It would be moderate acne (if you have equally bad pimples on your forehead, too), but if it's very resistant to topical treatments or if you have worse back/chest acne, it would be bumped into the severe category.

Fish oil has not been proven for acne, so discontinue it. A zinc deficiency may aggravate or cause acne, but there has been limited evidence supporting supplementation beyond adequate levels so discontinue zinc, too. Get your zinc from fortified cereals or oysters, mollusks, egg products or nuts and seeds.

Which Acne Free products are you using, by the way?

I don't have any on my back yet and there's very little on my fore head. But since its never been this bad I'm not sure if its going to start spreading to those areas over time. I'm using the acne free for sensitive skin because cetaphil wasn't doing much.

Proactive probably wrecked the natural PH balance of your skin as well as the natural barrier. Your skin probably become dependent on the chemicals. This, I believe, was the start of my acne as well. However, at age 20, there could be many other causes (hormone imbalance, gut dysbiosis from years of bad eating, newfound food intolerances etc). I am now using a combo of benzoyl peroxide (only on trouble areas on my face...and only a tiny bit), grapeseed oil moisturizer (linoleic acid helps restore natural balance in skin), and a COMPLETELY CLEARED UP DIET (paleo/fodmap, very strict). I am also taking vitex and a few vitamins to balance my hormones and restore my body's ability to fight for itself. I feel so much better already.

My advice: only use the chemicals on the parts of your face that are absolutely necessary. In your case, your outer cheeks (same situation and same looking acne as mine). Continue with zinc, and DEFINITELY continue with fish oil (but I highly recommend ordering green pastures cod liver oil/butter mix GEL). It is fermented the natural way, preserving all the natural vitamins. It is not toxic (though the vitamins are in higher doses) because it is considered a food source and is easily absorbed by the body. Both vitamin A and D in cod liver oil are very important for acne, not to mention the high level of anti-inflammatory omega 3's in it!!! Good luck

That's was very helpful thank you. I drink a lot of coffee could that be affecting it? I also smoke but I'm cutting down. Food wise though I've always been pretty healthy and exercise regularly. But anyways thanks again for the advice very helpful and any further suggestions would again be greatly appreciated.

cola, caffeine, alcohol, refined sugar, junk food, dairy etc. are potential acne triers if ur immune is low. Cut them down and see how it goes. Go to a endocrinologist and see if hormones are an issue.

That's was very helpful thank you. I drink a lot of coffee could that be affecting it? I also smoke but I'm cutting down. Food wise though I've always been pretty healthy and exercise regularly. But anyways thanks again for the advice very helpful and any further suggestions would again be greatly appreciated.

 

Yeah, I consider acne a really serious condition and a symptom of systemic inflammation in the body. So basically, its something to really be concerned about because it means your internal health isn't the best. Coffee is definitely a no no for acne sufferers. 1) its acidic 2) its inflammatory 3) it will raise your cortisol levels 4) we often put milk and sugar in it which is a no no. As for smoking, yes indeed, I'd try to stop as many have said it can make pores bigger (on top of a bunch of other health concerns). How is your diet? Do you eat wheat? What about dairy? And no problem for the advice a lot of people on this website are really knowledgable and its our duty to help one another out!

I eat a lot of eggs and turkey and fruit and spinach and veggies. But i constantly have dairy ( cheese, and milk especially). The three main things I drink Are water, coffee (every single day and used to drink way too much of it -two venti cups a day with add shots) and flavored iced tea, I cut out monsters because I use to drink a couple a day.

It would be moderate acne (if you have equally bad pimples on your forehead, too), but if it's very resistant to topical treatments or if you have worse back/chest acne, it would be bumped into the severe category.

Fish oil has not been proven for acne, so discontinue it. A zinc deficiency may aggravate or cause acne, but there has been limited evidence supporting supplementation beyond adequate levels so discontinue zinc, too. Get your zinc from fortified cereals or oysters, mollusks, egg products or nuts and seeds.

Which Acne Free products are you using, by the way?

 

*Moderator edit - Read the board rules!* why are you telling her to "discontiue" medicines that are good for the skin and body? I don't care about being a member of this forum, I only signed up to look at pictures, but I couldn't help myself from writing on this thread when I read about the advice you just gave her.

That's was very helpful thank you. I drink a lot of coffee could that be affecting it? I also smoke but I'm cutting down. Food wise though I've always been pretty healthy and exercise regularly.

 

While coffee can increase cortisol levels, it is highly unlikely it would raise it to the amount it would cause acne. Extremely high levels of cortisol can cause acne or an acne-like rash, primarily in Cushing syndrome. Furthermore there is no direct evidence that coffee causes acne.

That's was very helpful thank you. I drink a lot of coffee could that be affecting it? I also smoke but I'm cutting down. Food wise though I've always been pretty healthy and exercise regularly. But anyways thanks again for the advice very helpful and any further suggestions would again be greatly appreciated.

 

Yeah, I consider acne a really serious condition and a symptom of systemic inflammation in the body. So basically, its something to really be concerned about because it means your internal health isn't the best. Coffee is definitely a no no for acne sufferers. 1) its acidic 2) its inflammatory 3) it will raise your cortisol levels 4) we often put milk and sugar in it which is a no no. As for smoking, yes indeed, I'd try to stop as many have said it can make pores bigger (on top of a bunch of other health concerns). How is your diet? Do you eat wheat? What about dairy? And no problem for the advice a lot of people on this website are really knowledgable and its our duty to help one another out!

 

'Acidic' foods causing acne and other skin problems is total nonsense. The pH is very tightly controlled, and if the pH was changed even slightly it would be life-threatening. This is why those with kidney disease are closely monitored when they're on dialysis to prevent pH disruption. To say that the pH in foods would greatly affect our health or cause acne would mean everything we know about the human body is wrong.

How is coffee inflammatory, anyway? Inflammation is the body's response to heal. What chemicals in coffee cause the body to go into an inflammatory response? If you're allergic to something in coffee, yes you would have an increase in inflammation (but this is in extremely general terms as there are numerous 'inflammatory' chemicals and they behave differently) but what about someone who isn't allergic to it?

Another thing: the skin does not become "addicted" to products. Yes, a person may be psychologically addicted to applying products, but the skin does not work that way. The skin will function regardless of what you put on it. If you discontinue a moisturizer and then it becomes dry, the skin will not 'forget' how to bring itself back to equilibrium again -- it's simply because there is something in the environment that is causing more damage than what the skin can adequately repair.

It would be moderate acne (if you have equally bad pimples on your forehead, too), but if it's very resistant to topical treatments or if you have worse back/chest acne, it would be bumped into the severe category.

Fish oil has not been proven for acne, so discontinue it. A zinc deficiency may aggravate or cause acne, but there has been limited evidence supporting supplementation beyond adequate levels so discontinue zinc, too. Get your zinc from fortified cereals or oysters, mollusks, egg products or nuts and seeds.

Which Acne Free products are you using, by the way?

 

*Moderator edit - Read the board rules!* why are you telling her to "discontiue" medicines that are good for the skin and body? I don't care about being a member of this forum, I only signed up to look at pictures, but I couldn't help myself from writing on this thread when I read about the advice you just gave her.

 

Do you have any proof these medicines work other than anecdotal (testimonial) evidence? Can you link me to large double-blind, randomized placebo-controlled studies that disclose their source of funding and published in peer-reviewed journals?

Anecdotes are not good evidence for several reasons. For one, people fall into the placebo effect all the time. Two, many diseases are cyclical like acne, so we may confuse correlation = causation and wrongly credit the treatment for reducing the disease. Three, we may want to believe so much that treatment XYZ works that we fool ourselves into thinking it does. Four, as the this is the Internet, some people may be lying. These reasons among others are exactly why investigators perform these studies to rule out mere coincidences and confounding factors -- to prove without doubt that a treatment works.

I absolutely do not want her to waste money on placebos. To knowingly advocate it is highly unethical. If it so happens that the the pills don't "work", she may blame herself for her lack of results and that she "didn't try hard enough". She may get desperate and start trying all sorts of unproven or disproved "remedies". Some of these treatments she may try could easily have heavy metals and illegal prescription drugs in there and I do not want her or anyone else to suffer from that.

Yes, there are many people on these forums who do want to help -- I get that. But there is a ton of misinformation on the Internet that spreads which is sometimes accepted as fact. There are many people who don't know what's fact or fiction. Many are not educated in science so it's all too easy to fall into potential marketing traps.

To Michelle Reese:

For those who are very sensitive to caffeine and/or have hormonal imbalances or are consuming other products, or participating in lifestyle habits (vigorous exercise) that already raises cortisol levels...I have to disagree and say that coffee can indeed cause an increase in acne. It may not cause acne, but it could contribute. For example, it aggravates my acne without question, and while I don't know the precise science behind it, I myself can vouch for my stated point.

I also have to disagree with the idea that acidic diets do not contribute to acne. I mean...be my guest and consume large amounts of white flour, dairy, fruit, sugar, needless non-nutritional carbohydrates and red meat at each meal and let me know how your skin is doing. The truth is, the acidity of foods is a big indicator of how "inflammatory" it is. For example, the lower PH foods (most veggies) are often very anti-inflammatory. High PH foods (like coffee) are often very pro-inflammatory. The term "PH/acidity level" and "inflammatory" covary quite a bit.

Inflammation isn't really the body's response to heal, either. At least, not in the sense that inflammatory is by any means a healthy condition. While it may be a healing response of the body, widespread inflammation is not the natural state and it usually signals a chronic problem...

I also beg to differ with the skin becoming addicted to products. I don't mean this in the neurobiological sense, obviously, but in terms of BP it is more of a metaphor to indicate DEPENDENCE. Many on this site can account for this. When we get off of BP, our skin condition usually returns or even worsens from its previous state. "The skin will function regardless of what you put on it" mmmmmm......no. I wouldn't attack every point you made if you made your points with any validation, but this is really just....not true. Slather your face with 10% benzoyl peroxide twice a day and then "moisturize" with thick vaseline. Then please, measure the health of your skin in a year. Many people start using harsh products, which brings their face out of equilibrium and sometimes, it takes a while to recover (I'm not talking about the few hour PH balance, by the way). This is why the caveman regimen works for some people. The skin is an organ, and you really shouldn't be putting anything on it that you can't consume internally.

I don't agree, with really anything you said. But that's okay, because we are all here to exchange our own words of advice.

PS: Fortified "cereals" are bad. People aren't supposed to consume grains. Not surprisingly, the PH of grain is very acidic, and it is also pro inflammatory. Don't get your zinc from fortified cereals, folks.

To Michelle Reese:

For those who are very sensitive to caffeine and/or have hormonal imbalances or are consuming other products, or participating in lifestyle habits (vigorous exercise) that already raises cortisol levels...I have to disagree and say that coffee can indeed cause an increase in acne. It may not cause acne, but it could contribute. For example, it aggravates my acne without question, and while I don't know the precise science behind it, I myself can vouch for my stated point.

I also have to disagree with the idea that acidic diets do not contribute to acne. I mean...be my guest and consume large amounts of white flour, dairy, fruit, sugar, needless non-nutritional carbohydrates and red meat at each meal and let me know how your skin is doing. The truth is, the acidity of foods is a big indicator of how "inflammatory" it is. For example, the lower PH foods (most veggies) are often very anti-inflammatory. High PH foods (like coffee) are often very pro-inflammatory. The term "PH/acidity level" and "inflammatory" covary quite a bit.

Inflammation isn't really the body's response to heal, either. At least, not in the sense that inflammatory is by any means a healthy condition. While it may be a healing response of the body, widespread inflammation is not the natural state and it usually signals a chronic problem...

I also beg to differ with the skin becoming addicted to products. I don't mean this in the neurobiological sense, obviously, but in terms of BP it is more of a metaphor to indicate DEPENDENCE. Many on this site can account for this. When we get off of BP, our skin condition usually returns or even worsens from its previous state. "The skin will function regardless of what you put on it" mmmmmm......no. I wouldn't attack every point you made if you made your points with any validation, but this is really just....not true. Slather your face with 10% benzoyl peroxide twice a day and then "moisturize" with thick vaseline. Then please, measure the health of your skin in a year. Many people start using harsh products, which brings their face out of equilibrium and sometimes, it takes a while to recover (I'm not talking about the few hour PH balance, by the way). This is why the caveman regimen works for some people. The skin is an organ, and you really shouldn't be putting anything on it that you can't consume internally.

I don't agree, with really anything you said. But that's okay, because we are all here to exchange our own words of advice.

PS: Fortified "cereals" are bad. People aren't supposed to consume grains. Not surprisingly, the PH of grain is very acidic, and it is also pro inflammatory. Don't get your zinc from fortified cereals, folks.

 

I'm trying very hard to say things about the skin and science in layman's terms without going too much into general statements. I don't want to confuse anyone or bog them down with complicated terms. Clearly now I have to elaborate further.

With the pH part, there are no high quality studies that proves the pH in normal foods significantly alters the pH in the blood or skin and causes/contributes to various diseases . Yes, foods may raise or lower the pH in urine, but urine is expelled. If you do manage to eat very large quantities of acidic foods, it may change the blood pH slightly, but only for a very short time and it would not cause or contribute to any disease.

Let me elaborate on "the skin will function regardless of what you put on it". The skin is quite complicated. It is very specific of how it organizes its epidermal lipids into the stratum corneum membrane and the amount of sugars, amino acids, and other natural moisturizing factors. It's also specific of how it takes kertinocytes (epidermis cells) and forms corneocytes (older cells comprising the stratum corneum). It is also specific on how it reacts to damaging environmental factors and how it repairs itself. Some of the time the skin can repair itself if the damage is minor -- it will increase the production of filaggrin and natural moisturizing factors, among other ways. If this fails and the damage continues, it will release cytokines and start the inflammatory cascade. Inflammation is the body's attempt to protect and heal itself, almost as if it's screaming "fix me!" Inflammation itself is not bad, but if it becomes chronic or out of control, then it's a problem.

Sure, you can apply topicals to exfoliate mature cells and rearrange the epidermal lipids to "strengthen" (more like bring it back to normal levels) the barrier. You could also use specific lasers to "damage" the epidermis and put collagen into "overdrive". But the bottom line is the skin is not plastic (changeable) as the brain. Taking methamphetamine and opioids (heroin) in high enough doses for long enough time will damage the dopamine receptors to the point of "being disabled" where you have to take the drugs to have normal levels of it again. The skin will still react the same way to external stress and the inflammatory response, the skin will still produce filaggrin and increase if there is water loss from the skin, etectera etcetra. If you stop the external stress (BP), the skin will still heal although it would take a longer time than if you used moisturizers. Does that make sense to you?

Like with most chronic diseases that have no cure, you have to depend on medicine. Type 1 diabetes, cerebral palsy, multiple sclerosis, etc. You still have to take your insulin, you still have do therapy and wear your braces, you still have to take pain pills/NF-kB inhibitors. Whether it's topicals or diet, if you have chronic acne you are dependent on it. Either way, if you discontinue your treatment, your acne will likely flare. You have not cured it -- you're still managing it whatever you treat yourself with.

How are foods pro-inflammatory, anyway? Also, please prove it to me that skin can become "addicted" to products. I can write a general statement like: "Many people living in Nevada are of Asian origin", but if I don't have any proof of this, it's just a (vague) sentence and not fact. Where is your proof? Where are the scientific studies? Where is the biological plausibility? Be specific.

I'll elaborate more on this later, but it is simply a fact of life that not everything that exists can be "proven" to someone by handing them copies of a peer reviewed study that supports what they are saying. As for where the biological plausibility is, its here, on this site. Many of us can tell you what works and what doesn't more than most dermatologists can. That's just a fact. Just like if anyone does a little bit of research, they will learn quite a bit more about how the body functions optimally, what nutritional guideline is most suitable and best for humans, etc. than what most Western M.D.'s have. Textbooks and studies can't teach us all there is to know about life. I know of a study that says subliminal messaging has "no effect on the brain." I also know that the Western food pyramid promoted by the American Heart Association is basically upside-down. The amount of research some of us have done, and the amount and detail of critical trial and error done on our own skin is astounding. I also know that there is probably no science that says the words "skin can become dependent on harsh chemicals to clear acne" but, from thoroughly sharing experiences on this site, I would be willing to bet it does.

PS: Cytokine reaction is actually an autoimmune response, as you probably know. What you may not know, is that multiple sclerosis and diabetes are autoimmune disorders, despite not being classically defined as so in the dictionary. Perhaps the most interesting thing is that autoimmune disorders are primarily caused by diet (ahem....WHEAT...and the deadly combination of carbs, sugar and fat that occurs nowhere in nature except in processed foods) and chronic inflammation.These "diseases" and "disorders" are not at all without cure, although once a problem has progressed, it may be difficult to do so. In addition- many of these problems that you listed can be prevented through diet alone. Its a very powerful thing, what we put in our bodies. What the pharmaceutical company doesn't want many of us to know is that we do not have to be dependent on pills or drugs to get better with whatever we are suffering with. Food is our number one medicine, and I'll stand by that.

I'll elaborate more on this later, but it is simply a fact of life that not everything that exists can be "proven" to someone by handing them copies of a peer reviewed study that supports what they are saying. As for where the biological plausibility is, its here, on this site. Many of us can tell you what works and what doesn't more than most dermatologists can. That's just a fact. Just like if anyone does a little bit of research, they will learn quite a bit more about how the body functions optimally, what nutritional guideline is most suitable and best for humans, etc. than what most Western M.D.'s have. Textbooks and studies can't teach us all there is to know about life. I know of a study that says subliminal messaging has "no effect on the brain." I also know that the Western food pyramid promoted by the American Heart Association is basically upside-down. The amount of research some of us have done, and the amount and detail of critical trial and error done on our own skin is astounding. I also know that there is probably no science that says the words "skin can become dependent on harsh chemicals to clear acne" but, from thoroughly sharing experiences on this site, I would be willing to bet it does.

PS: Cytokine reaction is actually an autoimmune response, as you probably know. What you may not know, is that multiple sclerosis and diabetes are autoimmune disorders, despite not being classically defined as so in the dictionary. Perhaps the most interesting thing is that autoimmune disorders are primarily caused by diet (ahem....WHEAT...and the deadly combination of carbs, sugar and fat that occurs nowhere in nature except in processed foods) and chronic inflammation.These "diseases" and "disorders" are not at all without cure, although once a problem has progressed, it may be difficult to do so. In addition- many of these problems that you listed can be prevented through diet alone. Its a very powerful thing, what we put in our bodies. What the pharmaceutical company doesn't want many of us to know is that we do not have to be dependent on pills or drugs to get better with whatever we are suffering with. Food is our number one medicine, and I'll stand by that.

 

Anyone on this forum could post something like this:

"A homeopathic preparation of Calcarea Carbonica in 30C cured my acne. I've went to various doctors and they've given me Accutane, topicals and antibiotics, which have done nothing and only wreaked havoc on my gut health. Then I did a ton of research on the Internet and learned I need to boost my immune system to fight off pimples. The doctor I went to gave me Calcarea Carbonica in 30C, which is the strongest immune support there is. It has been effectively used for nearly 200 years to fight acne!"

That is essentially a content-free paragraph. What is 'gut health', exactly? It sounds nice, but it tells me nothing. What does 'boost the immune system' mean? What part of the immune system needs boosting? What antibodies? IgA1? IgM? IgE? Why does it need boosting? Is it really running sub-optimally? The immune system is not a muscle you can train -- at baseline it's fine. You don't want it overactive because you'd get an autoimmune disorder. You can make your immune system smarter (vaccines) but not stronger. The vague sentences in the homeopathic paragraph above are simply strung together, although it may look impressive to those who have no background in science.

Here's the problem with researching: most people don't know what makes a good quality study/research, let alone how to decipher it. There is a ton of misinformation on the Internet, which clever marketing and persuasion adds to the problem. Marketers and pranksters constantly exploit the ignorance of basic science. There have been plenty of chemical scares and hoaxes over the years on the Internet -- DHMO (water) comes to mind. If there are people who don't know basic chemistry or Latin roots, they would most certainly panic over "scary-sounding" scientific names alone.

As I've said before, anecdotes are not good evidence. There are so many ways people can be fooled: the placebo effect, the power of suggestion, confusing causation = correlation. It's even worse on the Internet. People write things on the Internet that we have absolutely no idea if it's true. They write treatment X cures them, but they show us no before-and-after pictures. Even on the rare occasion they do, the pictures could be Photoshopped. They could be wearing makeup or on a different treatment they didn't disclose. We just don't know for a fact.

A layman would not know more than a specialist in a medical field would. This is like saying a carpenter with no medical background knows how to operate moyamoya disease or a brain tumor better than a neurosurgeon would. There is a reason dermatologists and doctors spend more than 8 years in schooling -- there is so much to know about chemistry, biology and the human body they have to.

The alkaline diet and homeopathic treatments do sound plausible to impressionable people. But if you pick at them, they both fall apart. They both go against everything we know about chemistry, biology, and human physiology. The acidity in the blood is not the same as it in the skin or the stomach. If food really did change the pH significantly, we would die. If we didn't die and switched to an alkaline diet, wouldn't the stomach acid be neutralized? How could we possibly keep the saliva, arteries, veins, skin and stomach acid at their ideal pH, then? If homeopathic remedies worked beyond a placebo, the law of mass action would not exist. Dose-dependent response would be flipped on its head. Covalent bonding, noncovalent bonding. . . chemistry would be thrown out the door.

"The Pharmaceutical Company is hiding the cure to Disease X" is an oft-used marketing strategy to keep people buying books and supplemental cures. It's a brilliant method since it invokes the two most powerful motivators: fear and hope. It exploits the human tendency of wanting to blame things and the desire to fix every problem. Fear is created to blame a group or person, to give substance to an enemy. This fear is used to turn people away from the "untrustworthy folk" and then draw them into the specific crowd the marketers want. Then the hopes come in -- despite a huge conspiracy and whatever ails you, you can fix it. Not doctors, not specialists, you. You can "fix" and reverse any disease that you set your mind to better than everyone else. This is a terribly addicting feeling -- you feel in control and you are one member of a special "elite" community, one of the "enlightened" group. Its true genius lies in its subtle persuasiveness, which separates students from talented marketers. It works all too well on anybody who doesn't study marketing.

You say you have researched acne and nutrition, but why aren't you linking me the research? Where is the non-anecdotal evidence that diet can prevent MS and type 1 (not type 2) diabetes? I could start blaming choline for causing breast cancer, but I have no evidence, only my vague words. How much choline? Deficiency or excess? What amounts? What kind of breast cancer? Same thing goes with your sentence, The deadly combination of sugars, fats and carbs in wheat cause autoimmune disorders. What kind of sugars and fats and carbohydrates and in what amounts? What autoimmune disorders do they cause and how specifically do they cause them? What kind of wheat and how much?

Alright so I just now have been diagnosed with pcos. But I haven't gained any weight and have always ( I'm not exaggerating) been told how perfect my body is. But does weight gain come later? Very scared here. So now it's more than the acne which I hate it's actually a health concern. Does anyone know how to treat/ cure this holistically ? I will be running out of health insurance by the end of this month so prescriptions probably aren't the safest route to go :/ please please if anyone knows anything I'm freaking out there's so much other stuff going on the last thing at 20 is for my looks and health to go.

Alright so I just now have been diagnosed with pcos. But I haven't gained any weight and have always ( I'm not exaggerating) been told how perfect my body is. But does weight gain come later? Very scared here. So now it's more than the acne which I hate it's actually a health concern. Does anyone know how to treat/ cure this holistically ? I will be running out of health insurance by the end of this month so prescriptions probably aren't the safest route to go :/ please please if anyone knows anything I'm freaking out there's so much other stuff going on the last thing at 20 is for my looks and health to go.

 

Heyy. PCOS is a SYMPTOM of insulin resistance. I also noticed in your photos that you have some freckles on your neck, another tell tale sign of insulin resistance. You can literally cure PCOS through diet and holistic remedies. It is not always necessary that weight gain accompanies it. I have done literally an extensive amount of research on this. I will send you a private message.