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This is so confusing and heart breaking. I can't even look at myself with all of these huge pores, cracks and indents. Iread we need to do dermabrasion in hopes that the skin would heal properly afterwards. That or to do exfoliation because we absolutely need to get rid of the orange peel texture, and that no oil, cream, potion or lotion will help that. But I'm confused because this is barrier damage, not normal open pores. So who do we listen to when the medical community has no answers and are just guessing? Why is this so hard to fix? Do you guys have water loss and no oil production? I have zero oil and severe epidermal water loss.
I have 2 friends dealing with the same retinol damage as me and we are all treating it in different ways, but none of us are healing. I'm using restorative topicals. My one friend is using squalane oil and taking supplements. And my other friend is using what her dermatologist recommended (and she's been to like 7 different derms) which is metrogel, Avene cream and honey as a wash.
I wonder if the OP healed? I'm so curious. I wish she would update us! I think we need our own forum for this type of damage. It's just not the same as IPL or laser damage but it does resemble it in some ways. Especially now that you can buy prescription strength retinoids over the counter. More and more people are going to come forward with this type of damage. We need to be taken seriously by the medical community...
3 hours ago, Cardboard Wall said:because i am a lazy bastard and haven't read through each and every post, did you try dietary changes?
If not, get off the dairy and junk food in general.
Check this guy:
I've been gluten and dairy free for 1 1/2 years now and the only thing that has done is lessened my acne. I've been on a Whole Foods plant based diet for a little while now and so far that hasn't helped either. I do agree with you though that we need to tackle this both internally and externally.
21 hours ago, mutualhippo said:On 8/23/2017 at 6:53 PM, ComfyCozy2 said:Hey that's so good to hear! I also use niacinamide, but a serum that also has licorice root and green tea for damaged skin. I was worried about you!
The ordinary didn't work as well for me than this stuff, but we al have dif skin.Btw, I started taking reservatrol supplements too after reading this
https://www.futurederm.com/why-you-should-use-niacinamide-only-with-resveratrol/
Totally agree. I've been using this stuff (as well as other things from the site)
https://www.stratiaskin.com/products/liquid-gold
I seriously think it's the ceramides and the seabuckthorn oil that make this stuff a miracle. I had a similar bad reaction to retin aHey, thanks for the reply! How long have you been using the liquid gold, and how long did it take before you saw improvement? Your success is very encouraging. Thank you so much.
I've only been using it for a month, I know that's the bare minimum for trying out products. I also started taking Astaxanthin as a supplement too.
I noticed a difference after about two weeks. I went on a skincare purge and slowly adding new things, so I can really tell what makes a difference.
I 'm currently at (since a month ago) Hemp oil cleanse (although I don't steam it off, just wash), cerave hydrating, stratia liquid gold, cosrx snail cream, then a light layer of hemp oil. After starting the stratia, I wake up and my face has this "warm plump" feeling instead of the dry rough feeling. After I do a light morning wash my face feels really cool and bright/hydrated. It's my new fav feeling. I'm looking at SkinActives Collagen serum or the Every Lipid Serum because theyre cheap, but theyre behind other things. Skinceuticals is so expensive :0! They def have good products though. I also want to add Snowbang Ceramide Essence from Holy Snails Shop, as I just bought the Shark Sauce Niacinamide thing I love it. Someone also posted about a japanese ceramide toner Kikumasamune High Moist Lotion (lotion is a hydrating toner there) on reddit. I ended up on the Asian Beauty reddit and found a lot of stuff! Too much stuff...I may be going overboard with hydrating/ceramides...haha. Feel free to critique how overboard I am, a I'm not familiar with the correct ratios. But ceramides made such a difference in my barrier that I can lightly exfoliate with a konjac sponge a few times a week and nothing burns anymore. I use a dermaroller to improve texture and that really doesn't even bother me now. It was helping a lot with texture before, but I'd be dry and uncomfortable for a while
I will say that for the last few months my diet and water intake has been strict and good. I know diet and skincare can take a few months to start showing improvement, which has been the hardest thing for me. Two weeks feel like forever and I want to just try something new.
Where did you learn about proper ratios? I'm not sure if this is the same thing, but my diet is currently very high in olive oil, krill oil, and sea buckthorn. I feel like I read somewhere that you need those fats that coat your cells to keep hydration (don't quote me on that!)
4 hours ago, Yola4 said:This is so confusing and heart breaking. I can't even look at myself with all of these huge pores, cracks and indents. Iread we need to do dermabrasion in hopes that the skin would heal properly afterwards. That or to do exfoliation because we absolutely need to get rid of the orange peel texture, and that no oil, cream, potion or lotion will help that. But I'm confused because this is barrier damage, not normal open pores. So who do we listen to when the medical community has no answers and are just guessing? Why is this so hard to fix? Do you guys have water loss and no oil production? I have zero oil and severe epidermal water loss.
I have 2 friends dealing with the same retinol damage as me and we are all treating it in different ways, but none of us are healing. I'm using restorative topicals. My one friend is using squalane oil and taking supplements. And my other friend is using what her dermatologist recommended (and she's been to like 7 different derms) which is metrogel, Avene cream and honey as a wash.
I wonder if the OP healed? I'm so curious. I wish she would update us! I think we need our own forum for this type of damage. It's just not the same as IPL or laser damage but it does resemble it in some ways. Especially now that you can buy prescription strength retinoids over the counter. More and more people are going to come forward with this type of damage. We need to be taken seriously by the medical community...
I've been gluten and dairy free for 1 1/2 years now and the only thing that has done is lessened my acne. I've been on a Whole Foods plant based diet for a little while now and so far that hasn't helped either. I do agree with you though that we need to tackle this both internally and externally.
OP did post an update about improvement above, using high niacinamide. Maybe it's on the page before. More exfoliation may make them bigger. You need the opposite of exfoliation. When my high oil diet and barrier repair routine started making a difference, I started dermarolling for textural issues. This is a year in the making. You'll get better <3 Keep trying!
https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianBeauty/comments/5q470h/former_dehydrated_sensitive_skin_abers_what/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SkincareAddiction/comments/6gd5t8/personal_routine_help_thank_you_sca_my_moisture/
15 minutes ago, ComfyCozy2 said:I've only been using it for a month, I know that's the bare minimum for trying out products. I also started taking Astaxanthin as a supplement too.
I noticed a difference after about two weeks. I went on a skincare purge and slowly adding new things, so I can really tell what makes a difference.
I 'm currently at (since a month ago) Hemp oil cleanse (although I don't steam it off, just wash), cerave hydrating, stratia liquid gold, cosrx snail cream, then a light layer of hemp oil. After starting the stratia, I wake up and my face has this "warm plump" feeling instead of the dry rough feeling. After I do a light morning wash my face feels really cool and bright/hydrated. It's my new fav feeling. I'm looking at SkinActives Collagen serum or the Every Lipid Serum because theyre cheap, but theyre behind other things. Skinceuticals is so expensive :0! They def have good products though. I also want to add Snowbang Ceramide Essence from Holy Snails Shop, as I just bought the Shark Sauce Niacinamide thing I love it. Someone also posted about a japanese ceramide toner Kikumasamune High Moist Lotion (lotion is a hydrating toner there) on reddit. I ended up on the Asian Beauty reddit and found a lot of stuff! Too much stuff...I may be going overboard with hydrating/ceramides...haha. Feel free to critique how overboard I am, a I'm not familiar with the correct ratios. But ceramides made such a difference in my barrier that I can lightly exfoliate with a konjac sponge a few times a week and nothing burns anymore. I use a dermaroller to improve texture and that really doesn't even bother me now. It was helping a lot with texture before, but I'd be dry and uncomfortable for a while
I will say that for the last few months my diet and water intake has been strict and good. I know diet and skincare can take a few months to start showing improvement, which has been the hardest thing for me. Two weeks feel like forever and I want to just try something new.
Where did you learn about proper ratios? I'm not sure if this is the same thing, but my diet is currently very high in olive oil, krill oil, and sea buckthorn. I feel like I read somewhere that you need those fats that coat your cells to keep hydration (don't quote me on that!)
Could you please send links to the products/where you got them from.
I'm very interested and open to trying new things, however it does annoy me how much god damn money I spend on skincare only to find it doesn't work and money goes down the drain.
Im getting really upset over this condition now because things I thought were helping me still haven't got RID of it. THATS ALL I WANT, FOR ALL OF US
32 minutes ago, H4nnz said:Could you please send links to the products/where you got them from.I'm very interested and open to trying new things, however it does annoy me how much god damn money I spend on skincare only to find it doesn't work and money goes down the drain.
Im getting really upset over this condition now because things I thought were helping me still haven't got RID of it. THATS ALL I WANT, FOR ALL OF US
I can make a list later and will PM it to you, as well as links to some useful information that I bookmarked. Not sure if mods are weird about linking too much here? Especially since this website sells stuff. Also, just a reminder that some on the list are "wish list" status, but I'm not ready to incorporate them into routine yet. So maybe you if you get them, you can review. Also I'm a bit older than you, I naturally produce less oil and I don't have trouble with blackheads/clogged pores currently.
4 hours ago, H4nnz said:Hey guys, I thought I'd share this bit of research I found on the net. This is from someone who has got rid of their orange peel texture once and for all.
Has anyone heard about this? Keen to investigate the products they used and see if it may actually work.
Yes that was one of the first posts I found when researching this. Idk about you guys but I don't have to pinch my skin for it to look orange peel...it looks awful without any manipulation at all. I have so many products it's unbelievable (I have at least 4-5 of the products comfy cozy mentions in her above post).
After reading that post, a couple months ago, I went to my local health food store and bought whatever I could find that was similar to what she was taking. I bought Nutiva Hemp seed oil, Youtheory Advanced Collagen type 1,2 and 3, Solgar Hyaluronic acid capsules, Royal Brittany Evening primrose oil, and added in source naturals dmae. So far nothing has improved. But like I've mentioned my damage is more than just large pores/orange peel texture.
Before and After 
Yes, H4nzz, that was why I included the Dmae into it specifically because of that post. And that's the exact routine I started with, and it broke me out in such horrific acne.
Now I'm doing things differently. I'm using the whole Asian beauty routine to see if I can cover all of my bases. I'musing one product for plumping the dermal cushion, one product to lift the skin, one product to fix the lost elasticity, one product to increase collagen levels, and an RNF-1 peptide moisturizer that is 10% niacinamide. (RNF-1 peptide is scientifically designed to initiate cellular responses of repair and regeneration, targeting growth layers of the skin).It's only been 5 weeks using this new routine, and so far no improvements but I was told it would take 3-4 months to see a visible difference. This is so traumatic...I find myself avoiding any and all "unfamiliar mirrors." We have to find a solution guys! And we also have to stick together through this. Feel free to dm me if you need someone to vent to.We desperately need to build each otherup right now. My heart goes out to each and every one of you dealing with thisdisaster <3
^I agree. I didn't even read her last message to me in that thread tbh.
How did you like Youtheory capsules? I was trying NeoCell Collagen, but it was giving me such a strange reaction. I'd feel sick and then anxious. It was very weird. The pills were also HUGE and I had to swallow 4 of them in a dose :O.
So sorry Yola, for what it's worth, you have incredible eye lashes and beautiful features. I'm sure you're beautiful even with compromised skin. But I understand how you feel, your skin was so perfect before. Mine never looked that good even before! I can't believe a doc would even suggest retin a for you. I feel we don't need more exfoliation because the retin a stripped so much, that we're just missing layers or something. I also did something similar to you, I chose things I felt I NEEDED in my routine for each issue. Although I'm a lot better, I avoid certain mirrors at my college. I understand familiar mirrors, I've even waited to use one until I return home to my own with lighting I know. I have gotten to the point where I'm more surprised that it looks okay when I look into a new mirror, than horrified and hopeless. I believe everything just takes a lottttt of time and care.
11 hours ago, H4nnz said:Wow... I only put it on here as I thought other users would find it helpful.
Jeez.
I give up
Huh??? Is that directed towards me? I'm so confused.
You specifically asked, "has anyone heard about this?" So I told you my experience. Which you asked for...so you didn't just put it up to be helpful. The more and more I read these threads, the more and more I realize how toxic some people are. There's a difference between being upset/depressed about it or being mean. Weare all dealing with this so giving an attitude isn't going to make things better. Have you seen my picture? Like seriously....
6 hours ago, Yola4 said:Huh??? Is that directed towards me? I'm so confused.
You specifically asked, "has anyone heard about this?" So I told you my experience. Which you asked for...so you didn't just put it up to be helpful. The more and more I read these threads, the more and more I realize how toxic some people are. There's a difference between being upset/depressed about it or being mean. Weare all dealing with this so giving an attitude isn't going to make things better. Have you seen my picture? Like seriously....
Why would this be directed towards you? Obviously I put it on here as I thought it would be helpful. I was the one who started this thread, because I wanted to reach out to others going through the same thing? I wanted to try and FIND a solution. Don't tell me I'm the one who's got an attitude? Yes, I saw your pictures. I was in the process of replying to you .
I quote @comfycozy2 "I didn't even read her last message to me in that thread tbh". Whats that supposed to mean? it blatantly tells me she doesn't care about acknowledging anything I've said? She just chooses to ignore me because it's some 'old' info that you've both already come across...
The more and more I try to contribute and get somewhere with this the more disheartened and degraded I feel. I'm stuck and constantly clinging onto anything for a glimpse of hope.
4 hours ago, H4nnz said:Why would this be directed towards you? Obviously I put it on here as I thought it would be helpful. I was the one who started this thread, because I wanted to reach out to others going through the same thing? I wanted to try and FIND a solution. Don't tell me I'm the one who's got an attitude? Yes, I saw your pictures. I was in the process of replying to you .I quote @comfycozy2 "I didn't even read her last message to me in that thread tbh". Whats that supposed to mean? it blatantly tells me she doesn't care about acknowledging anything I've said? She just chooses to ignore me because it's some 'old' info that you've both already come across...
The more and more I try to contribute and get somewhere with this the more disheartened and degraded I feel. I'm stuck and constantly clinging onto anything for a glimpse of hope.
Woah that wasn't towards you at all. Yola had written something about another thread we were in that had a lot of negativity, and then I guess she edited it out later. Which is fine, but I didn't notice that she had removed it when I responded. I read all the screenshots you posted! Sorry for the misunderstanding
<3 so sorry if that made you feel bad, it wasn't towards you and you've been very helpful. I'll still send you that product list, although I think I'm going to back off from using this account and make a reddit account. Everyone in the AB area seems really well informed and positive, and well as skincareaddiction. Seems as though you can get a lot of good advice there, so maybe you should make one too? Has a lot more people traffic too, so you're likely to get more advice
15 hours ago, H4nnz said:So far nothing's changed guys...
wow my skin really is fucked
I'm sorry there hasn't been any changes. If i were to be honest i still feel your skin is quite pretty. Chin up dear. You've been really strong trying to hold on and finding a solution!
How long have you been using cerave pm and you still using it?
Aside of that what has been your routine?
I've had this texture for close to 5 years and I have done lots of trials with my skin, mostly i tried to stickto a regime for at the very least 3 months. Also it's more obvious under natural light.
Dermarolling 0.25mm alongside cp has helped my skin a very slight bit but i can't hold on to cp much (max 3x in 2 wks before i need to take a long break) as cp notably thins my skin not by much but i can definitely notice it. It will bounce back though after a break but I'm trying to be really cautious about it. The changes aren't always constant though.
Emu oil did close to nothing aside from reduce the redness from my acne. Raw manuka honey did nothing but purge my skin.
I haven't been too constant with hyaluronic acids so I can't really say much but using terproline and also another egf serum w hyaluronic acid didn't help much either, cp has been better.
Ijust only found out about niacinamide(cerave pm)a few wks ago so I've been trying it out about a week and so far there hasn't been any changes. Due to the many great reviews given i intend to stick to it and probably add a few more similar products and see how it goes in the long run. I'll be willing to try it out for 5 months before i make a decision to continue or not.
When it comes to supplements, protein always does make my skin repair faster but too much of it breaks me out. Collagen pills break me out. I'll betrying hyaluronic pulls soon. Vitamin C intake in the form of lemon water has helped my acne and redness. Also i would say it made my skin look less dull.
Yes some days this condition gets to me especially when i first had it but now i try to stay positive as best as possible. There will be times for sure i feel like shit and regret what I've done to make my skin this way (peels and lasers) but i alwaystry to tell myself that only i notice it much as some of my friends have claimed it isn't that bad. Trying to have faith that there will be a solution down the line.
I have to warn you guys. Even though hardly anyone on this site has shown me support (except of course for my good friend broken porecelain <3 and comfy in her message and brittaback in my thread) I still can't keep quiet about this. Especially after talking to many skincare professionals including an educated, dermal repair expert. And after reading all of this confusing advice given by everyone...things have become overwhelming. I know the advice was given in a sincere manner and as a means to help, yet we are not understanding the consequences of it...so I have to speak up. This is not directed towards anyone in particular in a demeaning manner so don't take it that way. In fact, I'm even referring to advice I, myself have given in previous posts which I will edit out later.
Going through this will make you desperate and desperate people take any advice they can get and run with it. And I'm sorry, H4nzz, if giving my input has left you feeling defeated and/or hopeless, but it's my experience and I'm entitled to share it...besides that was not my intention. I was justtrying to help. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that we are each contributingour stories and are talking about what has helped us and what has in turn hindered us. But take ALL advice even mine with a grain of salt. And yes, my damage is obviously more than just large, open pores but my cheeks started out EXACTLY like H4nzz's. I took the wrong advice and in just 6 weeks my skin went from manageable to unrecognizable.
After talking to the dermal expert for 2 hours, I learned thatCopper peptides also damage collagen in some people especially when used after derma needling. Look it up....its true. So if you had a negative experience with Retin A or Duac or any other topical, and your barrier is damaged...than rebuilding it is your first line of defense. The acid mantle comes first and foremost then enzyme function comes second. And refraining from any type of exfoliation such as needling is important. I got a couple emails from people who needled their damaged skin (after reading people's recommendations online) and are now panicking thinking that they made things worse. I found out that my one post regarding exfoliation (in order to get rid of the orange peel texture) is only recommended for those with INTACT barriers. Also, using peptides (not CP's) like I was previously doing is excellent for barrier repair in those of us with minimal barrier damage.
Now judging from pictures, some of you look like you HAVE intact acid mantles and stratum corneums so that's why talking to an expert is so important. Ask yourself...Is your skin rough and dry from inflammation? Is it producing oils and sweating and functioning properly? Is it overly oily and smooth, yet porous? Is it flaking? My new routine was created specifically for me and my skin & health history. I just started it yesterday and will probably update my progress monthly. Getting a regimen that is in accordance to your specific skincare history and health history is crucial to healing.
There's so much more I found out in the past week I could keep writing for hours, but I don't have the time at the moment. One more thing I will say is keeping your routine VERY simple is pertinent! Adding in a bunch of topicals will further damage your skin. So if this really bothers you seek out an educated expert, do not waste time and money jumping from one routine to the next. Rinseyour face with cool water. If you have squalane products use them. Remember as long as your barrier is compromised any irrantants and/or pollutants/chemicals are able to penetrate it and wreak havoc. No two skins are the same as we all know so do your research. I hope a year from now this is a distant memory for all of us.
Thank you Yola4, i really get what you mean that we shouldn't rush to find a solution. I had a derm tell me lasers would make it better and i rushed to do it only to make it worse. Regarding dermarolling yes indeed i have read conflicting results thus why at the moment i stopped. Lucky for me i didn't really see any further damage. Thank you for the info about cp, i guess that might be the reason why i felt my skin thinned out a little.
And you are right about washing your face with just water, I've just started that routine as advised by alot of people with skin damage. I'll try to post a picture of my skin and update regarding my cerave pm routine. It's actually just cerave with emu oil but i intend to switch it out with jojoba oil as I've heard better results from that (provided it doesn't break me out)
And i hope for those of us with this condition we can continue to support each other. I for sure am glad to see the constant updates and hope to see improvement from you guys. Nobody should have to suffer through this. Thank you Yola4 once again for the in depth info, and to the rest of you as well. Stay strong guys!
Hey BlobbOrg,
I'm glad it was beneficial in some way. Its just some of the basics though, there's quite a few steps to get repair underway. I'll go deeper into it in the future, and hopefully as my skin heals and progresses. Fingers crossed! I just wanted to clarify though, I didn't mean to not use a cleanser I just meant to only rinse with cool water. In my case, a hydrating milk cleanser was necessary to soothe and calm my overly dry skin. But do what's right for you! Hope this helps!
On 9/1/2017 at 5:52 AM, H4nnz said:So far nothing's changed guys...
wow my skin really is fucked
So sorry there hasn't been improvement. I do still think you have nice looking skin despite the pores. It looks really firm and young. Just wondering, are those blackheads? Like you can squeeze things out of the pores? To me, it looks like you just have clogged pores, but lovely/regular skin regardless. I know you feel differently, but that's just how'd I'd see it if I met you I'm sure!
On 9/2/2017 at 1:36 PM, Yola4 said:After talking to the dermal expert for 2 hours, I learned that Copper peptides also damage collagen in some people especially when used after derma needling
Totally second this. If you've ever read stuff on EDS forums about the "CP uglies", they're similar to skin thinning issues. They say to keep going and "it gets worse before it gets better ", but I'm completely skeptical about that. That's what they say about retin a too... I've never used anything but vitamin c after rolling for collagen production. I'd also bump up to .5 if you're dealing with textural issues. .25 is mainly for product penetration 
38 minutes ago, ComfyCozy2 said:
Yea there's some controversy over copper peptides. I found more good things than bad, but then again I found the same w/Retin A too! I don't believe in the uglies either, or the theory that things get worse before they get better. I do believe in skin purging toxins though when a new regime is started, and possibly breaking out before it clears up.
If anyone is planning on needling make sure to use a pure hyaluronic serum while needling. And be careful with vitamin c serums or any other acidic products on open skin. Especially if you have sensitive skin it stings pretty badly and some people have reactions to it. If you read up on Dr. Des Fernandes needling information he talks about using non acidic products like Environ in conjunction with derma needling. And well he invented needling so I would definitely consider him the expert on it!
But again, proceed with caution in anything you do to your skin if your barrier is damaged...
I know how you feel, I would recommend you to look in to getting Accutane. To me the side effect that worried me the most was depression. The first time was a little hard because I was scared and young. I did decide to go back to Accutane two more times and depression or things like that did not affect me at all. I even got more confident when my skin was clear. It did get dry and things like that, but to me, those were little things that I was not going to let them get me. I focusedon school and working out. I was busy all day that Idid not have the time to be home feeling alone ( I liked it that way). It is different for every person, and I am a supporter of everyone. But If I ever need to go back I will. It has helped me a lot. I do not know anyone that has taken Accutanetreatments three times.
13 hours ago, Yola4 said:If anyone is planning on needling make sure to use a pure hyaluronic serum while needling. And be careful with vitamin c serums or any other acidic products on open skin. Especially if you have sensitive skin it stings pretty badly and some people have reactions to it. If you read up on Dr. Des Fernandes needling information he talks about using non acidic products like Environ in conjunction with derma needling. And well he invented needling so I would definitely consider him the expert on it!
But again, proceed with caution in anything you do to your skin if your barrier is damaged...
That's true! i use a lower percentage, and it's magnesium ascorbly phosphate instead of l-ascorbic, so it doesn't really burn. Also has HA in it. I've surprisingly not read much by Dr.Fernandes, although I've been meaning to