-misinterpreted your post upon first glance-

Try supplementing something now to help you treat your acne. Topical BP for example, maybe antibiotics. Although, i personally hate to say them because of resistance from noncompliance as well as the side effects, they do work short term if taken as directed. This gives you help when you and your body are transitioning from one thing to another in this case a change in birth control (or none at all).

I personally believe you have to ween your self off slowly (wthether that be antibiotics, creams, pills, or other treaments) and allow your body to do its work; the work its programmed to do. This of course takes time and is not liked as we like fixes now. Not months from now. But it can pay off.

Go get your hormones checked. My guess is that your estrogen levels are too high and/or your androgens are too high as well. Diane is estrogenic and will also help with progesterone, but it won't directly affect your androgens, which can also cause acne. Also, the longer you take diane, the more your estrogen levels can increase, which can cause a new set of problems. Checking your hormones at this point would give you an indication on what's causing your imbalance. When I was taking diane many years ago, I had to take an anti-androgen along with it. However, I still had estrogen dominance because diane was giving me more estrogen than I needed.

If you do get your hormones tested, do saliva testing so that they measure your fluctuations throughout the month, and get the full panel (including thyroid, insulin, and cortisol).

You can either get tested, and hope that you have some marker out of range to tell you what's going on.

Or else, you basically just go off the pill, see what happens, and if you get acne, do trial and error with other hormonal treatments (NPC, anti-androgens, etc.).

I think she has had tests. Many times.

I don't know what happened to my earlier attempt to reply. But you might look into the progestins in each of these pills and what they do as some are more androgenic than others, And the amount of estrogen. To get a clue as to what your issue might be. Maybe yaz worked for you and you need to consider what it was doing - boosting really low progesterone? Maybe you can try a bio identical progesterone cream? Boosting estrogen? Maybe try some plant estrogens like flax seed. Have ou tried flax seed and did it help or hurt? That's a clue.

Also, if you think diane helps, Diane has an additional ingredient that tends to help acne. I don't recall what it is/does. It's not allowed in the United States. Look into all that.

Also, what about sleep & stress? Vitamin D/sunlight?

cyproterone acetate and ethinylestradiol are the unusual ingredients in Diane/dianette

Although I wouldn't take it now, the main thing that helped me bounce back from going off bcp for good was vitex. In my opinion, it can be just as powerful as bcp, minus severe side effects. If diane and yaz worked for you and you experienced no weight gain (from excess estrogen etc), then vitex might be all you need.

Also, you should give inositol a try if you are looking for a natural option with no side effects, it's helped me a lot. All of this takes patience, you won't see results right away.

Go get your hormones checked. My guess is that your estrogen levels are too high and/or your androgens are too high as well. Diane is estrogenic and will also help with progesterone, but it won't directly affect your androgens, which can also cause acne. Also, the longer you take diane, the more your estrogen levels can increase, which can cause a new set of problems. Checking your hormones at this point would give you an indication on what's causing your imbalance. When I was taking diane many years ago, I had to take an anti-androgen along with it. However, I still had estrogen dominance because diane was giving me more estrogen than I needed.

If you do get your hormones tested, do saliva testing so that they measure your fluctuations throughout the month, and get the full panel (including thyroid, insulin, and cortisol).

Thanks for your reply!

more hormone came back "normal" one test that I did a few years ago, however every time I request hormone tests the doctors refuse, as I am on the pill, they basically just say I won't be getting an accurate reading of what my "real" hormones are doing. Something like that. Is there a specialist I could look up and go to that would be better than just a doc. Seems like every time I go to the docs they deflect my questions, make me feel like an idiot and basically won't refer me to anyone else. These are the GP's that also tell me stupid things like "food and acne aren't related" etc and flat out told me candida doesn't even exist (not that I have that, did that diet too, have no symptoms etc, but it's funny as that's like saying yeast doesn't exist).

Anyway! So yeah at the moment my biggest issue is I don't know what my hormones are doing, regarding the estrogen in Diane, it didn't make me gain weight. Actually what happened to me was when I first started taking diane, I did take it with a small dose of spiro, I actually gained quite a few kg which made me more depressed..nothing like disgusting AND weight gain. But after about 4 or so months I actually ended up losing weight. I'm now off Spiro, I was only on it for a very short time as I did fear it would lose effect, as a lot of people mentioned themselves, but I've maintained my normal weight since, so the excess estrogen isn't obvious to me and my body. Even so, I don't have any "female" typical issues. Like around the time of month never any issues, no cramps, no mood swings, nothing changes in me though-out the months.

I'm definitely not against anti-androgens, I've just always wanted to be really natural because I can't think of anything worse than doing what I'm doing now..which is relying on something to keep me clear. I guess I've truly always just wanted to find my root cause. Which I felt I had one..not just genes...because as mentioned in some previous posts over the years I'm an identical twin, as identical as it gets, we were close enough growing up to even eat the exact same food, went through the same emotional phases..I can't stress enough how identical we were. In fact if anything though I was and am the healthiest choice wise.

I've done a HEAP of research on epigenetics so that's where I feel her and I are differing. The only difference her and I had that could have been a strong factor is I drank a lot more alcohol than her, at least the year where I first got acne I was quite into absinthe and vodka...but how a few months of drinking could give me this never ending hormonal acne is sort of beyond me and my liver is, as the docs say, in perfect shape.

Sorry, life story! I guess right now I need a find a way to get my hormones tested! In hope that even while on the pill, I can get some sort of indication of where my hormones are

Thanks for your suggestions and help. At such a loss in the sense I really want to make the right choice and get off the pills completely..it's just such a scary thought, which I know is selfish but I honestly don't feel like I can go through the worst of the worst again, not with what it did to me and my life last time

I think she has had tests. Many times.

I don't know what happened to my earlier attempt to reply. But you might look into the progestins in each of these pills and what they do as some are more androgenic than others, And the amount of estrogen. To get a clue as to what your issue might be. Maybe yaz worked for you and you need to consider what it was doing - boosting really low progesterone? Maybe you can try a bio identical progesterone cream? Boosting estrogen? Maybe try some plant estrogens like flax seed. Have ou tried flax seed and did it help or hurt? That's a clue.

Also, if you think diane helps, Diane has an additional ingredient that tends to help acne. I don't recall what it is/does. It's not allowed in the United States. Look into all that.

Also, what about sleep & stress? Vitamin D/sunlight?

Thank you for your constant help also, does mean a lot.

I've definitely had tests, as mentioned in my reply to WishClean I haven't had a "proper" hormone test just for the reason being that no doc has be willing as they say it will be inaccurate as I am on the pill. I will perhaps go to a new doctor clinic altogether. I haven't had a test of PCOS either, perhaps I will do that. Though I don't really have other symptoms..that I know of.

I guess that's my biggest issue, is my body isn't giving me anything to work off..just the acne. Which definitely is monthly hormonal and although I'm a firm believer acne and diet are one..for me, I have spent years messing around with different foods and that's certainly not my issue, nor do I have allergies etc (though I do eat what is considering best for acne suffers and big fan of my green smoothies).

I think I mentioned to you also a bit ago that I thought I had one symptom to a possible disease, as at night I turned the light on from it being pitch black and I felt dizzy and like I was going to throw up. Since, that hasn't been too prominent, could have just been an off day with my jaw issues that give me bad migraines. Though I do get terrible motion sickness.

Anyway, for now I guess I do have one question in general, is, even off the pill..will I always have to take something for hormones..is there not anyway that my hormones will balance to their optimal level by themselves...to the extent acne would not be an issue. Or will I always have to be "on something"..like an anti-androgen if that is my issue. Which is very well might be..as spiro did work for me..but I quit early because of wanting to find my real issue, and seeing as no bcp has cleared me 100% at all.

In regards to vitamin D, there hasn't been much sun around these months here in Aus, though I do take supplements, as with using magnesium oil on my skin, like in baths. Whenever the sun is out though I always make sure I soak it up as much as I can. Over the years though I noticed vitamin D didn't alter my acne whether I got less or even too much.

Sleep, I sleep so very well. In the sense I have no issues sleeping and always do get a lot of sleep. Although now you mentioned it..I often think I get too much sleep. Some days I can sleep for up to 10+ hours, I'm nearly 22 and I know I shouldn't need that much. I could probably sleep all day if I didn't have to get out of bed...

This reminds me of something I was wanting to mention, sometimes after eating lunch I almost feel like I pass out. Sort of just sleep for an hour or so after with not much choice. When I mentioned this to the doc they told me "well thats not good" but they gave me no explanation as to why my body always wanted to sleep after eating, without much choice of my own, as my digestive system is working well, definitely no obvious symptoms there so that's a bit of a mystery..

My stress levels..I have no obvious stress in my life. I don't stress about my acne. I rarely come on the boards, actually think I didn't for a whole year as acne is never on my mind. I definitely just grew accustomed to it, it's like a part of me as it just never shifted. Especially my forehead bumps, not one time in my life since getting acne have they budged. Beyond me really those bumps, they don't even seem hormonal like my other acne because they're just always there.

The past few days I've noticed a lot more acne around my neck and back, which bummed me out a bit as I rarely do get much there at all.

But yes so I'm not worried about my stress, I'm very cautious with my mind, and with my love of philosophy I do things like yoga, deep breathing, meditation etc etc

If I have a stress issue, it's not something that's physical obvious to me and I could confidently then say that I don't have a clue what stress feels like in general life. Sometimes of course, like any normal human, when something personal and emotional happens I do experience stress, it's only natural, but I deal with it..I don't let it fester and I haven't noticed any correlation with, for example having a very stressful night, then having new acne. So for now I'm not too worried. I do exercise, drink water, keep my mind off worries etc

At a loss with what to actually use on my face now also.

I suppose all I want to do is just go through some months of a clear face, while on the pill, so I can feel in control and confident coming off the pill. Additionally people have said Diane isn't legal in the US, and the way my life is going I think I might want to move there. So that's the issue really which prompted me to re-look at my acne and what I'm to do about it..because I can't be on Diane..if I can't actually get it from US docs.

Also to mention, I have tried vitex and flax seed before (not together) though I don't really remember what happened there. I have also tried saw palmetto, but I had no obvious "effects" from all. Actually I didn't give flax seed a good run because I read some things that happened to others on it that scared me off a fair bit

While on the pill, would these natural products even affect my hormones, as I am on the pill, would the chemicals from the pill over-ride? Should I get some flax seed oil pills and see what happens?

Sorry for all the rambles, I see that I'm at the point where I need to throw in as much information as possible, as my acne issue is one without a bold cause, the cause I know, must be, something that's not obvious enough to be caught without as much detail as possible.

And thank you for all and any, help means a lot, especially when I'm surrounded by docs who just want me to take chemicals. I've gone this far with only one chemical (the pill) to touch any others ha. Even opting for natural soap to wash my hands, over antibacterial, as I hear there's ingredients in antibacterial soaps specifically that alters hormones..I'm that cautious haha.

Go get your hormones checked. My guess is that your estrogen levels are too high and/or your androgens are too high as well. Diane is estrogenic and will also help with progesterone, but it won't directly affect your androgens, which can also cause acne. Also, the longer you take diane, the more your estrogen levels can increase, which can cause a new set of problems. Checking your hormones at this point would give you an indication on what's causing your imbalance. When I was taking diane many years ago, I had to take an anti-androgen along with it. However, I still had estrogen dominance because diane was giving me more estrogen than I needed.

If you do get your hormones tested, do saliva testing so that they measure your fluctuations throughout the month, and get the full panel (including thyroid, insulin, and cortisol)

Hormonal imbalances aren't very common in acne patients. Acne is a hormonal disease technically, but that doesn't mean imbalance.

Go get your hormones checked. My guess is that your estrogen levels are too high and/or your androgens are too high as well. Diane is estrogenic and will also help with progesterone, but it won't directly affect your androgens, which can also cause acne. Also, the longer you take diane, the more your estrogen levels can increase, which can cause a new set of problems. Checking your hormones at this point would give you an indication on what's causing your imbalance. When I was taking diane many years ago, I had to take an anti-androgen along with it. However, I still had estrogen dominance because diane was giving me more estrogen than I needed.

If you do get your hormones tested, do saliva testing so that they measure your fluctuations throughout the month, and get the full panel (including thyroid, insulin, and cortisol)

Hormonal imbalances aren't very common in acne patients. Acne is a hormonal disease technically, but that doesn't mean imbalance.

Tell that to the millions of women struggling with PCOS

Go get your hormones checked. My guess is that your estrogen levels are too high and/or your androgens are too high as well. Diane is estrogenic and will also help with progesterone, but it won't directly affect your androgens, which can also cause acne. Also, the longer you take diane, the more your estrogen levels can increase, which can cause a new set of problems. Checking your hormones at this point would give you an indication on what's causing your imbalance. When I was taking diane many years ago, I had to take an anti-androgen along with it. However, I still had estrogen dominance because diane was giving me more estrogen than I needed.

If you do get your hormones tested, do saliva testing so that they measure your fluctuations throughout the month, and get the full panel (including thyroid, insulin, and cortisol)

Hormonal imbalances aren't very common in acne patients. Acne is a hormonal disease technically, but that doesn't mean imbalance.

Tell that to the millions of women struggling with PCOS

PCOS does not directly cause acne. There are plenty of women with PCOS that don't have acne. PCOS is primarily a fertility disorder and common among obese women.

I think she has had tests. Many times.

I don't know what happened to my earlier attempt to reply. But you might look into the progestins in each of these pills and what they do as some are more androgenic than others, And the amount of estrogen. To get a clue as to what your issue might be. Maybe yaz worked for you and you need to consider what it was doing - boosting really low progesterone? Maybe you can try a bio identical progesterone cream? Boosting estrogen? Maybe try some plant estrogens like flax seed. Have ou tried flax seed and did it help or hurt? That's a clue.

Also, if you think diane helps, Diane has an additional ingredient that tends to help acne. I don't recall what it is/does. It's not allowed in the United States. Look into all that.

Also, what about sleep & stress? Vitamin D/sunlight?

Thank you for your constant help also, does mean a lot.

I've definitely had tests, as mentioned in my reply to WishClean I haven't had a "proper" hormone test just for the reason being that no doc has be willing as they say it will be inaccurate as I am on the pill. I will perhaps go to a new doctor clinic altogether. I haven't had a test of PCOS either, perhaps I will do that. Though I don't really have other symptoms..that I know of.

I guess that's my biggest issue, is my body isn't giving me anything to work off..just the acne. Which definitely is monthly hormonal and although I'm a firm believer acne and diet are one..for me, I have spent years messing around with different foods and that's certainly not my issue, nor do I have allergies etc (though I do eat what is considering best for acne suffers and big fan of my green smoothies).

I think I mentioned to you also a bit ago that I thought I had one symptom to a possible disease, as at night I turned the light on from it being pitch black and I felt dizzy and like I was going to throw up. Since, that hasn't been too prominent, could have just been an off day with my jaw issues that give me bad migraines. Though I do get terrible motion sickness.

Anyway, for now I guess I do have one question in general, is, even off the pill..will I always have to take something for hormones..is there not anyway that my hormones will balance to their optimal level by themselves...to the extent acne would not be an issue. Or will I always have to be "on something"..like an anti-androgen if that is my issue. Which is very well might be..as spiro did work for me..but I quit early because of wanting to find my real issue, and seeing as no bcp has cleared me 100% at all.

In regards to vitamin D, there hasn't been much sun around these months here in Aus, though I do take supplements, as with using magnesium oil on my skin, like in baths. Whenever the sun is out though I always make sure I soak it up as much as I can. Over the years though I noticed vitamin D didn't alter my acne whether I got less or even too much.

Sleep, I sleep so very well. In the sense I have no issues sleeping and always do get a lot of sleep. Although now you mentioned it..I often think I get too much sleep. Some days I can sleep for up to 10+ hours, I'm nearly 22 and I know I shouldn't need that much. I could probably sleep all day if I didn't have to get out of bed...

This reminds me of something I was wanting to mention, sometimes after eating lunch I almost feel like I pass out. Sort of just sleep for an hour or so after with not much choice. When I mentioned this to the doc they told me "well thats not good" but they gave me no explanation as to why my body always wanted to sleep after eating, without much choice of my own, as my digestive system is working well, definitely no obvious symptoms there so that's a bit of a mystery..

My stress levels..I have no obvious stress in my life. I don't stress about my acne. I rarely come on the boards, actually think I didn't for a whole year as acne is never on my mind. I definitely just grew accustomed to it, it's like a part of me as it just never shifted. Especially my forehead bumps, not one time in my life since getting acne have they budged. Beyond me really those bumps, they don't even seem hormonal like my other acne because they're just always there.

The past few days I've noticed a lot more acne around my neck and back, which bummed me out a bit as I rarely do get much there at all.

But yes so I'm not worried about my stress, I'm very cautious with my mind, and with my love of philosophy I do things like yoga, deep breathing, meditation etc etc

If I have a stress issue, it's not something that's physical obvious to me and I could confidently then say that I don't have a clue what stress feels like in general life. Sometimes of course, like any normal human, when something personal and emotional happens I do experience stress, it's only natural, but I deal with it..I don't let it fester and I haven't noticed any correlation with, for example having a very stressful night, then having new acne. So for now I'm not too worried. I do exercise, drink water, keep my mind off worries etc

At a loss with what to actually use on my face now also.

I suppose all I want to do is just go through some months of a clear face, while on the pill, so I can feel in control and confident coming off the pill. Additionally people have said Diane isn't legal in the US, and the way my life is going I think I might want to move there. So that's the issue really which prompted me to re-look at my acne and what I'm to do about it..because I can't be on Diane..if I can't actually get it from US docs.

Also to mention, I have tried vitex and flax seed before (not together) though I don't really remember what happened there. I have also tried saw palmetto, but I had no obvious "effects" from all. Actually I didn't give flax seed a good run because I read some things that happened to others on it that scared me off a fair bit

While on the pill, would these natural products even affect my hormones, as I am on the pill, would the chemicals from the pill over-ride? Should I get some flax seed oil pills and see what happens?

Sorry for all the rambles, I see that I'm at the point where I need to throw in as much information as possible, as my acne issue is one without a bold cause, the cause I know, must be, something that's not obvious enough to be caught without as much detail as possible.

And thank you for all and any, help means a lot, especially when I'm surrounded by docs who just want me to take chemicals. I've gone this far with only one chemical (the pill) to touch any others ha. Even opting for natural soap to wash my hands, over antibacterial, as I hear there's ingredients in antibacterial soaps specifically that alters hormones..I'm that cautious haha.

FSAS, if some meals make you lethargic, then it means you might have digestive issues or food intolerances. I get sleepy after I eat a lot of protein. I take digestive enzymes (enzymedica's digest spectrum) and they help a lot with digestion. Acidophilus probiotics might help you too. Notice how your body reacts after a meal - that's an indication of whether the meal you just ate is getting digested properly or not.

As I said above, if you are looking for an antiandrogen that will also boost your progesterone, try myo-inositol. It's helped me a lot these past few months. I made a thread about it with clinical studies if you are interested. Vitamin D is helpful too. Of course doctors won't accept that taking supplements can be just as effective as drugs - pharmaceutical businesses would go broke if doctors didn't prescribe drugs left and right.

Go get your hormones checked. My guess is that your estrogen levels are too high and/or your androgens are too high as well. Diane is estrogenic and will also help with progesterone, but it won't directly affect your androgens, which can also cause acne. Also, the longer you take diane, the more your estrogen levels can increase, which can cause a new set of problems. Checking your hormones at this point would give you an indication on what's causing your imbalance. When I was taking diane many years ago, I had to take an anti-androgen along with it. However, I still had estrogen dominance because diane was giving me more estrogen than I needed.

If you do get your hormones tested, do saliva testing so that they measure your fluctuations throughout the month, and get the full panel (including thyroid, insulin, and cortisol)

Hormonal imbalances aren't very common in acne patients. Acne is a hormonal disease technically, but that doesn't mean imbalance.

Tell that to the millions of women struggling with PCOS

PCOS does not directly cause acne. There are plenty of women with PCOS that don't have acne. PCOS is primarily a fertility disorder and common among obese women.

You must be male or ignorant or both.

I think she has had tests. Many times.

I don't know what happened to my earlier attempt to reply. But you might look into the progestins in each of these pills and what they do as some are more androgenic than others, And the amount of estrogen. To get a clue as to what your issue might be. Maybe yaz worked for you and you need to consider what it was doing - boosting really low progesterone? Maybe you can try a bio identical progesterone cream? Boosting estrogen? Maybe try some plant estrogens like flax seed. Have ou tried flax seed and did it help or hurt? That's a clue.

Also, if you think diane helps, Diane has an additional ingredient that tends to help acne. I don't recall what it is/does. It's not allowed in the United States. Look into all that.

Also, what about sleep & stress? Vitamin D/sunlight?

Thank you for your constant help also, does mean a lot.

I've definitely had tests, as mentioned in my reply to WishClean I haven't had a "proper" hormone test just for the reason being that no doc has be willing as they say it will be inaccurate as I am on the pill. I will perhaps go to a new doctor clinic altogether. I haven't had a test of PCOS either, perhaps I will do that. Though I don't really have other symptoms..that I know of.

I guess that's my biggest issue, is my body isn't giving me anything to work off..just the acne. Which definitely is monthly hormonal and although I'm a firm believer acne and diet are one..for me, I have spent years messing around with different foods and that's certainly not my issue, nor do I have allergies etc (though I do eat what is considering best for acne suffers and big fan of my green smoothies).

I think I mentioned to you also a bit ago that I thought I had one symptom to a possible disease, as at night I turned the light on from it being pitch black and I felt dizzy and like I was going to throw up. Since, that hasn't been too prominent, could have just been an off day with my jaw issues that give me bad migraines. Though I do get terrible motion sickness.

Anyway, for now I guess I do have one question in general, is, even off the pill..will I always have to take something for hormones..is there not anyway that my hormones will balance to their optimal level by themselves...to the extent acne would not be an issue. Or will I always have to be "on something"..like an anti-androgen if that is my issue. Which is very well might be..as spiro did work for me..but I quit early because of wanting to find my real issue, and seeing as no bcp has cleared me 100% at all.

In regards to vitamin D, there hasn't been much sun around these months here in Aus, though I do take supplements, as with using magnesium oil on my skin, like in baths. Whenever the sun is out though I always make sure I soak it up as much as I can. Over the years though I noticed vitamin D didn't alter my acne whether I got less or even too much.

Sleep, I sleep so very well. In the sense I have no issues sleeping and always do get a lot of sleep. Although now you mentioned it..I often think I get too much sleep. Some days I can sleep for up to 10+ hours, I'm nearly 22 and I know I shouldn't need that much. I could probably sleep all day if I didn't have to get out of bed...

This reminds me of something I was wanting to mention, sometimes after eating lunch I almost feel like I pass out. Sort of just sleep for an hour or so after with not much choice. When I mentioned this to the doc they told me "well thats not good" but they gave me no explanation as to why my body always wanted to sleep after eating, without much choice of my own, as my digestive system is working well, definitely no obvious symptoms there so that's a bit of a mystery..

My stress levels..I have no obvious stress in my life. I don't stress about my acne. I rarely come on the boards, actually think I didn't for a whole year as acne is never on my mind. I definitely just grew accustomed to it, it's like a part of me as it just never shifted. Especially my forehead bumps, not one time in my life since getting acne have they budged. Beyond me really those bumps, they don't even seem hormonal like my other acne because they're just always there.

The past few days I've noticed a lot more acne around my neck and back, which bummed me out a bit as I rarely do get much there at all.

But yes so I'm not worried about my stress, I'm very cautious with my mind, and with my love of philosophy I do things like yoga, deep breathing, meditation etc etc

If I have a stress issue, it's not something that's physical obvious to me and I could confidently then say that I don't have a clue what stress feels like in general life. Sometimes of course, like any normal human, when something personal and emotional happens I do experience stress, it's only natural, but I deal with it..I don't let it fester and I haven't noticed any correlation with, for example having a very stressful night, then having new acne. So for now I'm not too worried. I do exercise, drink water, keep my mind off worries etc

At a loss with what to actually use on my face now also.

I suppose all I want to do is just go through some months of a clear face, while on the pill, so I can feel in control and confident coming off the pill. Additionally people have said Diane isn't legal in the US, and the way my life is going I think I might want to move there. So that's the issue really which prompted me to re-look at my acne and what I'm to do about it..because I can't be on Diane..if I can't actually get it from US docs.

Also to mention, I have tried vitex and flax seed before (not together) though I don't really remember what happened there. I have also tried saw palmetto, but I had no obvious "effects" from all. Actually I didn't give flax seed a good run because I read some things that happened to others on it that scared me off a fair bit

While on the pill, would these natural products even affect my hormones, as I am on the pill, would the chemicals from the pill over-ride? Should I get some flax seed oil pills and see what happens?

Sorry for all the rambles, I see that I'm at the point where I need to throw in as much information as possible, as my acne issue is one without a bold cause, the cause I know, must be, something that's not obvious enough to be caught without as much detail as possible.

And thank you for all and any, help means a lot, especially when I'm surrounded by docs who just want me to take chemicals. I've gone this far with only one chemical (the pill) to touch any others ha. Even opting for natural soap to wash my hands, over antibacterial, as I hear there's ingredients in antibacterial soaps specifically that alters hormones..I'm that cautious haha.

FSAS, if some meals make you lethargic, then it means you might have digestive issues or food intolerances. I get sleepy after I eat a lot of protein. I take digestive enzymes (enzymedica's digest spectrum) and they help a lot with digestion. Acidophilus probiotics might help you too. Notice how your body reacts after a meal - that's an indication of whether the meal you just ate is getting digested properly or not.

As I said above, if you are looking for an antiandrogen that will also boost your progesterone, try myo-inositol. It's helped me a lot these past few months. I made a thread about it with clinical studies if you are interested. Vitamin D is helpful too. Of course doctors won't accept that taking supplements can be just as effective as drugs - pharmaceutical businesses would go broke if doctors didn't prescribe drugs left and right.

>

Go get your hormones checked. My guess is that your estrogen levels are too high and/or your androgens are too high as well. Diane is estrogenic and will also help with progesterone, but it won't directly affect your androgens, which can also cause acne. Also, the longer you take diane, the more your estrogen levels can increase, which can cause a new set of problems. Checking your hormones at this point would give you an indication on what's causing your imbalance. When I was taking diane many years ago, I had to take an anti-androgen along with it. However, I still had estrogen dominance because diane was giving me more estrogen than I needed.

If you do get your hormones tested, do saliva testing so that they measure your fluctuations throughout the month, and get the full panel (including thyroid, insulin, and cortisol)

Hormonal imbalances aren't very common in acne patients. Acne is a hormonal disease technically, but that doesn't mean imbalance.

Tell that to the millions of women struggling with PCOS

PCOS does not directly cause acne. There are plenty of women with PCOS that don't have acne. PCOS is primarily a fertility disorder and common among obese women.

You must be male or ignorant or both.

Tell me this, why is it when obese PCOS women lose weight all their symptoms go away? If most women just stuck to a healthy diet and kept slim PCOS wouldn't even be a diagnosis. Also I find it funny that PCOS seems to be common in the United States yet virtually non existent in other countries, hmmnn....

Uhhh, there are lots of skinny women with PCOS, and the rate of acne in skinny women with PCOS is higher than obese women with PCOS.

An upside to non-standardized health care is that you do have more research, innovation, and doctors willing to go out on a limb for "new" diseases. When your health care is standardized, things are much more set in stone. For example, I underwent major surgery last year and will have to go through another one next year. There are only about 5 doctors in the world who do this kind of surgery, and they all are in the U.S.

I talked to some international doctors (two in Canada, one in London, one in Italy) in the field and they told me straight up that "only American doctors are that experimental for this procedure." Another one said, "why are you looking internationally? Here we refine existing procedures, if you want something new, stick to your own country."

I would say that PCOS rates are fairly regular, but your healthcare system doesn't like to recognize diseases that aren't textbook cases.

Oh, really Starviolent? Then I must be imagining my PCOS because I am neither overweight nor American. I should be paying you to diagnose me, you are truly a genius.

Thanks for proving my point about being ignorant. I only commented on here to respond to FSAS's post, not to engage in pointless debate with someone who doesn't know how to do research and use common sense.

Go get your hormones checked. My guess is that your estrogen levels are too high and/or your androgens are too high as well. Diane is estrogenic and will also help with progesterone, but it won't directly affect your androgens, which can also cause acne. Also, the longer you take diane, the more your estrogen levels can increase, which can cause a new set of problems. Checking your hormones at this point would give you an indication on what's causing your imbalance. When I was taking diane many years ago, I had to take an anti-androgen along with it. However, I still had estrogen dominance because diane was giving me more estrogen than I needed.

If you do get your hormones tested, do saliva testing so that they measure your fluctuations throughout the month, and get the full panel (including thyroid, insulin, and cortisol)

Hormonal imbalances aren't very common in acne patients. Acne is a hormonal disease technically, but that doesn't mean imbalance.

Tell that to the millions of women struggling with PCOS

PCOS does not directly cause acne. There are plenty of women with PCOS that don't have acne. PCOS is primarily a fertility disorder and common among obese women.

Fertility issues is just one possible factor in the syndrome. Obesity is one other, possible, factor.

Uhhh, there are lots of skinny women with PCOS, and the rate of acne in skinny women with PCOS is higher than obese women with PCOS.

An upside to non-standardized health care is that you do have more research, innovation, and doctors willing to go out on a limb for "new" diseases. When your health care is standardized, things are much more set in stone. For example, I underwent major surgery last year and will have to go through another one next year. There are only about 5 doctors in the world who do this kind of surgery, and they all are in the U.S.

I talked to some international doctors (two in Canada, one in London, one in Italy) in the field and they told me straight up that "only American doctors are that experimental for this procedure." Another one said, "why are you looking internationally? Here we refine existing procedures, if you want something new, stick to your own country."

I would say that PCOS rates are fairly regular, but your healthcare system doesn't like to recognize diseases that aren't textbook cases.

PCOS is more common in the west, just as acne. And controlling your weight and eating healthy reverses most of the unpleasant PCOS symptoms.

Oh, really Starviolent? Then I must be imagining my PCOS because I am neither overweight nor American. I should be paying you to diagnose me, you are truly a genius.

Thanks for proving my point about being ignorant. I only commented on here to respond to FSAS's post, not to engage in pointless debate with someone who doesn't know how to do research and use common sense.

There are natural ways to reverse and manage your PCOS as it's mainly a disease of bad western living. You could start with your diet.

Or will I always have to be "on something"..like an anti-androgen if that is my issue. Which is very well might be..as spiro did work for me..but I quit early because of wanting to find my real issue, and seeing as no bcp has cleared me 100% at all.

I mean I hope you find your "real" issue...and obviously I'm coming from a totally biased point of view . But gosh if spiro was working...why did you let fear that it may stop working get you off it? I'm kind of reminded of a nice guy I dated. He was so afraid of relationships ending that he wouldn't commit to anyone. His own fear caused his own unhappiness, even to this day.

Maybe spiro does stop working in the future. But here's the upside. If it does work, it gives you time to do more research WHILE HAVING CLEAR SKIN and generally living a better life!

I'm clear. I'm still on these forums because I like the community here, and I like to see any bits of research people come up with. I would LOVE to someday get off spiro for something more "natural" or "fundamental". But the quality of my life has improved by leaps and bounds since I stopped having acne on my face, even if it is because of a little pill I take every day.

Or will I always have to be "on something"..like an anti-androgen if that is my issue. Which is very well might be..as spiro did work for me..but I quit early because of wanting to find my real issue, and seeing as no bcp has cleared me 100% at all.

I mean I hope you find your "real" issue...and obviously I'm coming from a totally biased point of view . But gosh if spiro was working...why did you let fear that it may stop working get you off it? I'm kind of reminded of a nice guy I dated. He was so afraid of relationships ending that he wouldn't commit to anyone. His own fear caused his own unhappiness, even to this day.

Maybe spiro does stop working in the future. But here's the upside. If it does work, it gives you time to do more research WHILE HAVING CLEAR SKIN and generally living a better life!

I'm clear. I'm still on these forums because I like the community here, and I like to see any bits of research people come up with. I would LOVE to someday get off spiro for something more "natural" or "fundamental". But the quality of my life has improved by leaps and bounds since I stopped having acne on my face, even if it is because of a little pill I take every day.

I think it might be better to get back on the spiro, and then try quitting the BCPs.

Yeah, I think quitting bcp is the hardest one, so if spiro worked for you then that might be easier to come off eventually than bcp, and then figure out something else to take to keep your hormones balanced. Unfortunately, if you have a hormonal imbalance that's genetic, then you will always need something to regulate your hormones. If I were you --and I am biased as well -- I would start taking myo-inositol a few months before you quit bcp to help you. It's probably the most underestimated supplement for hormonal acne. I had the most stubborn acne (not just homonal, other kinds too) along with mild hirsutism that was becoming more noticeable, and I still can't believe how much inositol has helped me. I'll probably have to take it for a very long time, and then quit/reduce it for a few months, then start again, but it has no side effects so it doesn't hurt to try.

And I have to say, the first time I decided to try herbs and supplements after many years of antibiotics and bcp, what helped me recover from severe breakouts was a combination of vitex, evening primrose, acidophilus, and a multivitamin (pretty sure vitex was the strongest out of those). But this time around, this combo didn't work for me, so I guess you do have to do some trial and error because hormones constantly fluctuate and what worked for you in the past may not necessarily work this time.

FYI if you decide to try it:

Clinical research has shown the following effects of inositol supplementation:

• restores normal ovulatory activity
• increases fertilization rate
• prevents spina bifida birth defect
• lowers free testosterone (research has shown up to a 73% reduction)
• lowers total testosterone (as much as 65% reduction)
• lowers LH (as much as 55% reduction)
• lowers insulin response after meals (as much as 62% reduction)
• lowers DHEA-S (as much as 49% reduction)
• increases SHBG (as much as 92% increase)
• lowers androstenedione (as much as 27% reduction)
• lowers triglycerides (as much as 51% reduction)
• lowers blood pressure (minor decrease)
• increases peak progesterone (129% increase in one study)