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Hi,
Quite optimistic to expect 70% improvement. Depends on your scars (ice-pick scars are poor to respond), the number of treatments and the level used.
Generally the consensus from the board and from group studies is results ranging from 40-45% after 5-6 treatments at aggressive settings (>20mJ and 10+ passes per treatment).
I am skeptical of people getting more than 50% unless all their scars are shallow to being with. A realistic goal is to expect around 40% improvement at the end of the treatment. If you feel that this justifies the cost and down time then by all means go for it.
In my case I paid $1700 for 5 treatments in Melb, Aus and because of the aggressive treatment I am seeing results. So far 4 weeks after my 3rd treatment I have seen 15% improvement. The main benefit for me is that I have not gotten a single break out of cystic acne since I started treatment 3 months ago! Some how fraxel shrinks the sebacous glands and reduces oil production.
I agree with BillyBoy in the sense that each treatment only covers 17-20% of the skin so 5 treatments at least would be required. 8 treatments at high intensity would probably give good results I imagine. Something like -
Level x Density x Passes
1st - 20 x 125 x 6
2nd - 22 x 125 x 8
3rd - 25 x 125 x 8
4th - 26 x 125 x 10
5th - 26 x 125 x 12
6th - 28 x 125 x 12
7th - 30 x 125 x 12
8th - 30 x 125 x 14
Each treatment would be spaced 4-5 weeks apart. The last 2 treatments would need about 5-6 weeks spacing. Nobody has done 8 treatments at this level, but I reckon it could give 50%+ improvement. It would take close to a year though.
That would be an interesting case study. For most of us, 5 treatments and around 40% improvement is the norm.
Blaster.
Question
) I know a lot of you have had the fraxel laser treatment and I was just curious about numbers. My dr said I cld have up to 70 percent improvement, but of course it is probably just talk... so I am looking for more realistic numbers. Thanks!
Very well could be. Depends on the settings, number of treatments and how your body responds to the treatment.
Like Blaster, I have seen about 15% improvement in scars after 3 Fraxels, but a bigger improvement in texture. I bought a package of 4, but I will add a fifth if the price is ok. While I understand that I will continue to see improvement because collagen rebuilding is a slow process, it is hard to imagine a 70% improvement. I am hoping to get 40%.
Could the whole "percent improvement" thing be a misnomer???
The clinical studies and doctors are probably measuring "percent improvement" by some objective measure (like scar depth, width, #, percentage covering face, etc.). Therefore it would be possible to get 100 percent improvement but still have plenty of scarring. By these measures, and depending on the severity to begin with, to be left with no scars might mean something like a 500 or 1000 percent improvement.
I mean it just doesn't jive: 50-85 percent improvement (as rated by doctors) and 2.2 improvement (rate by patients). More importantly, it contradicts with the results everyone on acne.org has gotten (10-40 percent)--so something must be wrong here.
It be interesting for some people to ask about this at consultation. If the doc tells you "70 percent improvement," pretend to be confused and ask them "is that on a scale where 100 percent means no scars at all?" My guess is they'll back off and say something like "well no, it's impossible to have no scars at all," or "100 percent would be minor superficial scarring" or even "let's not get caught up on percents, it's going to give you a significant improvement." (If they tell you the latter, please tell them not to get caught up on dollars, but you will pay them a significant amount of money!")
I just had my 5th Fraxel treatment on Friday. (full face 17mj) I have to say, I'm fairly encouraged at this point. Today someone at work commented on how good my skin is looking. Although, I had problems with minor (not cystic) breakouts and rashes during the previous 4 treatments and this time I haven't broken out (yet). So my skin is not red and bumpy like it was and that might just be making it look better overall. I'm not sure if my skin is just getting used to the treatments or if the B5 and massive amounts of supplements I'm taking are finally clearing my skin.
I can see definite improvement in most of my scars. I do have two or three deeper pits that show a tiny bit of improvement but not much. However, they warned me that those types of scars do not respond as well to Fraxel. The rest of my face does look much smoother. I had areas that had red kind of web or lace looking scars. I don't know how else to describe it. Those areas looked ok until you pulled the skin flat, and then you could see tiny individual scars. Those areas of superficial scarring have improved the most.
I can't tell percentages. I just think that is too subjective based on the person. But I think that my skin is responding well to the Fraxel. Interestingly, I haven't been getting that pink or 'bronzing' like others have. (Although I do flake like mad). I asked about it and they said that the bronzing is more common in people with sun damage. I have always avoided the sun like the plague because I am so fair and there is a history of skin cancer in my family so that makes sense.
I also asked about the new Sapphire tips. They told me that the new tips are just longer and tapered so that they can get into smaller areas like around the nose and eyes. With the current tips, it is difficult to reach those places. They said that they are not designed for full face use, but could possibly be used for spot treating scars.
Overall, I'm pretty happy I decided to do this. I probably will have as many treatments as I can to see how far the improvement continues.
Widgie
I am really pleased for you. Your success makes me think about having more treatments, but I am also intrigued with trying needling on a 3or 4 deeper scars that I know Fraxel can't fix.
Don't get me wrong, I am not unhappy with my modest Fraxel gains to date, mostly because there is visible improvement with essentially no down side risk, other than time and money. At same time, I don't want others to have unrealistic expectations.
I have sun damage and bronze from the treamtent. I spend a lot of time outdoors and every vacation is at the beach, but I like this look so it does not bother me.
Widgie
I am really pleased for you. Your success makes me think about having more treatments, but I am also intrigued with trying needling on a 3or 4 deeper scars that I know Fraxel can't fix.
Don't get me wrong, I am not unhappy with my modest Fraxel gains to date, mostly because there is visible improvement with essentially no down side risk, other than time and money. At same time, I don't want others to have unrealistic expectations.
I have sun damage and bronze from the treatment. I spend a lot of time outdoors and every vacation is at the beach, but I like this look so it does not bother me.
Thanks billyboy,
I agree about the unrealistic expectations; that's why I was sure to point out that the few deeper scars that I have haven't shown much improvement. I'm also contemplating trying needling on those after I'm done with the Fraxels and my skin is healed. (Don't want to destroy any new collegen).
I also think I should point out that I'm having full face Fraxels. So even the skin that isn't scarred is looking smoother and less red. That combined with the lack of recent breakouts has contributed a great deal to my face looking smoother. That's not to say that the scarring hasn't improved, it definitely has, but it's still there. All of those factors have contributed to 'the big picture' so to speak, and I am much happier with my skin than I was a few months ago.
I am 2 weeks post my second Fraxel. Although I don't have scars my pores are larger than I like and I am seeking overall sun damage & texture improvement. I have my full face neck and chest done each time. My experience with each treatment has been very good improvement to any discoloration and a healthier look to my skin. I think Fraxel treatments will improve any skin that is treated not make it worse.
What does the unscarred skin look like after fraxel??
I'm so scared a full face fraxel will dilate pores or cause complexion issues in normal skin.
I understand your concern, but think about it. If fraxel made normal skin look worse, who on earth would do it. Fraxel was developed & approved for the sun damage and wrinkle crowd, most of whom otherwise have good skin. The acne scar treatment was a secondary development.
After four fraxels, my skin texture is a lot more refined and the condition a lot better. I have always had kind of medium size pores in some areas of my face, they are all smaller now but not gone. Also I have not any breakouts in the last three months, since my last treatment.
Peach Pie
good to hear!
smalller pores? what about ones on nose from blackheads/sebaceous hyperplasia?
Yes, pores on the nose are the most difficult to treat, I don't care what kind of treatment you do, for most people they do not respond well to anything.
I got minimal improvement on pore size on my nose, as I expected, but the surrounding skin on my nose e, looks so much clearer that the result is healthier looking nose skin.
Peachpie
I only just found out about this Fraxel Laser while looking at The View last week.
found this link too:
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:FA1QGM...ca&ct=clnk&cd=1
Any1 know how long it's been around (as I'm only just hearing about it). And how much approx. is the cost per treatment in US a/o CND dollars?
Thanks
Just wanted to check in and say 'Hi, I'm still happy with my Fraxel treatments." 
I asked my Doctor's office for the levels and was told
I'm at 8 passes - some areas are 14 Full density and then 20 half density. I don't know if it's the same area - I'll ask next time. I also asked about "THE TIP" I see you guys talking about. I was told it's for under the eyes. Not sure if they have a new one that they will use on the entire face . But I will be getting that blue dye all the way up to my eyelashes and asking for the new undereye tip. Might as well get every fricking bit of collagen I can get!!
I saw that link someone posted to the news station and I disagree with the way that news station worded tthe Doctor's comment about 'results last 6 years'. I might send them an email and ask them to clarify this, if I remember. 
Liek it or not, I will be 42 in 6 years and I know my face will age. I do NOT believe my skin tone, texture, rough appearance, brown spots and scars will return at 42. At all.
For $5000, rest assured I will hibernate indoors for the next 40 years and away from the outrageous Florida sun and all things bad that come with it...
Sincerely,
Powder
Either I am a multi-tasker or the extra large McDonalds coffee just kicked in at 11PM and I sent the Spa from the interview an email asking them to clarify that 6 year comment. I don't think it's right, that ONE reporter or Spa or Doctor should make a careless comment like that without backing it up. fraxel just got approved by the FDA a few years ago, so why ring fire alarms when there is no fire? 
To paraphrase that article's comment: when the doctor was queastioned about how long resutls last he said something to the effect of "we tend to see patients returning for the same problems in six years."
This article had nothing to do with acne scars. It was completely about wrinkles and sun damage in OLD people. So of course they will be back in six years to take care of crows feet and sun spots. I think the doctor was in south florida too where old people bake in the sun.
Fraxel only came out in 2004. It's impossible that this Dr was using it six years ago! The first tester in San Diego only had it since 2003. therefore his comment is completely based on other treatments in his practice and not fraxel at all.
There is some infor on the reliant site that results can last 10 years, but this based on wrinkling, not scars. Pretty much all the info out there on fraxel is geared towards wrinkles and sun damage. Only in the last year has there been published clinical data on treating scars. And it's all been very positive.
Now they just have to come down on that ridiculous price. I'm not trading my scars for my derm's new boat.
Either I am a multi-tasker or the extra large McDonalds coffee just kicked in at 11PM and I sent the Spa from the interview an email asking them to clarify that 6 year comment. I don't think it's right, that ONE reporter or Spa or Doctor should make a careless comment like that without backing it up. fraxel just got approved by the FDA a few years ago, so why ring fire alarms when there is no fire? 🙁
Annie I have been following your progress through the board and can't tell you how much I appreciate your "Photo-Log". When was your last Fraxel done, how many more will you get and do you have any updated photos you would share? Any new comments on your progress? I have just finished my 2nd and you are helping me see where this might go for me as I continue to get treatments. Thank You!
this sounds pretty encouraging. i realize that 100% improvement is not possible, but most people can get away with mild scarring esp. if overal skin texture is nice.
right now i'm getting YAG laser treatments done in NYC for $700 a pop to stimulate collagen. I have the type of scars that if I stretch the skin just a bit, most are smoothed out. It looks pretty bad though I have to say. I've seen mild improvement, but I wish I'd have gone for Fraxel instead. My doc didn't offer it though and I thought I'd give this a shot.
One thing with all of this: you never know until you try stuff. All of these postings and photos def help, but you really just have to jump in and test treatments out. It is very costly, but to me, it's worth it. I just know that eventually I'll get good results with a combo of stuff.
this sounds pretty encouraging. i realize that 100% improvement is not possible, but most people can get away with mild scarring esp. if overal skin texture is nice.
right now i'm getting YAG laser treatments done in NYC for $700 a pop to stimulate collagen. I have the type of scars that if I stretch the skin just a bit, most are smoothed out. It looks pretty bad though I have to say. I've seen mild improvement, but I wish I'd have gone for Fraxel instead. My doc didn't offer it though and I thought I'd give this a shot.
One thing with all of this: you never know until you try stuff. All of these postings and photos def help, but you really just have to jump in and test treatments out. It is very costly, but to me, it's worth it. I just know that eventually I'll get good results with a combo of stuff.
I don't know about jumping in. that's due to the money issue and wanting to just believe there is something that will work. but i say seeing is believing.
therefore Im saving up ten thousand dollars for fraxel. I will do 5 treatments on a scar on my arm before i do five on my face. i will also take pics and put them here.
I don't know about jumping in. that's due to the money issue and wanting to just believe there is something that will work. but i say seeing is believing.therefore Im saving up ten thousand dollars for fraxel. I will do 5 treatments on a scar on my arm before i do five on my face. i will also take pics and put them here.
my feeling is that to get to step 5 (where you get results) you have to go through 1, 2, 3 & 4.
for me there's a process involved in all this stuff and it seems like a lot of people on here want someone to say: this will work for you and it will the first and only thing you ever have to do. i understand this esp b/c of the money issue, but it's just not the way it works.
obviously, all these postings and pics help a lot, but you just never know for sure what will work for you until you try.
hats off to annie for her tireless posting of comments and photos. you totally rule and i'm sure i speak for everyone who has read this thread who hasnt said so yet.
Hi guys,
Just finished my fourth fraxel. 4th treatment was -
25mJ x 6 passes x 125 mhz = 18750
and
30mj x 8 passes x 125 mhz = 30000
Total energy = 48750 = 4.9kJ (approx) total energy to face
I am very swollen and red as per expected. The doc and I agreed that we won't push beyond this setting as the down time will be too long and there is not as much gain in going above 30mJ. I have scheduled one more treatment on 21st July which will be my 5th and final treatment. For that treatment I will take a week off work and go for 6 passes at 25mJ and maybe 10 passes at 30mj. Might as well go all out since that is my last.
Thus far my treatment has been -
1st - 20Mhz x 6 passes x 125 = 15000 = 1.5kJ
2nd - 25Mhz x 8 passes x 125 = 25000 = 2.5kJ
3rd - 25 x 6 x 125 + 30 x 7 x 125 = 41250 = 4.1kJ
4th - 4.9kJ
I will aim for 5 to 5.5kJ for last treatment and then call it quits. Will recover for 6 months and then see if more treatment is necessary. Right now I don't feel I can afford any more down time and I basically want to get on with my life and forget about my skin and scars for good. I believe at the rate I am going I can get 50% improvement 3-4 months from now.
Interestingly enough the doc was telling me about a patient he treated yesterday with very severe acne scaring who he treated at level 35 for 20 passes! He classified my scarring as moderate which could be treated a lower levels with more frequency depending on my down time requirements. However the studies still show at level 20 and above is best for acne scars and he believes high intensity is the way to go.
I will be part of the first batch to be treated at very aggressive levels and the doc is excited to see our improvement 6 months from now. He believes that since the other studies show 35-45% improvement using 15-20mJ and fewer passes that he should achieve 45-55% improvement at the settings he uses (25-30mJ). Time will tell, but in this case, it's good to be pioneers!
Blaster
