Acne.org Products
Hi, I have a problem with two of Paula's choice products and i was thinking someone here might know the solution.
Right after I apply BHA 2% Gel, I apply the blemish fighting solution. They both have a gel texture. I'm probably not using them correctly, but they don't seem to absorb well and I'm getting this sticky white cream on my face. I just want the products to sink in.
I love gels but these end up creamy. I don't know if it's the mixture of both gels that makes this reaction or if I am not waiting enough time to let one absorb before applying the second product.
Have you had this problem with these products or similar ones? Any suggestions?
There's a lot of Biore products. Which one do you mean?
I didn't see any Totally Juicy Lemon Scrub on drugstore.com, walgreens.com, or cvs.com, but the Totally Juicy Scrubs I did see either contained walnut particles (which are too abrasive) and/or irritating plant extracts.
sandia said:Hi, I have a problem with two of Paula's choice products and i was thinking someone here might know the solution.
Right after I apply BHA 2% Gel, I apply the blemish fighting solution. They both have a gel texture. I'm probably not using them correctly, but they don't seem to absorb well and I'm getting this sticky white cream on my face. I just want the products to sink in.
I love gels but these end up creamy. I don't know if it's the mixture of both gels that makes this reaction or if I am not waiting enough time to let one absorb before applying the second product.
Have you had this problem with these products or similar ones? Any suggestions?
I've never used the 2% BHA Gel; I mainly use the 2% BHA Liquid on my face, so I don't have that problem. My advise to you is to wait five or ten minutes for the BHA Gel to absorb (during which you could do some other step in your getting-ready process that you would normally do before or after, like your hair, so you don't waste time), then apply the Benzoyl peroxide.
JBHK said:The_Snow_Queen said:I disagree with some ingredients that website considers good or bad. Also, I have no way of knowing where the infomation comes from.
Why? Where does your information come from?
This is my answer to a similar question:
The_Snow_Queen said:crazylikeafox said:Hey Snow_Queen, where do you get all this information from?
A lot of the information (especially that regarding skin irritants and chemical exfoliants) is from Paula Begoun, a cometics researcher who gleans her knowledge from sources like Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Molecular Cell Biology Research Communications, European Journal of Neuroscience, Journal of the European Academy of Dermatology and Venereology, American Journal of Clinical Dermatology, Journal of Cell Physiology, British Journal of Dermatology, you get the idea...
Much of the information I've written about here can be found on Paula Begoun's website, [Removed link]
I also research certain things myself that I can find on the internet, as you can see by the links I posted in some of the responses.
Um... I went the Warming Blackhead one. I'm going to check for the ingredients right now.
Active Ingredients: Salicylic Acid 2% (Acne Treatment)
Inactive Ingredients: Sodium Silicoaluminate, PEG-8, Butylene Glycol, Talc, Ethoxydiglycol, Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate, Cetearyl Alcohol, Ceteth 20 Phosphate, Dicetyl Phosphate, Cetyl Dimethicone, Hydroxypropylcellulose, Fragrance, Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose, BHT
Um... I went the Warming Blackhead one. I'm going to check for the ingredients right now.
Active Ingredients: Salicylic Acid 2% (Acne Treatment)
Inactive Ingredients: Sodium Silicoaluminate, PEG-8, Butylene Glycol, Talc, Ethoxydiglycol, Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate, Cetearyl Alcohol, Ceteth 20 Phosphate, Dicetyl Phosphate, Cetyl Dimethicone, Hydroxypropylcellulose, Fragrance, Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose, BHT
That looks fine, but the salicylic acid won't do much, if anything (see first post).
JBHK said:OK - I took a look at the website but didn't find it particularly easy to navigate through. Out of interest why do you say that titanium dioxide is potentially comedogenic?
Titanium dioxide (and zinc oxide) are potentially problematic for breakouts beacuase of their occlusive natures, as can be read below (search the document for "occlusive" or "acne"):
[Removed link]
Also, the sections of the Paula's Choice website that I use the most are the "Ingredients Dictionary" and the "Skin Care Facts" page, which are found under "Learn." I also have her book, The Beauty Bible, but much of the information that is found in the book is summarized on her website. If you're looking for something in particular, try the site's search engine.
The_Snow_Queen said:JBHK said:OK - I took a look at the website but didn't find it particularly easy to navigate through. Out of interest why do you say that titanium dioxide is potentially comedogenic?
Titanium dioxide (and zinc oxide) are potentially problematic for breakouts beacuase of their occlusive natures, as can be read below (search the document for "occlusive" or "acne"):
[Removed link]
Also, the sections of the Paula's Choice website that I use the most are the "Ingredients Dictionary" and the "Skin Care Facts" page, which are found under "Learn." I also have her book, The Beauty Bible, but much of the information that is found in the book is summarized on her website. If you're looking for something in particular, try the site's search engine.
I looked at the Ingredients Dictionary before my previous post, but it said nothing about Titanium Dioxide being problematic for acne. I have also looked at the report you recommended. That states that:
"The reported incidence of side effects from sunscreen use is less than 1 to 2%. All sunscreen agents have been reported to cause allergic reactions but the frequency of such reactions is low. Irritation due to the vehicle rather than the sunscreens active ingredient seems to be the frequent cause of adverse effects."
The reason I picked up on the Titanium Dioxide thing is because I believe you described it as comedogenic. This is an ingredient that frequently appears in mineral cosmetics which are generally touted as being non-aggravating to acne. In addition, Titanium Dioxide is referred to as a very safe ingredient in the zerozits.com website. I was just curious as to how, therefore, you reached this conclusion. My personal experience is that I have not had any problems with mineral make up and prefer them to liquid foundations. Having looked at the report or ingredient directory you refer to, there is nothing in there that would lead me to conclude that the info on zerozits is incorrect, at least in this regard.
Many of the ingredients listed in the OP as "skin irritants" can actually be very helpful depending on how they're used. For example, natural grain alcohol helps your skin to retain moisture. However, many of the alcohols listed on common products are irritating and unsuitable. Not all alcohols are bad.
JBHK said:The_Snow_Queen said:JBHK said:OK - I took a look at the website but didn't find it particularly easy to navigate through. Out of interest why do you say that titanium dioxide is potentially comedogenic?
Titanium dioxide (and zinc oxide) are potentially problematic for breakouts beacuase of their occlusive natures, as can be read below (search the document for "occlusive" or "acne"):
[Removed link]
Also, the sections of the Paula's Choice website that I use the most are the "Ingredients Dictionary" and the "Skin Care Facts" page, which are found under "Learn." I also have her book, The Beauty Bible, but much of the information that is found in the book is summarized on her website. If you're looking for something in particular, try the site's search engine.
I looked at the Ingredients Dictionary before my previous post, but it said nothing about Titanium Dioxide being problematic for acne. I have also looked at the report you recommended. That states that:
"The reported incidence of side effects from sunscreen use is less than 1 to 2%. All sunscreen agents have been reported to cause allergic reactions but the frequency of such reactions is low. Irritation due to the vehicle rather than the sunscreens active ingredient seems to be the frequent cause of adverse effects."
The reason I picked up on the Titanium Dioxide thing is because I believe you described it as comedogenic. This is an ingredient that frequently appears in mineral cosmetics which are generally touted as being non-aggravating to acne. In addition, Titanium Dioxide is referred to as a very safe ingredient in the zerozits.com website. I was just curious as to how, therefore, you reached this conclusion. My personal experience is that I have not had any problems with mineral make up and prefer them to liquid foundations. Having looked at the report or ingredient directory you refer to, there is nothing in there that would lead me to conclude that the info on zerozits is incorrect, at least in this regard.
Here's a quote from the link I provided, which supports that titanium dioxide and zinc oxide can clog pores:
"Acne, folliculitis, or skin rash may occur with physical sunscreen agents
because of their occlusive property."
Here's a quote from the Paula's Choice website (under "Sun Essentials") that supports that titanium dioxide and zinc oxide can clog pores:
"The sunscreen ingredients themselves can also cause either an irritated breakout reaction or titanium dioxide and zinc oxide can clog pores. "
I don't know why all that was so hard for you to find; sorry you missed it.
As a sidenote, just because an ingredient can clog pores doesn't mean it will for you personally. Some acne sufferers have better luck using physical sunscreens because their skin is sensitive to avobenzone (irritation can also cause breakouts). However, all of this I have mentioned before.
jamesw said:Many of the ingredients listed in the OP as "skin irritants" can actually be very helpful depending on how they're used. For example, natural grain alcohol helps your skin to retain moisture. However, many of the alcohols listed on common products are irritating and unsuitable. Not all alcohols are bad.
Here's a quote from the [Removed link] ingredients dictionary:
"alcohol. A group of organic compounds that have a vast range of forms and uses in cosmetics. In some benign forms they are glycols used as humectants that help deliver ingredients into skin. When fats and oils (See fatty acid) are chemically reduced, they become a group of less-dense alcohols called fatty alcohols that can have emollient properties or can become detergent cleansing agents. When alcohols have low molecular weights they can be drying and irritating. The alcohols to be concerned about in skin-care products are ethanol, denatured alcohol, ethyl alcohol, methanol, benzyl alcohol, isopropyl, and SD alcohol, which can be extremely drying and irritating to skin (Sources: "Skin Care From the Inside Out and Outside In," Tufts Daily, April 1, 2002; eMedicine Journal, May 8, 2002, volume 3, number 5, www.emedicine.com; Cutis, February 2001, pages 25,27; and Contact Dermatitis, January 1996, pages 1216). When these ingredients are at the top of an ingredient list it is problematic for all skin types, when they are at the end of an ingredient list there isnt enough concentration present to be considered a problem for skin."
As I have already mentioned, yes, fatty alcohols are not bad for the skin. However, grain alcohol (a.k.a. ethanol and ethyl alcohol) is irritating and drying to the skin, as is explained in the quote above.
what product (make-up) do you recommend to cover up redness and breakouts (w/ clogging pores)? like from physicians formula or shiseido?
what product (make-up) do you recommend to cover up redness and breakouts (w/ clogging pores)? like from physicians formula or shiseido?
daria said:what product (make-up) do you recommend to cover up redness and breakouts (w/ clogging pores)? like from physicians formula or shiseido?
what product (make-up) do you recommend to cover up redness and breakouts (w/ clogging pores)? like from physicians formula or shiseido?
The only way to know whether or not a product will clog pores is to try it out for a few weeks; usually a cream or stick concealer is more likely to clog pores due to the waxy ingredients used. There are a lot of good drugstore makeups; Neutrogena makes some good liquid concealers and so do L'Oreal. If you want to try mineral makeup,off the top of my head I know Physician's Formula, L'Oreal, and Neutrogena all have mineral foundations (check the ingredients list for "food" ingredients like cornstarch, though, which can encourage bacterial growth when wet).
I also recommend going to [Removed link]; although not all the information provided is correct, it is a good resource that helps users learn the overall quality of almost any given cosmetics product.
Here's a quote from the link I provided, which supports that titanium dioxide and zinc oxide can clog pores:
"Acne, folliculitis, or skin rash may occur with physical sunscreen agents
because of their occlusive property."
Here's a quote from the Paula's Choice website (under "Sun Essentials") that supports that titanium dioxide and zinc oxide can clog pores:
"The sunscreen ingredients themselves can also cause either an irritated breakout reaction or titanium dioxide and zinc oxide can clog pores. "
I don't know why all that was so hard for you to find; sorry you missed it.
As a sidenote, just because an ingredient can clog pores doesn't mean it will for you personally. Some acne sufferers have better luck using physical sunscreens because their skin is sensitive to avobenzone (irritation can also cause breakouts). However, all of this I have mentioned before.
I saw the reference regarding acne being a side effect from physical sunscreen agents, but what you leave out in that quote is the introductory paragraph to it which contains important provisos. In particular its says that the side effects listed below, i.e. acne etc, are very rare - i.e. 1 to 2% and can often be put down to other ingredients within the relevant sunscreen. That is why it seems a bold statement to say that titanium dioxide should be avoided because it is comedogenic based on that quote. I don't really have an opinion on the Paula's choice website. It is another source of information, but I am not sure why it should be trusted above others. Have you found any sunscreens which are in your view non comedogenic / irritating?
As a sidenote, just because an ingredient can clog pores doesn't mean it will for you personally. Some acne sufferers have better luck using physical sunscreens because their skin is sensitive to avobenzone (irritation can also cause breakouts). However, all of this I have mentioned before.
I understand this. This is my I referred to my own personal experience. 
JBHK said:The_Snow_Queen said:Here's a quote from the link I provided, which supports that titanium dioxide and zinc oxide can clog pores:
"Acne, folliculitis, or skin rash may occur with physical sunscreen agents
because of their occlusive property."
Here's a quote from the Paula's Choice website (under "Sun Essentials") that supports that titanium dioxide and zinc oxide can clog pores:
"The sunscreen ingredients themselves can also cause either an irritated breakout reaction or titanium dioxide and zinc oxide can clog pores. "
I don't know why all that was so hard for you to find; sorry you missed it.
As a sidenote, just because an ingredient can clog pores doesn't mean it will for you personally. Some acne sufferers have better luck using physical sunscreens because their skin is sensitive to avobenzone (irritation can also cause breakouts). However, all of this I have mentioned before.
I saw the reference regarding acne being a side effect from physical sunscreen agents, but what you leave out in that quote is the introductory paragraph to it which contains important provisos. In particular its says that the side effects listed below, i.e. acne etc, are very rare - i.e. 1 to 2% and can often be put down to other ingredients within the relevant sunscreen. That is why it seems a bold statement to say that titanium dioxide should be avoided because it is comedogenic based on that quote. I don't really have an opinion on the Paula's choice website. It is another source of information, but I am not sure why it should be trusted above others. Have you found any sunscreens which are in your view non comedogenic / irritating?
The_Snow_Queen said:As a sidenote, just because an ingredient can clog pores doesn't mean it will for you personally. Some acne sufferers have better luck using physical sunscreens because their skin is sensitive to avobenzone (irritation can also cause breakouts). However, all of this I have mentioned before.
I understand this. This is my I referred to my own personal experience.
I do not think it is bold to alert acne sufferers that titanium dioxide and zinc oxide can clog pores (just like it is not bold to alert benzoyl peroxide users that a small percentage of people are allergic to that ingredient). Obviously the site I referred you to thought it was important enough to alert sunscreen users of this as well.
I trust the Paula's Choice website because Paula Begoun frequently lists her sources (far more so than [Removed link]). You make no mention of any inquiry on your part of [Removed link] sources. If indeed you have not, I find it hypocritical that you seem to accept their information over mine when I have provided sources.
Ancedotally, titanium dioxide does not clog my pores (as is demonstrated by the sunscreen I list in my signature). However, I have had friends that can't use physical sunscreens because it causes breakouts on their skins. When I recommended some avobenzone based sunscreens for them to try, their skin fared better. As a general rule, I recommend people use avobenzone-based sunscreens like those from the Neutrogena Dry-Touch line to minimize the risk of clogged pores (however insignificantly small it may seem to you), unless they find themselves sensitive to that sunscreen, in which case I recommend a sunscreen featuring physical sunscreens such as the titanium-based one I use from Clinique, or an in-part physical sunscreen such as Paula's Choice Essential Moisturizing Sunscreen SPF 15.
Also, to answer your question, I very seldomly call a product "non-comedogenic" or "non-irritating." I usually say that a product is not likely to clog pores or is not likely to cause irritation. The Neutrogena Dry-Touch sunscreens I mentioned do not seem to cause breakouts for most of those who have tried it, and the Clinique sunscreen I use is very gentle.
The_Snow_Queen said:I trust the Paula's Choice website because Paula Begoun frequently lists her sources (far more so than [Removed link]). You make no mention of any inquiry on your part of [Removed link] sources. If indeed you have not, I find it hypocritical that you seem to accept their information over mine when I have provided sources.
The reason I like the [Removed link] article is because it is the most comprehensive rating of the comedogenicity (sp?) / irritability of various cosmetic ingredients that I have seen and it is organised in an easy to read and understandable way. You are right to say that I have not carried out any independent investigation as to the assertions made in that site (I have often said in other posts where I mention it that I have no way of verifing whether the information in it is true). However, the difference between you and me is that I am not telling other acne sufferers what they should or should not do as a given set 'dos' and 'donts'. I am not saying it is a bad thing to do - I actually think it is commendable. But, if you are going to hold yourself out there as an authority on this subject it is reasonable for people to question you as to why you have reached the conclusions you have, especially when there is so much misinformation floating around on the net.
This is why I raised the question on the titanium dioxide. The report you cited on this provides, at best, limited support for the conclusion you reached which is why I said that I had no reason to believe that [Removed link]was wrong in that respect. The second source of information you provided was the Paula's choice website in respect of which I expressed no view and which, from recollection, did not provide any references for the assertions made.
The_Snow_Queen said:I do not think it is bold to alert acne sufferers that titanium dioxide and zinc oxide can clog pores (just like it is not bold to alert benzoyl peroxide users that a small percentage of people are allergic to that ingredient). Obviously the site I referred you to thought it was important enough to alert sunscreen users of this as well.
Sure, but I think there is a difference between saying that it can clog pores and saying that it has been reported as clogging pores in a very small percentage of people and even then it is not entirely clear whether the issue is with the titanium dioxide or with other ingredients found with it. Yes the article thought it important enough to mention the link, but it also thought it important enough to say that the incidence of reported problems was very low. From recollection, I believe the article notes that the issue may arise with all physical sunscreens and not just titanium dioxide.
Hey guys, would you recommend using either of these two aveeno moisturizers?
ULTRA-CALMING DAILY MOISTURIZER WITH SPF 15
[Removed link]
POSITIVELY RADIANT DAILY MOISTURIZER WITH SPF 15
[Removed link]
For the Ultra Calming one, I looked up feverfew in the ingredient dictionary, and there it says it actually causes irritation.
don't know if this has been mentioned yet but
11. Don't steam the skin or rinse with hot water as this can cause capillaries to surface and irritation. It is best to wash with luke-warm water.
Hasn't steam been suggested here and in other areas as a good idea for acne?
I have always seen conflicting reports about the benefits of steam. For this reason I personally just try to avoid it.
JBHK said:The_Snow_Queen said:I trust the Paula's Choice website because Paula Begoun frequently lists her sources (far more so than [Removed link]). You make no mention of any inquiry on your part of [Removed link] sources. If indeed you have not, I find it hypocritical that you seem to accept their information over mine when I have provided sources.
The reason I like the [Removed link]article is because it is the most comprehensive rating of the comedogenicity (sp?) / irritability of various cosmetic ingredients that I have seen and it is organised in an easy to read and understandable way. You are right to say that I have not carried out any independent investigation as to the assertions made in that site (I have often said in other posts where I mention it that I have no way of verifing whether the information in it is true). However, the difference between you and me is that I am not telling other acne sufferers what they should or should not do as a given set 'dos' and 'donts'. I am not saying it is a bad thing to do - I actually think it is commendable. But, if you are going to hold yourself out there as an authority on this subject it is reasonable for people to question you as to why you have reached the conclusions you have, especially when there is so much misinformation floating around on the net.
This is why I raised the question on the titanium dioxide. The report you cited on this provides, at best, limited support for the conclusion you reached which is why I said that I had no reason to believe that zerozits.com was wrong in that respect. The second source of information you provided was the Paula's choice website in respect of which I expressed no view and which, from recollection, did not provide any references for the assertions made.
The_Snow_Queen said:I do not think it is bold to alert acne sufferers that titanium dioxide and zinc oxide can clog pores (just like it is not bold to alert benzoyl peroxide users that a small percentage of people are allergic to that ingredient). Obviously the site I referred you to thought it was important enough to alert sunscreen users of this as well.
Sure, but I think there is a difference between saying that it can clog pores and saying that it has been reported as clogging pores in a very small percentage of people and even then it is not entirely clear whether the issue is with the titanium dioxide or with other ingredients found with it. Yes the article thought it important enough to mention the link, but it also thought it important enough to say that the incidence of reported problems was very low. From recollection, I believe the article notes that the issue may arise with all physical sunscreens and not just titanium dioxide.
Although you are correct that Paula Begoun does not list any specific references specifically relating to our titanium dioxide controversy, she does frequently site her work, far more so than [Removed link] or most other skin care sites. That and the fact that I have never found any of her statements to be outwright wrong when compared with various unbiased sources has earned her my trust.
Another point- I never tell anyone that an ingredient indefinately will clog pores, I just alert readers that an ingredient can clog pores.
Titanium dioxide can clog pores based on the information I have read (and all physical sunscreens, which by the way, I did and do acknowledge), and I am not going to change my statements. Also, the resource says that a small percentage of people reported problems from using physical sunscreens, but the resource does not directly say who those using the various sunscreens were (both those that reported problems and those that did not), or if those people were acne sufferers and/or prone to clogged pores, or how long the sunscreen testers tested the sunscreens four (clogged pores can take two weeks to form); therefore, I don't think saying that only a small percentage of people experience breakouts from physical sunscreens is entirely accurate without more information.
Obviously we are going to disagree on this subject. Thus far, I have not read anything to convince me that physical sunscreens should be recommended to acne sufferers over synthetic sunscreens (unless, of course, one is sensitive to a synthetic sunscreen, in which case he or she should use a physical sunscreen).
Smokeyjay said:Sorry I didn't read all the posts.
But whats wrong with citric acid? In the red mark forum, lemon juice is hailed there. With egg white.
And Im using baking soda as an exfoliant. It feels like sandpaper against my skin. Is that too harsh?
According to wikipedia.org, citric acid is "a weak organic acid found in citrus fruits" like lemons. In small amounts citric acid is OK and is used to balance a product's pH and as a preservative.
Pure lemon juice on the otherhand is a skin irritant (think of what happens when lemon juice is poured onto an open cut). According to [Removed link], it does have antibacterial properties, but at the same time the irritation it causes can damge the skin's immune response.
I'm guessing that the lemon juice is used as an exfoliant, but really, it would be both beneficial and much less damaging to use a good alpha hydroxy acid or beta hydroxy acid product.
I'm not quite sure how egg whites could benefit red marks, but I would be concerned about putting egg whites on my skin for fear of encouraging bacterial growth.
In my experience, the best way to treat red marks is to be patient, stay out of the sun (and wear a broad-spectrum sunscreen), and use gentle skin care products. Prescription retinoids and chemical exfoliants like those mentioned above may also help speed their dissapearance, but they don't work miracles.
What has worked miracles for me is V-Beam, but it's expensive and requires multiple visits. I wouldn't have undergone it otherwise, but I have many surfaced/broken capillaries (some of them leftover from years-old nodules) that weren't going away anytime soon.
Really, I think most of the products raved over in the Red Marks Forum are a result of wishful thinking. People attribute various remedies with the removal of these red marks when really it's the skin doing most of the work. The difference between V-Beam and the remedies mentioned in the Red Marks Forum is that there's real scientific support backing V-Beam's claims.
don't know if this has been mentioned yet but
11. Don't steam the skin or rinse with hot water as this can cause capillaries to surface and irritation. It is best to wash with luke-warm water.
Hasn't steam been suggested here and in other areas as a good idea for acne?
Most dermatologists will tell you that heat and steam are bad for the skin, as is also mentioned in Cutis and Dermatological Therapy.
Interesting Snow Queen. You sound very knowledgable regarding acne treatment.
I'm using egg white with drops of lemon as a face mask. I leave it on for 15-20 mins and then wash it off. The lemon drops I feel are too minimal to cause irritation.
I'm nearing 21, and some of my red marks are quite old. I looked into V-beam and I'm quite interesting in doing it, but since I just came off Accutane about 3 months ago, I'm planning to wait some more months before going ahead with it.
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Apple cidar vinegar is also getting pretty popular in the red mark forum.