mangos21 said:

Hey guys, would you recommend using either of these two aveeno moisturizers?

ULTRA-CALMING DAILY MOISTURIZER WITH SPF 15

[Removed link]

POSITIVELY RADIANT DAILY MOISTURIZER WITH SPF 15

[Removed link]

For the Ultra Calming one, I looked up feverfew in the ingredient dictionary, and there it says it actually causes irritation.

The Aveeno Ultra-Calming Moisturizer with SPF 15, based on feverfew's ability to cause irritation, should not be used. In addition, the product lists benzyl alcohol, a drying type of alcohol, as the fourth ingredient.

The Aveeno Positively Radiant Daily Moisturizer with SPF 15 is just so-so. It, too, lists benzyl alcohol fairly high up on the ingredient list (the fifth ingredient), and the product contains more fragrance than soybean seed extract. Also, the product contains mica (which is commonly used to give makeup products a shiny look), so if you have oily skin you might not like this.

A concern I have with all the Aveeno moisturizers is the waxy thickeners they use (like arachidyl alcohol, their first ingredient in both moisturizers listed above), which can potentially clog pores. Even if you don't experience any increases in breakouts, the Aveeno moisturizers "balled up" on me, resembling flaky skin that didn't look good, especially under makeup.

If you're looking for a good moisturizer with SPF 15, try one from Dove.

Interesting Snow Queen. You sound very knowledgable regarding acne treatment.

 

I'm using egg white with drops of lemon as a face mask. I leave it on for 15-20 mins and then wash it off. The lemon drops I feel are too minimal to cause irritation.

 

I'm nearing 21, and some of my red marks are quite old. I looked into V-beam and I'm quite interesting in doing it, but since I just came off Accutane about 3 months ago, I'm planning to wait some more months before going ahead with it.

 

\

Apple cidar vinegar is also getting pretty popular in the red mark forum.

 

Small amounts of skin irritants can be tolerated in a formulation, but they're best avoided when possible. I'm glad you're not soaking your face in the lemon juice, which is what I first thought !

Why not try a weekly inexpensive clay mask such as Queen Helene's Mud Pack Masque, which will absorb excess oil and remove surface dead skin cells, to help freshen your complexion?

In my opinion V-Beam is well worth the cost (you can probably get it for between $150 and $300 per treatment), but I know not everyone gets satisfactory results from it. I've had two treatments so far and my skin hasn't looked this good in years! I actually felt comfortable going outside without makeup, something I've been afraid to do since I was twelve.

By the way, I think it's smart to wait at least six months after Accutane before undergoing V-Beam to be sure your acne doesn't come back. You may even want to wait longer, just to be safe.

Vinegar is mildly antibacterial and antifungal, but it too can cause irritation. However, as far as I know lemons are much more irritating to the skin. Just the same, I still say it's better to use a well-formulated AHA or BHA product (I'm guessing vinegar, like lemons, is also used as an exfoliant).

Thus far, I have not read anything to convince me that physical sunscreens should be recommended to acne sufferers over synthetic sunscreens (unless, of course, one is sensitive to a synthetic sunscreen, in which case he or she should use a physical sunscreen).

 

That's ok. Wasn't trying to convince you. Grilling over Thanks for the post anyway. It was an interesting read even though I didn't agree with everything!

this make-up is supposed to be amazing and it says it's ok for acne but just to be sure are these ingredients ok?

Sheer Cover [Removed link]

daria said:

this make-up is supposed to be amazing and it says it's ok for acne but just to be sure are these ingredients ok?

Sheer Cover [Removed link]

This is one of the makeups that contain titanium dioxide. Snow Queen and I have a discussion about this in the last couple of pages of this thread.

JBHK said:

daria said:

this make-up is supposed to be amazing and it says it's ok for acne but just to be sure are these ingredients ok?

Sheer Cover [Removed link]

This is one of the makeups that contain titanium dioxide. Snow Queen and I have a discussion about this in the last couple of pages of this thread.

The titanium dioxide in the foundation may be something to be concerned about; however, if you have used titanium dioxide- based sunscreens before with no problems you're probably OK.

The concealer doesn't seem to contain any ingredients that are likely to cause irritation. The only thing I'm concerned about with this concealer (and all cream/cream-powder/stick concealers) is the waxy thickeners used to give the product its consistancy, which can also clog pores.

I don't recommend the finishing powder because it uses cornstarch and rice starch, which are food for bacteria when wet, so if you're prone to inflammatory acne, this can make it worse. Also, some people have reported irritation from cornstarch. In addition, the powder contains some irritating plant extracts, though since the product is in powder form they're probably in minute amounts, posing a minimal risk of irritation. And lastly, the powder contains mica, an ingredient used to give makeup a shimmer, so if you have oily or combination skin, you might not like the added shine.

The cleanser looks OK. My only concern is the witch hazel water that it contains, but since it is listed in the middle, the ethanol content of the witch hazel water is minimal as well as the amount of tannin (a component of many plants, including witch hazel, that although is an antioxidant, also constricts the skin, causing irritation).

The SPF 15 moisturizer does not provide adequate UVA protection. Also, it contains waxy thickeners that could potentially clog pores.

Based on the product formulations, I'd say that Sheer Cover (although it claims otherwise) was designed for women not prone to breakouts over the age of thirty. That doesn't mean that you can't use the products; just that you should monitor any increases in breakouts two weeks after starting the use of this product (acne lesions can take two weeks to form). If you suffer from inflammatory acne, I wouldn't use the finishing powder at all, especially if you live somewhere humid and/or have an active lifestyle. Most drugstore talc-based powders will do fine as an alternative (talc is not bad for the skin; in fact, it is a mineral derivative as opposed to cornstarch or rice starch, which is why I find it odd that mineral makeup comanies exclude it from their formulations). The cleanser is probably OK to use, but I wouldn't rely on the moisturizer as a source of sun protection.

I'm using the obagi foaming gel which has sodium laureth sulfate,is that the same thing as sodium laurel sulfate? i have been using it for the past 6 months and really like it do you still advice me to stop it ?.Im using a cream moisturizer for a while and really like it I apply it to my whole face,I know for normal/ to oily skin they recommend lotion but i didnt get any the company i needed (kinerase) is it ok to continue if you feel its not doing any harm? i mean do many people break out due to using cream moisturizers ?

What's wrong with Witch hazel ? I use a toner with Witch hazel, which I think helps my skin not irritate it.

Ihsahn said:

I'm using the obagi foaming gel which has sodium laureth sulfate,is that the same thing as sodium laurel sulfate? i have been using it for the past 6 months and really like it do you still advice me to stop it ?.Im using a cream moisturizer for a while and really like it I apply it to my whole face,I know for normal/ to oily skin they recommend lotion but i didnt get any the company i needed (kinerase) is it ok to continue if you feel its not doing any harm? i mean do many people break out due to using cream moisturizers ?

Sodium laureth sulfate is not the same thing as sodium lauryl suflate, a harsh surfectant that is drying to the skin, and is perfectly fine to use. I can't recommend the cleanser you're using without seeing an ingredients list, but it's description indicates to me that it is probably OK.

Here's an article that discusses sodium laureth sulfate and sodium lauryl sulfate in more detail:

[Removed link]

If you've been using a cream moisturizer for some time and haven't experienced any increases in breakouts with that product, you're probably OK. However, I don't recommend moisturizing the entire face if your skin is not dry all over because not only can unnecessarily moisturizing increase the potential for clogged pores by mixing with the skin's excess sebum and holding dead skin cells to the skin's surface, but it can also interfere with the skin's healing process. You may find this article interesting:

[Removed link]

Even if you don't take the information provided in the article to heart, keep in mind that you'll save product and money by spot-moisturizing dry skin only.

the7 said:

What's wrong with Witch hazel ? I use a toner with Witch hazel, which I think helps my skin not irritate it.

hOneyy asked a similar question:

The_Snow_Queen said:

hOneyy said:

whats wrong with witch hazel? =O

Here's a quote from the Consumer's Dictionary of Cosmetic Ingredients, Fifth Edition:

"Witch hazel can have an ethanol [alcohol] content of 70 to 80 percent. Witch hazel water... contains 15% ethanol."

In addition, witch hazel contains a high level of tannin, an antioxidant which in that amount can be irritating when used repeatedly over a period of time.

Also, I'd like to point out that one doesn't always immediately notice visible skin damage from skin irritants, just like one doesn't always immedieately notice visible skin damage from UVA rays.

oook, so I guess that list of what "not to do" just leaves me with *dust* looks like i'll be using dust to clean my face.

Hey snow queen, can you recommend me some make up? I already followed your advice on acne products, but I can't seem to find a foundation/concealer that abide these guidelines.

thanks

Hey Snow Queen, I have another question I would like to ask you. I love and apperciate your advice. I have this tube from Avon. The product is called "ANEW Clinical Micro- exfoliant".And have read massive, massive great reviews on it. Apparently the BEST exfoliant. (Micro-Dermabrasion), and its milder, less-abrassive then regular micro dermabrassions out there. And I was wondering...would this benefit my skin?(red marks, rough texture, enlarged pores here and there). I can't find the ingredients anywhere! So..I don't know what to do. I know though, that one of its main purposes is for acne, acne scars, rough, dry flakey skin, evening out skin tone, texture as well as helps with clogged pores, sun damage. Sounds good to me. And from reviewers, and coloums I read..it does what it promises. Do you think I should use it?..I am scared, dunno if I should..But I DO need to exfoliate, as my skin is flaking some wat, and I want it to feel smooth.

Thanks.

oook, so I guess that list of what "not to do" just leaves me with *dust* looks like i'll be using dust to clean my face.

 

If you scroll down through the replies on the first page, you'll find some products I recommend. By the way, the products I do recommend are by no means the only good ones available (with the exception of the salicylic acid products, since most of those I don't mention are poorly formulated), they're just the products that I first thought of as being both reasonably priced and effective.

Verve89 said:

Hey snow queen, can you recommend me some make up? I already followed your advice on acne products, but I can't seem to find a foundation/concealer that abide these guidelines.

thanks

Luckily there are lots of inexpensive makeup products that can work for acne-prone skin I'll list some of the ones I've heard good things about.

Concealers:

Loreal AirWear Long-Wearing Concealer (couldn't find the ingredients list but it was recommended on [Removed link])

Loreal True Match Concealer (again, couldn't find the ingredients list but I'm pretty sure it doesn't contain any irritants or ingredients that are problematic for breakout-prone skin)

Maybelline Everfresh Concealer

Neutrogena Skin-Clearing Oil-Free Concealer (won't clear skin but apparantly is a decent concealer; this does contain a synthetic wax but doesn't seem to break out most people)

Mary Kay MK Signature Concealer(again, couldn't find the ingredients list but it was recommended on [Removed link] and has good reviews on at [Removed link])

Foundations:

Almay Clear Complexion Liquid Makeup (again, won't clear your complexion but is apparently a good product)

Loreal True Match Super-Blendable Makeup

Revlon Colorstay Stay Natural Makeup SPF 15

Powders:

Cover Girl TruBlend Pressed Powder (this does contain mica, but most people don't complain about it being too shiny)

Jane Translucent Loose Staying Powder (make sure you're getting the translucent/colorless one)

Rimmel Lasting Finish Pressed Powder

Sonia Kashuk Dual Coverage Powder Foundation (a sheer, powder foundation)

Blushes:

Jane Blushes (couldn't find ingredients list but [Removed link] gives them good reviews)

Loreal True Match Super-Blendable Blush

Hey Snow Queen, I have another question I would like to ask you. I love and apperciate your advice. I have this tube from Avon. The product is called "ANEW Clinical Micro- exfoliant".And have read massive, massive great reviews on it. Apparently the BEST exfoliant. (Micro-Dermabrasion), and its milder, less-abrassive then regular micro dermabrassions out there. And I was wondering...would this benefit my skin?(red marks, rough texture, enlarged pores here and there). I can't find the ingredients anywhere! So..I don't know what to do. I know though, that one of its main purposes is for acne, acne scars, rough, dry flakey skin, evening out skin tone, texture as well as helps with clogged pores, sun damage. Sounds good to me. And from reviewers, and coloums I read..it does what it promises. Do you think I should use it?..I am scared, dunno if I should..But I DO need to exfoliate, as my skin is flaking some wat, and I want it to feel smooth.

 

Thanks.

 

I think that everyone who can exfoliate should to promote the appearance of healthy skin, and although I prefer chemical exfoliants, especially salicylic acid, manual exfoliants like microdermabrasion products are options too.

Microdermabrasion can help improve red marks, rough skin texture, and the appearance of large pores. From what I've read it can also help with acne scarring (which isn't the same thing as a red mark; if you have real acne scarring, which often looks like strange indentations in the skin, check out the acne scar forum for more info on treatment options). However, you shouldn't expect the same results obtained from dermatologist-performed microdermabrasion treatments when using over-the-counter microdermabrasion products, though store kits can make a noticeable improvement.

I went to the Avon website concerning the product you mentioned, but it wouldn't let me read the ingredients. My advise to you is to e-mail Avon asking for an ingredients list. Although a little more expensive (go to Wal Mart), I personally recommend the Neutrogena Advanced Solutions At-Home Microdermabrasion Kit, which is in my opinion the best at-home microdermabrasion system I've seen (keep in mind I haven't read up on the Avon version).

EDIT: I forgot to mention that microdermabrasion shouldn't be used over inflammatory acne. Otherwise, you risk damaging the skin surrounding the clog and making the problem worse. You can, however, use it over non-inflammatory acne, including blackheads. In fact, microdermabrasion can be very helpful for getting rid of blackheads that can't be gotten rid of with other treatments.

all these things don't apply to everyone. everything i use you say is bad, but my skin is and always has been clear.

 

 

They do apply to everyone; some people just don't have the same visible bad reactions that other people do. If your skin is and always has been clear, why are you on this board?

 

oooo burn sizzle hiz

what's your take on bare minerals make-up?

This is probably the best, most informative thread on acne.org.

daria7 said:

what's your take on bare minerals make-up?

I think that Bare Minerals is great, for some people. My main concern with it is that it contains bismuth oxychloride, which some people have reported irritation from. However, Paula Begoun didn't list it as a skin irritant in her online ingredients dictionary, so I'm wondering if that ingredient is like lanolin and latex in that some people, but not everyone, are allergic to it.

Another concern I have with the makeup is the talc-free finishing powder, which likely contains corn and/or rice ingredients as an alternative to talc (I couldn't find ingredients lists, though I'm sure they're out there, so I'm making my assumptions based on almost all "talc-free" powders). These types of food ingredients are bad for those prone to inflammatory acne because as you may have guessed, they're food for bacteria when wet. In addition, some people experience irritation from cornstarch. As an alternative use a talc-based powder, which there is nothing wrong with as I'll explain later.

Personally, I wouldn't use Bare Minerals because when I tested it at Sephora it was much too shiny for my tastes (in general I only like my eyeshadows and lipglosses to have any shimmer because although my skin isn't really oil, I don't need to add any more shine with my foundations, powders, and blushes). Also, some people find that it is too sheer. From what I've read in the Makeup Forum, many people prefer Everyday Minerals, which apparently offers matte formulations and doesn't contain bismuth oxychloride(?), to Bare Minerals.

Also, mineral makeup tends to look awful over dry/flaky skin, so be sure to exfoliate and moisturize as needed prior to applying.

As with trying any new makeup, monitor your skin for any increases in breakouts two weeks after starting the use of Bare Minerals.

One thing I really don't like about this whole mineral makeup phenomenon is the amount of incorrect information the mineral makeup companies are shoving on consumers. Synthetic ingredients aren't always bad for the skin, just like naturally-derived ingredients aren't always good for the skin. Just because one can't pronounce the name of an ingredient doesn't make that ingredient bad. In that respect, many liquid makeups are not bad for the skin.

Also, although mineral makeups usually only contain naturally-derived ingredients, the process of these ingredients coming together to form mineral makeup that can be used by the consumer sure isn't natural.

Concerning the exclusion of talc, I really don't understand why mineral makeup companies do this, especially since the supposedly harmful talc used in makeup is actually a mineral derivative!

[Removed link]

And lastly, Bare Esentual's claims that Bare Minerals actually heals the skin cracks me up. According to Sephora, zinc oxide is the miracle ingredient. The independent clinical study that supposedly backs this doesn't mean anything to me because I don't know anything about how those results were obtained, what products the women tested were using before, etc.... I think the results of that study were based on wishful thinking, or, if there was an improvement, the women experienced a change in lifestyle/hormones or discontinued using products that contain skin irritants. If zinc oxide really did heal their skin, than guess what? Liquid makeups can contain zinc oxide too!

hii~ thanks for posting this--it's very helpful. I've been using a mineral mask that I found to have bentonite in it and citris acid....so I guess I should stop using it.

I've been using this beta hydroxy cream for exfoliation from olay (though it doesn't say the %) and I was wondering if it's better to just switch to the liquid by paula?

Also, I just got off of tretinoin cream after using it for 3 months (it didn't do anything...I felt like it just got worse) and started just using the proactive cream on my face again (used it before and it stopped working after a while). I've read about the damaging effects of benzoyl peroxide though and how it is linked to premature aging and all...so I've been doing some research and trying to find a new regimen that doesn't use harsh chemicals and consists of more natural products...

I've read about using jojoba oil with neem oil? How is that?

Plus I've considered buying some of the products you've suggested...do you have any masks you could suggest? Oh! And is using sacylic acid with bp a bad idea?

sasha fe said:

hii~ thanks for posting this--it's very helpful. I've been using a mineral mask that I found to have bentonite in it and citris acid....so I guess I should stop using it.

I've been using this beta hydroxy cream for exfoliation from olay (though it doesn't say the %) and I was wondering if it's better to just switch to the liquid by paula?

Also, I just got off of tretinoin cream after using it for 3 months (it didn't do anything...I felt like it just got worse) and started just using the proactive cream on my face again (used it before and it stopped working after a while). I've read about the damaging effects of benzoyl peroxide though and how it is linked to premature aging and all...so I've been doing some research and trying to find a new regimen that doesn't use harsh chemicals and consists of more natural products...

I've read about using jojoba oil with neem oil? How is that?

Plus I've considered buying some of the products you've suggested...do you have any masks you could suggest? Oh! And is using sacylic acid with bp a bad idea?

I'm not sure which Olay product your using, but unless it's the Total Effects Anti-Aging Anti-Blemish Daily Moisturizer I doubt it will have any real effect on your acne (the Olay product I recommended says that it contains 1.5% salicylic acid, so unless you missed that by chance you're probably not using it). Instead of exfoliating, the salicylic acid will act as a water-binding agent.

Personally I feel that the Paula's Choice 2% Beta Hydroxy Acid Liquid is the best on the market due to its excellent formulation. The Olay version, though it will effectively exfoliate, also contains ingredients that can potentially clog pores, but some people may prefer it because they might find it to be gentler and/or favor its texture. However, the Paula's Choice product has a lower pH and also a higher concentration of salicylic acid, making it overall more effective for exfoliation than the Olay.

Concerning whether or not benzoyl peroxide causes premature aging, I couldn't find any real evidence (by that I mean actual studies) that suggested anything of the sort. I did find lots of sites which said benzoyl peroxide did in fact cause premature aging, but most of these sites were selling something, and none of them listed any valid sources supporting their conclusions. If you have any studies regarding this issue, feel free to post them here. Otherwise I think that this concern is mainly a scare tactic used to get consumers to buy "natural" or benzoyl peroxide- free products. What most indefinately causes premature aging is unprotected sun exposure, and benzoyl peroxide does increase one's sensitivity to the sun. Given that many benzoyl peroxide users don't wear sunscreen at all, don't wear on with an SPF 15 or higher, don't properly apply it, or don't wear one with adequate UVA protection, I can make an educated guess as to where people might have gotten the idea that benzoyl peroxide causes premature aging.

One more thing: The p.acnes bacteria, which is anaerobic, doesn't become immune to benzoyl peroxide, which works by producing oxyen in the pore and thus killing the bacteria. The reason why your Proactive product was no longer effective in controlling your acne could have been caused by a change in hormones, a change in diet, or even a change in your tap water.

Jojoba oil is just an emollient plant oil. Here's a quote about neem oil from Paula Begoun's ingredient dictionary:

"Neem Extract or Oil. From leaves of the neem tree; it has potential toxic effects, although it has also been shown to have antimicrobial properties (Sources: Life Sciences, January 2001, pages 11531160; Journal of Ethnopharmacology, August 2000, pages 377382; Phytotherapy Research, February 1999, pages 8183; and Mutation Research, June 1998, pages 247258)."

Also, as far as I know there is no research regarding neem oil's effectiveness for treating acne in particular, but even if there were I wouldn't use it due to its "potential toxic effects". Tea tree oil, on the other hand, does have a little research indicating that it may possibly be effective in treating acne. I advise purchasing pure tea tree oil and diluting it with a moisturizer (try and have around a 10% concentration of tea tree oil in the mixture). However, if benzoyl peroxide works for you as a disinfectant, I don't see any reason to discontinue using it.

I personally recommend using benzoyl peroxide and salicylic acid together, though you will hear different opinions about this. The argument against using the two treatments together is that they are too irritating to the skin when used in conjunction with one another; however, I feel that these opinions were based on the use of alcohol-based salicylic acid products, which most of them are, with benzoyl peroxide. When gentle and pH-correct salicylic acid products are used in conjunction with gentle and effective benzoyl peroxide products, it is beneficial (and salicylic acid acts as an anti-irritant, which may actually decrease the risk of irritation).

Also, here are quotes from Paula Begoun's Ingredient Dictionary about salicylic acid and benzoyl peroxide:

"Salicylic Acid. Referred to as beta hydroxy acid (BHA), it is a multifunctional ingredient that addresses many of the systemic causes of blemishes (Source: Seminars in Dermatology, December 1990, pages 305308). For decades dermatologists have been prescribing salicylic acid as an exceedingly effective keratolytic (exfoliant), but it also is an anti-irritant This is because salicylic acid is a derivative of aspirin (both are salicylates aspirin technical name is acetyl salicylic acid), and so it also functions as an anti-inflammatory. (Sources: Archives of Internal Medicine, July 2002, pages 15311532; Annals of Dermatology and Venereology, January 2002, pages 137142; Archives of Dermatology, November 2000, pages 13901395; and Pain, January 1996, pages 7182). Another notable aspect of salicylic acid for treating breakouts is that it has antimicrobial properties (Source: Preservatives for Cosmetics, 1996, by David Steinberg, Allured Publishing; and Health Canada Monograph Category IV, Antiseptic Cleansers, at [Removed link]). It is also well documented that it can improve skin thickness, barrier functions, and collagen production (Sources: Dermatology, 1999, volume 199, number 1, pages 5053; and Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology, Volume 175, Issue 1, pages 7682). As an exfoliant, in concentrations of 8% to 12%, it is effective in wart-remover medications. In concentrations of 0.5% to 2%, it is far more gentle, and, much like AHAs (See AHAs), can exfoliate the surface of skin. In addition, BHA has the ability to penetrate into the pore (AHAs do not), and thus can exfoliate inside the pore as well on the surface of the skin; that makes it effective for reducing blemishes, including blackheads and whiteheads. "

"Benzoyl Peroxide. Considered the most effective over-the-counter choice for a topical antibacterial agent in the treatment of blemishes (Source: Skin Pharmacology and Applied Skin Physiology, September-October 2000, pages 292296). The amount of research demonstrating the effectiveness of benzoyl peroxide is exhaustive and conclusive (Source: Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology, November 1999, pages 710716). Among benzoyl peroxide's attributes is its ability to penetrate into the hair follicle to reach the bacteria that are causing the problem, and then killing them with a low risk of irritation. It also doesn't pose the problem of bacterial resistance that some prescription topical antibacterials (antibiotics) do (Source: Dermatology, 1998, volume 196, issue 1, pages 119125). Benzoyl peroxide solutions range in strength from 2.5% to 10%. It is best to start with less-potent concentrations, because a 2.5% benzoyl peroxide product is much less irritating than a 5% or 10% concentration, and it can be just as effective. The necessary concentration completely depends on how stubborn the strain of bacteria in your pores happens to be.

From reading the above ingredient definitions, you can see how benzoyl peroxide and salicylic acid can be beneficial to each other.

Here's an article you might find interesting about how to treat acne and build an effective regimen:

[Removed link]

And lastly, an inexpensive clay mask like Queen Helene's Mud Pack Masque will temporarily remove dead skin cells and oil from the skin's surface. For daily oil control try wearing a thin layer of Phillip's Milk of Magnesia, original, which you can find at the drugstore (this sounds weird, but Milk of Magnesia is occasionally used in cosmetics too). Magnesium hydroxide , the active ingredient in Milk of Magnesia, serves as an absorbent and disinfectant when applied topically.

EDIT: I just realized I forgot to answer the first part of your question. Bentonite is in many clay masks and can be too irritating for sensitive skin types or when in a product that contains an "active ingredient" like sulphur or benzoyl peroxide, but for occasional use it's fine. Citric acid is a derivative of citrus fruits and is used as a preservative and pH balancer. In the small amounts used in cosmetics it's fine.

The_Snow_Queen said:

sasha fe said:

hii~ thanks for posting this--it's very helpful. I've been using a mineral mask that I found to have bentonite in it and citris acid....so I guess I should stop using it.

I've been using this beta hydroxy cream for exfoliation from olay (though it doesn't say the %) and I was wondering if it's better to just switch to the liquid by paula?

Also, I just got off of tretinoin cream after using it for 3 months (it didn't do anything...I felt like it just got worse) and started just using the proactive cream on my face again (used it before and it stopped working after a while). I've read about the damaging effects of benzoyl peroxide though and how it is linked to premature aging and all...so I've been doing some research and trying to find a new regimen that doesn't use harsh chemicals and consists of more natural products...

I've read about using jojoba oil with neem oil? How is that?

Plus I've considered buying some of the products you've suggested...do you have any masks you could suggest? Oh! And is using sacylic acid with bp a bad idea?

I'm not sure which Olay product your using, but unless it's the Total Effects Anti-Aging Anti-Blemish Daily Moisturizer I doubt it will have any real effect on your acne (the Olay product I recommended says that it contains 1.5% salicylic acid, so unless you missed that by chance you're probably not using it). Instead of exfoliating, the salicylic acid will act as a water-binding agent.

Personally I feel that the Paula's Choice 2% Beta Hydroxy Acid Liquid is the best on the market due to its excellent formulation. The Olay version, though it will effectively exfoliate, also contains ingredients that can potentially clog pores, but some people may prefer it because they might find it to be gentler and/or favor its texture. However, the Paula's Choice product has a lower pH and also a higher concentration of salicylic acid, making it overall more effective for exfoliation than the Olay.

Concerning whether or not benzoyl peroxide causes premature aging, I couldn't find any real evidence (by that I mean actual studies) that suggested anything of the sort. I did find lots of sites which said benzoyl peroxide did in fact cause premature aging, but most of these sites were selling something, and none of them listed any valid sources supporting their conclusions. If you have any studies regarding this issue, feel free to post them here. Otherwise I think that this concern is mainly a scare tactic used to get consumers to buy "natural" or benzoyl peroxide- free products. What most indefinately causes premature aging is unprotected sun exposure, and benzoyl peroxide does increase one's sensitivity to the sun. Given that many benzoyl peroxide users don't wear sunscreen at all, don't wear on with an SPF 15 or higher, don't properly apply it, or don't wear one with adequate UVA protection, I can make an educated guess as to where people might have gotten the idea that benzoyl peroxide causes premature aging.

One more thing: The p.acnes bacteria, which is anaerobic, doesn't become immune to benzoyl peroxide, which works by producing oxyen in the pore and thus killing the bacteria. The reason why your Proactive product was no longer effective in controlling your acne could have been caused by a change in hormones, a change in diet, or even a change in your tap water.

Jojoba oil is just an emollient plant oil. Here's a quote about neem oil from Paula Begoun's ingredient dictionary:

"Neem Extract or Oil. From leaves of the neem tree; it has potential toxic effects, although it has also been shown to have antimicrobial properties (Sources: Life Sciences, January 2001, pages 11531160; Journal of Ethnopharmacology, August 2000, pages 377382; Phytotherapy Research, February 1999, pages 8183; and Mutation Research, June 1998, pages 247258)."

Also, as far as I know there is no research regarding neem oil's effectiveness for treating acne in particular, but even if there were I wouldn't use it due to its "potential toxic effects". Tea tree oil, on the other hand, does have a little research indicating that it may possibly be effective in treating acne. I advise purchasing pure tea tree oil and diluting it with a moisturizer (try and have around a 10% concentration of tea tree oil in the mixture). However, if benzoyl peroxide works for you as a disinfectant, I don't see any reason to discontinue using it.

I personally recommend using benzoyl peroxide and salicylic acid together, though you will hear different opinions about this. The argument against using the two treatments together is that they are too irritating to the skin when used in conjunction with one another; however, I feel that these opinions were based on the use of alcohol-based salicylic acid products, which most of them are, with benzoyl peroxide. When gentle and pH-correct salicylic acid products are used in conjunction with gentle and effective benzoyl peroxide products, it is beneficial (and salicylic acid acts as an anti-irritant, which may actually decrease the risk of irritation).

Also, here are quotes from Paula Begoun's Ingredient Dictionary about salicylic acid and benzoyl peroxide:

"Salicylic Acid. Referred to as beta hydroxy acid (BHA), it is a multifunctional ingredient that addresses many of the systemic causes of blemishes (Source: Seminars in Dermatology, December 1990, pages 305308). For decades dermatologists have been prescribing salicylic acid as an exceedingly effective keratolytic (exfoliant), but it also is an anti-irritant This is because salicylic acid is a derivative of aspirin (both are salicylates aspirintechnical name is acetyl salicylic acid), and so it also functions as an anti-inflammatory. (Sources: Archives of Internal Medicine, July 2002, pages 15311532; Annals of Dermatology and Venereology, January 2002, pages 137142; Archives of Dermatology, November 2000, pages 13901395; and Pain, January 1996, pages 7182). Another notable aspect of salicylic acid for treating breakouts is that it has antimicrobial properties (Source: Preservatives for Cosmetics, 1996, by David Steinberg, Allured Publishing; and Health Canada Monograph Category IV, Antiseptic Cleansers, at [Removed link]). It is also well documented that it can improve skin thickness, barrier functions, and collagen production (Sources: Dermatology, 1999, volume 199, number 1, pages 5053; and Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology, Volume 175, Issue 1, pages 7682). As an exfoliant, in concentrations of 8% to 12%, it is effective in wart-remover medications. In concentrations of 0.5% to 2%, it is far more gentle, and, much like AHAs (See AHAs), can exfoliate the surface of skin. In addition, BHA has the ability to penetrate into the pore (AHAs do not), and thus can exfoliate inside the pore as well on the surface of the skin; that makes it effective for reducing blemishes, including blackheads and whiteheads. "

"Benzoyl Peroxide. Considered the most effective over-the-counter choice for a topical antibacterial agent in the treatment of blemishes (Source: Skin Pharmacology and Applied Skin Physiology, September-October 2000, pages 292296). The amount of research demonstrating the effectiveness of benzoyl peroxide is exhaustive and conclusive (Source: Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology, November 1999, pages 710716). Among benzoyl peroxide's attributes is its ability to penetrate into the hair follicle to reach the bacteria that are causing the problem, and then killing them with a low risk of irritation. It also doesn't pose the problem of bacterial resistance that some prescription topical antibacterials (antibiotics) do (Source: Dermatology, 1998, volume 196, issue 1, pages 119125). Benzoyl peroxide solutions range in strength from 2.5% to 10%. It is best to start with less-potent concentrations, because a 2.5% benzoyl peroxide product is much less irritating than a 5% or 10% concentration, and it can be just as effective. The necessary concentration completely depends on how stubborn the strain of bacteria in your pores happens to be.

From reading the above ingredient definitions, you can see how benzoyl peroxide and salicylic acid can be beneficial to each other.

Here's an article you might find interesting about how to treat acne and build an effective regimen:

[Removed link]

And lastly, an inexpensive clay mask like Queen Helene's Mud Pack Masque will temporarily remove dead skin cells and oil from the skin's surface. For daily oil control try wearing a thin layer of Phillip's Milk of Magnesia, original, which you can find at the drugstore (this sounds weird, but Milk of Magnesia is occasionally used in cosmetics too). Magnesium hydroxide , the active ingredient in Milk of Magnesia, serves as an absorbent and disinfectant when applied topically.

EDIT: I just realized I forgot to answer the first part of your question. Bentonite is in many clay masks and can be too irritating for sensitive skin types or when in a product that contains an "active ingredient" like sulphur or benzoyl peroxide, but for occasional use it's fine. Citric acid is a derivative of citrus fruits and is used as a preservative and pH balancer. In the small amounts used in cosmetics it's fine.

wow.. You're seem to be the most informed on this board and waaayyyy more helpful than my dermatologist...Thanks a ton for responding to my questions~ I'm very grateful ^^

wow.. You're seem to be the most informed on this board and waaayyyy more helpful than my dermatologist...Thanks a ton for responding to my questions~ I'm very grateful ^^

 

Thanks for the compliments; also look for posts from members like Labgirl81 and Grow to Overthrow, who are knowledgeable about acne and skin care as well.

I understand how hard it is to find any useful information about acne because I was stumbling around in the dark too up until half a year ago. The problem is that acne really isn't a priority in the medical community because it's not considered life-threatening and many people grow out of it. As a result much of the information about acne that some dermatologists know is outdated and sometimes outright wrong. (Why else would they recommend harsh cleansers like Neutrogena's Oil-Free Acne Wash?) Anyway, I'm glad this helped and I hope your skin improves.

hi snow queen,

i have read paula begouns beauty bible and her dont go to the cosmetics counter without me book so im pretty well informed about skin care. i must say that you really do know your stuff. and i think its great the way you care enough about others to share your knowledge with them. even though some are ungrateful and made some rude comments- im sure you have helped a lot of people. bravo . i have extremely sensitve skin and i have had vey bad reactions to even some of the products that you use. so im about to jump on the do nothing except cleanse bandwagon. i just dont know what else to do or what else to try. ive spent hundreds of dollars on products that dont work for me and just make worse.been to the derm, ive done accutane,antibiotics,retin-a you name it ive tried it. so im just giving up. i have been using eucerin redness relief cleanser for a couple months now and i absolutely love this stuff. i have very oily skin and im glad that i found a cleanser that doesnt leave me so dry that i have to use moisturizer(which breaks me out and makes me look greasy) before applying my make up. i also cannot using any type of scrubs even the baking soda which is what paula begoun recommends. so i do want to advise a product to others like me who cant use abrasive scubs. its called st.ives apple peel off masque. i love this. theres no scrubbing involved all you do is peel it off and once you do u can see the difference immediately- it even helps with dark spots and uneven skin tone. and it doesnt break me out (and everything seems to break me out). these are the only two products im using right now. i will see how it goes.

Hey There Snow_Queen you are very kind 2 share ure knowledge with ppl THANKYOU!!!! you say that the Paula's Choice brand is the best and i thought it wub b 2 so i brought the skin

"balencing cleanser (normal to oily combo skin)" ,

"skin balencing toner (normal to oily combo skin)" ,

"2% BHA" ,

"2.5% BP blemish fighting soloution" ,

"essential non-greasy sunscreen spf15 (normal to oily combo skin)" and the

"skin balencing moisture gel (normal to oily combo skin)"

I was supa gental with my skin and treated it lyk tissue paper. i have mild to moderate acne with an oily complexion and ive been using the Paula's Choice products 4 about 2 months and it hasnt done a thing for me ima supa sad! im just lost as 2 what to do now??? iv just started taking the b5 technique cuz im out of ideas. why do u thing the Paula's Choice products didnt work 4 me??

Thankyou again for helping so many ppl with ure knowledge!!!!