AcneSolution... SO RIGHT....

Why pay that much - when for the same price you can own a device that can help your skin instead of continual aggrivation both Phsyically & Emotionally...

I bought the DERMA-WAND..

Sounds so similar to what you've explained ... Only that this one acts with the current & sends out rapid tiny vibrations or shock waves.

But benefits are all similar to Medibeam...

Jade Phoenix said:

I Googled the Wood's Lamp (which is what I should have done to begin with, sorry ) and it does sound like what the esthetician used! Thin skin is... bad, right? How would you tell the difference?

Thin skin tends to be more reactive than thicker skin. It can be genetic, part of the aging process, etc...

Jade Phoenix said:

The_Snow_Queen said:

Unfortunately samples must be purchased now; Paula doesn't include them with each order or allow customers to request them for free from customer service anymore. They're really inexpensive, though I kind of like how it was before better.

Ahhh okay. No biggie, thanks. I just ordered a couple of samples each for the 1% BHA gel, 2% BHA gel, and the balancing moisturiser; I've heard that you only need to use a little and they last a bit?

The samples can last a while if you use them conservatively, but I really don't recommend doing so. It won't hurt you, but once opened they can't be reclosed (unless Paula's changed her sample product packaging; I haven't gotten samples in a while), which means that they won't necessarily work as intended because some of the ingredients are sensitive to air and light exposure. A sample, for the most part, is to determine whether or not you like a product's consitancy, have any sort of negative reaction from it, how practical it is for you to use.... They're not usually intended to see what kind of results you can expect from them. Paula has a good return policy, and you can return open/used products within sixty days of purchase.

[Removed link]

Hi Snow Queen

 

I've just skimmed through your thread, and WOW, you really know your stuff. Anyway, I'm a 15 year old girl and I have mostly red mosquito like bumps and whitheads. I want to know if my routine below is good enough:

 

Cleanse: Purpose cleansing gel

Exfoliate:Paula's choice 2% BHA

Medicate:Paula's choice blemish fighting solutions 2.5 bp

Moisturize/protect:Neutrogena Active Breathable Sunblocks /Dove lotion

 

I'd like to know if a toner is necessary or helpful. If so,after what product do I use it? Which is better the Nivea or the Paula's choice toner?

 

Lastly I'd like to know how much time to wait between using each product.

 

Thanks

 

Did you overlook my question- or did I ask really n00bish obvious questions? If it's the latter, I'm sorry. *hands head*

 

No, sorry, I didn't see your questions. To answer your questions, 1) your regimen looks good (make sure you apply lotion before sunscreen or sunscreen by itself, otherwise you can dilute the sunscreen's protection; also only apply moisturizer to areas of dry skin) and 2) toners are not necessary but they can be helpful. Toners can be an extra-cleansing step, can soothe the skin, and can add some of the same beneficial ingredients to areas of oily skin found in moisturizers (like antioxidants and cell-communicating ingredients) without actually applying a moisturizer and risking more clogged pores. Paula's Choice makes the better toner but Nivea's is OK.

You don't need to wait too long in between applying products; if it feels like you can't wipe away the product, then go ahead and apply the next one. If you're having problems with sensitivity, you might like to wait fifteen minutes to a half hour in between applying the cleanser and salicylic acid and the salicylic acid and benzoyl peroxide.

Again, sorry for not having seen your question.

Ahhhhhh.....So, SnowQueen...You ARE an esthetician?? Or you're in school for it now? I thought you must have some kind of training and a real passion for skin for all the research and info I've seen you post.

I would like to say to all that there ARE estheticians out there who will recommend inexpensive over the counter products to clients should they be unable to purchase the more expensive products they may carry. The thing is, when you choose to work with a particular skin care company (hopefully because you have researched all others TO DEATH and found this particular line to be the best for you and your clients) a good company provides extensive training. You get to know your products inside and out and the best way to use them for different skin types and conditions. So many feel MOST comfortable recommending these products. Although I believe professionals in this field SHOULD make every effort to learn about ALL options (including drugstore brands) for their clients it is hard to keep up with all that is out there. We don't have access to the ph levels of all these drugstore products and the percentages of their active ingredients the way we do with the product line we choose to carry, and you know that can be even more important than just looking at the ingredient list. I have a Paula's 'Don't go to the..." on my shelf to help with that somewhat but even she can't keep up with ALL the companies and reformulations out there.

There are good professional products and there are bad just like with drugstore products. I make every effort to give my clients all their options. And if I tell a client a particular drugstore product is no good, it's because I do have access to not only the ingredient list, but these ph levels, percentages of ingredients, as well as the proof on their skin that this product is not working for them.

Just so you all know that not all estheticians are greedy salespeople and that there are many reasons aside from a commission why one may recommend a pro product over drugstore skin care.

Regardless of the brand of products....The best thing an esty can help you do with your breakouts is first: Determine the cause of the breakout...it's different causes or combinations of causes for different people whether it be emotional or physical stress, hormones, poor product choice, harsh skin care, on and on... MOST people just don't know enough to determine this by themselves. Second: Once you understand WHY you're breaking out, you can then determine the correct treatment and prevention plan. They can also determine when it is a good idea to refine the plan. You're skin is not the same every day, week, month, season...things change and it must be treated accordingly.

Thanks for your outlook, and it makes me glad to know that there are good estheticians around. I'm going to school to become an esthetian (most of what I know is self-taught; learning how to treat my acne created a passion for skincare which in turn led me to look into becoming an esthetician), but I've become increasingly disappointed with what I've seen of the industry thus far. Many of the claims the instructors have been making are contradicted by research or are sometimes even contradictary to themselves, and there's no arguing with what the instructors teach because they have an esthetician's license and therefore must know more about skincare than some no-name nineteen-year-old student. I'm not really sure what I'm going to do now; I'll think about that after I get my license (though I'm seriously considering going back to college).

Oh boy, tell me about it. You know though, the best esty's are the ones who DO go out and learn on their own. So you're well on your way. There are some good instructors out there but most esty's school experiences have been...mmm..less than desireable. A lot of instructors don't know any better. You wanna be good, it's up to you. A lot of the good ones get fed up with the spa or employee/boss relationship and find rooms to rent where they can be their own boss....do things their own way. Some salons, massage therapy offices, and even gyms have space they rent to esty's. Sounds to me like you DO know more than your instructors. There's a lot of advanced training courses out there you'd probably enjoy more once you get your license. Also a lot of good videos and books. Much better than that old Milady's. Keep up the good work!

Guess few are like Doctors.. (?)

Spent 1/2 my TEENAGE yr's trying to seek a good DERM...inwhich they only put me on costly roller-coaster & unnecessary application's either topically or interally... like a ginny-pig.

Used to read alot in magazines,self-help books .. 'Infact I owe a few of my own...not to mention NUTRITIONAL & well-being (HEALTH) books...

LET ME ADD I've ANOTHER HEALTH ISSUE **(WOMAN's). Saw a specialist regarding the matter.. - I would of thought he could've been at least considerate or compansionate about going HOLISTIC.. he was Totally AGAINST it..(LAUGHED & MOCKED THE IDEA) but, I was terrified going under the knife..........

- Today I take a TEA BLEND and feel GREAT... don't have the symptons as before.. may ad it was all self-taught and by searching for this remedy via INTERNET..-

Why is it Doctors laugh at even the slighest hint or suggestion about other healing methods? Is cause they don't want anyone to try the more NATURAL approach?

Anyway through trial & erra we (I) learn - Never to rely nor TRUST another DOCTOR much again, to seek the issue. (ACNE) IN RETROSPECT PROBABLY COULD OF SUED HER!!!!!!

WHY? Because I WORKED for a doctor inwhich he wanted me to schedule an appointment w/ his "CO-WORKER".( A SKIN SPECIALIST)..and because once I was at a DERM inwhich terrified the day lites from me... not to mention she picked my face w/ this object/instument (PIK) , made my skin bleed and left me w/ a tiny SCAR..... but very unnoticeble.

Did seek one or two afterwards ... but to no-avail ... Stuck to the antiboitics and got through it somehow...

Let me tell you... It wasn't EASY... - And becasue of those that don't know, or perform a POOR Quality in issues when they are in the position to provide comfort or HEALING .and PROFESSIONAL aid..folks like me just shun off.

So I taught myself. - and today - I'm free and clear of ACNE..and have been for years now..... Thank Goodness for Self-Help Books and INTERNET now.

PS } I agree to the part where you wrote - Skin isn't the same, weekly, monthly.. may add YEARLY... SKIN changes via HORMONES, intake of SUGARS or SPICY foods or reactions to such acids or alcohol even wheather (vacations) or HUMIDITY etc.... When I have champagne even to this day... more than 1 glass.. I will BREAK OUT....

Glad I know MY Own skin veryyyy WELL , NEVER EVER need to seek consultation nor advice from anyone ANYMORE ~ When you get complimented that skin looks almost like PORCELINE... YOUR DOING SOMETHING RIGHT!!!

Oh boy, tell me about it. You know though, the best esty's are the ones who DO go out and learn on their own. So you're well on your way. There are some good instructors out there but most esty's school experiences have been...mmm..less than desireable. A lot of instructors don't know any better. You wanna be good, it's up to you. A lot of the good ones get fed up with the spa or employee/boss relationship and find rooms to rent where they can be their own boss....do things their own way. Some salons, massage therapy offices, and even gyms have space they rent to esty's. Sounds to me like you DO know more than your instructors. There's a lot of advanced training courses out there you'd probably enjoy more once you get your license. Also a lot of good videos and books. Much better than that old Milady's. Keep up the good work!

Thanks for your input. It really makes me feel a lot better and more confident.

Aloetta,

I'm glad you've finally figured out what works for you. It is terrible though that you had to deal with it as many years as you did. I understand you're perspective on docs. I, as well as many others, have been there. I was continually disappointed and discouraged with the advice (or lack of) my family md and dermatologists who are supposed to have specialized training in skin issues could offer. While there are good ones out there, I feel all too often someone makes an appointment and walks out with a prescription for one thing or another without having been asked about all the things that really affect what goes on with our skin. It's no wonder these prescriptions alone don't work for so many people. There are so many other factors to consider. I remember walking out with a script for Retin-A after being laughed at by the doc (because she didn't think my breakouts were bad) and NO, ZERO instructions on how to use it or what to expect. So I continued doing everything wrong without knowing it and had no idea the peelies and redness was a 'normal' effect of the retin-A...or that you can't spot treat with it, or use bp at the same time....nothing. Ugh! And the fact that she laughed at me and didn't take me seriously......?Talk about leaving a bad taste in your mouth. So, I understand where you're coming from, I'm glad you've found success and have been able to teach yourself how to care for your skin. There are many people out there who don't know what to do. They don't know where to look for the information, or when they do they find so much conflicting info that they don't know what to do with it. I am still continually surprised by how little so many people know about their skin. When you've studied it and spent so much time learning about it you forget about how little you knew in the beginning too. So these are the people I hope to help. To teach them how to care for their skin for life. And I hope they find me before they give up or are too discouraged by any bad experiences.

THx QuitPick..

Years YEAH..you BET....

None of these teens would believe any word of what I have gone through as a Teen-ager- but YOU, you have summed it up...THANK U for understanding...

I have tried to post a few of my own miricales or blessings inwhich worked for me and inwhich I've achieved FULL success with (as a result no acne-* no THNX to DOCTORS) - and truly.. I am soooooooooo HAPPY... I don't have to suffer anymore in ways I had before which was dreadfull- ..

If any need any advice inwhich I may help.. I will be happy to assist ... (even YOU QUICKY)

Thank you also, for your INPUT and letting OTHERS know- it isn't an EASY battle even w/ all the MEDICATIONS given, or DOCTORS seeked.....

I'm just sooooooooo GLAD I don't have to go there anymore - Best of Luck~ xoxox

Yay! You made my day Thanks for that.

THANK you! & YVW

Best of Luck!!!....

SEEMS LIKE EVERYTHING YOU SHOULDNT DO.

QuicPic...^ Could of made your DAY if your ACNE vanished like mines

OMG... wasn't aware SNOWQUEEN started this THREAD.. HAHA....

How Ironic.....

I used PATCHOULI in the past and it ALWAYS worked for me...

I agree Lemongrass can be irritant (very Powerful) for sensative skins types....

I use WITCH-Hazel...... WORKS for ME

SEEMS LIKE EVERYTHING YOU SHOULDNT DO.

If you read the first post of this thread all the way through you should have seen a section designed to help users buld their own regimens.

Aloetta said:

QuicPic...^ Could of made your DAY if your ACNE vanished like mines

OMG... wasn't aware SNOWQUEEN started this THREAD.. HAHA....

How Ironic.....

I used PATCHOULI in the past and it ALWAYS worked for me...

I agree Lemongrass can be irritant (very Powerful) for sensative skins types....

I use WITCH-Hazel...... WORKS for ME

Here's a quote about witch hazel from Paula Begoun's Ingredient Dictionary (with sources cited):

Witch Hazel: Can have potent antioxidant properties (Sources: Phytotherapy Research, June 2002, pages 364,367; and Journal of Dermatological Science, July 1995, pages 25,34) and some anti-irritant properties (Source: Skin Pharmacology and Applied Skin Physiology, March-April 2002, pages 125,132). However, according to the Consumer‚„s Dictionary of Cosmetic Ingredients, Fifth Edition, Ruth Winter, 1995, Random House), ‚Å“Witch hazel can have an ethanol [alcohol] content of 70 to 80 percent. Witch hazel water ‚¦ contains 15% ethanol. The alcohol can be an irritant. Witch hazel also has a high tannin content (and tannin is a potent antioxidant), which can also be irritating when used repeatedly on skin, though when used for initial swelling from burns it can reduce inflammation.

Patchouli is derived from mint and often used as a fragrance; I really don't recommend putting it on the skin.

Also, just because your skin doesn't show any immediate signs of irritation doesn't mean that damage hasn't taken place; much like UVA rays (which are not primarily associated with burning or tanning but rather with premature aging and skin cancer), irritation isn't always noticed at first. If you use skin irritants repeatedly on the skin that damage adds up over time. (Source: Skin Research and Technology, November 2001, pages 227-237).

THX.. SnowQ...

I didn't need to absorb "ALL" THREADS through.. as I don't need ADVISE...have learned from past experience..

Anyway, as mentioned in previous posts - (other TOPICS)

My skin is CLEAR and was just responding to the top common issue (PAGE) as well as stating some input on issues others might have "EXPEIENCE" (since that was the TITLE).... (?)

Besides I havn't found one w/ so many pages as this one topic, up to now... as I'm still NEW .. but really don't need to use this site either, nor read EVERYTHING .. cause I'm not seeking assistance, just trying to help others who shared the same issues ...THX ANYWAY!!

Are you Suggesting something from cutting & pasting my quotes?.... You of all ppl should be AWARE that what works for some dosn't WORK for others....

I think your implying that my SKIN Hasn't cured or SOMETHING?????? WHAT GIVES? I have been cleared of ACNE for YEARS... not WEEKS, MONTHS or DAYS...

I USE ALOE, ZINC amoungest other SKIN PROTECTANTS...

Certain makeup contian UV BLOCKS. ... (my study paid off)

THX.. SnowQ...

 

I didn't need to absorb "ALL" THREADS through.. as I don't need ADVISE...have learned from past experience..

Anyway, as mentioned in previous posts - (other TOPICS)

 

My skin is CLEAR and was just responding to the top common issue (PAGE) as well as stating some input on issues others might have expereniced...

 

Besides I havn't found one w/ so many pages as this one topic, up to now... as I'm still NEW .. but really don't need to use this site either, nor read EVERYTHING .. cause I'm not seeking assistance, just trying to help others who shared the same issues ...THX ANYWAY!!

 

Are you Suggesting something from cutting & pasting my quotes?.... You of all ppl should be AWARE that what works for some dosn't WORK for others....

 

I think your implying that my SKIN Hasn't cured or SOMETHING?????? WHAT GIVES? I have been cleared of ACNE for YEARS... not WEEKS, MONTHS or DAYS...

 

I USE ALOE, ZINC amoungest other SKIN PROTECTANTS...

Makeup also has UV BLOCKS.

I always respond to posts on this thread by quoting the post I'm responding to. That way, readers know whom and what I am addressing. I'm glad you're clear and don't doubt you are; I just disagree with some of the information you've provided and felt obligated to respond with my viewpoint. I do agree that what works for one person won't work for everyone; I base my conclusions on what is written by medical sources.

The_Snow_Queen said:

Aloetta said:

QuicPic...^ Could of made your DAY if your ACNE vanished like mines

OMG... wasn't aware SNOWQUEEN started this THREAD.. HAHA....

How Ironic.....

I used PATCHOULI in the past and it ALWAYS worked for me...

I agree Lemongrass can be irritant (very Powerful) for sensative skins types....

I use WITCH-Hazel...... WORKS for ME

Here's a quote about witch hazel from Paula Begoun's Ingredient Dictionary (with sources cited):

Witch Hazel: Can have potent antioxidant properties (Sources: Phytotherapy Research, June 2002, pages 364,367; and Journal of Dermatological Science, July 1995, pages 25,34) and some anti-irritant properties (Source: Skin Pharmacology and Applied Skin Physiology, March-April 2002, pages 125,132). However, according to the Consumer„s Dictionary of Cosmetic Ingredients, Fifth Edition, Ruth Winter, 1995, Random House), Witch hazel can have an ethanol [alcohol] content of 70 to 80 percent. Witch hazel water  contains 15% ethanol. The alcohol can be an irritant. Witch hazel also has a high tannin content (and tannin is a potent antioxidant), which can also be irritating when used repeatedly on skin, though when used for initial swelling from burns it can reduce inflammation.

Patchouli is derived from mint and often used as a fragrance; I really don't recommend putting it on the skin.

Also, just because your skin doesn't show any immediate signs of irritation doesn't mean that damage hasn't taken place; much like UVA rays (which are not primarily associated with burning or tanning but rather with premature aging and skin cancer), irritation isn't always noticed at first. If you use skin irritants repeatedly on the skin that damage adds up over time. (Source: Skin Research and Technology, November 2001, pages 227,237).

Commercially bought witch hazel (i.e. at Target, drugstore, etc.) is distilled, and therefore has a very, very low tannin percentage. A witch hazel decoction - made from witch hazel bark and boiling water has a considerable levels of tannins.

And tannins aren't bad things:

Quote

Systematics and health effects of chemically distinct tannins in medicinal plants.

Okuda T.

Okayama University, Tsushima, Okayama 700-8530, Japan. [email protected]

The research began with an investigation of tannins from traditional medicinal plants and resulted in isolation and structure determination of hundreds of ellagitannins and dehydroellagitannins, as well as their oligomers and oxidized derivatives with various structures specific to each plant species. These polyphenols have been classified according to the stage of oxidative structural transformation and oligomerization, into types I-IV and I+ to IV+, etc. Parallels were found between their oxidative transformations and plant evolution. They were also classified by the linkage units between the monomers, into DOG, GOD, GOG and DOGOD types (D=Diphenoyl, G=Galloyl, O=Oxygen), etc. Besides their fundamental activities, e.g., reduction and anti-peroxidation properties, remarkable biological and pharmacological activities of various potencies have also been found, including, amongst others, inhibition of lipid-peroxidation, mutagenicity of carcinogens and tumor promotion, host-mediated antitumor effects specific to particular tannin structures, antiviral activity and potentiation of antibacterial activity.

link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...p;dopt=Abstract

I have never seen a witch hazel product with a concentration of alcohol higher than 16%. To remove the alcohol in a commercial preparation, you simply boil the distillation for 2 minutes or so. Witch Hazel has been safely and effectively used for thousands of years. Selected tidbits from a wide array of various sources don't undo it's beneficial history.

Great, wasn't trying to oppose YOUR viewpoints...But rather in essences trying to broaden some fact's, perhaps from MY stand of perception & personal EXERIENCE.. (SNOW)

sorry you disagreed to some of my applications -

But hey, there are others that don't benefit from using certain perscribed (commercialed) nor professional methods.

^^ Ayla thx ... I have 2 Witch Hazel BRANDS & STOCKED my cuboard (as they benefit not only my oily skin but also other HELATH AILMENTS). One I don't know HOW Much Percentage of Alcohol it contains..- but use it sparingly...

Other contains less than 8%... I believe 6....

**Alcohol also used FULL PERCENT (100% ) alone is a GRAVE MISTAKE (another WAKE UP CALL)... there are various levels of it and perhaps that is also a MAJOR ISSUE***

Perhaps the Alcohol percentage "content" included in these brands are milder or potent. MIGHT hold TRUE on the EO's (WATERED DOWN).. (?)

ayla said:

The_Snow_Queen said:

Aloetta said:

QuicPic...^ Could of made your DAY if your ACNE vanished like mines

OMG... wasn't aware SNOWQUEEN started this THREAD.. HAHA....

How Ironic.....

I used PATCHOULI in the past and it ALWAYS worked for me...

I agree Lemongrass can be irritant (very Powerful) for sensative skins types....

I use WITCH-Hazel...... WORKS for ME

Here's a quote about witch hazel from Paula Begoun's Ingredient Dictionary (with sources cited):

Witch Hazel: Can have potent antioxidant properties (Sources: Phytotherapy Research, June 2002, pages 364,367; and Journal of Dermatological Science, July 1995, pages 25,34) and some anti-irritant properties (Source: Skin Pharmacology and Applied Skin Physiology, March-April 2002, pages 125,132). However, according to the Consumer„s Dictionary of Cosmetic Ingredients, Fifth Edition, Ruth Winter, 1995, Random House), Witch hazel can have an ethanol [alcohol] content of 70 to 80 percent. Witch hazel water contains 15% ethanol. The alcohol can be an irritant. Witch hazel also has a high tannin content (and tannin is a potent antioxidant), which can also be irritating when used repeatedly on skin, though when used for initial swelling from burns it can reduce inflammation.

Patchouli is derived from mint and often used as a fragrance; I really don't recommend putting it on the skin.

Also, just because your skin doesn't show any immediate signs of irritation doesn't mean that damage hasn't taken place; much like UVA rays (which are not primarily associated with burning or tanning but rather with premature aging and skin cancer), irritation isn't always noticed at first. If you use skin irritants repeatedly on the skin that damage adds up over time. (Source: Skin Research and Technology, November 2001, pages 227-237).

Commercially bought witch hazel (i.e. at Target, drugstore, etc.) is distilled, and therefore has a very, very low tannin percentage. A witch hazel decoction - made from witch hazel bark and boiling water has a considerable levels of tannins.

And tannins aren't bad things:

Quote

Systematics and health effects of chemically distinct tannins in medicinal plants.

Okuda T.

Okayama University, Tsushima, Okayama 700-8530, Japan. [email protected]

The research began with an investigation of tannins from traditional medicinal plants and resulted in isolation and structure determination of hundreds of ellagitannins and dehydroellagitannins, as well as their oligomers and oxidized derivatives with various structures specific to each plant species. These polyphenols have been classified according to the stage of oxidative structural transformation and oligomerization, into types I-IV and I+ to IV+, etc. Parallels were found between their oxidative transformations and plant evolution. They were also classified by the linkage units between the monomers, into DOG, GOD, GOG and DOGOD types (D=Diphenoyl, G=Galloyl, O=Oxygen), etc. Besides their fundamental activities, e.g., reduction and anti-peroxidation properties, remarkable biological and pharmacological activities of various potencies have also been found, including, amongst others, inhibition of lipid-peroxidation, mutagenicity of carcinogens and tumor promotion, host-mediated antitumor effects specific to particular tannin structures, antiviral activity and potentiation of antibacterial activity.

link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...p;dopt=Abstract

I have never seen a witch hazel product with a concentration of alcohol higher than 16%. To remove the alcohol in a commercial preparation, you simply boil the distillation for 2 minutes or so. Witch Hazel has been safely and effectively used for thousands of years. Selected tidbits from a wide array of various sources don't undo it's beneficial history.

Thanks for your input, but the alcohol content of the witch hazel I see sold in stores (usually around 14%) can still be a problem. Most people aren't going to take the time to boil their witch hazel and then let it cool down; they just apply it directly to their skin. In high concentrations tannin can be irritating when used repeatedly, as my above source states. I may have overlooked it, but the link you posted didn't seem to address the irritation issue specifically.

Wow.. 16 &/or 14%.... ?

I bought mines at HY & Zels.... I'm in CDA...

Perhaps there in the U.S. the brands are more potent?

I bought the cheapest BRAND at $1.99... and contains 6% of Alcohol...

the other BRAND also made in CDA.. w/ no ALCOHOL percent indicated but there is ALCOHOL >> Deoionized Water, SD Alcohol, Witch Hazel, Distilled (extract)...... that was at the dollar store...

Hy & Zel's also had other assortments ** BRANDS** of WitchHzl (costly though).. but I just got that one to try.. and used it ever since..

My 1st experience with WITCH HAZEL was with one I purchased in the U.S. at - 99 cents (2004-05).

The_Snow_Queen said:

ayla said:

The_Snow_Queen said:

Aloetta said:

QuicPic...^ Could of made your DAY if your ACNE vanished like mines

OMG... wasn't aware SNOWQUEEN started this THREAD.. HAHA....

How Ironic.....

I used PATCHOULI in the past and it ALWAYS worked for me...

I agree Lemongrass can be irritant (very Powerful) for sensative skins types....

I use WITCH-Hazel...... WORKS for ME

Here's a quote about witch hazel from Paula Begoun's Ingredient Dictionary (with sources cited):

Witch Hazel: Can have potent antioxidant properties (Sources: Phytotherapy Research, June 2002, pages 364,367; and Journal of Dermatological Science, July 1995, pages 25,34) and some anti-irritant properties (Source: Skin Pharmacology and Applied Skin Physiology, March-April 2002, pages 125,132). However, according to the Consumers Dictionary of Cosmetic Ingredients, Fifth Edition, Ruth Winter, 1995, Random House), Witch hazel can have an ethanol [alcohol] content of 70 to 80 percent. Witch hazel water contains 15% ethanol. The alcohol can be an irritant. Witch hazel also has a high tannin content (and tannin is a potent antioxidant), which can also be irritating when used repeatedly on skin, though when used for initial swelling from burns it can reduce inflammation.

Patchouli is derived from mint and often used as a fragrance; I really don't recommend putting it on the skin.

Also, just because your skin doesn't show any immediate signs of irritation doesn't mean that damage hasn't taken place; much like UVA rays (which are not primarily associated with burning or tanning but rather with premature aging and skin cancer), irritation isn't always noticed at first. If you use skin irritants repeatedly on the skin that damage adds up over time. (Source: Skin Research and Technology, November 2001, pages 227,237).

Commercially bought witch hazel (i.e. at Target, drugstore, etc.) is distilled, and therefore has a very, very low tannin percentage. A witch hazel decoction - made from witch hazel bark and boiling water has a considerable levels of tannins.

And tannins aren't bad things:

Quote

Systematics and health effects of chemically distinct tannins in medicinal plants.

Okuda T.

Okayama University, Tsushima, Okayama 700-8530, Japan. [email protected]

The research began with an investigation of tannins from traditional medicinal plants and resulted in isolation and structure determination of hundreds of ellagitannins and dehydroellagitannins, as well as their oligomers and oxidized derivatives with various structures specific to each plant species. These polyphenols have been classified according to the stage of oxidative structural transformation and oligomerization, into types I-IV and I+ to IV+, etc. Parallels were found between their oxidative transformations and plant evolution. They were also classified by the linkage units between the monomers, into DOG, GOD, GOG and DOGOD types (D=Diphenoyl, G=Galloyl, O=Oxygen), etc. Besides their fundamental activities, e.g., reduction and anti-peroxidation properties, remarkable biological and pharmacological activities of various potencies have also been found, including, amongst others, inhibition of lipid-peroxidation, mutagenicity of carcinogens and tumor promotion, host-mediated antitumor effects specific to particular tannin structures, antiviral activity and potentiation of antibacterial activity.

link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...p;dopt=Abstract

I have never seen a witch hazel product with a concentration of alcohol higher than 16%. To remove the alcohol in a commercial preparation, you simply boil the distillation for 2 minutes or so. Witch Hazel has been safely and effectively used for thousands of years. Selected tidbits from a wide array of various sources don't undo it's beneficial history.

Thanks for your input, but the alcohol content of the witch hazel I see sold in stores (usually around 14%) can still be a problem. Most people aren't going to take the time to boil their witch hazel and then let it cool down; they just apply it directly to their skin. In high concentrations tannin can be irritating when used repeatedly, as my above source states. I may have overlooked it, but the link you posted didn't seem to address the irritation issue specifically.

Paula used extremes to source her viewpoint, and extremes are not the norm. My post absolutely disputes the validity of Paula's opinion. Her 'definition' states that tannins are high in Witch Hazel, and that tannins can be an irritant. It also so states that alcohol can be 70-80%, and that alcohol can be an irritant. Neither of these statements is generally true. Generally, people buy a commercial distilled preparation of witch hazel containing 86% Witch Hazel and 14% alcohol. A distilled preperation contains virtually no tannins. For a small, very small portion of people 14% alcohol will cause problems. Most people are not bothered by 14% ethanol, MOST people are bothered by 20% and up concentrations of ISOPROPYL alcohol, which is a completely modified form. It has additives in it including acetone, which is extremely irritating. The amount of tannins is so low, they are negligible at best. A home made decocotion or infusion would provide these tannins in high concentration, most people are not making witch hazel themselves. And as I posted above - tannins aren't necessarily a bad thing.

We, as a collective people, have been using witch hazel for thousands of years without issue. One popular woman makes a red herring of a statement, and people believe it to be accurate because they are mislead by the 'facts' not in point with the actual issue. You shouldn't believe absolutely everything Paula says. Yes, some of her advice is helpful, but then again, just as much is not.

Snow Queen,

I looked up the Nivea product (Nivea for Men Energizing Face Scrub) you recommended and saw that it contains Sodium Laureth Sulfate, which is one of the ingredients you said we should avoid. (Well, I've been told that is the same as Sodium Lauryl Sulfate)

Do you have any thoughts on this product I found today? It contains Alcohol Denat, so that would be the immediate negative..

L'Oreal Paris Men's Expert: Hydra-Energetic Anti-Stress & Fatigue All-in-One Moisturizer (SPF 15)

(they advertise it to help with flakes)

I couldn't find it online, so here are the ingredients off the box:

Active: Ensulizole 2.0%, Octinoxate 7.5%

Inactive: Water, Alcohol Denat, Glycerin, Cyclopentasiloxane, Isohexadecane, Cetearyl Ethylhexanoate, Ammonium Polyacryloyldimethyl Taurate, Triethanolamine, Polymethyl Methacrylate, HDI/Trimethylol Hexyllactone Crosspolymer, Carpylyl Glycol, PEG/PPG-18/18 Dimethicone, Tocopherol, Isopropyl Myristate, Caffeine, Ascorbyl Glucoside, Mentha Piperita (Peppermint) Leaf Extract, Menthol, Sodium Cirtrate, Methylparaben, Blue 1, Fragrance, Limonene, Linalool

(It says on the back that Vitamin C and Caffeine are known to energize and to provide a healthy skin complexion. Vitamin E, a natural anti-oxidant, is known to protect against external aggressions and to help maintain healthy looking skin.)

toughshaving said:

Snow Queen,

I looked up the Nivea product (Nivea for Men Energizing Face Scrub) you recommended and saw that it contains Sodium Laureth Sulfate, which is one of the ingredients you said we should avoid. (Well, I've been told that is the same as Sodium Lauryl Sulfate)

Do you have any thoughts on this product I found today? It contains Alcohol Denat, so that would be the immediate negative..

L'Oreal Paris Men's Expert: Hydra-Energetic Anti-Stress & Fatigue All-in-One Moisturizer (SPF 15)

(they advertise it to help with flakes)

I couldn't find it online, so here are the ingredients off the box:

Active: Ensulizole 2.0%, Octinoxate 7.5%

Inactive: Water, Alcohol Denat, Glycerin, Cyclopentasiloxane, Isohexadecane, Cetearyl Ethylhexanoate, Ammonium Polyacryloyldimethyl Taurate, Triethanolamine, Polymethyl Methacrylate, HDI/Trimethylol Hexyllactone Crosspolymer, Carpylyl Glycol, PEG/PPG-18/18 Dimethicone, Tocopherol, Isopropyl Myristate, Caffeine, Ascorbyl Glucoside, Mentha Piperita (Peppermint) Leaf Extract, Menthol, Sodium Cirtrate, Methylparaben, Blue 1, Fragrance, Limonene, Linalool

(It says on the back that Vitamin C and Caffeine are known to energize and to provide a healthy skin complexion. Vitamin E, a natural anti-oxidant, is known to protect against external aggressions and to help maintain healthy looking skin.)

Sodium laureth sulfate and sodium lauryl sulfate are two different surfectants; sodium lauryl sulfate is harsh and sodium laureth sulfate is not. Here's an article that you might find interesting; it addresses some of the concerns users may have about the two surfectants:

[Removed link]

I don't recommend the daily moisturizer you asked about for a few reasons. First, it doesn't offer broad-spectrum protection (ensulizole offers some UVA protection, but not enough to stand alone as the only UVA-protecting ingredient), which means you won't be adequately protected against UVA rays. Second, it contains numerous irritants like alcohol denat as the second ingredient, peppermint, and menthol (the last two are what gives this product a tingling sensation when applied to the skin).

Only buy sunscreens which contain at least one of these ingredients: titanium dioxide, zinc oxide, avobenzone, mexoryl sx, and tinosorb. If the sunscreen does not contain one or more of these ingredients, it is not broad-spectrum and shouldn't be relied upon for sun protection.

^^

Aloetta was using and addressing a commercially prepared hamamalis water, to give her information regarding another product would also be misleading.

Ayla, Correct, Commercial (HAMAMALIS WATER PREPARED) Another Choice.. or Observation: GREEN TEA... or PLAIN TEA (as Lipton receommended here)...

They also contain tannins some stronger than others.

TANNINS, people have been applying on faces, aliments, zits, soften hands, or dimish wrinkles..&/or puffiness on eyes.. etc...

Green-Tea also known to hold UV defensive properties on SKIN (Protectant).... has been incorporated to many Lotions or SHAMPOOS...

*USED TEA BAGS..for example, have been known to strengthen HAIR..- perhaps due to the properties in it, as TANNIN's, Bioflav.'s (?)

FACT: Tannins are defensive compounds that counteract bacteria and fungi by interfering with their surface proteins....

FACT: All TANNIN's VARY... - GREEN TEA for example, has a pale yellow color and less complex taste because of a relative absence of Tannins.

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AYLA...

many thanks in defining my point of view on matters pertaining in this subjects (witch hazel) &/or ingredients that have contributed to my success in having achieved a cure. I thought this topic (THREAD) included input from anyone (MISTAKES or what WORKS) as I was only trying lay input and feedback to facts on such self-achievement in HOLISTIC approach success again THANKS!!

PS> Chk'd your Art-work - Great work - awesome TALENT.. Keep up the good work