ayla said:

rofl, there's is obvious evidence on both empirical and individual levels as to the damages of tanning. I didn't say a word about sun damage.

link: http://www.drugs.com/npp/witch_hazel.html

link: [Removed link]

And as I stated earlier, the alcohol can easily be removed by a person willing to take the two minutes to do so. Paula's 'proof' is poor because it takes fragmented sentences about alcohol, tannins, and witch hazel and meshes them together to prove something that is not there. Removing the focus from the actual substance, and placing it onto something else, in this case tannins and alcohol, is what is known as a straw man - a kind of logical fallacy. Her representation of the facts is simply wrong. The reason I am addressing this is because someone posted about their success with witch hazel. You in turn posted Paula's opinion, and claimed that the product was irritating. History begs to differ, and so do I, and of course the original poster. Aloetta was using and addressing a commercially prepared hamamalis water, to give her information regarding another product would also be misleading.

Please tell me, which of my opinions is ill-supported, or not at all. I would like clear this up.

First off, your opinions about Paula are ill-supported and biased; as mentioned earlier, neither Paula nor myself said that distilled witch hazel has a high tannin content. I understand why you think Paula stating that witch hazel has a high tannin content could be misleading, but I don't think Paula intentionally meant to mislead anyone and to imply so would be rash. Even if Paula did misrepresent something, to say that the information she provides is just as much useful as it is not is competely biased. And besides, I don't know your profession, but as a cosmetics researcher I'm guesing Paula knows a lot more about the subject of witch hazel than you or aloetta.

I first thought that witch hazel was an irritant several years before I even heard of Paula Begoun; every time I applied witch hazel to my skin erythema was produced. The fact that many dermatologists discourage the use of witch hazel, as well as Paula (who doesn't make opinions without thuroughly researching the subject first) only helped verify my original conclusion.

You said that people have been using witch hazel for thousands of years, supposedly with no issues. I mentioned that people have been tanning for thousands of years because many of these people didn't think there were any issues (other than social) with it either. Just because people have been doing something for a long time doesn't mean that something is unconditionally beneficial. Sorry you didn't see the connection.

Your first source says that witch hazel is beneficial to eczema because it dries it out. How is drying out eczema beneficial when dryness is a problem associated with the condition?

If witch hazel is great for regular use, why do many rosacea sites advise against it? One would think that rosacea, a condition which can benefit greatly from the use of anti-inflammatories, would therfore benefit from the regular use of witch hazel, but instead witch hazel is not recommended for use along with other irritants.

According to a survey conducted by the National Rosacea Society, skin care products and cosmetics that contain alcohol, eucalyptus, fragrance, menthol, peppermint, or witch hazel are more likely to aggravate rosacea.

[Removed link]

As mentioned earlier, just because your skin doesn't show any immediate signs of irritation doesn't mean that damage hasn't taken place from using irritating ingredients; much like UVA rays (which are not primarily associated with burning or tanning but rather with premature aging and skin cancer), irritation isn't always noticed at first. If you use skin irritants repeatedly on the skin that damage adds up over time. (Source: Skin Research and Technology, November 2001, pages 227,237).

And on that note I never said that witch hazel couldn't be soothing initially (for some people); it's repeated use that I'm concerned about. If your looking for anti-inflammatories, there's alternatives available which do not pose the same problems as witch hazel like willow herb.

The_Snow_Queen said:

ayla said:

rofl, there's is obvious evidence on both empirical and individual levels as to the damages of tanning. I didn't say a word about sun damage.

link: http://www.drugs.com/npp/witch_hazel.html

link: [Removed link]

And as I stated earlier, the alcohol can easily be removed by a person willing to take the two minutes to do so. Paula's 'proof' is poor because it takes fragmented sentences about alcohol, tannins, and witch hazel and meshes them together to prove something that is not there. Removing the focus from the actual substance, and placing it onto something else, in this case tannins and alcohol, is what is known as a straw man - a kind of logical fallacy. Her representation of the facts is simply wrong. The reason I am addressing this is because someone posted about their success with witch hazel. You in turn posted Paula's opinion, and claimed that the product was irritating. History begs to differ, and so do I, and of course the original poster. Aloetta was using and addressing a commercially prepared hamamalis water, to give her information regarding another product would also be misleading.

Please tell me, which of my opinions is ill-supported, or not at all. I would like clear this up.

First off, your opinions about Paula are ill-supported and biased; as mentioned earlier, neither Paula nor myself said that distilled witch hazel has a high tannin content. I understand why you think Paula stating that witch hazel has a high tannin content could be misleading, but I don't think Paula intentionally meant to mislead anyone and to imply so would be rash. Even if Paula did misrepresent something, to say that the information she provides is just as much useful as it is not is competely biased. And besides, I don't know your profession, but as a cosmetics researcher I'm guesing Paula knows a lot more about the subject of witch hazel than you or aloetta.

I first thought that witch hazel was an irritant several years before I even heard of Paula Begoun; every time I applied witch hazel to my skin erythema was produced. The fact that many dermatologists discourage the use of witch hazel, as well as Paula (who doesn't make opinions without thuroughly researching the subject first) only helped verify my original conclusion.

You said that people have been using witch hazel for thousands of years, supposedly with no issues. I mentioned that people have been tanning for thousands of years because many of these people didn't think there were any issues (other than social) with it either. Just because people have been doing something for a long time doesn't mean that something is unconditionally beneficial. Sorry you didn't see the connection.

Your first source says that witch hazel is beneficial to eczema because it dries it out. How is drying out eczema beneficial when dryness is a problem associated with the condition?

If witch hazel is great for regular use, why do many rosacea sites advise against it? One would think that rosacea, a condition which can benefit greatly from the use of anti-inflammatories, would therfore benefit from the regular use of witch hazel, but instead witch hazel is not recommended for use along with other irritants.

According to a survey conducted by the National Rosacea Society, skin care products and cosmetics that contain alcohol, eucalyptus, fragrance, menthol, peppermint, or witch hazel are more likely to aggravate rosacea.

[Removed link]

As mentioned earlier, just because your skin doesn't show any immediate signs of irritation doesn't mean that damage hasn't taken place from using irritating ingredients; much like UVA rays (which are not primarily associated with burning or tanning but rather with premature aging and skin cancer), irritation isn't always noticed at first. If you use skin irritants repeatedly on the skin that damage adds up over time. (Source: Skin Research and Technology, November 2001, pages 227,237).

And on that note I never said that witch hazel couldn't be soothing initially (for some people); it's repeated use that I'm concerned about. If your looking for anti-inflammatories, there's alternatives available which do not pose the same problems as witch hazel like willow herb.

Ok- I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm not saying that WH has been used without incident for thousands of years, I'm certain there are people that are allergic or who have had idiosyncratic reactions. Then there are those who have skin particularly sensitive to alcohol. Someone with rosacea would be one of these people. Most people so not have these rather extreme-ended sensitivities. I think that Paula's explanation narrowed in on this low percentage of people, and then the way it was posted in response Aloetta's question seemed as though you were stating it was contraindicated. Which it is not. It comes highly recommended by many Dr.'s as a gentle alternative to the alcohol/preservative/surfecant/acid laden astringents available in the skin care aisles of many stores.

I'm not saying that Paula intended to mislead anyone, or that you did. What I'm saying is that the quoted definition leaves out crucial information about witch hazel, and gives only those instances that would be contraindicated. This leaves the remainder of the research up to the consumer, caveat emporium - which is fine, and long as the consumer knows that this is not a complete herbal profile. People can essentially be allergic or sensitive to anything.

The herb you mentioned, Willow Herb, also contains high levels of tannin, which is why it is an astringent. It also contains high levels of mucilage, which is a kind of emollient substance that can be quite soothing to the skin. Witch Hazel does not contain a significant amount of mucilage. Therefore if the sensitivity to was to alcohol and not tannin, a decoction or infusion of this herb would more than likely be beneficial. An extract prepared with alcohol (distillation) would pose the same problems as the WH.

If reference to the questions posed about the studies, read them, they will answer your questions.

No, I am not an esthetician, and neither are you. But I do know my herbs very, very well. If you are going to reference something like this you need to understand fully what you are referencing. It is glaringly obvious to me that the definition of this herb is intended to alert people with sensitive skins and/or rosacea/dryness/etc., and is incomplete. It is not intended to warn off those without certain sensitivities.

Now, lets call a truce, I think that we are trying to do the same thing here - help people understand what is good for their skin, and what can pose problems. And I agree with you, WH can pose a problem for some people.

Aloetta said:

The_Snow_Queen said:

ayla said:

rofl, there's is obvious evidence on both empirical and individual levels as to the damages of tanning. I didn't say a word about sun damage.

link: http://www.drugs.com/npp/witch_hazel.html

link: [Removed link]

And as I stated earlier, the alcohol can easily be removed by a person willing to take the two minutes to do so. Paula's 'proof' is poor because it takes fragmented sentences about alcohol, tannins, and witch hazel and meshes them together to prove something that is not there. Removing the focus from the actual substance, and placing it onto something else, in this case tannins and alcohol, is what is known as a straw man - a kind of logical fallacy. Her representation of the facts is simply wrong. The reason I am addressing this is because someone posted about their success with witch hazel. You in turn posted Paula's opinion, and claimed that the product was irritating. History begs to differ, and so do I, and of course the original poster. Aloetta was using and addressing a commercially prepared hamamalis water, to give her information regarding another product would also be misleading.

Please tell me, which of my opinions is ill-supported, or not at all. I would like clear this up.

First off, your opinions about Paula are ill-supported and biased; as mentioned earlier, neither Paula nor myself said that distilled witch hazel has a high tannin content. I understand why you think Paula stating that witch hazel has a high tannin content could be misleading, but I don't think Paula intentionally meant to mislead anyone and to imply so would be rash. Even if Paula did misrepresent something, to say that the information she provides is just as much useful as it is not is competely biased. And besides, I don't know your profession, but as a cosmetics researcher I'm guesing Paula knows a lot more about the subject of witch hazel than you or aloetta.

First off, your opinions about Paula are ill-supported and biased; as mentioned earlier, neither Paula nor myself said that distilled witch hazel has a high tannin content. I understand why you think Paula stating that witch hazel has a high tannin content could be misleading, but I don't think Paula intentionally meant to mislead anyone and to imply so would be rash. Even if Paula did misrepresent something, to say that the information she provides is just as much useful as it is not is competely biased. And besides, I don't know your profession, but as a cosmetics researcher I'm guesing Paula knows a lot more about the subject of witch hazel than you or aloetta.

I first thought that witch hazel was an irritant several years before I even heard of Paula Begoun; every time I applied witch hazel to my skin erythema was produced. The fact that many dermatologists discourage the use of witch hazel, as well as Paula (who doesn't make opinions without thuroughly researching the subject first) only helped verify my original conclusion.

You said that people have been using witch hazel for thousands of years, supposedly with no issues. I mentioned that people have been tanning for thousands of years because many of these people didn't think there were any issues (other than social) with it either. Just because people have been doing something for a long time doesn't mean that something is unconditionally beneficial. Sorry you didn't see the connection.

Your first source says that witch hazel is beneficial to eczema because it dries it out. How is drying out eczema beneficial when dryness is a problem associated with the condition?

If witch hazel is great for regular use, why do many rosacea sites advise against it? One would think that rosacea, a condition which can benefit greatly from the use of anti-inflammatories, would therfore benefit from the regular use of witch hazel, but instead witch hazel is not recommended for use along with other irritants.

According to a survey conducted by the National Rosacea Society, skin care products and cosmetics that contain alcohol, eucalyptus, fragrance, menthol, peppermint, or witch hazel are more likely to aggravate rosacea.

[Removed link]

As mentioned earlier, just because your skin doesn't show any immediate signs of irritation doesn't mean that damage hasn't taken place from using irritating ingredients; much like UVA rays (which are not primarily associated with burning or tanning but rather with premature aging and skin cancer), irritation isn't always noticed at first. If you use skin irritants repeatedly on the skin that damage adds up over time. (Source: Skin Research and Technology, November 2001, pages 227-237).

And on that note I never said that witch hazel couldn't be soothing initially (for some people); it's repeated use that I'm concerned about. If your looking for anti-inflammatories, there's alternatives available which do not pose the same problems as witch hazel like willow herb.

]

SNOWQ. ..Great source of input, for ROSCEA suffers

inwhich dosn't APPLY to me but to those whom suffer from that sort of skin aliment!!

I havn't implied that it was SAFE (for those w/ that SKIN aliment), nor have I ever had that ISSUE."ROSACEA"

As for it being a potent IRRITANT so are prescribed ACNE PRODUCTS, CREAMS & GELS - inwhich cause many CANCERS - I believe Witch-Hazel is much more Milder and Safer effect being that you consider it to be a HIGH IRRITANT (?)

Many ppl in the past have adviced using ALCOHOL alone - to dry up PORES/ACNE.. now we all know what that contributes to?

Perhaps that is why I have had excellent results in using Witch-hazel....

My skin has improved 100%

And sorry to hear that it hasn't benefit you in past. But as stated before - all skins DO vary.

* _{Glad you listed it for those that suffer from ROSASEA... (unapplicable)}

BTW... Witch Hazel is incorporated to many but many products CREAMS/ Lotions,BEAUTY aids and.....................>>> MAKEUP, perhpas ppl w/ ROSACEA should streer away from not only Witch Hazel alone as a TONER..

If witch hazel is great for regular use, why do many rosacea sites advise against it? One would think that rosacea, a condition which can benefit greatly from the use of anti-inflammatories, would therfore benefit from the regular use of witch hazel, but instead witch hazel is not recommended for use along with other irritants.

Let me try and simplify my points some more. Rosacea sufferers are told to avoid irritants, like witch hazel, which is why I mentioned this (and provided a source stating that the effects of irritation aren't always noticeable since many people falsely believe that irritants only damage people with noticeably sensitive skin). If it were as wonderful an anti-inflammatory agent as it's made out to be, rosacea sufferers would be all over it. The point was that witch hazel is considered irritating, and this is not limited to rosacea sufferers.

I have yet to see any reliable evidence that acne products cause skin cancers. Some prescription products, like Retin-A, are considered very irritating, but it's also thought that the benefits outweigh the negatives. Actually, pretty much anything you do to your skin is going to cause some irritation, the key is reducing the overall amount you'll get from a daily skincare regimen whenever possible. The irritants I recommend avoiding are those that 1) have no proven benefit for the skin or 2) can be replaced by less irritating ingredients (which is why I mentioned that willow herb acts as an anti-inflammatory and that products containg this can be used instead).

I would rather use witch hazel on my skin that high concentrations of alcohol, but I feel that both are too irritating for frequent use.

Anyway, we've both presented and explained our viewpoints, so hopefully readers can decide for themselves on the matter.

It's great to hear that your skin is clear, and I hope it stays clear for you even though we disagree on certain things.

Aloetta said:

PS} Your THREAD indiciated MISTAKES: What NOT to do and WHAT YOU CAN DO... above that, MILD to MODERATE acne...

*I my dear- had SEVERE ACNE/chronical... and HAD it for several YEARS - majority of my outbreaks under control from MED's in my MID 20's early 30's.... but nope it hasn't cleared as it has TODAY !

As mines was all contributed to many factors, ie: Allergy (food reactions), OILY SKIN, HOROMONES perhaps not MILD as YOURS (may I add here) and as a result put more effort to educate myself on applicable appilcations rather than "word of mouth" I suppose, after trial and err of usage or professional help - guess I seek more solutions as yourself might do today browsing the sites.

Plus... Is this TOPIC "SUBJECT" only applicable for your feedback- whether it's proven from EVIDENCE from yourself or SITES - I do see your point in accuracy & throughness and appreciate the disclosure to such - but really, ppl may look to the INTERNET or advice ie: DOCTORS. SPECIALISTS, HERBALISTS, NATROPATHS,, etc....

BESIDES MY conquest was not only in the cure of my acne but rather other aliments to which many disorders have originated and as a result from working at a doctors office gave me first glance in issues at mind in aliments of benefited means.

And if you EVER had to have an Opinion on a major medical issue youd come to realize no two doctors may agree to one certain or particulars of technique.

Does that only Apply to YOU alone for word of any suggestions? I feel you have strongly attacked & ignored personal achievement here inwhich another may input or advise given misguided reference ie: TOPIC/SUBJECT

ie: UNSAFE or INJURIOUS products or CONTENTS

ie: Usage of certain merchandise, ingredients, or elements .

Yes anyone can look as to any topical solution as a MYTH or REALITY. So opinions & beliefs will vary as curative measures for useful advice or assistance.

*Plus I find copying & posting past evidence that dosn't pertain to certain individual/INDIVIDAL's ( as myself, including ROSCEA added remarks from TANNIN inwhich you started stating from PAULA's POST) does not suffice, but perhaps a benefit to those WHOM have that current dilema-

But again... perhaps it may all be an EYE-OPENER for others (HOPEFULLY).... (sighs)

ciao!

PS} Kept in MIND this is a FORUM and all OPINIONS, SUGGESTIONS are welcomed, are they not?

Well, I'm sorry you have such negative opinions of myself and the advice I give. However, many acne.org users have been helped by this thread and I will continue to provide suggestions to those seeking my opinions. If you don't want to hear my opinions, you don't have to post here, and neither does anyone else. Not every doctor will agree with what I write, but there are many who would (and probably more who would than wouldn't). And besides, from what I've seen doctors in general don't differ too much in the best treatment methods of acne; that doesn't mean they won't have treatment methods they feel are best for an individual, but as to what can and can't generally work as an acne treatment they tend to agree more than not. You are right that the internet is a huge resource for those wishing to treat acne; I wrote this thread for those who were looking to treat acne and who were interested in the skincare tips I had to give. If you don't like my advice, you don't have to follow it. In the end treating acne is up to the individual.

One more thing: my acne was not mild, it was moderate. I say so because it was mild in the quantity of lesions I got, but severe in the types of lesions (nodules). I broke out every other week every month of every year; the lesions tended to last a while and left red marks that lasted for years. Thank God I never scarred. I tried all sorts of things; harsh cleansers, honey masks, clay masks, poorly formulated salicylic acid products, poorly-formulated benzoyl peroxide products, hydrogen peroxide, harsh scrubs, alcohol, witch hazel, vinegar, citrus juices, oatmeal, essential oils, and various skincare kits and products which either did nothing or made me break out more. Researching acne care and following Paula Begoun's advice helped me educate myself and build a regimen which ultimately saved my skin, which is one reason (but by no means the only) why I love Paula and what she has to say so much.

Snow Queen, I really admire you and thank you so much for the personalized feedback you give. I've learned a lot about skincare thanks to your posting!

Anyway, I was wondering if you had checked out the Goat's Milk Regimen threads (here and here). I've been keeping up with these and I noticed that they use bar soap, which seems to be against the "rules" for most people. Do you think this would be effective long term? Are there any concerns you'd share about it? I am thinking about doing this, but adding SPF- I'm not risking sun damage!

Thank you so much!

Snow Queen, I really admire you and thank you so much for the personalized feedback you give. I've learned a lot about skincare thanks to your posting!

 

Anyway, I was wondering if you had checked out the Goat's Milk Regimen threads (here and here). I've been keeping up with these and I noticed that they use bar soap, which seems to be against the "rules" for most people. Do you think this would be effective long term? Are there any concerns you'd share about it? I am thinking about doing this, but adding SPF- I'm not risking sun damage!

 

Thank you so much!

Hi Eva, and thanks so much for the compliments; they really mean a lot.

You're right that I don't advocate the use of bar soap. They tend to have alkaline pH levels, leave a potentially pore-clogging film on the face, and use harsh cleansing agents (some soaps contain emollient ingredients like shea butter to help reduce the drying effects of the cleansing agents, but the cleansing agents can still be problematic and the added emollients can also not rinse cleanly). Even bar cleansers that don't have alkaline pH levels and that aren't true soap products still cause problems beacuse it is the ingredients that keep these cleansers in bar form that can leave a film on the face.

The unscented goat's milk soap lists goat's milk as the last ingredient, so one wonders if the milk did do anything how much. Also, I'm concerned about milk encouraging microbial growth (though it's not left on the skin, so probably wouldn't be a problem in that respect).

Another problem that I have with the regimen (which you also found with it) is that it doesn't recommend the use of a sunscreen except when in the sun for long periods of time. There is much evidence that a sunscreen is needed daily and I doubt you will find a dermatologist who disagrees.

The Complex 15 Moisturizer is just a basic moisturizer; it could be better, but it's not bad. It contains myristyl myristate, a waxy thickener that some individuals find causes breakouts (but again, only certain individuals; if you decide to use this wait a few weeks before blaming any breakouts on the product as clogged pores take a few weeks to appear on the skin's surface).

Jojoba oil is a good emolient and aloe vera gel can be soothing.

From the reviews, it seems that the Buff Puff Facial Sponge is gentle, though if you think it's too abrasive for your skin don't use it. One thing I'm concerned about is that this, as is the case with loofahs, can harbor microbes.

Anyway, if you're really curious you should go ahead and try the regimen (otherwise you'll always wonder about it), it's just not something I would do personally.

Dear Queen,

I was wondering...I just started trying the samples...not really sure why since Im going to see a supposedly good derm this week...but I was just wondering...

I have both 1 and 2% of Paula's...i tried the 1% last night and it felt good...but then this morning i felt like just testing out the 2% to see how it would react w/ my face...kinda feels more uncomfortable...I found out after reading how I should be taking it, that I should only start w/ one application a day...my skin doesnt seem irritated or red or anything...but it did kinda peel off or flake off after application...should i be concerned? And how else should i go along with this...? Should I stop using it and just wait to here from my derm?

My skin is very sensitive and oily...i just dont kno what im doing i guess...

Hey again. You helped me find a good cleanser, the BioTherm. But i had a few questions about moisturizers. There were a few i was looking into, i got my acne under control but now my skin is dry, my doctor said to try a vitamin c cream or lotion that this may help with some of the dryness. I was going to try a moisturizer with vitamin C in it, specifically Avalon Organics moisturizer. Would a moisturizer lotion containing vitamin c be alright to use? Also i like moisturizers with SPF in them so i dont need an additional sunblock, is this alright to?

My last question, i have inflammatory acne. Ive been using green cream and my new cleanser, it works good. I started a MaMa lotion, mandelic acid in also. Im going to switch to Nucelle though because its more for sensitive skin, Is mandelic acid a good alternative to Benzoyl Peroxide since it is anti-bacterial? I figured it exfoliates and kills bacteria, so i can get rid of 2 products, BP and SA and kill 2 birds with 1 stone making it easier on me.

[Removed link]

Thats the ingredient link to the moisturizer i was looking at. Also if you think i could do better, could you recommend some good ones? I have a hard time finding ones that go on smoothly, not greasy or oily or shiny and also dont cause breakouts.

Thank you sooo much for helping me.

Dear Queen,

 

I was wondering...I just started trying the samples...not really sure why since Im going to see a supposedly good derm this week...but I was just wondering...

 

I have both 1 and 2% of Paula's...i tried the 1% last night and it felt good...but then this morning i felt like just testing out the 2% to see how it would react w/ my face...kinda feels more uncomfortable...I found out after reading how I should be taking it, that I should only start w/ one application a day...my skin doesnt seem irritated or red or anything...but it did kinda peel off or flake off after application...should i be concerned? And how else should i go along with this...? Should I stop using it and just wait to here from my derm?

 

My skin is very sensitive and oily...i just dont kno what im doing i guess...

When first using a salicylic acid product, it is common to experience increased skin sensitivity for the first few weeks until your skin adjusts to the treatment. Salicylic acid can be used as often as twice daily and as little as once every other day (though most people I think need it at least once daily). You don't have to start out using salicylic acid once every day, but it's encouraged if you're new to the treatment and/or are prone to experiencing visible signs of irritation. You can reduce your applications of the 2% BHA product to once every other day and then try gradually increasing your applications, or you can start out using the 1% BHA product and then move on to the 2% BHA product.

JonasBrothers said:

Hey again. You helped me find a good cleanser, the BioTherm. But i had a few questions about moisturizers. There were a few i was looking into, i got my acne under control but now my skin is dry, my doctor said to try a vitamin c cream or lotion that this may help with some of the dryness. I was going to try a moisturizer with vitamin C in it, specifically Avalon Organics moisturizer. Would a moisturizer lotion containing vitamin c be alright to use? Also i like moisturizers with SPF in them so i dont need an additional sunblock, is this alright to?

My last question, i have inflammatory acne. Ive been using green cream and my new cleanser, it works good. I started a MaMa lotion, mandelic acid in also. Im going to switch to Nucelle though because its more for sensitive skin, Is mandelic acid a good alternative to Benzoyl Peroxide since it is anti-bacterial? I figured it exfoliates and kills bacteria, so i can get rid of 2 products, BP and SA and kill 2 birds with 1 stone making it easier on me.

[Removed link]

Thats the ingredient link to the moisturizer i was looking at. Also if you think i could do better, could you recommend some good ones? I have a hard time finding ones that go on smoothly, not greasy or oily or shiny and also dont cause breakouts.

Thank you sooo much for helping me.

The moisturizer you posted would probably be OK despite the fragrance it contains, except it doesn't offer broad-spectrum sun protection. A very lightweight SPF 15 sunscreen is Clinique's City Block Sheer Oil-Free Daily Face Protector with SPF 15, though it's not very hydrating. If you want a more moisturizing sunscreen you might like those by Dove (so yes, it's OK to use moisturizers with SPF, but they might not be appropriate for your entire face, which I'll explain in the next paragraph).

If you don't have dry skin, you don't need a moisturizer. Actually, unnecessary moisturization can actually lead to more breakouts by mixing with the skin's excess sebum and trapping dead skin cells against the skin's surface. If you do have areas of dry skin and want something lightweight to spot-treat them with, gel moisturizers are great and don't contain the kinds of potentially pore-clogging waxlike thickeners lotions and creams do. You can do this under your sunscreen if you find that the sunscreen is not hydrating enough for all areas of your face. Paula's Choice Skin Balancing Moisture Gel is a good example of a great gel moisturizer. If you need something a little more emolient, Dove's Sensitive Skin Facial Lotion would be good.

I can't reliably promise that a product won't cause breakouts, and neither can any cosmetics company (terms like non-comedogenic have no regulations and can be put on anything). Clogged pores take a few weeks to form, so if you experience any unusual breakouts a few weeks after trying a new product, that new product might be the culprit.

Mandelic acid is an alpha hydroxy acid (AHA) that can better-penetrate into the pore than other tyeps of AHA's. However, salicylic acid, a beta hydroxy acid (BHA) better-penetrates the pore than mandelic acid and also exhibits antimicrobial properties. Although mandelic acid and salicylic acid both have antimicrobial properties, they are best-known as exfoliants and you might find that you need to use a separate disinfectant with them. So, you might like mandelic acid better, but if you're not happy with salicylic acid (which product are you using?) you probably will be disappointed by it.

Haha well actually I just received samples from paulas choice yesterday. The gel moisturizer was one of the samples also, I tried it out and i really do like it. Its not too heavy and as you said, it wont clog my pores as much. My problem is that my dry areas are my acne areas, everywhere i get acne is where im dry, so its hard to find a good moisturizer to put over those areas.

My salicylic acid product I was using was by Biomedic. My derm gave it to me. The only reason i wanted to switch to mandelic acid is because its anti-bacterial just as benzoyl peroxide is, but doesnt seem to dry me out as much. I didnt have a problem with the salicylic acid so to say, i just never saw results with it, and later i read that its good for exfoliating the pores, but isnt very good for people with inflammatory acne or bacteria caused acne. I ve been reading up on both and it seems that SA is anti-microbial as you said, but isnt actually anti-bacterial like the mandelic acid is, or at least not as much. Any info you know about this would be great? thanks again for your help.

Haha well actually I just received samples from paulas choice yesterday. The gel moisturizer was one of the samples also, I tried it out and i really do like it. Its not too heavy and as you said, it wont clog my pores as much. My problem is that my dry areas are my acne areas, everywhere i get acne is where im dry, so its hard to find a good moisturizer to put over those areas.

 

My salicylic acid product I was using was by Biomedic. My derm gave it to me. The only reason i wanted to switch to mandelic acid is because its anti-bacterial just as benzoyl peroxide is, but doesnt seem to dry me out as much. I didnt have a problem with the salicylic acid so to say, i just never saw results with it, and later i read that its good for exfoliating the pores, but isnt very good for people with inflammatory acne or bacteria caused acne. I ve been reading up on both and it seems that SA is anti-microbial as you said, but isnt actually anti-bacterial like the mandelic acid is, or at least not as much. Any info you know about this would be great? thanks again for your help.

Wanted to mention that while it is a nice moisturizer...it does not contain spf. It seems hard to find gel formulas for the face with an spf....I can't think of any found in drudstores off the top of my head but do know a company called IMAGE makes two. An spf 15 and 30 but they're only sold through professionals. Not too pricey either considering their size.

Hi There. Im here as everyone is, trying to control my acne. I have a great cleanser right now that im using, but its $25 over the internet one and its getting a bit pricey. Also the time-frame in which i receive it is annoying. I was in Rite aid the other day, which i prefer much more than walmart, on a quest to find a good body wash for my legs since i have eczema there. While i was there, i went to the facial section and looked for a good period of time at all the products. Im trying to find a cheaper cleanser that i can just drive into the store and pick up. One caught my eye, its called CeraVe, i read about their moisturizer in the one post and the person liked it. Can you tell me if it looks alright.

[Removed links]

I believe the ingredients are at the bottom. I also posted the moisturizer because if the cleanser is good, i'll just get both. I chose that one specifically because its soap free and supposed to be very gentle, but at the same time is supposed to be hydrating, which i need because my face is dry and i have a hard time finding cleansers that keep it hydrated. I really prefer foam facial washes, which is what mine is now, but i have a hard time finding them, its always gels or creams. When i do find foam ones, they end up having benzoyl peroxide or something bad in it and i read on your first page not to use those. If you think that cleanser is decent, great i'll try it, but if you dont, could you give me a few choices, ones for dry sensitive skin that wont cause more acne. Foam ones would be great, but if not thats cool. thanks for taking your time to help me.

are these ingredients ok?

Ingredients: Rice Powder, Titanium Dioxide, Zinc Stearate, Iron Oxide, Kaolin Clay, Silk Powder, Silica, Allantoin

Can you tell me if these ingredients look good for a mosturizer? thanks

Also is purpose a good cleanser? im trying to find a nice gentle soap-free, dye-free, fragrance-free, ph balanced, all that good stuff cleanser. thanks

Water (Aqua); Methyl Gluceth-20; PEG-12; Cyclomethicone; Glycerin; Propylene Glycol Ceteth-3 Acetate; Polyacrylamide; Benzoic Acid; Butylparaben; C13-14 Isoparaffin; Cholesterol; Disodium EDTA; DNA; Ethylparaben; Fragrance (Parfum); Hydroxyethylcellulose; Laureth-7; Lecithin; Methylparaben; PEG/PPG-18/18 Dimethicone; Phenoxyethanol; Potassium Sorbate; Propylparaben; Tetrasodium EDTA

Haha well actually I just received samples from paulas choice yesterday. The gel moisturizer was one of the samples also, I tried it out and i really do like it. Its not too heavy and as you said, it wont clog my pores as much. My problem is that my dry areas are my acne areas, everywhere i get acne is where im dry, so its hard to find a good moisturizer to put over those areas.

 

My salicylic acid product I was using was by Biomedic. My derm gave it to me. The only reason i wanted to switch to mandelic acid is because its anti-bacterial just as benzoyl peroxide is, but doesnt seem to dry me out as much. I didnt have a problem with the salicylic acid so to say, i just never saw results with it, and later i read that its good for exfoliating the pores, but isnt very good for people with inflammatory acne or bacteria caused acne. I ve been reading up on both and it seems that SA is anti-microbial as you said, but isnt actually anti-bacterial like the mandelic acid is, or at least not as much. Any info you know about this would be great? thanks again for your help.

To say something is antimicrobial means that it can destroy or inhibit the growth of microorganisms, which includes bacteria.

In all honesty I can't say whether or not mandelic acid is more effective against bacteria than salicylic acid, but I wouldn't think one would be significanly more effective than the other. Salicylic acid is more effective in penetrating the pore than mandelic acid and can be very effective for those with inflammatory acne (though as mentioned last time you might find that you need a separate disinfectant, but I think that would probably be the case for you with mandelic acid also).

Also, there's only a handful of effectively formulated salicylic acid products available on the market, and just because your dermatologist gave you a salicylic acid product to use doesn't mean that product is effective. Most salicylic acid products have too high of a pH (over 4) to allow the salicylic acid to act as an exfoliant and/or contain skin irritants like drying alcohols. The best salicylic acid products which I know of are these:

Bare Vitamins Skin Rever-Upper (if it really has a pH of 3.8, as the company claimed in an e-mail)

Neutrogena Rapid Clear Acne Defense Face Lotion

Olay Total Effects Anti-Aging Anti-Blemish Daily Moisturizer

Paula's Choice 1% or 2% Beta Hydroxy Acid products*

Serious Skin Care Clarifying Treatment

*Paula's Choice makes by far the best salicylic acid products

I really recommend trying out one of the above mentioned products first because there's a good chance your product you were using was not effectively formulated.

As far as your dry skin goes (which actually might be caused by your salicylic acid product you're using now since most of them contain harsh skin irritants), try out a gel moisturizer first like Paula's Choice Skin Balancing Moisture Gel because gel moisturizers tend to be less likely to clog pores than lotions and creams. If that isn't enough (and you seemed to indicate that it wasn't), try a more emolient moisturizer like Dove's Sensitive Skin Facial Moisturizer.

allxnaturale said:

Hi There. Im here as everyone is, trying to control my acne. I have a great cleanser right now that im using, but its $25 over the internet one and its getting a bit pricey. Also the time-frame in which i receive it is annoying. I was in Rite aid the other day, which i prefer much more than walmart, on a quest to find a good body wash for my legs since i have eczema there. While i was there, i went to the facial section and looked for a good period of time at all the products. Im trying to find a cheaper cleanser that i can just drive into the store and pick up. One caught my eye, its called CeraVe, i read about their moisturizer in the one post and the person liked it. Can you tell me if it looks alright.

[Removed links]

I believe the ingredients are at the bottom. I also posted the moisturizer because if the cleanser is good, i'll just get both. I chose that one specifically because its soap free and supposed to be very gentle, but at the same time is supposed to be hydrating, which i need because my face is dry and i have a hard time finding cleansers that keep it hydrated. I really prefer foam facial washes, which is what mine is now, but i have a hard time finding them, its always gels or creams. When i do find foam ones, they end up having benzoyl peroxide or something bad in it and i read on your first page not to use those. If you think that cleanser is decent, great i'll try it, but if you dont, could you give me a few choices, ones for dry sensitive skin that wont cause more acne. Foam ones would be great, but if not thats cool. thanks for taking your time to help me.

The cleanser and moisturizer both look good. Hope you like them!

are these ingredients ok?

Ingredients: Rice Powder, Titanium Dioxide, Zinc Stearate, Iron Oxide, Kaolin Clay, Silk Powder, Silica, Allantoin

The ingredients look fine, though if you have inflammatory acne rice powder might make it worse as it can encourage bacterial growth when wet.

Is steaming bad for the face? Will it lead to bigger pores in the future? What if you dont splash with cold water after steaming? Urgh I find that my pores are getting bigger. Not sure if it's due to steaming.

Can you tell me if these ingredients look good for a mosturizer? thanks

Also is purpose a good cleanser? im trying to find a nice gentle soap-free, dye-free, fragrance-free, ph balanced, all that good stuff cleanser. thanks

 

 

 

Water (Aqua); Methyl Gluceth-20; PEG-12; Cyclomethicone; Glycerin; Propylene Glycol Ceteth-3 Acetate; Polyacrylamide; Benzoic Acid; Butylparaben; C13-14 Isoparaffin; Cholesterol; Disodium EDTA; DNA; Ethylparaben; Fragrance (Parfum); Hydroxyethylcellulose; Laureth-7; Lecithin; Methylparaben; PEG/PPG-18/18 Dimethicone; Phenoxyethanol; Potassium Sorbate; Propylparaben; Tetrasodium EDTA

Your moisturizer looks fine, though waxy thickeners like isoparrafin can clog pores for some people. Clogged pores take a few weeks to form, so if you experience any unusual breakouts a few weeks after using this product it might be causing problems for you.

Purpose's Gentle Cleansing Wash is good, but it's not fragrance-free. Some cleansers that meet your requirements are Olay's Gentle Foaming Cleanser for Sensitive Skin, Clinique's Liquid Facial Soap in Mild (doesn't really contain soap), and Eucerin's Redness Relief Cleanser.

Is steaming bad for the face? Will it lead to bigger pores in the future? What if you dont splash with cold water after steaming? Urgh I find that my pores are getting bigger. Not sure if it's due to steaming.

I don't recommend steaming because it can cause capillaries to surface and, as many dermatologists will tell you,is irritating.

Cold water might temporarily cause your pores to appear smaller, but it will also damage your skin. The same warning applies to harsh toners containing lots of alcohol; they temporarily make the pores appear smaller by creating irritation which causes the skin surrounding the pore to swell, but do more harm than good.

As to whether or not steaming your skin has caused your pores to enlarge, I would think that has more to do with hormones than anything else.

How do you know if something is irritating the skin? I guess I should stop steaming. How does hormones lead to big pores? I've read that as you grow older, your pores lose elasticity so they become bigger. Is it true?

Thank you for all your help Snow Queen. I think i might try out the paulas choice Salicylic acid and see if maybe i get better reults with that. Also, i think the paulas choice gel moisturizer is alright so far, i used it for the first full day today and ive never had my face stay the un-oily, normally throughout the day my face gets oily around my t-zone and nose, it stayed very nice today.

You said to try the dove sensitive skin moisturizer if i needed one that was more emoilent, i was actually wondering, would any of the other paulas choice moisturizers work just as well, specifically the HydraLight Moisture-Infusing Lotion or the Skin Recovery Moisturizer? thanks

I am interested in the Paula's Choice products, but after reviewing the ingredients of the cleansers and some other products of theirs some of the main ingredients are listed as irritants. Why are Paula's Choice products suggested, if their main ingredients are also irritants (odium Laureth Sulfate for example)?

I am looking to build a good regime based on products that do not contain harsh irritants.

Looking for some help, thanks.

faeriedust said:

How do you know if something is irritating the skin? I guess I should stop steaming. How does hormones lead to big pores? I've read that as you grow older, your pores lose elasticity so they become bigger. Is it true?

This article talks about a new laser treatment which works to reduce enlarged pores by triggering collagen production (lack of collagen results in loss of skin elasticity):

[Removed link]

So based on that I would say that yes, loss of skin elasticity can make the pores appear larger.

I also found this:

Anything that attracts attention or expands the natural shape of pores magnifies their appearance. Genetics may certainly be to blame. Barely visible on those prone to drier skin, individuals with oily, thicker (glabrous) skin tend to have larger looking, more noticeable pores.

Sun damage is another cause. As we age, one of the ways sun damage affects the skin is through the enlargement of the pores. Sun damage and aging cause the epidermis to thicken and a rim of cells are more likely to collect around individual pores. While microscopic, these rings exaggerate pore diameter.

Pores may be more visible simply due to lack of good skin grooming and poor exfoliation. Too much surface oil and remnant naturally shed skin cells can collect around the edges of pores, creating the illusion of the pores being larger than they really are.

[Removed link]

*Although the previous source provides good information about the causes of enlarged pores, it also goes on to say that the pores can be "drawn" closed, which is misleading. Pores cannot open or close because there is no muscle wall around them to allow them to do so. However, the skin surrounding the pore, when irritated, can swell, but the effects are temporary and not worth the damage to the skin.

Hormones control oil production, and enlarged pores are often associated with oily skin.

The problem with irritation is that you can't always tell it's happening (just like you can't always feel the damage UVA rays do to the skin). The skin experiences irritation on a regular basis, even from products I recommend (like exfoliants, since the exfoliation process inevitably produces some irritation). Irritants that I feel should be avoided are those that 1) have no conclusive research as to their benefits for live human skin or 2) those that have benefits, but can be easily replaced by other less-irritating ingredients/treatments.

And yes, your skin would be better off in the longrun if you stopped steaming it.