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HTX_2008 said:There's also reactive hyperemia, which is in crease in blood flow due to a previous state of ischemia, which is blood flow restriction.The reason i mention this is because there has to be reason why some pimples heal as PIH and others as PIE. It's fine to understand both processes, but why are two different processes happening in the first place?
When i was a teen I remember how even my worst pimples would immediately scab and turn into PIH. They were hardly noticeable because I was often playing sports outside, so i had a good tan. Now mos tof my acne is gone, but i still get some spots. Some turn to PIH, like before, but i've started to get a lot more that heal as PIE, which i dont remember ever having as a teen. So what's the difference?
It seems to me that it's reactive hyperemia. Prior to this event, ischemia cuases a lack of oxygen (promotes acne bacteria growth/infection) and an increase of metabolic wastes, which i think promote acne in a way, either directly or indirectly, by overloading the immune system......so instead of pimples becoming PIH, which heals faster, the rush of blood and pro-acce enviroment cause a much more trauma within a pimple that necessary, opening/dilating vessels in the process.
What causes the ischemia in the first place? My guess is muscle issues. Muscle imbalances, body misaligment, etc....I actually started a thread focusing on this and received zero feedback. I'm not sure if people think it's a far reach or what, but i'm 100% certain there's a connection here and i hope some research can begin in this area.
Here's the thread:
[Edited link out]
So, what your suggesting is that PIE is a sort of rebound effect from some prior localized ischemia?
Sounds plausible, I'm not sure how someone could test that theory though.
I have heard of people using muscle relaxants, massage and even acupuncture to treat cystic acne successfully.
Perhaps for some people the initial ischemia is caused by picking/squeezing, i would be willing to bet this is true for many people considering there is an entire board dedicated to skin picking.
The problem with acne is that the pool of causes is so wide and deep and also very subjective to the individual. I highly doubt anyone will ever come up with a broad theory for it's existence due to these millions of variations and conditions.
It is likely that we will continue to treat acne in a reactive way, instead of trying to understand the underlying mechanisms of it. Let's face it, unless you have acne then you don't want to spend one spare second thinking about it.
You know what's weird, on monday my red marks looked terrible, and I put make up to cover them for school. When I got home and took the make up off they looked pretty bad. The next morning I took a shower, came out, and they looked great. Kind of like what they used to (that looks great to me compared to what it used to be) and it took barely any make up to cover them. Came home, took off the make up and they still looked good. I'm afraid that it's because they was still make p covering them. But I tried cleaning it off pretty thoroughly (though gently) w/ water. Gives me hope that it'll return to the way it was fairly soon. I just hope I'm not being lied to so to speak...
sweet. i will definitely do some research on this subject. 
my sister hasn't found a way to control her acne, and is stressed even more when the acne leave red flat marks (which they majority do. and we have asian skin. -_-). the marks last a long time, and sometimes they are purplish.
she told me that when she wakes up in the morning her marks seems to be less pigmented, and towards the end of the day the marks gradually become more obvious. i've experienced this too.
she told me that when she wakes up in the morning her marks seems to be less pigmented, and towards the end of the day the marks gradually become more obvious. i've experienced this too.
Well, the reason for that is a hormone called cortisol which is released into your skin according to your circadian rhythm, most people are programmed to wake up in the morning and sleep at night so they have more cortisol in the morning and the least at night. Cortisol can effect the way scars look depth/color, red marks can look fainter - etc. In fact, it can have a very dramatic effect.
^ you are way to smart for these boards. lol
My red marks look pretty much like they did before treatment again, you were right. I'm not getting any more treatments, not till at least Christmas or summer break, and only if I see a little more improvement, apparently results take a month to begin showing (though I find that hard to believe).
I mean, what's worse than the marks themselves, which I detest, is how much they change, especially through contact. This is why I'm switching to an electric razor. Shaving with a blade is the worst. You go to the mirror, your marks look pretty faint and you have stubble so they are even less visible, and you're all positive, then you shave and strip away the facial hair and aggravate the marks and they look all red, I just want to go into hiding. Honestly, I love the smooth feeling of blade shaving but it's not worth it anymore...
she told me that when she wakes up in the morning her marks seems to be less pigmented, and towards the end of the day the marks gradually become more obvious. i've experienced this too.
Well, the reason for that is a hormone called cortisol which is released into your skin according to your circadian rhythm, most people are programmed to wake up in the morning and sleep at night so they have more cortisol in the morning and the least at night. Cortisol can effect the way scars look depth/color, red marks can look fainter - etc. In fact, it can have a very dramatic effect.
So then cortisol plays a big role in the look of our red marks?
Is there some way we can raise it again so it isnt depleted so much during the night time?
And would this be a bad thing?
she told me that when she wakes up in the morning her marks seems to be less pigmented, and towards the end of the day the marks gradually become more obvious. i've experienced this too.
Well, the reason for that is a hormone called cortisol which is released into your skin according to your circadian rhythm, most people are programmed to wake up in the morning and sleep at night so they have more cortisol in the morning and the least at night. Cortisol can effect the way scars look depth/color, red marks can look fainter - etc. In fact, it can have a very dramatic effect.
So then cortisol plays a big role in the look of our red marks?
Is there some way we can raise it again so it isnt depleted so much during the night time?
And would this be a bad thing?
Caffeine increases cortisol levels temporarily, but if you drink too much it can have the opposite effect due to adrenal fatigue.
I suppose drinking a cup of coffee before bed could theoretically keep cortisol levels up while your are sleeping.
I really really really fucking hate how these marks can get much redder. I just wiped them before to get some stuff off and now they look bad. I'm fuckin' pissed... V-Beam is suppose to eliminate blood vessels and even after 2 treatments it still does this? How long does these shit take to heal? Will these blood vessels ever leave on their own?
its a fking never ending cycle isnt it.
Im probably going to get off topic here but bio nerd if i can pick your brain here.
Why did my red marks get more noticeable after drinking alcohol, and in general my skin looked kinda messed up after a few drinks while all my friends can go hard on the booze and their skin will remain the same, but i gotta suffer from worsening red/brown marks.
Well its the weirdest thing here goes the story...
Before the age of 17 i never had that bad acne but in my final year of high school when i was sitting my final high school exam here in Australia i was heaps stressed and my acne erupted like never before and thats when the red marks began as well!
Before this period of my life whenever i'd get a pimple it would disappear and my red marks would heal really quickly.
After this event i would always get red marks after each of my pimples, i was like wtf? I've tried so many topicals like differin and duac and they didn't help much.
Im now on accutane to stop the breakouts and hopefully stop the red marks as well....
Im 22 btw with latino skin.
I've been wondering, is it possible for these marks to be a combination of both PIH and PIE? Because I've had 2 pretty strong V-Beam treatments and the marks are still there. Perhaps slightly lighter, but still there. Like maybe there are blood vessels underneath that flare up when touched etc, but maybe there is also excess melanin being produced as well? Somehow giving it a purplish color?...
I don't know how it is normal for pinkness/purpleness to last in the skin 2 years and still be present, but at this rate, I predict it will be atleast 2 more years until I feel I don't really notice them and maybe 5 years max. 5 years though... 5 more years I mean... fml... I just hope they do keep fading to a point where I don't notice them anymore... I mean you never see adults with any red marks really... this stuff always fades right? lol
I've been wondering, is it possible for these marks to be a combination of both PIH and PIE? Because I've had 2 pretty strong V-Beam treatments and the marks are still there. Perhaps slightly lighter, but still there. Like maybe there are blood vessels underneath that flare up when touched etc, but maybe there is also excess melanin being produced as well? Somehow giving it a purplish color?...
I don't know how it is normal for pinkness/purpleness to last in the skin 2 years and still be present, but at this rate, I predict it will be atleast 2 more years until I feel I don't really notice them and maybe 5 years max. 5 years though... 5 more years I mean... fml... I just hope they do keep fading to a point where I don't notice them anymore... I mean you never see adults with any red marks really... this stuff always fades right? lol
Find a small thin piece of clear glass or plastic (no sharp edges of course) and press it down over the mark with moderate pressure.
Whatever turns white is PIE, whatever does not turn white is PIH.
The whiteness is called blanching and that's how some doctors find out the difference.
So it can be a combination of the two? Because if i were to press down on them they probably get a little lighter but they don't turn white really... but irritating them and them turning red can only be blood vessels underneath... which THEY DO DO I know for a fact... so like maybe damaged vessels underneath and some pih in the skin over top?
So it can be a combination of the two? Because if i were to press down on them they probably get a little lighter but they don't turn white really... but irritating them and them turning red can only be blood vessels underneath... which THEY DO DO I know for a fact... so like maybe damaged vessels underneath and some pih in the skin over top?
Sure it could be a combination there is no reason for it to not be able to.
If only some goes away then that's the PIE, what's left has to be PIH.
@ bio_nerd:
Ok, just to be clear: PIH CANNOT change colours right? I mean in the span of a day? The fact that my marks vary from light pink to purple to RED can only be because of blood vessels underneath right?
Cause I've had 2 V-Beam treatments so far, and though I think I see some TINY improvement (probably only noticeable to me) my red marks are still there, and they still "flare up".
I just don't get what makes these vessels so sensitive. It's literally been 2 years they've been there and they still do it. Theoretically, if I keep getting v-beam treatments, then eventually I would be rid of this, no?
I just don't want to waste my money either.
jamesy90--
i know how you feel about the red marks that youve got and how they keep flaring up. ive had a massive one and i stilkl have it though its much light and doesnt flare up as much. ive been using only emu oil on it for a number of months and have been dabbing it on it whenever i can. have you tired that? maybe give it a rest for a while and just put emu oil on it and see how it goes. its not an overnight miracle cure and it took months for improvment of my red mark but it is much better than before atleast. anyways just a thought to try out maybe?
@ bio_nerd:
Ok, just to be clear: PIH CANNOT change colours right? I mean in the span of a day? The fact that my marks vary from light pink to purple to RED can only be because of blood vessels underneath right?
Cause I've had 2 V-Beam treatments so far, and though I think I see some TINY improvement (probably only noticeable to me) my red marks are still there, and they still "flare up".
I just don't get what makes these vessels so sensitive. It's literally been 2 years they've been there and they still do it. Theoretically, if I keep getting v-beam treatments, then eventually I would be rid of this, no?
I just don't want to waste my money either.
Have you tried a TCA peel?
Yes man, I've said it like a million times on these boards.
I wouldn't say botched but I had no idea that I'd be left with pink/red marks instead of brown ones more than 2 years after all was said and done. My derm said it was PIH and this site atleast let me relate and find info like others who have PIH marks.
(Though now I believe it's more PIE)