Billy, JJ,

I think you are getting it! JJ, There are just a couple of comments that need correction. Collagen induction is not ONLY created at the MTZ points. With laser energy there is also residual thermal heat damage surrounding the MTZ point. As far as Fraxel is concerned, this is a good thing as it increases collagen beyond wound density. With a more selective laser such as the erbium used in the fraxel, this thermal injury at the point of each MTZ would be minimal however the combined effect over all MTZ's is likely substantial and is believed to be one of the ways Fraxel works.

On the flip side, too much thermal damage to the lower reticular dermis is a recipe for scarring and that is precisely why the density decreases with increased m/J on the (1500). A good P/S that understands the dynamics involved can strike the right balance between output and density.

Concerning the old Fraxel system (750) at level 40. (Aside from the increased of scarring). There are more reasons then just density why level 40 would likely be less effective then using lower settings. Among the biggest would be lower settings have a more focused beam that reaches target tissue depth without scattering before the laser energy reaches its intended target. Reliant has not released any further data on exactly what m/J level the laser energy begins scattering with the (750) all that is known is that it gets worse respectively with higher m/J settings and is dangerous at m/J 40.

With the Fraxel (1500) the laser energy focus is optimized more precisely to reach intended tissue depth. Consequently, level 40 is used routinely with the (1500). This is why the 1500 is likely MORE effective for acne scarring when correct density is reached. The new system is also equipped with more customizable density settings to serve this purpose.

With regards to deep fibrotic/hypertrophic or even atrophic scarring however I would not sacrifice too low an m/J output for higher density. The correct approach would be to increase m/J and density to the level of pinpoint bleeding. With Fraxel fibrosis DOES stand the potential for improvemnt as healthy epidermal/dermal cells will bind together to fill in the surrounding MTZ's.

Case in point: I actually have a before/after picture from one of the trials of a female patient with minimally hypertrophic but widespread scarring of the chest who responded beautifully to Fraxel treatments. Color changes in the tissue were also noted from the typical white fibrosis to healthy skin texture and color which would indicate epidermal/dermal + melanocyte proliferation into the unhealthy tissue. This was simply unheard of before Fraxel.

 

 

I'm still not clear on whether the Fraxel 2 is the same as the SR1500. The Fraxel 2 is only a software upgrade to the old Fraxel or does the Fraxel 2 guarantee they're using the SR1500? If I ask to see the machine will it say SR1500 on it somewhere???

 

Anyone? I was hoping to go for a consultation next week and it would be nice to know!

 

I answered your question in my post above. Call and ask your doctor if they are using the SR1500 software/machine. My doctor had the Fraxel 750 and upgraded the software to the lastest technology ie: 1500.

Shyone answered your question too I see 😀

I found a place online that sells the Natragel mask for a bit cheaper then the doctors office

www.spaelegance.com

I love this mask!!!!

 

Thanks for the info. My old doctor, Dr. Kovak, said he wasn't able to get it. I really want to try this for my next Fraxel.

Wildbb99,

I realize you directed your question to someone else but I happen to be on the forum at the moment so I thought I would comment. In answer to your questions.

1. Thermage uses radio frequency energy which has the potential to ablate fat subdermally. This is not a side effect of Fraxel.

2. Fraxel is a new technology so the jury is still out as far as long term benefits. In theory the results are permanent as Fraxel works through induction of your body's own collagen which is not absorbed as readily. Collagen loss however peaks with age and in that sense repeated treatments are likely necessary.

I'm 2 weeks away from my 1st Fraxel treatment.

I have an old chicken pox scar on my nose, and an old cystic acne scar on my cheek.

I've tried Smoothbeam and C6 Medlite lasers; 5 sessions each -- and no effect on these scars...

I'll let everyone know about my results. I am also taking before and after pictures...

(I'll post them only if I get noticable results.)

-Ralph

Troubled and JJ

You are assets to this forum.

Anyway, JJ I think you are wrong on a point realting to coverage. I believe Trouble's scattergram post is for SR 1500, as it suppresses density as the intensity of ech mtz increases. If you were to keep density contant, as with the model 750, and increased energy setting, I think you would perceive stlightly higher coverage. This occurs, even though the density is held constant, because of the extra thermal damage to surrounding tissue, thereby making the diameter of each mtz slightly larger, as well as much deeper. In other words, there would be the same # of holes as you increase energy, but they would be deeper ( I assume depth is linear to application energy), and also the holes would be very slightly larger due to collateral thermal damage.

Troubled, please confirm.

Thanks

Ok I just got off the phone with the nurse and these are the setting she said were used on me for my second treatment last Thursday.

Fraxel 2

Treatment Level 8

8 Passes

KJ 3.52

Energy Fluency (MJ) 40

Density 424

She did say the settings were a bit different then on the Fraxel 1. She said the screen looks pretty different.

 

 

You can disagree all you like is doesnt alter the facts. Why the feck do I keep coming back to these boards I always leave with bald patches from pulling my hair in frustration. I do have a sincere desire to help but sheeeeesh some folks cant be helped. Maaaaaaate Ive probably been having scar revision since before you were born probably had more procedures than youve had hot dinners including every procedure in the plastic surgery and dermatology armamentarium except Exoderm, Ive been poked prodded illuminated irradiated and abraded from every angle. Whilst I dont profess to be a medical professional Im not a complete quack either.

Did you ever notice that some people can eat whatever they want and rarely ever become fat? Did you ever notice how some people gain fat a lot easier and a lot quicker than other people? Did you ever notice the same about gaining muscle? It's not your imagination. The reason for this is genetics. Ectomorph the naturally skinny body type of the three different body types. Unlike the mesomorph and the endomorph, the ectomorph is the person that has probably been very skinny their entire life. It's not because of a great diet or workout, it's because they are born with a super fast metabolism. The same principle applies to collagen synthesis and catabolism. Ectomorphs will never be Hulk Hogans and some people will never produce much collagen from a controlled injury to the papillary or reticular dermis no matter how many bells and whistles a laser has.

By all means try fraxel if so inclined I tried it myself at a bargain basement price of 300 dollars per session at maximum power settings of 40 MJ 125 MTZ for several passes it did absolutely zero for me and for another dozen similar posts Ive read the exception being one poster who was happy with a general improvement overall not a scar specific improvement. In a utopia this sort of information would be given to patients before they handed over wads of money but we live in capitalist economy so its very much every man and woman for themselves. The TCA trial is a valid strategy an analogy would be instead of signing up for thousands of dollars of gym membership seduced by the latest shiny machines a more prudent approach if finances are a consideration would be to first buy a fifty dollar pair of dumbells to gauge ones own capacity for muscular hypertrophy before handing over wads of sweet smelling freshly minted banknotes to a greedy gym owner.

 

I have to wonder why the price was so low. was your doctor new at this? was it the old fraxel? a fraxel knock off? like i said in an earlier post, at 40 MJ and 125 density you are getting very poor coverage compared to 10 MJ at 250 density.

All those pictures on reliant and fraxel.com are from before doctors started doing high settings (above 20). They were still using the melasma parameters to treat acne scars (6-15 MJ at 250 density). I think this leads to better coverage and results, although NOT for deepers scars. If you look at the results on those webpages you can see that most patients got very nice results on their shallow scarring but their deeper scars are only a little filled in at the edges. sometimes this can make deep scars look even more defined!

I still think they need to refine the treatment parameters for acne scars. remember the FDA approval for acne scars is only a few months old and there was only two fraxel clinical studies done on acne scars so far (that i can find). i think bluekit is part of a third study that is going on as we speak. (although she does say the nurse exaggerates her results in the evaluations!)

deep acne scars are difficult to treat. i think you do have to go with high settings 30-40 MJ. however this reduces the coverage. even with multiple passes. maybe the technology needs to be adapted. i mean if they just up'ed the number of passes at 40 MJ then it would somewhat defeat the benefit of fractional resurfacing. already the down time with high fraxel settings is approaching the two weeks recovery of ablative lasers like co2 or traditional erbium. (versus a day downtime for melasma.)

also when the fraxel/reliant site talks about collagen induction remember they are talking about this in terms of microscopic wounds. you have to first realize that your body will only lay down collagen where it has received MTZs. second, if your scars are deep then your body just won't be able to lay down that much collagen to "fill them up" level with your normal skin after only five treatments. even if you were in perfect health with great genes and "biochemistry." the body has a tremendous ability to heal itself, but within certain physical and temporal limits.

you've also got to consider the fibrotic tissue in deep scars. im not sure if the fraxel can break up scar tissue that well. most people who report good results on their scars had the type that was just a loss of collagen, not a loss of collagen + fibrosis. some peopel on here have said they think for fibrotic scars you need to get excision/subcision first or fraxel is just a waste of time and money.

it's plain to see that for melasma and photodamage (which fraxel was invented for) fraxel works great. for light scars it works OK. for moderate and deeper scars it works less than OK or even negligible. maybe if they adapt the technology it may work better for deep scars? or maybe patients with scars just need many more treatments? I don't know but i wouldn't just blame your body chemistry. you have to look at the whole picture.

 

Im not going to participate in this thread anymore on the grounds of silliness, its like watching a group of televangelists on tv in the wee small hours of the morning discussing the location of Noahs Ark. Re my treatment parameters I wouldnt think my doc is a quack he has attended conferences most recently one given by Roy G. Geronemus, M.D who seems to be well respected in the field. Good Luck and Good Fraxelling.

 

Ummmm OK! It seems you are the one being silly here. Everyone is giving pretty straight forward experience or the facts as they have been told. I don't get what you are so upset about?

Do I think my Fraxel 2 is a cure all for all my skin problems? Hell no but at least I am doing something about it and getting all the information I can to get the best treatment possible.

I too have done a TON of treatments for my scared skin. With every year a new treatment comes out and with everyone I have had done I have had some sort of improvement. BONUS FOR ME! I'm sorry if nothing has worked for you but don't make wide assumptions and say the Fraxel won't work for anyone.

You calling us names and acting like you are so much better then we are won't accomplish anything good.

If you can't deal with someone rationally and honestly replying to your post their opinions and the facts as they see it then you are just to closed minded to participate in this thread anyways.

I really don't get why you are so upset but it won't effect me or my giving this Fraxel 2 treatment a shot.

Good luck to you too.

Lol I like your style Melisconca. I do not come in this thread very much at all for those reasons. I am having Fraxels done for the same price as u did them. So far the 100% totally honest results for me have been nothing. I asked if anyone had any REAL inprovments from the laser and got a couple of crummy emails about why the laser works and why I am an idiot. Okay fine. Does it REALLY work for acne scarring and is it WORTH the price for most patients? Honest answer seems to be no.

Still is a great prodect that appears to be improving fast with the new one just released. Maybe in a few years they will have a Fraxel that is really worth the money for treating acne scars. Right now I would say you would be better off getting a deep laser or dermabrasion than Fraxel for anything other than minor scarring and wrinkles.

I dont knock anyone for anything and really hope u all get the scars eliminated or looking good to a point where u can live with them.

Keith,

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you post about a week and half ago that you were beginning Fraxel treatments on your cheeks? If yes, you would likely be recovering from Fraxel #1 which would be far too early to make any accurate assessment about whether or not Fraxel is working. True Fraxel has its share of non-responders as with every treatment but I encourage you to give it time. Widgie who used to be a regular poster here went through 9 treatments total with good results but didn't see any measurable improvement until the 5th one!

Also $300 is about the going rate for spot treatments outside of premium markets such as CA & NY. $300 for a full face treatment on the other hand is highly unusual. I believe that's what caused such a stir. The Fraxel tips alone are $400 a piece. Add in $100,000+ for the machine, prep & treatment time and it's not hard to see why the math just doesn't add up. True some P/S offer a discount but usually only after a set of treatments have been completed at full price.

Anyway thanks for posting and good luck to you. Your comments are always welcome as is everyone on this thread.

Lol I like your style Melisconca. I do not come in this thread very much at all for those reasons. I am having Fraxels done for the same price as u did them. So far the 100% totally honest results for me have been nothing. I asked if anyone had any REAL inprovments from the laser and got a couple of crummy emails about why the laser works and why I am an idiot. Okay fine. Does it REALLY work for acne scarring and is it WORTH the price for most patients? Honest answer seems to be no.

 

Still is a great prodect that appears to be improving fast with the new one just released. Maybe in a few years they will have a Fraxel that is really worth the money for treating acne scars. Right now I would say you would be better off getting a deep laser or dermabrasion than Fraxel for anything other than minor scarring and wrinkles.

 

I dont knock anyone for anything and really hope u all get the scars eliminated or looking good to a point where u can live with them.

 

Back from treatment #4 using Fraxel 2...

I didn't get all the setting info, I'll call in a day or two and find out more specifics, but what I did get is this: Full face, 20 mjs and 10 passes. Additional passes, cheeks and chin, 40mjs.

And Cubs, definitely get the natragel mask - it is heavenly post treatment!

Right now, the stinging and burning has started to fade. Still stinging under my eyes, but that's the only spot. I'm swollen some and red.

FOUR DOWN AND ONE TO GO!

YIPPEE!!!!

(I also asked Dr. Jih whether a second round of Fraxel 2 is possible, she said yes but that I should wait 3 months to see how much improvement I get from this first round.)

Billy,

The sample was from the SR15000 1 pass @ very low density (I believe 60 MTZ/CM2) . The 750 doesn't have that low of a setting.

For comparison purposes if you were to take the 750 and 1500 and treat a patient at 125 MTZ pass density at fairly high m/J with both machines on seperate sides of the face. The side treated with the 1500 would have more coverage due to the larger spot sizes. Hopefully this makes sense to you.

Troubled and JJ

 

You are assets to this forum.

 

Anyway, JJ I think you are wrong on a point realting to coverage. I believe Trouble's scattergram post is for SR 1500, as it suppresses density as the intensity of ech mtz increases. If you were to keep density contant, as with the model 750, and increased energy setting, I think you would perceive stlightly higher coverage. This occurs, even though the density is held constant, because of the extra thermal damage to surrounding tissue, thereby making the diameter of each mtz slightly larger, as well as much deeper. In other words, there would be the same # of holes as you increase energy, but they would be deeper ( I assume depth is linear to application energy), and also the holes would be very slightly larger due to collateral thermal damage.

 

Troubled, please confirm.

 

Thanks

 

So did Dr. Jih reduce your settings? I seem to remember you having 40 mjs for your last treatment.

From what I have been reading the past few days this type of treatment settings might work best for those with deeper and shallow scarring. Starting out at a lower level of engery flow at a higher density to get more coverage and then going over the deeper scarred areas with a higher engergy flow. So like somoone posted getting the right output and density for the best treatment for scars.

Keith, it surprises me that anyone participating in this thread currently would sent you nasty emails from you simply sharing your story (I only found 2 or 3 of your posts about Fraxel) but I am sorry if you felt you were attacked.

Fraxel works for some and not for others just like any other treatment. I had good results from a combination of lasers three years ago, Smoothbeam, Yag and another but 3 years later and 3 years older I feel I need something a little more intense to jump start some new collagen. I do not want to do anything as drastic as dermabrasion or CO2 laser. I have heard of and witnessed to many problems with these treatments and for me I don't think this would work but simply make my face worse. I also don't have the time or the inclination to deal with the downtime.

From what I could find you have had one Fraxel (1 or 2? you didn't say neither did you say what your settings were) around Nov 2nd. Like Troubled said that is entirely to early to see any kind of improvment. I hope you can wait to pass judgement on the Fraxel until at least 4 or 5 months after your last treatment. It takes that long for the collegen to improve. It's not an instant fix at all. You have to be very patient which is hard for all of us to do.

Most people have said they dont' see any kind of improvment until the 3rd one. $300 for spot treatments (your cheeks) is a reasonable price. I am doing a series of 5 and since I paid for the series up front I get the 5th one free.

I can't wait until Dec 6th and my 3rd treatment! I'm still red today and a little swollen but the worst is over.

It's pretty bad for 2 and a half days but other then that I can deal with it.

Good luck on your other 5 treatments Keith! I hope you do get some kind of improvement. Read the information on the past few pages of this thread. It's good information about what kinds of settings work best. It's been a great value to me and my nurse and doctor love the fact that I am such and informed patient!!

Shyone! Glad to hear you are done with your 4th treatment!! I know what you are going through ugg!

Does anyone have any comments on my last Fraxel settings?

So did Dr. Jih reduce your settings? I seem to remember you having 40 mjs for your last treatment.

From what I have been reading the past few days this type of treatment settings might work best for those with deeper and shallow scarring. Starting out at a lower level of engery flow at a higher density to get more coverage and then going over the deeper scarred areas with a higher engergy flow. So like somoone posted getting the right output and density for the best treatment for scars.

Shyone! Glad to hear you are done with your 4th treatment!! I know what you are going through ugg!

Does anyone have any comments on my last Fraxel settings?

 

Hi! No, she's not decreasing - she's increasing every time. Last time, my full face setting was 18 mjs, this time, the full face was 20. Last time, I was at 40 mjs for the additional passes, same as this time - but I think she did more passes. Not sure, I'll check that when I call.

I had two of the natragel masks, kept one in a cooler while I used the first one, and then kept switching back and forth. I let the seat back and dozed off for part of the trip home, with one of the masks in place. Good thing the back windows are dark tinted, lol. I'm not super red yet, but swelling more as the hours pass. Dr. Jih told me I could expect more swelling this time because this was the most aggressive treatment yet.

I may sleep in the recliner tonight to try and keep it down some.

Keith,

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you post about a week and half ago that you were beginning Fraxel treatments on your cheeks? If yes, you would likely be recovering from Fraxel #1 which would be far too early to make any accurate assessment about whether or not Fraxel is working. True Fraxel has its share of non-responders as with every treatment but I encourage you to give it time. Widgie who used to be a regular poster here went through 9 treatments total with good results but didn't see any measurable improvement until the 5th one!

Also $300 is about the going rate for spot treatments outside of premium markets such as CA & NY. $300 for a full face treatment on the other hand is highly unusual. I believe that's what caused such a stir. The Fraxel tips alone are $400 a piece. Add in $100,000+ for the machine, prep & treatment time and it's not hard to see why the math just doesn't add up. True some P/S offer a discount but usually only after a set of treatments have been completed at full price.

Anyway thanks for posting and good luck to you. Your comments are always welcome as is everyone on this thread.

not posted conclusive pictures on the Fraxel. It has been around for a long time now.

 

Lol I like your style Melisconca. I do not come in this thread very much at all for those reasons. I am having Fraxels done for the same price as u did them. So far the 100% totally honest results for me have been nothing. I asked if anyone had any REAL inprovments from the laser and got a couple of crummy emails about why the laser works and why I am an idiot. Okay fine. Does it REALLY work for acne scarring and is it WORTH the price for most patients? Honest answer seems to be no.

Still is a great prodect that appears to be improving fast with the new one just released. Maybe in a few years they will have a Fraxel that is really worth the money for treating acne scars. Right now I would say you would be better off getting a deep laser or dermabrasion than Fraxel for anything other than minor scarring and wrinkles.

I dont knock anyone for anything and really hope u all get the scars eliminated or looking good to a point where u can live with them.

 

 

No it has nothing to do with my own treatments. I posted on this long after the first treatment also. I do not come on this thread very much at all anymore.

I bought a package of 6 for $1800 for my cheeks. I honestly do not think it is gonna do much and posted as such. I have seen real results from excisions and subcisions, dermabrasion, co2 and other deep lasers and from powerpeel spot dermabrasion and one girl that improved after using TCA, my own treatments and improvements, and thats it. It owuld be great if the remaining Fraxel treatments do SOMETHING for the scarring (which is at this point an afterthought) but I am not gonna hold my breath.

I hope everyone has great results but just said I stay away from this thread because almost everyone is just so hyped about Fraxel when it actually only has backing from the photos on the Reliant website. I posted asking if anyone had gotten good results and the response told me a lot. I hope this becomes the new treatment option for scar revision without tearing the face up, but right now I would personally get a dermabrasion or co2 done if I had terrible scars and really wanted to choose the best thing to smooth my facve. Obviously a spot and all of that should be treated BEFORE doing co2 or dermabrasion but it offers much mroe than the Fraxel at this time.

I will surely post my results in the gallery, as I do with all other treatmetns I have done. I do not understand why people have not posted conclusive pictures on the Fraxel. It has been around for a long time now.

Keith, it surprises me that anyone participating in this thread currently would sent you nasty emails from you simply sharing your story (I only found 2 or 3 of your posts about Fraxel) but I am sorry if you felt you were attacked.

Well they didnt call me a dumb shit but did much the same as I have seen on here before. They told me facts about the Fraxel and why it works, thus claiming I was wrong for questioning it as an acne scar treatment.

THat girl was right though everyone jumps on something with no backing and refuses to listen when their mind has been made up.

Do you honestly expect to make one post only a week ago asking for real results and hear back?

Common, most of the active users on here are in the middle of treatment. Many who had improvement in the past have moved on. they only pop back on once in a blue moon.

I think you are being LAZY to ask other people to do your research for you. if you took the time to read all 130 pages you'd see that some people not only got good results but posted great before and after photos of themselves.

please take the time to read the thread. you can pm/email those that got results. everyone is generally very good about answering their pm's. i've personally emailed questions to just about everyone who had the procedure (instead of making one post and expecting them to all hop on, read it, and answer). grow up your majesty.

as for your "results": did you do even a modicum of research or listen to your doctor explain it?? it takes more than one treatment! more like 6!!

im not hyping fraxel. I honestly dont think its good for deep scars. it is a technology invented for correcting pigmentation. improvement in scarring was a nice side effect and they are improving on this, but its still at the point where it is best for shallow or moderate scars--and even at that it takes many treatments, e.g. widgie had 9 and thought she might get more in 6 months!

don't get down on the number of treatments either. i think that is actually the beauty of this machine. it forces the body to heal itself over time. the improvement is even so gradual that many people forget what they looked like and say it didn't do anything at all, then they go back and look at old pictures and say wow. that's actually happened on here before.

While there are no Fraxel providers in my area, I have been following this thread for a while off and on. I do remember the girl from Miami posting pics and a few others. Florida guy?? I think many times when individuals are getting results, they disappear since they have other things on their mind besides their scars. What happened here? I have been on this forum for years here and remember the smoothbeam thing when everyone was so excited. Had another one of those last week (6th) bty. I have scheduled my erbium, yag peel next week since there are no Fraxel providers in this area. I do think this fraxel is helping alot of folks, lets not be cynical people. We are here to share experiences whether they are good or bad and not judge others since everyone will respond differently to different treatments. I had nearly a full face dermabrasion excluding my forehead for minor scars and one icepick with great results (ok not perfect or I wouldnt be here). Many years later I have new scars and still an existing scar from the icepick. There are many here who will cringe at the word dermabrasion since they had a bad experience. I have learned so much from this forum. Imagine being at the mercy of some Dr. or sales rep trying to sell you the newest thing without first cheking it out here to see what people are experiencing. Peace.

i talked to my derm today. i dont agree with the story's message but this is what he told me (btw, rokshar did the clinical study on fraxel for acne scars).

my derm is friends with rokshar (sp?) in new york. they went to school together. he said he was at a presentation rokshar hosted about fraxel awhile ago. afterwards he asked him "so what's the deal? is it worth it?" and rokshar said "i wouldnt get rid of the sciton you have for this. its not much better."

my derm told me this after he embarrassed himself talking about the fraxel. he said it was a CO2 laser and i was like what, "its an erbium fiber." he didnt believe me so he went to the reliant site and i pointed it out to him. he still didnt believe so he got on his cellphone and called a reliant rep. afterwards i got a semi-apology. he says "you were more correct than I was" LOL. the best part was the nurse had come in for the whole thing and said "wow mark this down on your calendar, dr. %^*$ is never wrong"

he did say he thought the fraxel was good in that it required less downtime, risk, and patient adherence to post treatment recovery. but he countered that with it being too "pricey" not sure if he meant to pricey for him, patients, or both.

he also admitted that he was taking accutane for mild papular acne. he said the worst thing for a derm is to have acne! i found that refreshing since he's the one that prescribed it to me. he said the USA is retared with the whole iPLEDGE program and derms scared to prescribe it but only as a last resort. he said in other countries its the first thing they do, prescribe 40 mg to anyone with a little acne.

i have a question, please answer with non biased facts and supports, thanks.

is 20 mjs full face with additional passes on scarred areas more effective OR 20 mjs full face with a 25mjs additional passes on scarred areas OR 20 mjs full face on non scarred areas and 25 mjs on scarred areas only....

what do you guys think, lol hope i didn't confuse u guys, hehe, let me know.

i have a question, please answer with non biased facts and supports, thanks.

is 20 mjs full face with additional passes on scarred areas more effective OR 20 mjs full face with a 25mjs additional passes on scarred areas OR 20 mjs full face on non scarred areas and 25 mjs on scarred areas only....

what do you guys think, lol hope i didn't confuse u guys, hehe, let me know.

 

fraxel 1 or two? what type of scars?

i dont think the 5 MJ difference would make much difference simply. if i had to choose i'd do 10-15 mj on non-scarred areas (since there are no scars you are only looking for texture and tone improvement) and 15-20 on scarred areas (maybe more on scars after first treatment goes well).

that being said i dont think your doctor will do that. they always like to go over an entire face with one level and then go back over scars with a higher level for spot tx. i think the reason is that dividing up the face with different levels is too complicated and prone to missing spots. may also cause demarcation lines--although if the practitioner is skilled he should be able to feather it.

it also has to do with the way they are trained by reliant reps. they are taught to do one coat in a lower setting then go back and spot treat with higher levels. docs can be like mules, once trained good luck trying to get them to change course.

 

i have a question, please answer with non biased facts and supports, thanks.

is 20 mjs full face with additional passes on scarred areas more effective OR 20 mjs full face with a 25mjs additional passes on scarred areas OR 20 mjs full face on non scarred areas and 25 mjs on scarred areas only....

what do you guys think, lol hope i didn't confuse u guys, hehe, let me know.

 

fraxel 1 or two?

 

fraxel 1 buddy

I will surely post my results in the gallery, as I do with all other treatmetns I have done. I do not understand why people have not posted conclusive pictures on the Fraxel. It has been around for a long time now.

 

Improvements continue for up to six months after the LAST fraxel treatment. No one HAS "conclusive pictures" yet!

I'm on TREATMENT FOUR. It would be INAPPROPRIATE for me to post pics at this point - because they do NOT show the full improvement I will get from this series. I do not yet have the ability to present "conclusive pictures" of my results because I have not yet GOTTEN conclusive results.

Also, keep in mind that Fraxel 2 - supposedly the more effective treatment for acne scars - has NOT "been around for a long time now."

Why do I say that Fraxel 2 hasn't "been around for a long time now" ??

READ THIS:

"Reliant Technologies and Fraxel Laser Treatment In the NewsDate: *****08.14.06*

Reliant Launches Fraxel SR1500 Laser

Mountain View, CA *AUGUST 14, 2006***** Reliant Technologies, Inc. TODAY announced the launch of the Fraxel SR1500 laser, the latest innovation in aesthetic laser medical technology. The Fraxel SR1500 laser combines proprietary advancements in optical technology with medical software offering physicians a treatment option that penetrates up to 30 percent deeper, delivering consistent dosage control and optimizing lesion depths. This leap in technology provides patients a safe and effective, non-invasive treatment option for skin conditions ranging from mild sun damage to severe acne scarring."

Full news release here:

http://www.reliant-tech.com/newsdetails.cfm?NEWSID=41

So, Fraxel 2 technology becomes AVAILABLE to us in August - OF THIS YEAR. It's frikken November 13 today.

By my calendar, that's only 3 months.

A series of treatments is USUALLY done once every two - four weeks. So, people who started the NEW fraxel as soon as it was available still haven't had time to see what level of improvement they'll get! They can't post "conclusive pictures" because they've not had time to get to their individual end result!

You'll see the pictures when sufficient time has past and those of us who are undergoing treatment NOW have had time to get to our full level of improvement.

PATIENCE.

PATIENCE.

PATIENCE.

your words are wasted . . . i pointed this out on the last page!

some people are emotional about their scars. i dont blame them its devastating and colors everything in your life negatively. over time i've grown a little less bothered by them but it still upsets me enough to relate to angry posts.

i just wish people would READ. i can handle the anger not the laziness.

there are photos that show definite improvement, i dont think any are at a full six months but they are at 2-3 so that it is not swelling.

JJP: Ask Troubled, but my view is that your total energy of 3KJs is low for scarring. My first was about 5 KJs and progress to a max of 13KJs. I have read protocols that sugggest 6 to 10 KJs for scarring.

Everyone: My own view is that Keith and JJ are trying to be helpful and add value. Melisconca seemed to have a mad on, which precluded him from communicating his knowlege/experiences in a reasonable way. That said, I agree that it is way too early for Keith to form a judgment on fraxel.

I only recall four picture posters; Florida Guy, Sean, Annie from Miami, and myself. Others promised to post but did not. I have not gone back to recheck photo posts, but I can tell you that my impression was that Florida Guy did get a small benefit, but his scarring seemed small and he had scultra fillers that might bias the pre/post comparison. Also, they were Doc photos. Annie's posts were great. I hope she returns. But there again, her photos were inside and not super close up so it was really hard to discern much detail. I saw a small benefit in Sean's photos wich seemed to have the same light and angle, but there again they were not close up (he seemed to get the best benefit of the photos posted here, based on my recall/evaluation).

I removed my detailed, outdoor photos off photobucket site, but there again, it was hard to draw a conclusion because while they were super close up shots in harsh light, the lgihting and angle were different from pre to post. I believe I got some really nice improvement in color and texture. I think my scarring continues to improve months after the last procedure and last photo, but I would say I got maybe a 15 % improvement, max. So, that is why I follow this forum. If I were to get another 20% from another set, I have had a very meaningful improvement. Yet, the pessimist in me recognizes that very few have posted a detailed set of pre and post photos that show a meaningful improvement. And, my age may hurt my collagen formation.

your words are wasted . . . i pointed this out on the last page!

some people are emotional about their scars. i dont blame them its devastating and colors everything in your life negatively. over time i've grown a little less bothered by them but it still upsets me enough to relate to angry posts.

i just wish people would READ. i can handle the anger not the laziness.

 

My words were TO Keith, not FOR Keith.

😎

great, big difference <----teasing