Thanks WishClean. I use Emerita Pro-gest.
Great, let me know how it goes. The progesterone cream can take a few months to work, it's one of the slowest hormonal treatments, but it's becoming popular with women who don't want to take progestin or synthetic hormones, so I hope it works out for you! I might give it another try if inositol is not enough, but switch to the brand hearts is using. Are you also using the same brand as her?
Good to know. I'll try it with the bottle of glucosmart I have, and then go for myo- if I have a bad reaction. I recently read a two page article in Reader's Digest on the use of progesterone cream to treat PCOS. So that's encouraging. I hope it fixes my acne really soon, as I hate caking on the coverup!
Thanks WishClean. I use Emerita Pro-gest.
Cool. Where did you order it from? I was thinking of either that or a compounded cream from the pharmacist, but I need to get my hormones re-checked to be able to get a prescription. I read that soy-based progesterone creams should be avoided.
Right now I'm bummed because my face got swollen from all the junk food I ate. I never get these swellings unless I eat something I can't tolerate. My stomach was killing me too. UGH. Sucks that I bypassed my hormonal breakouts this month and then I screwed it up with junk food. But hopefully the inositol along with vitamins C& D will help strengthen my immune system....I read that inositol can take 3-6 months for the full effect, and I haven't reached the 3rd month yet. I will also follow greengable's suggestions to increase my stomach acid to hopefully minimize these reactions.
By the way, do any of you know when the best time to take inositol is? In the studies I read, it said in the morning, but I take most of it at night to help with sleep. I was thinking, though, that androgens are higher during the day, so maybe it would make more sense to take most of my dose earlier? I'm trying to optimize my dose...
Thanks WishClean. I use Emerita Pro-gest.
Cool. Where did you order it from? I was thinking of either that or a compounded cream from the pharmacist, but I need to get my hormones re-checked to be able to get a prescription. I read that soy-based progesterone creams should be avoided.
Right now I'm bummed because my face got swollen from all the junk food I ate. I never get these swellings unless I eat something I can't tolerate. My stomach was killing me too. UGH. Sucks that I bypassed my hormonal breakouts this month and then I screwed it up with junk food. But hopefully the inositol along with vitamins C& D will help strengthen my immune system....I read that inositol can take 3-6 months for the full effect, and I haven't reached the 3rd month yet. I will also follow greengable's suggestions to increase my stomach acid to hopefully minimize these reactions.
By the way, do any of you know when the best time to take inositol is? In the studies I read, it said in the morning, but I take most of it at night to help with sleep. I was thinking, though, that androgens are higher during the day, so maybe it would make more sense to take most of my dose earlier? I'm trying to optimize my dose...
Sorry to hear bout the new breakout, WishClean. Hopefully it clears up fast! Androgens are highest early in the day, so it might be more beneficial to take it during that time instead if you can remember to. I suck at taking supplements in the morning because I get distracted! But it helps much more when I remember and am consistent. It seems that consistency is super important in hormonal therapy.
Sorry to hear bout the new breakout, WishClean. Hopefully it clears up fast! Androgens are highest early in the day, so it might be more beneficial to take it during that time instead if you can remember to. I suck at taking supplements in the morning because I get distracted! But it helps much more when I remember and am consistent. It seems that consistency is super important in hormonal therapy.
Thanks! It was disappointing to get a breakout after bypassing the usual hormonal ones. I was getting too confident and I indulged in junk food....I truly over did it! I can't even pinpoint what caused the breakout bc I ate so much junk! And I felt so horrible afterwards, I couldn't sleep from the stomach pains. So I learned my lesson at least. And the breakout looked different than hormonal ones, it was more aggressive and my face got swollen. Ugh, I can't win! I'll try the HCL and stock up on digestive enzymes.
I'm trying to take most of inositol in the morning. it's hard bc it needs to be taken on an empty stomach, and I usually have to wait about an hour before having breakfast, but when I need to go to work I don't have that much time to wait. You're right, consistency is key with hormones.
Hey WishClean, have you ever tried antihistamines for your food-related breakouts? It might help if it's allergy based.
I was taking my inositol at lunch, but since you pointed out that the therapeutic effects are better in the morning, I'm starting to take it in the morning.
I ordered the Emerita Pro-gest from Amazon. It has great reviews.
I don't know what's happening with me, but the last two nights I have had bad sleeps for the first time since starting progesterone cream. Hearts, did you ever experience that (great sleep and then not so great)? If so, did your sleeping get back in track and how?
Sorry to hear bout the new breakout, WishClean. Hopefully it clears up fast! Androgens are highest early in the day, so it might be more beneficial to take it during that time instead if you can remember to. I suck at taking supplements in the morning because I get distracted! But it helps much more when I remember and am consistent. It seems that consistency is super important in hormonal therapy.
Thanks! It was disappointing to get a breakout after bypassing the usual hormonal ones. I was getting too confident and I indulged in junk food....I truly over did it! I can't even pinpoint what caused the breakout bc I ate so much junk! And I felt so horrible afterwards, I couldn't sleep from the stomach pains. So I learned my lesson at least. And the breakout looked different than hormonal ones, it was more aggressive and my face got swollen. Ugh, I can't win! I'll try the HCL and stock up on digestive enzymes.
I'm trying to take most of inositol in the morning. it's hard bc it needs to be taken on an empty stomach, and I usually have to wait about an hour before having breakfast, but when I need to go to work I don't have that much time to wait. You're right, consistency is key with hormones.
Hey brenmc,
I tried both natural antihistamine and drugstore ones. The drugstore ones I tried over a year ago after the first time I got hives, and they helped but it's not healthy to take them every day. Actually, I got pulled over once when I was on the drugstore antihistamines and the cop thought I was on drugs, I was so out of it! So those were definitely too strong for me. Now the only antihistamine I take is vitamin C twice a day. Sometimes I also take allerase. 2 years ago a naturopath gave me sodium chloride drops for allergies...not sure how sodium chloride works as an antihistamine, but it did help decrease flare ups. What else would you recommend? Usually, I follow a low histamine diet so I don't need to really take anything more than vitamin C, but sometimes I get red spots on my arms from reactions to things like dust or cut grass...things I can't really have any control over.
I'm hoping the HCL will help and hopefully minimize allergies.
I'm starting to take most of my inositol in the morning too....although I also still take it at night too because it's water soluble, and I think it's best to also take a little bit at night to have a constant stream in your system. I divide my vitamin C intake into 2 doses a day as well for the same reason, but I take that with food. Glucosmart is supposed to be taken with food to control glucose intake, but theoretically if taken on an empty stomach it may have therapeutic purposes. I'm not sure though. The powder I take specifically says to take it between meals, but this is the form of inositol that people take for other things like anxiety and OCD, so I'm guessing that's why it works better on an empty stomach. I guess we'll have to experiment and see what works best.
Hmm when I was using NPC, I felt lethargic at the beginning, and it actually helped me sleep better at night but then I had trouble getting up in the morning. But you might be going through the estrogen wake-up symptoms that hearts explained. The estrogen wake-up may not happen right away, it might happen a few weeks or a month into taking NPC, so that may be what you are experiencing. How is your skin doing?
Hey WishClean, have you ever tried antihistamines for your food-related breakouts? It might help if it's allergy based.
I was taking my inositol at lunch, but since you pointed out that the therapeutic effects are better in the morning, I'm starting to take it in the morning.
I ordered the Emerita Pro-gest from Amazon. It has great reviews.
I don't know what's happening with me, but the last two nights I have had bad sleeps for the first time since starting progesterone cream. Hearts, did you ever experience that (great sleep and then not so great)? If so, did your sleeping get back in track and how?
**And to update on skin: Apart from those stupid red bumps, my oil production has slowed down a lot! I noticed it last week when I was blotting my face less. My hair also seems less oily. I wash it every 2 days but could probably do it every 3 now. A friend actually commented that my makeup seems too "drying," but it used to make me look more oily. So idk, maybe drier skin is a good sign acne-wise? But it probably makes my scars look deeper :/
Hey WishClean,
I'm sorry to hear about your breakout, I know how frustrating that can be, especially when you are hopeful a new treatment is/was totally controlling your acne (not that inositol won't in time, but we all hope for that magic bullet, despite experience). For me, inositol was supplementary to spiro. But I have nodular acne, so it requires a very rigorous treatment.
As for digestive enzymes, I've read some reviews which praise their ability to alleviate allergies; however, I've also read that some people have allergies to the enzymes themselves. You're not allergic to pineapple or papaya are you?
It sounds like you have very sensitive skin. I do too, I can't use many commonly recommended products. But I got a prescription for Elecon cream (not from my quack of a derm but from a clinic) and it helps with little rashes and things I get from time to time. It can also lessen the red appearance of breakouts. I know some websites discourage its use on acne lesions, but I found it helps when applied directly to them for no more than five days. The doctor at the clinic said that acne is only a possible side effect of the cream if it's used for a prolonged period, as it may cause a thinning of the skin. Be careful not to use too much or it can whiten (bleach) your skin a bit (which does ware off in a day).
I'll post an update about my skin later today (meant to yesterday but got stuck at school).
Sending you healing vibes. 
Hey brenmc,
I tried both natural antihistamine and drugstore ones. The drugstore ones I tried over a year ago after the first time I got hives, and they helped but it's not healthy to take them every day. Actually, I got pulled over once when I was on the drugstore antihistamines and the cop thought I was on drugs, I was so out of it! So those were definitely too strong for me. Now the only antihistamine I take is vitamin C twice a day. Sometimes I also take allerase. 2 years ago a naturopath gave me sodium chloride drops for allergies...not sure how sodium chloride works as an antihistamine, but it did help decrease flare ups. What else would you recommend? Usually, I follow a low histamine diet so I don't need to really take anything more than vitamin C, but sometimes I get red spots on my arms from reactions to things like dust or cut grass...things I can't really have any control over.
I'm hoping the HCL will help and hopefully minimize allergies.
I'm starting to take most of my inositol in the morning too....although I also still take it at night too because it's water soluble, and I think it's best to also take a little bit at night to have a constant stream in your system. I divide my vitamin C intake into 2 doses a day as well for the same reason, but I take that with food. Glucosmart is supposed to be taken with food to control glucose intake, but theoretically if taken on an empty stomach it may have therapeutic purposes. I'm not sure though. The powder I take specifically says to take it between meals, but this is the form of inositol that people take for other things like anxiety and OCD, so I'm guessing that's why it works better on an empty stomach. I guess we'll have to experiment and see what works best.
Hmm when I was using NPC, I felt lethargic at the beginning, and it actually helped me sleep better at night but then I had trouble getting up in the morning. But you might be going through the estrogen wake-up symptoms that hearts explained. The estrogen wake-up may not happen right away, it might happen a few weeks or a month into taking NPC, so that may be what you are experiencing. How is your skin doing?
Hey WishClean, have you ever tried antihistamines for your food-related breakouts? It might help if it's allergy based.
I was taking my inositol at lunch, but since you pointed out that the therapeutic effects are better in the morning, I'm starting to take it in the morning.
I ordered the Emerita Pro-gest from Amazon. It has great reviews.
I don't know what's happening with me, but the last two nights I have had bad sleeps for the first time since starting progesterone cream. Hearts, did you ever experience that (great sleep and then not so great)? If so, did your sleeping get back in track and how?
**And to update on skin: Apart from those stupid red bumps, my oil production has slowed down a lot! I noticed it last week when I was blotting my face less. My hair also seems less oily. I wash it every 2 days but could probably do it every 3 now. A friend actually commented that my makeup seems too "drying," but it used to make me look more oily. So idk, maybe drier skin is a good sign acne-wise? But it probably makes my scars look deeper :/
Hey WishClean, have you ever tried antihistamines for your food-related breakouts? It might help if it's allergy based.
I was taking my inositol at lunch, but since you pointed out that the therapeutic effects are better in the morning, I'm starting to take it in the morning.
I ordered the Emerita Pro-gest from Amazon. It has great reviews.
I don't know what's happening with me, but the last two nights I have had bad sleeps for the first time since starting progesterone cream. Hearts, did you ever experience that (great sleep and then not so great)? If so, did your sleeping get back in track and how?
That's strange... it could be coincidence, or it could be that you are still early on in using it. Are you stressed out or changed your diet at all? Those kinds of things can sometimes influence sleep.
I sleep well all the time now, except when I drink coffee at night like an idiot! lol
Ya, could be a coincidence. But, since I started NPC my sleeps have improved dramatically, with the exception of the last few nights. Im wondering if I need to adjust my dose or somethingIve posted an update on my topic if you want to check it out.
Hey WishClean, have you ever tried antihistamines for your food-related breakouts? It might help if it's allergy based.
I was taking my inositol at lunch, but since you pointed out that the therapeutic effects are better in the morning, I'm starting to take it in the morning.
I ordered the Emerita Pro-gest from Amazon. It has great reviews.
I don't know what's happening with me, but the last two nights I have had bad sleeps for the first time since starting progesterone cream. Hearts, did you ever experience that (great sleep and then not so great)? If so, did your sleeping get back in track and how?That's strange... it could be coincidence, or it could be that you are still early on in using it. Are you stressed out or changed your diet at all? Those kinds of things can sometimes influence sleep.
I sleep well all the time now, except when I drink coffee at night like an idiot! lol
Thanks brenmc! I hope your sleep improves soon.
I usually take digest spectrum and it hasn't caused issues for me before - in fact, it has helped me a lot in the past. It has papaya I believe. I've never heard of elecon cream, I'll check it out. Since I moved to a new city, I haven't been able to find a derm. The doctor I go to wants to recheck my vitamin D levels to see whether or not I was able to absorb the D2 supplements she prescribed. If my D levels have't increased since I last checked them, I may have trouble with malabsorption. Which could explain why all the supplements and herbs that got me clear in the past weren't working this time around.
These past 2 days I have been drinking aloe vera juice at night and also using it as a toner and my skin is calming down. The swelling is almost gone, but I still have a red spot that won't go away...there's no puss in it, and when I tried to extract it it got swollen so I'm leaving it alone now.
Hey WishClean,
I'm sorry to hear about your breakout, I know how frustrating that can be, especially when you are hopeful a new treatment is/was totally controlling your acne (not that inositol won't in time, but we all hope for that magic bullet, despite experience). For me, inositol was supplementary to spiro. But I have nodular acne, so it requires a very rigorous treatment.
As for digestive enzymes, I've read some reviews which praise their ability to alleviate allergies; however, I've also read that some people have allergies to the enzymes themselves. You're not allergic to pineapple or papaya are you?
It sounds like you have very sensitive skin. I do too, I can't use many commonly recommended products. But I got a prescription for Elecon cream (not from my quack of a derm but from a clinic) and it helps with little rashes and things I get from time to time. It can also lessen the red appearance of breakouts. I know some websites discourage its use on acne lesions, but I found it helps when applied directly to them for no more than five days. The doctor at the clinic said that acne is only a possible side effect of the cream if it's used for a prolonged period, as it may cause a thinning of the skin. Be careful not to use too much or it can whiten (bleach) your skin a bit (which does ware off in a day).
I'll post an update about my skin later today (meant to yesterday but got stuck at school).
Sending you healing vibes.
Hey greengables & anyone else who might know about this.
I have noticed a significant reduction in facial hair/fuzz & chin hair, but none yet on my body. I'm still not 3 months into inositol, and not even taking the full dose of the clinical studies so I'll definitely give it at least 6 months. But, from what I'm reading, it can increase estradiol....so I guess it's also estrogenic in addition to boosting progesterone and suppressing androgens. I'm wondering if I should add DIM at some point to make sure my estrogen doesn't rise too much. I noticed some mid-section weight gain but this started before inositol, when I stupidly picked up smoking again. I quit now, but haven't shifted the weight yet...that might also be due to gastrointestinal issues bc smoking aggravated my IBS. When I weighed myself, though, I was the same weight, so it could be water weight, who knows. Anyway, I'm guessing based on my regular cycle that my estrogen is either "normal" or more than I need. That's why I'm thinking whether I should at some point complement inositol with DIM. Before DIM, I would like to try adding more fiber to my diet, do you think this will help filter out excess estrogens? Normally, shouldn't the increase in estradiol be balanced by the increase in progesterone that inositol stimulates?
What do you make of these results for hirsutism? There is also a slight increase in cholesterol, which I guess I'll need to keep an eye on in case I need to take this long term or do a maintenance dose in the future. This study reports these results after 6 months:
No changes in BMI were observed. The hirsutism decreased after therapy (P < 0.001). Total androgens, FSH and LH concentrations decreased while oestradiol concentrations increased. There was a slight non-significant decrease in total cholesterol concentrations, an increase in HDL cholesterol concentrations and a decrease in LDL cholesterol concentrations. No significant changes were observed in serum triglyceride, apolipoprotein B and lipoprotein(a) concentrations. Insulin resistance (P < 0.01), analysed by homeostasis model assessment, was reduced significantly after therapy. Administration of oral myo-inositol significantly reduced hirsutism and hyperandrogenism and ameliorated the abnormal metabolic profile of women with hirsutism.
PS. I wonder why most studies on inositol took place in Italy....I guess bc Mediterraneans are hairier, I should know!
Thanks austra! I want to start baking with buckwheat too...how do you make buckwheat pizza, and can I make it without tomatoes? l haven't had pizza since I discovered that tomatoes raise my histamines.
I dissolve a teaspoon of carob powder into my tea every morning to get some chiro inositol. On its own it doesn't have much sugar and doesn't impact glucose. I need to find some carob recipes because it tastes pretty good.
Sorry I'm getting back to you so late! I just use the buckwheat crepe recipe found here (it's very easy and effortless to make, but takes a long time), add a bit of olive oil to the dough, spread it out on a baking tray and then put it in the oven for 15 min (it's like pancake batter so needs to be in the oven on its own first), take out and put regular pizza toppings on and put back for another 15 minutes. I really like the pizza. I'm pretty sure it would be nice even without tomato sauce. I was thinking of trying to mix in spinach and eggs with the buckwheat dough next time and try making some savoury pancakes on the pan.
I noticed that Stephan from Whole Health Source revisited the buckwheat recipe just now and apparently you can skip the fermentation bit! I've always done it until now and as it adds another 12 hours, it's great you can apparently make it a bit faster. The dough really doesn't keep very long if fermented, only a few days in the fridge.
Note that it's important to use either boiled or filtered water during the soaking, otherwise the phytic acid doesn't break down like it's supposed to (you can tell because nothing happens to the water at all if it's not right - it's supposed to get slimy and gray).
Sorry I'm getting back to you so late! I just use the buckwheat crepe recipe found here (it's very easy and effortless to make, but takes a long time), add a bit of olive oil to the dough, spread it out on a baking tray and then put it in the oven for 15 min (it's like pancake batter so needs to be in the oven on its own first), take out and put regular pizza toppings on and put back for another 15 minutes. I really like the pizza. I'm pretty sure it would be nice even without tomato sauce. I was thinking of trying to mix in spinach and eggs with the buckwheat dough next time and try making some savoury pancakes on the pan.
I noticed that Stephan from Whole Health Source revisited the buckwheat recipe just now and apparently you can skip the fermentation bit! I've always done it until now and as it adds another 12 hours, it's great you can apparently make it a bit faster. The dough really doesn't keep very long if fermented, only a few days in the fridge.
Note that it's important to use either boiled or filtered water during the soaking, otherwise the phytic acid doesn't break down like it's supposed to (you can tell because nothing happens to the water at all if it's not right - it's supposed to get slimy and gray).
Thanks so much for the link! I was super interested in using buckwheat before since it's gluten free, but now even more so if it is a good source of inositol! (: I'm so gonna cook with it now! Good to know legumes are high in it too, I'm a sicko for hummus haha.
I found this recipe on pinterest a while back, which looks SO good, and made with buckwheat flour and berries. It's a simple recipe, which could be altered easily (cutting sugar, substituting, etc.) Anyway, thought I would share: http://www.cookyourdream.com/2010/12/winter-buckwheat-berry-crumble.html
Great recipes! There's a recipe circulating on the soulcysters forum for PCOS blaster muffins with chiro-inositol from buchwheat farinetta. Apparently it works well for hormonal balancing.
2 c. buckwheat farinetta
c. soy lecithin
1 T. baking powder
1 t. sea salt
4 t. cinnamon
1/2 c. flaxmeal (or fresh-ground flax seeds)
3 mashed bananas
2 T. brown rice syrup
4 t. stevia plus FOS (spoonable stevia, not the pure extract)
2 eggs
c. water
3 T. cold-pressed oil
2 t. vanilla
1 c. blueberries
Mix dry ingredients. Mix wet ingredients, including dry stevia. Add wet to dry ingredients and mix with fewest possible strokes.
Bake at 375 deg. For 25-30 min. Makes 12 muffins.
ONE muffin has about 17.5g digestible carbs, PLUS about 4.5 g or more fiber (non-digestible carbs, don't affect blood sugar).
Read more: [Edited link out]
I wanted to update because I can officially say that I am no longer on the verge of growing a beard lol. Inositol is doing a good job of keeping hirsutism in check. I didn't take it for a couple of days during ovulation to check if I can take it only on days where progesterone & estrogen don't peak, but I got a couple of stray hairs on my chin. The other positive change is that my blood flow during my period has been looking more normal since I started the inositol, which I'm thrilled about.
Anyway, I'm going to the doctor on Wednesday to check my Vitamin D levels, and I thought I should get my hormones checked while I'm there. I'm going to ask for the full panel, but the thing is, I feel more "balanced" hormonally and I hope the tests will still be able to give me an indication of which hormones are off. I hope the full panel also included cortisol, because I was under chronic stress for over a year and I bet my cortisol was off the charts. Does anyone know if they can check melatonin as well? I have chronic insomnia, but at this point I don't want to add a melatonin supplement to help me sleep because I don't want to add to many things to my regimen.
I added CDG a few days ago, and so far so good. Only taking 200mg - not sure how much I would need to take for PCOS, but on the bottle it says not to exceed this dose. It does seem a bit low though. I will ask my doc about DIM too, I'm still considering it!
I was curious, was your hirsutism facial hair always dark? Do you get blonde hairs that are too long to really qualify as peach fuzz?
I always had some blonde peach fuzz all over my face, but I also had dark hair. I'm mediterranean so I grew up around friends and relatives who had some form of hirsutism, and doctors always blamed it on genetics. I also had some laser hair treatments on my sideburns (those were dark) and after that I think the heat from the laser triggered dormant hair follicles in other parts of my face because I started noticing that my peach fuzz was getting darker. At the same time as the laser treatments, though, I was also taking vitex and I think that both played a part in exacerbating hirsutism.
This summer, after another series of unsuccessful laser treatments, I noticed more dark hair on my chin, sides of face, and neck. It was so embarrassing, I felt like I was growing a beard. That was probably due to the laser, since I wasn't taking anything hormonal. Within a week of taking inositol, I noticed that the hair was less dense, and now it's even more so but not completely gone. I think once you have hirsutism, it never goes away completely. My mom was lucky with electrolysis, but me and my sister are still struggling with it. Interestingly, my sister's hirsutism also increased after laser hair removal, and her hair was coarser and more noticeable.
Did you have hirsutism or other signs of androgen excess before you went on spiro?
UPDATE: I went to the doctor today. She thinks I have systemic inflammation, which is what may have caused leaky gut/ candida. She gave me a diet to follow for 3 weeks (will post in the holistic forum). Yesterday I had some ice cream, and a few days ago a cookie, and my face swelled up and was still swollen today. She said that's not acne, it's an allergic reaction, and that I need to address both issues. She told me to go back on glutathione and follow a specific diet until the lab results come in.
She also thinks I'm estrogen dominant, and that I need to find something to complement the inositol since that is helping with androgens and progesterone.
I was a bit disappointed that my insurance couldn't cover saliva testing, so she had to just draw blood instead. The only reason I agreed was because it's the 1st day of my period and if I do have estrogen dominance it will show up in the results because I picked a day when I was very hormonal.
The doctor recommended myomin for estrogen dominance, which I might consider once I get the lab results. Has anyone heard of myomin??? Some women take it on the soulcysters forum, but I haven't had time to research it yet. This is what I found:
Each 2 capsules of Myomin contain:
Aralia dasyphyllia Mig. 200 mg
Cucuma zedoria 200 mg
Cyperus rotundus 200 mg
Smilax glabra Roxb. 200 mg
According to the manufacturer: "Myomin, a Chinese herbal formula, is a natural aromatase inhibitor. Aromatase converts androgens into estrogen. My inhibiting this effect less estrogen becomes produced. In one study of 60 females estradiol levels decreased from 74 pg/ml to 38 pg/ml after 10 days. Myomin also competes with estradiol at the cellular estrogen receptor. It also increases interferon, Il-2 and TNFa."
From Dr Chi's website:
Myomin has three functions
- It inhibits the aromatase enzyme, effectively reducing estradiol levels by preventing the conversion of androgens to estrone and estradiol. This allows testosterone and estriol (the good estrogen) to accumulate. Aromatase inhibition has become a worthwhile target in many estrogen-dominant disorders
- It competes with estradiol at the estrogen receptors. This function is particularly effective in cases where estrogen receptors are fully stimulated (e.g. after HRT). Competing with estradiol prevents estradiol from binding to receptors. As a result, proliferation of cells is avoided and abnormal growth inhibited.
- In increase interferon (IFN) and interleukin-2 (IL-2). IL-2 induces the proliferation of immune cells, enhancing the body's ability to kill tumor cells. IFN stimulates natural killer cells and is active against tumors.
It is worth noting that, in the Chang Hai Hospital studies show that approximately 1% of the subjects taking Myomin experienced side effects such as nausea and bloating. These symptoms abate when Myomin dosage is reduced or when it is taken with meals
Hey Wishclean, i was wondering what your progress is like with inositol? Mine came in the mail today! And i took 1/4 teaspoon of it with a smoothie i made.
So far, Vitex and Saw palmetto have not really been doing any much with my skin. I am thinking of getting off vitex because i think its making me break out even more. However i'm wondering, when you got off vitex did you break out even more? Im a little bit scared because thats the last thing i need right now :/ If inositol works i really wanna get off saw palmetto too. My stomach is always uneasy, not too an unbearable point but just becuase i keep incorporating all these things into my body.
Thanks
UPDATE: I went to the doctor today. She thinks I have systemic inflammation, which is what may have caused leaky gut/ candida. She gave me a diet to follow for 3 weeks (will post in the holistic forum). Yesterday I had some ice cream, and a few days ago a cookie, and my face swelled up and was still swollen today. She said that's not acne, it's an allergic reaction, and that I need to address both issues. She told me to go back on glutathione and follow a specific diet until the lab results come in.
She also thinks I'm estrogen dominant, and that I need to find something to complement the inositol since that is helping with androgens and progesterone.
I was a bit disappointed that my insurance couldn't cover saliva testing, so she had to just draw blood instead. The only reason I agreed was because it's the 1st day of my period and if I do have estrogen dominance it will show up in the results because I picked a day when I was very hormonal.
The doctor recommended myomin for estrogen dominance, which I might consider once I get the lab results. Has anyone heard of myomin??? Some women take it on the soulcysters forum, but I haven't had time to research it yet. This is what I found:
Each 2 capsules of Myomin contain:
Aralia dasyphyllia Mig. 200 mg
Cucuma zedoria 200 mg
Cyperus rotundus 200 mg
Smilax glabra Roxb. 200 mg
According to the manufacturer: "Myomin, a Chinese herbal formula, is a natural aromatase inhibitor. Aromatase converts androgens into estrogen. My inhibiting this effect less estrogen becomes produced. In one study of 60 females estradiol levels decreased from 74 pg/ml to 38 pg/ml after 10 days. Myomin also competes with estradiol at the cellular estrogen receptor. It also increases interferon, Il-2 and TNFa."
From Dr Chi's website:
Myomin has three functions
- It inhibits the aromatase enzyme, effectively reducing estradiol levels by preventing the conversion of androgens to estrone and estradiol. This allows testosterone and estriol (the good estrogen) to accumulate. Aromatase inhibition has become a worthwhile target in many estrogen-dominant disorders
- It competes with estradiol at the estrogen receptors. This function is particularly effective in cases where estrogen receptors are fully stimulated (e.g. after HRT). Competing with estradiol prevents estradiol from binding to receptors. As a result, proliferation of cells is avoided and abnormal growth inhibited.
- In increase interferon (IFN) and interleukin-2 (IL-2). IL-2 induces the proliferation of immune cells, enhancing the body's ability to kill tumor cells. IFN stimulates natural killer cells and is active against tumors.
It is worth noting that, in the Chang Hai Hospital studies show that approximately 1% of the subjects taking Myomin experienced side effects such as nausea and bloating. These symptoms abate when Myomin dosage is reduced or when it is taken with meals
Hi Wishclean,
A few quick comments on Myomin. If it's an aromatase inhibitor, then that means that testosterone will be inhibited from converting to estradiol. The other direction in the metabolic pathway is toward DHT. So, an aromatase inhibitor will decrease estrogen, increase androgens (DHT) and potentate the effectiveness of androgens by lowering SHBG.
Oddly you seem to have the opposite response.
Hi cheriee,
I'm still taking inositol! I actually stopped for a few days because I was going to take some blood tests, and my skin got worse and I also got a few stray chin hairs. So it's definitely working, but I need to increase the dose because my testosterone is on the high end of the "normal" range and might be too high for me.
I will also be taking chiro inositol, I just got it in the mail today and can't wait to try it. It's supposed to be stronger than myo inositol and it works faster, but it's better to always go for the cheaper option first to see if it works for you. Inositol works better on an empty stomach...I usually just take it with water right after I wake up, and also in between meals. Try to take most of it in the morning, then wait at least 30 mins before eating. Also try to take it once more in the afternoon to make sure it stays in your system because it's water soluble.
Do you have PCOS?
Vitex cleared me steadily, so I don't think it's one of those things where it gets worse before it gets better, at least in my case. But when I got off it my hormones were off balance again and the acne came back full force unfortunately. I'm hoping inositol will be enough for me because supplements like this one are much safer than herbs in the long run.
Hey Wishclean, i was wondering what your progress is like with inositol? Mine came in the mail today! And i took 1/4 teaspoon of it with a smoothie i made.
So far, Vitex and Saw palmetto have not really been doing any much with my skin. I am thinking of getting off vitex because i think its making me break out even more. However i'm wondering, when you got off vitex did you break out even more? Im a little bit scared because thats the last thing i need right now :/ If inositol works i really wanna get off saw palmetto too. My stomach is always uneasy, not too an unbearable point but just becuase i keep incorporating all these things into my body.
Thanks
Hi jlcampi,
Isn't that how vitex is supposed to work as well? I'm not sure why I got more facial and body hair on vitex, why do you think that is? Most women say it reduces their testosterone, not the other way round.
I got my lab results today.. they didn't even test for SHBG! Testosterone was 35, so in the higher end of normal (2-45), DHEA sulfate was 205 (40-325 range), progesterone 0.9 on day 2 of my cycle, and estradiol (I'm guessing E1 or E2, or total? ) is 48, so it's actually on the low end of normal. But they only measured 1 type of estradiol.
The doctor's suggestions were to start using progesterone cream or start the myomin or go back to vitex, or try DIM. But she said if inositol is working I should just up the dose and stick with it and hopefully I won't need anything else. She wasn't that helpful in terms of telling me which route she thinks it's the best. She even mentioned spironolactone but I have low blood pressure and anyway I wouldn't take it because I hate taking drugs long term. She also wanted me to start retin-A, but my skin is so sensitive and I can't bare to go through another "it gets worse before better" phase.
Hi Wishclean,
A few quick comments on Myomin. If it's an aromatase inhibitor, then that means that testosterone will be inhibited from converting to estradiol. The other direction in the metabolic pathway is toward DHT. So, an aromatase inhibitor will decrease estrogen, increase androgens (DHT) and potentate the effectiveness of androgens by lowering SHBG.
Oddly you seem to have the opposite response.
Hi Wishclean,
I'm not familiar with Vitex other than what very limited information I've read here. There is only one thing that causes body/facial hair growth and that is DHT. The effects of androgens will be amplified by lowering opposing hormones. For example using an aromatase inhibitor or decreasing cortisol.
I'm assuming that you listed total testosterone? Could you include the units with each analyte tested?
For example, optimal Total Testosterone in Women is:
35 ng/mL but the lab could also report in other units such as pg/mL and others.
Estradiol is E2, Estrone is E1.
E1 is useful in determining if you have pcos. It's probable if lh>fsh and E1>E2 on day 21.
I can't comment on estradiol or progesterone other than to say they are both low as expected this time of the month.
Most female testing is standarized to day 13 or 21 to catch ovulation and the progesterone peak. Optimal day is 21.
If you have low blood pressure then it's possible you have a cortisol/aldosterone deficiency. You have mentioned stress in the past. Excessive, chronic stress can weaken the adrenal system, setting you up for inflammation among other things.
Have you had your 8 am cortisol checked?
How about sodium?
The reason your doc didn't suggest a particular approach is most likely because she doesn't know where to go. My battery is about dead so I will stop here.
I'm still not sure why vitex caused increased hair growth. Theoretically speaking, it should reduce androgens/ DHT. My guess is that, by adjusting the progesterone: estrogen ratio (and inevitably reducing estrogen), it comparatively produced a higher amount of androgens in my body. BUT, the strange thing was that I was manifesting symptoms of high androgens (some facial & body hair, some hair loss on head, high libido) and yet my skin was clear....which indicates to me that I have more of an issue with prog/ estrogen when it comes to acne. DHT blockers like androcur, saw palmetto, and spearmint tea were only able to slightly address the hair growth, not the acne.
Anyway, the figures I posted were all they gave me. Very useless, I was disappointed but doctors don't like patients telling them how to do their job. I'm going to stick with inositol at a higher dosage and see if all the issues resolve. The dr basically gave me too many suggestions at this point...I don't even know if it's worth getting the progesterone cream prescription filled.
Hi Wishclean,
I'm not familiar with Vitex other than what very limited information I've read here. There is only one thing that causes body/facial hair growth and that is DHT. The effects of androgens will be amplified by lowering opposing hormones. For example using an aromatase inhibitor or decreasing cortisol.
I'm assuming that you listed total testosterone? Could you include the units with each analyte tested?
For example, optimal Total Testosterone in Women is:
35 ng/mL but the lab could also report in other units such as pg/mL and others.Estradiol is E2, Estrone is E1.
E1 is useful in determining if you have pcos. It's probable if lh>fsh and E1>E2 on day 21.I can't comment on estradiol or progesterone other than to say they are both low as expected this time of the month.
Most female testing is standarized to day 13 or 21 to catch ovulation and the progesterone peak. Optimal day is 21.
If you have low blood pressure then it's possible you have a cortisol/aldosterone deficiency. You have mentioned stress in the past. Excessive, chronic stress can weaken the adrenal system, setting you up for inflammation among other things.
Have you had your 8 am cortisol checked?
How about sodium?The reason your doc didn't suggest a particular approach is most likely because she doesn't know where to go. My battery is about dead so I will stop here.
I likely won't have a chance to reply, I'll be away for week, but I just wanted to say that I lowered my dose of NPC to a half teaspoon every second day because I don't think it was improving my acne. Sticking with the spiro and some vitamins as well as trying to manage my insulin. I'll update when I'm back.
I'm still not sure why vitex caused increased hair growth. Theoretically speaking, it should reduce androgens/ DHT. My guess is that, by adjusting the progesterone: estrogen ratio (and inevitably reducing estrogen), it comparatively produced a higher amount of androgens in my body. BUT, the strange thing was that I was manifesting symptoms of high androgens (some facial & body hair, some hair loss on head, high libido) and yet my skin was clear....which indicates to me that I have more of an issue with prog/ estrogen when it comes to acne. DHT blockers like androcur, saw palmetto, and spearmint tea were only able to slightly address the hair growth, not the acne.
Anyway, the figures I posted were all they gave me. Very useless, I was disappointed but doctors don't like patients telling them how to do their job. I'm going to stick with inositol at a higher dosage and see if all the issues resolve. The dr basically gave me too many suggestions at this point...I don't even know if it's worth getting the progesterone cream prescription filled.
Hi Wishclean,
I'm not familiar with Vitex other than what very limited information I've read here. There is only one thing that causes body/facial hair growth and that is DHT. The effects of androgens will be amplified by lowering opposing hormones. For example using an aromatase inhibitor or decreasing cortisol.
I'm assuming that you listed total testosterone? Could you include the units with each analyte tested?
For example, optimal Total Testosterone in Women is:
35 ng/mL but the lab could also report in other units such as pg/mL and others.Estradiol is E2, Estrone is E1.
E1 is useful in determining if you have pcos. It's probable if lh>fsh and E1>E2 on day 21.I can't comment on estradiol or progesterone other than to say they are both low as expected this time of the month.
Most female testing is standarized to day 13 or 21 to catch ovulation and the progesterone peak. Optimal day is 21.
If you have low blood pressure then it's possible you have a cortisol/aldosterone deficiency. You have mentioned stress in the past. Excessive, chronic stress can weaken the adrenal system, setting you up for inflammation among other things.
Have you had your 8 am cortisol checked?
How about sodium?The reason your doc didn't suggest a particular approach is most likely because she doesn't know where to go. My battery is about dead so I will stop here.
I'm still not sure why vitex caused increased hair growth. Theoretically speaking, it should reduce androgens/ DHT. My guess is that, by adjusting the progesterone: estrogen ratio (and inevitably reducing estrogen), it comparatively produced a higher amount of androgens in my body. BUT, the strange thing was that I was manifesting symptoms of high androgens (some facial & body hair, some hair loss on head, high libido) and yet my skin was clear....which indicates to me that I have more of an issue with prog/ estrogen when it comes to acne. DHT blockers like androcur, saw palmetto, and spearmint tea were only able to slightly address the hair growth, not the acne.
Anyway, the figures I posted were all they gave me. Very useless, I was disappointed but doctors don't like patients telling them how to do their job. I'm going to stick with inositol at a higher dosage and see if all the issues resolve. The dr basically gave me too many suggestions at this point...I don't even know if it's worth getting the progesterone cream prescription filled.
Hi Wishclean,
I'm not familiar with Vitex other than what very limited information I've read here. There is only one thing that causes body/facial hair growth and that is DHT. The effects of androgens will be amplified by lowering opposing hormones. For example using an aromatase inhibitor or decreasing cortisol.
I'm assuming that you listed total testosterone? Could you include the units with each analyte tested?
For example, optimal Total Testosterone in Women is:
35 ng/mL but the lab could also report in other units such as pg/mL and others.
Estradiol is E2, Estrone is E1.
E1 is useful in determining if you have pcos. It's probable if lh>fsh and E1>E2 on day 21.
I can't comment on estradiol or progesterone other than to say they are both low as expected this time of the month.
Most female testing is standarized to day 13 or 21 to catch ovulation and the progesterone peak. Optimal day is 21.
If you have low blood pressure then it's possible you have a cortisol/aldosterone deficiency. You have mentioned stress in the past. Excessive, chronic stress can weaken the adrenal system, setting you up for inflammation among other things.
Have you had your 8 am cortisol checked?
How about sodium?
The reason your doc didn't suggest a particular approach is most likely because she doesn't know where to go. My battery is about dead so I will stop here.
I looked it up earlier. Vitex has some aromatase activity. So, it reduces conversion of testosterone to estradiol and pushes the reaction toward dht. It makes sense that you might have hair growth with this supplement.
Men frequently use the more potent aromatase inhibitors like Ariimidex when supplementing with testosterone for hormone replacement therapy. It dramatically reduces conversion to estradiol. Testosterone must be metabolized, so the 5 alpha reductase enzyme picks up the slack and converts a larger share of testosterone to DHT.
SHBG is direcltly related to estradiol concentration. When the aromatase inhibitors are used and the reaction of testosterone is pushed toward DHT, SHBG is reduced. SHBG binds testosterone and other sex hormones. When this substance decreases it frees up more of the active hormone. In this case testosterone is potentiated.
Keep in mind though that Estradiol stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system and is also the most potent simulator of libido in both men and women (androgens must also be at a sufficient level). Tank estradiol in both men and women and you will dramatically reduce your energy levels and libido.
This is one of the reasons you take progesterone at night. It neutralizes estradiol and makes you feel tired and relaxed. Estradiol has the opposite effect.