnamon maybe once a week in my tea or something. Exercise everyday (jogging and yoga mostly). It was very intense. It was very hard. I did it for my skin, and it did nothing. I still eat healthy (veggies juices, broths etc) but I make sprouted flour breads and stuff (still no sugar) and have added in coffee. So, essentially, I no longer eat processed stuff, heated vegetable oils, sugar etc. On one hand, yes I am very healthy today... But during that strict period all my problems got worse I was very stressed and psychologically it was very hard to live like that. I hate that because one has acne that person has to deprive themselves, like it is their fault. No, I'm done with that.

Some might have acne connected to diet. That is, remove dairy, low GI, etc, for a couple of weeks or something to try it out. That is fine, but this diet thing has gone too far. Not all have acne that is connected to diet and saying so can hurt people who will do anything for their own health. 

I am just passing on what science is telling us. There has been 25 observational studies made since 1946, in 3 of those studies they have found no link between acne and diet. in 22 papers there is a clear link between acne and diet. There has been 10 clinical trials made since 1965, in 6 there is a link between diet and acne, in 4 no link(all 4 was made in the 60' and 70' and 3 of them is laughable). Since the year 2000 there has been 21 studies (observational and clinical) published, 19 found a link between diet and acne, 2 did not.

So saying "We know wrong diet is the main cause of acne" Is according to science spot on.



The problem with your own diet,may have been saturated fat, which is the last factor besides dairy and low GI. Science also has told us dietary changes to resolve acne may first begin to take effect after week 10.



And science is not clear yet whether it is THE cause or if it is just contributing to the inflammation process. They have found a correlation in some cases, but a correlation does not mean causation. There are so many other factors involved. 

Saying diet is the only cause is simply not true. 

 

Edited by il90

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And I agree about having more research done to study acne... Maybe they already have people who are working on it.. but I feel that they should have come up with something by now... :S Then again, acne is such a complex issue...  so maybe that's why we still don't have the real cure yet. 
 

We know wrong diet is the main cause of acne. We know how it affects metabolism, we know how it affects hormones, insulin, sebum and inflammation, we pretty much know the complete pathway and we know the cure.

I was living on a strict candida diet for more than 6 months (that means mostly high quality meat, green veggies, the only thing I could cook with was coconut oil). Nothing was allowed, coffee, fruits, no nuts... I think I was allowed to eat cinnamon maybe once a week in my tea or something. Exercise everyday (jogging and yoga mostly). It was very intense. It was very hard. I did it for my skin, and it did nothing. I still eat healthy (veggies juices, broths etc) but I make sprouted flour breads and stuff (still no sugar) and have added in coffee. So, essentially, I no longer eat processed stuff, heated vegetable oils, sugar etc. On one hand, yes I am very healthy today... But during that strict period all my problems got worse I was very stressed and psychologically it was very hard to live like that. I hate that because one has acne that person has to deprive themselves, like it is their fault. No, I'm done with that.

Some might have acne connected to diet. That is, remove dairy, low GI, etc, for a couple of weeks or something to try it out. That is fine, but this diet thing has gone too far. Not all have acne that is connected to diet and saying so can hurt people who will do anything for their own health. 

I am just passing on what science is telling us. There has been 25 observational studies made since 1946, in 3 of those studies they have found no link between acne and diet. in 22 papers there is a clear link between acne and diet. There has been 10 clinical trials made since 1965, in 6 there is a link between diet and acne, in 4 no link(all 4 was made in the 60' and 70' and 3 of them is laughable). Since the year 2000 there has been 21 studies (observational and clinical) published, 19 found a link between diet and acne, 2 did not.

So saying "We know wrong diet is the main cause of acne" Is according to science spot on.



The problem with your own diet,may have been saturated fat, which is the last factor besides dairy and low GI. Science also has told us dietary changes to resolve acne may first begin to take effect after week 10.

Yes.. It takes 10 weeks at least because that is how long acne takes to form... I waited more than 30 weeks. 

I think diet is involved in the inflammation process while hormones are involved with the 'clogging' process (hormonal imbalance can also arise because of diet but more so of extreme long term stress and other environmental factors or genetics). So if you don't have clogged pores (you can't see these) you can eat whatever you want but if you do you can't because a bad diet might make them inflamed. This is why people are able to eat stuff that they couldn't while they had acne. 

In short, It is more complicated. 

Honestly, telling me oh perhaps it is that or perhaps it is saturated fats... Are you honestly telling me that if I took out saturated fats (which would have left me with very little to eat at that point) my acne would mysteriously disappear? I eat TONS of saturated fats today and I have no acne. Saturated fat from animals is very good for you, I get tons of it from broth, gelatin, organic butter and coconut oil. 

I had acne because I had an eating disorder along with post traumatic stress for some time which resulted in messed up hormones... I had acne but I also had a ton of other hormonal issues. 

A lot of people have also corrected acne from fixing vitamin deficiencies (juicing vegetables everyday, taking vitamin D supplements - cod liver oil) which I believe is more important than focusing on taking so much out of your diet (saturated fats, omega 6 oils, carbs, additatives, sugar, fruits etc). Your body should be able to handle all of this, such as it does when you live with a lot of industrial pollution (we all do), if it has everything it needs.

So, instead of taking out more and more foods out of your diet, one should add up enough that they see to it that they get everything they need (all minerals, vitamins and omegas) perhaps even more than they need until they start seeing progress. If this is even their problem to begin with but at least eating healthy will be good for your health. 

Going on the candida diet was the worst thing I could have done for myself, I needed carbs in the form of root veggies, natural sugars from fruits, sprouted grains, and cheese to get better. My health just got worse and worse. I feel sooo good today and I am so much more relaxed with my diet. 

I know a lot of people get acne from dairy, but I don't understand why since some don't. I don't. I took it out for years, and now eat it all the time without problems. Dairy (raw) is actually very good for your health and teeth (great source of vitamin k2 mk4 that you can only get from liver or fish eggs otherwise - some say a vital vitamin for bone formation). Although I only eat goat and sheep cheese but I would think it would be the same thing. 

And science is not clear yet whether it is THE cause or if it is just contributing to the inflammation process. They have found a correlation in some cases, but a correlation does not mean causation. There are so many other factors involved. For instance,  focusing on diet if it is too strict might be counterproductive causing stress that might be a bigger factor in the first place. Or, perhaps it is hormonal (female) - such as PCOS, Endo - and diet won't remove excess hormones - that is not how it works - it might make you healthier and your body might be able to handle these excess hormones better but not enough (considering other factors such as pollution, water contamination, etc that you can't possible remove).

Saying diet is the only cause is simply not true. 

 

1. I've never said diet is the only cause of acne, I've said diet is the MAIN cause of acne!

2. The reason I wrote 10 weeks is because you recommended people to go on a diet low in GI and dairy for a couple of week. My response to this statement is that any dietary inventions should at least be 10 weeks long. I wasn't talking about you, and your 30 weeks on saturated fat in relation to this.

3. SCIENCE is telling you saturated fat can upregulate mTORc1 and therefore cause acne.
"
This study examined the effect of three types of FFAs, saturated, monounsaturated and polyunsaturated FFAs, on podocyte apoptosis. Palmitate, a saturated FFA, induced endoplasmic reticulum (ER) stress-dependent apoptosis in podocytes. Oleate, a monounsaturated FFA, and eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), an ω-3 polyunsaturated FFA did not induce apoptosis; rather, they antagonized palmitate-induced apoptosis. Palmitate activated mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR) complex 1 (mTORC1), a nutrient-sensing kinase regulating a wide range of cell biology." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24726883 

4. "(..)but more so of extreme long term stress and other environmental factors or genetics" Sorry but this is just pure hearsay. There is no scientific evidence to back this up.

5. A lot of people may think  they have corrected acne by fixing vitamin deficiencies, candida and so on on dietary inventions which would also take care of the mTORc1 hyper-activation and therefore fix acne.

6. Your body should be able to eat some crap like saturated fat, high GI carbs, sugar and dairy, but not if your mTORc1 protein complex is is overdrive, unless you want acne, insulin resistance, diabetes type 2, alzheimers, cardiovascular disease, several types of cancer, hair loss, PCOS etc.  

7. " And science is not clear yet whether it is THE cause or if it is just contributing to the inflammation process." This is completely false. Like I said:
"We know how it affects metabolism, we know how it affects hormones, insulin, sebum and inflammation, we pretty much know the complete pathway and we know the cure."

8. "Or, perhaps it is hormonal (female) - such as PCOS, Endo - and diet won't remove excess hormones - that is not how it works"
Well.. :D A diet low in saturated fat and low glycemic carbs will lower DHT and up SHBG and thus resolve PCOS. Soo yeah that is exactly how it works.


I will end my part of this discussion with the complete pathway to acne:
"Western diet provides abundant branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs), glutamine, and palmitic acid. Insulin and IGF-1 suppress the activity of the metabolic transcription factor forkhead box O1 (FoxO1). Insulin, IGF-1, BCAAs, glutamine, and palmitate activate the nutrient-sensitive kinase mechanistic target of rapamycin complex 1 (mTORC1), the key regulator of anabolism and lipogenesis. FoxO1 is a negative coregulator of androgen receptor, peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-γ (PPARγ), liver X receptor-α, and sterol response element binding protein-1c (SREBP-1c), crucial transcription factors of sebaceous lipogenesis. mTORC1 stimulates the expression of PPARγ and SREBP-1c, promoting sebum production. SREBP-1c upregulates stearoyl-CoA- and Δ6-desaturase, enhancing the proportion of monounsaturated fatty acids in sebum triglycerides. Diet-mediated aberrations in sebum quantity (hyperseborrhea) and composition (dysseborrhea) promote Propionibacterium acnes overgrowth and biofilm formation with overexpression of the virulence factor triglyceride lipase increasing follicular levels of free palmitate and oleate. Free palmitate functions as a “danger signal,” stimulating toll-like receptor-2-mediated inflammasome activation with interleukin-1β release, Th17 differentiation, and interleukin-17-mediated keratinocyte proliferation. Oleate stimulates P. acnes adhesion, keratinocyte proliferation, and comedogenesis via interleukin-1α release. Thus, diet-induced metabolomic alterations promote the visible sebofollicular inflammasomopathy acne vulgaris. Nutrition therapy of acne has to increase FoxO1 and to attenuate mTORC1/SREBP-1c signaling. Patients should balance total calorie uptake and restrict refined carbohydrates, milk, dairy protein supplements, saturated fats, and trans-fats. A paleolithic-like diet enriched in vegetables and fish is recommended. Plant-derived mTORC1 inhibitors and ω-3-PUFAs are promising dietary supplements supporting nutrition therapy of acne vulgaris." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4507494/

As a law student  there is only one thing left to say: The defense rest its case ;) 

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And I agree about having more research done to study acne... Maybe they already have people who are working on it.. but I feel that they should have come up with something by now... :S Then again, acne is such a complex issue...  so maybe that's why we still don't have the real cure yet. 
 

We know wrong diet is the main cause of acne. We know how it affects metabolism, we know how it affects hormones, insulin, sebum and inflammation, we pretty much know the complete pathway and we know the cure.

I was living on a strict candida diet for more than 6 months (that means mostly high quality meat, green veggies, the only thing I could cook with was coconut oil). Nothing was allowed, coffee, fruits, no nuts... I think I was allowed to eat cinnamon maybe once a week in my tea or something. Exercise everyday (jogging and yoga mostly). It was very intense. It was very hard. I did it for my skin, and it did nothing. I still eat healthy (veggies juices, broths etc) but I make sprouted flour breads and stuff (still no sugar) and have added in coffee. So, essentially, I no longer eat processed stuff, heated vegetable oils, sugar etc. On one hand, yes I am very healthy today... But during that strict period all my problems got worse I was very stressed and psychologically it was very hard to live like that. I hate that because one has acne that person has to deprive themselves, like it is their fault. No, I'm done with that.

Some might have acne connected to diet. That is, remove dairy, low GI, etc, for a couple of weeks or something to try it out. That is fine, but this diet thing has gone too far. Not all have acne that is connected to diet and saying so can hurt people who will do anything for their own health. 

I am just passing on what science is telling us. There has been 25 observational studies made since 1946, in 3 of those studies they have found no link between acne and diet. in 22 papers there is a clear link between acne and diet. There has been 10 clinical trials made since 1965, in 6 there is a link between diet and acne, in 4 no link(all 4 was made in the 60' and 70' and 3 of them is laughable). Since the year 2000 there has been 21 studies (observational and clinical) published, 19 found a link between diet and acne, 2 did not.

So saying "We know wrong diet is the main cause of acne" Is according to science spot on.



The problem with your own diet,may have been saturated fat, which is the last factor besides dairy and low GI. Science also has told us dietary changes to resolve acne may first begin to take effect after week 10.

Yes.. It takes 10 weeks at least because that is how long acne takes to form... I waited more than 30 weeks. 

I think diet is involved in the inflammation process while hormones are involved with the 'clogging' process (hormonal imbalance can also arise because of diet but more so of extreme long term stress and other environmental factors or genetics). So if you don't have clogged pores (you can't see these) you can eat whatever you want but if you do you can't because a bad diet might make them inflamed. This is why people are able to eat stuff that they couldn't while they had acne. 

In short, It is more complicated. 

Honestly, telling me oh perhaps it is that or perhaps it is saturated fats... Are you honestly telling me that if I took out saturated fats (which would have left me with very little to eat at that point) my acne would mysteriously disappear? I eat TONS of saturated fats today and I have no acne. Saturated fat from animals is very good for you, I get tons of it from broth, gelatin, organic butter and coconut oil. 

I had acne because I had an eating disorder along with post traumatic stress for some time which resulted in messed up hormones... I had acne but I also had a ton of other hormonal issues. 

A lot of people have also corrected acne from fixing vitamin deficiencies (juicing vegetables everyday, taking vitamin D supplements - cod liver oil) which I believe is more important than focusing on taking so much out of your diet (saturated fats, omega 6 oils, carbs, additatives, sugar, fruits etc). Your body should be able to handle all of this, such as it does when you live with a lot of industrial pollution (we all do), if it has everything it needs.

So, instead of taking out more and more foods out of your diet, one should add up enough that they see to it that they get everything they need (all minerals, vitamins and omegas) perhaps even more than they need until they start seeing progress. If this is even their problem to begin with but at least eating healthy will be good for your health. 

Going on the candida diet was the worst thing I could have done for myself, I needed carbs in the form of root veggies, natural sugars from fruits, sprouted grains, and cheese to get better. My health just got worse and worse. I feel sooo good today and I am so much more relaxed with my diet. 

I know a lot of people get acne from dairy, but I don't understand why since some don't. I don't. I took it out for years, and now eat it all the time without problems. Dairy (raw) is actually very good for your health and teeth (great source of vitamin k2 mk4 that you can only get from liver or fish eggs otherwise - some say a vital vitamin for bone formation). Although I only eat goat and sheep cheese but I would think it would be the same thing. 

And science is not clear yet whether it is THE cause or if it is just contributing to the inflammation process. They have found a correlation in some cases, but a correlation does not mean causation. There are so many other factors involved. For instance,  focusing on diet if it is too strict might be counterproductive causing stress that might be a bigger factor in the first place. Or, perhaps it is hormonal (female) - such as PCOS, Endo - and diet won't remove excess hormones - that is not how it works - it might make you healthier and your body might be able to handle these excess hormones better but not enough (considering other factors such as pollution, water contamination, etc that you can't possible remove).

Saying diet is the only cause is simply not true. 

 

1. I've never said diet is the only cause of acne, I've said diet is the MAIN cause of acne!

2. The reason I wrote 10 weeks is because you recommended people to go on a diet low in GI and dairy for a couple of week. My response to this statement is that any dietary inventions should at least be 10 weeks long. I wasn't talking about you, and your 30 weeks on saturated fat in relation to this.

3. SCIENCE is telling you saturated fat can upregulate mTORc1 and therefore cause acne.
"
This study examined the effect of three types of FFAs, saturated, monounsaturated and polyunsaturated FFAs, on podocyte apoptosis. Palmitate, a saturated FFA, induced endoplasmic reticulum (ER) stress-dependent apoptosis in podocytes. Oleate, a monounsaturated FFA, and eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), an ω-3 polyunsaturated FFA did not induce apoptosis; rather, they antagonized palmitate-induced apoptosis. Palmitate activated mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR) complex 1 (mTORC1), a nutrient-sensing kinase regulating a wide range of cell biology." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24726883 

4. "(..)but more so of extreme long term stress and other environmental factors or genetics" Sorry but this is just pure hearsay. There is no scientific evidence to back this up.

5. A lot of people may think  they have corrected acne by fixing vitamin deficiencies, candida and so on on dietary inventions which would also take care of the mTORc1 hyper-activation and therefore fix acne.

6. Your body should be able to eat some crap like saturated fat, high GI carbs, sugar and dairy, but not if your mTORc1 protein complex is is overdrive, unless you want acne, insulin resistance, diabetes type 2, alzheimers, cardiovascular disease, several types of cancer, hair loss, PCOS etc.  

7. " And science is not clear yet whether it is THE cause or if it is just contributing to the inflammation process." This is completely false. Like I said:
"We know how it affects metabolism, we know how it affects hormones, insulin, sebum and inflammation, we pretty much know the complete pathway and we know the cure."

8. "Or, perhaps it is hormonal (female) - such as PCOS, Endo - and diet won't remove excess hormones - that is not how it works"
Well.. :D A diet low in saturated fat and low glycemic carbs will lower DHT and up SHBG and thus resolve PCOS. Soo yeah that is exactly how it works.


I will end my part of this discussion with the complete pathway to acne:
"Western diet provides abundant branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs), glutamine, and palmitic acid. Insulin and IGF-1 suppress the activity of the metabolic transcription factor forkhead box O1 (FoxO1). Insulin, IGF-1, BCAAs, glutamine, and palmitate activate the nutrient-sensitive kinase mechanistic target of rapamycin complex 1 (mTORC1), the key regulator of anabolism and lipogenesis. FoxO1 is a negative coregulator of androgen receptor, peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-γ (PPARγ), liver X receptor-α, and sterol response element binding protein-1c (SREBP-1c), crucial transcription factors of sebaceous lipogenesis. mTORC1 stimulates the expression of PPARγ and SREBP-1c, promoting sebum production. SREBP-1c upregulates stearoyl-CoA- and Δ6-desaturase, enhancing the proportion of monounsaturated fatty acids in sebum triglycerides. Diet-mediated aberrations in sebum quantity (hyperseborrhea) and composition (dysseborrhea) promote Propionibacterium acnes overgrowth and biofilm formation with overexpression of the virulence factor triglyceride lipase increasing follicular levels of free palmitate and oleate. Free palmitate functions as a “danger signal,” stimulating toll-like receptor-2-mediated inflammasome activation with interleukin-1β release, Th17 differentiation, and interleukin-17-mediated keratinocyte proliferation. Oleate stimulates P. acnes adhesion, keratinocyte proliferation, and comedogenesis via interleukin-1α release. Thus, diet-induced metabolomic alterations promote the visible sebofollicular inflammasomopathy acne vulgaris. Nutrition therapy of acne has to increase FoxO1 and to attenuate mTORC1/SREBP-1c signaling. Patients should balance total calorie uptake and restrict refined carbohydrates, milk, dairy protein supplements, saturated fats, and trans-fats. A paleolithic-like diet enriched in vegetables and fish is recommended. Plant-derived mTORC1 inhibitors and ω-3-PUFAs are promising dietary supplements supporting nutrition therapy of acne vulgaris." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4507494/

As a law student  there is only one thing left to say: The defense rest its case ;) 

 

1. I've never said diet is the only cause of acne, I've said diet is the MAIN cause of acne!
 


Wow, really, you know the cure? You should definitely start spreading the word. I bet lots of people haven't yet tried this. I'm sure you're the only one that knows how to google up some studies on acne. 

Also, you should go to PCOS and Endo forums to tell everyone that if they take out saturated fats they will be cured (most have already taken out simple carbs, dairy, and omega 6 vegetable oils). Saturated fats, that our ancestors have eaten for centuries without problems that could possible be vital to our health. 

I wonder what someone who is allergic to fish should do though, perhaps hope that he/she won't die of malnutrition while living on spinach? 

I wish you luck in your endeavors. 
 

Edited by il90

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Wow, really, you know the cure? You should definitely start spreading the word. I bet lots of people haven't yet tried this. I'm sure you're the only one that knows how to google up some studies on acne. 

Also, you should go to PCOS and Endo forums to tell everyone that if they take out saturated fats they will be cured (most have already taken out simple carbs, dairy, and omega 6 vegetable oils). Saturated fats, that our ancestors have eaten for centuries without problems that could possible be vital to our health. 

I wonder what someone who is allergic to fish should do though, perhaps hope that he/she won't die of malnutrition while living on spinach? 

I wish you luck in your endeavors. 
 

I do not know if you've ever had PCOS in your life? I know a number of women who have spent years trying to get rid of it, with acne, not being able to conceive and with all those secondary disease. So when somebody brings well documented evidence of how to cure PCOS do you not think we should listen instead of making claims without some reference to anything? I myself have been on a keto diet, and although it helped my PCOS was only cured  when I switched saturated fat with unsaturated. And there are plenty of PCOS blogs and referrals all over the Internet to saturated fat is bad for women with PCOS. And if you can't eat fish, then eat something else there is plenty of foods to choose from. 

Here is a site called 'Nutrition Therapy for Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS)' from the McKinley Health Center under University of Illinois

Take a look at point five

  • Decreased fat intake, particularly saturated fat.
http://www.mckinley.illinois.edu/handouts/pcos.htm

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Fwiw, I kept a super strict diet for almost 8 months and I thoroughly regret wasting so much time on this nonsense. Yeah, it might help some people, but I'm convinced it doesn't cure moderate/severe acne, because that's what most people want, not some temporary improvement.

For 8 months I haven't had sugar, dairy, chips, fast-food, oceanic fish, high glycemic index food (none, 0), corn, eggs, bananas, grapes, nuts, almonds, soda, sweets, pasta, pizza, potatoes, white rice, foods rich in iodine etc., nothing, 0. Not a single cheat day, not a single bite or sip of what I wrote and it didn't do much, I was pretty clear for a few months on the diet (while I was taking antibiotics as well) and then the breakouts started getting worse and worse. I was also drinking 4L of water a day and exercising 5 days a week. Didn't tan either and I was using SPF 30 whenever I was going out.

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Fwiw, I kept a super strict diet for almost 8 months and I thoroughly regret wasting so much time on this nonsense. Yeah, it might help some people, but I'm convinced it doesn't cure moderate/severe acne, because that's what most people want, not some temporary improvement.

For 8 months I haven't had sugar, dairy, chips, fast-food, oceanic fish, high glycemic index food (none, 0), corn, eggs, bananas, grapes, nuts, almonds, soda, sweets, pasta, pizza, potatoes, white rice, foods rich in iodine etc., nothing, 0. Not a single cheat day, not a single bite or sip of what I wrote and it didn't do much, I was pretty clear for a few months on the diet (while I was taking antibiotics as well) and then the breakouts started getting worse and worse. I was also drinking 4L of water a day and exercising 5 days a week. Didn't tan either and I was using SPF 30 whenever I was going out.

Yup it may not work for some. 

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Fwiw, I kept a super strict diet for almost 8 months and I thoroughly regret wasting so much time on this nonsense. Yeah, it might help some people, but I'm convinced it doesn't cure moderate/severe acne, because that's what most people want, not some temporary improvement.

For 8 months I haven't had sugar, dairy, chips, fast-food, oceanic fish, high glycemic index food (none, 0), corn, eggs, bananas, grapes, nuts, almonds, soda, sweets, pasta, pizza, potatoes, white rice, foods rich in iodine etc., nothing, 0. Not a single cheat day, not a single bite or sip of what I wrote and it didn't do much, I was pretty clear for a few months on the diet (while I was taking antibiotics as well) and then the breakouts started getting worse and worse. I was also drinking 4L of water a day and exercising 5 days a week. Didn't tan either and I was using SPF 30 whenever I was going out.

I totally feel you. It's tiring, isn't it? This silly diet thing that many claim to be working. I tried it for a couple of weeks (no dairy, no sugar, more vegetables, more fruits, a reservoir of water every day) and it hardly improved my condition. If anything, it actually got worse! I'm beginning to refresh my memory now that I used to eat like anyone else (junk food, fried food, you name it) and my skin has had its good days. Yes, it actually had its good days! Phuck this diet thing. I'm going back to sugary stuff, milk glorious milk, pastries, coffee and everything else till kingdom come.

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Ever since I started using this website about two years ago its been absolutely overflowing with misinformation, unfortunately back then I didnt recognize it and I tried a lot of dumb shit. The ones that bug me most; 

1) Red marks are hyperpigmentation. No they are not, red marks are erythema. No amount of chemical peels will get rid of them. And in my personal experience, are likely to make them worse.

2) Lasers dont work. Actually, they do. My scars were wayyyyyy worse than most on this sub. They are so, so much better now. Probably undetectable to most unless in really bad lighting, so they dont really bother me anymore. Cost me about 7k in total, definitely worth it though. 

3) Accutane is super scary. Not really, its nothing in comparison to having severe acne. If you notice your acne is starting to scar, its probably time for accutane.

4) Putting honey, or some other shit on your face will cure your acne. It wont. 

Im very lucky in that I had a good doctor that was able to correct the majority of my scarring, and that I dont get acne anymore. I just come back here every once in a while to hopefully help one or two people because acne affected me very deeply, and it makes me sad to see it affecting others in the same way. It also frustrates me to see all the terrible misinformation that people spread around here. I honestly think this site should be looked at as more of a support group than a reliable source of info.

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