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hey billy a few more people showed me their pics but i won't say who since they asked not to be identified. one got ok improvement and the other had too deep scars so didnt get any scar improvement. theses were old fraxelers. one was in a clinical trial. a few had crappy pics so i couldnt really tell.
What upsets me the most is on the Fraxel website, the pictures showed amazing improvement. When I first saw this thread I thought oh great it's really long, this must mean a lot of people are getting it done because it works great!
But of course, that isn't the case, it's never the case. All i've heard of in this thread is people getting just a little bit improvement.
its not a panacea but its an improvent over other treatment threads about which are horror stories, or the lounge where most of the people who have given up post about nonsense.
sounds like your expectations were high so there was bound to be letdown. i think a lot of people goes through that whether they are reading this thread or going through treatments. somehow minor improvement becomes upsetting in the face of our expectations.
Billy,
I agree 3KJs is too low for scarring. As far as your treatments are concerned, it would be completely reasonable to expect additional improvement in the 15-20% range with the Fraxel 750 as that is the % of improvement you received from the first set of treatments. I have no data on exactly where the point of diminishing returns are with Fraxel but I suspect it would be somewhere in the 50 -75% range depending on the scars being treated.
The human body is an amazing thing in that by the very fabric of its nature it responds through adaption, refinement & strength in the face of repeated stress. Think immune response, muscle response, brain acuity, ect.
It is well accepted that skin tissue responds to repeated stress in this same manor. Think skin calluses, scar fibrosis, skin contraction, ect. In this same manor it becomes more proficient & stronger at producing collagen in the face of repeated injury.
I believe this to be true and tend to think the most benefit with Fraxel can be obtained through repeated treatment sets and by timing the treatment sets to continue at the peak of collagen production (when improvement is most obvious). In this way each series of treatments should yield better and better results as your body becomes more proficient at collagen production.
Much like doing that next set of laps in the pool when you are tired and your muscles ache. Intuitively you know that performance gains like many things in life come from consistency, exposing yourself to stress, stretching the limit of your abilities, never giving up, instinctively pushing yourself further and further to avoid hitting the wall of mediocrity!!
Now I suppose I should get my a** off this cushy office chair and get some work done. 
Ok so my KJ's are to low, so what should I ask for at the next treatment. I can tell he wants to crank it up and I am going to let him at the next one but will turning up the KJ's increase the pain? I'm almost at my peak as far as pain goes.
All of these different settings are confusing me. Just when I think I have about got it something else pops up.
Thanks guys.
I can't wait to see what Shyone's settings are.
Billy,
I agree 3KJs is too low for scarring. As far as your treatments are concerned, it would be completely reasonable to expect additional improvement in the 15-20% range with the Fraxel 750 as that is the % of improvement you received from the first set of treatments. I have no data on exactly where the point of diminishing returns are with Fraxel but I suspect it would be somewhere in the 50 -75% range depending on the scars being treated.
The human body is an amazing thing in that by the very fabric of its nature it responds through adaption, refinement & strength in the face of repeated stress. Think immune response, muscle response, brain acuity, ect.
It is well accepted that skin tissue responds to repeated stress in this same manor. Think skin calluses, scar fibrosis, skin contraction, ect. In this same manor it becomes more proficient & stronger at producing collagen in the face of repeated injury.
I believe this to be true and tend to think the most benefit with Fraxel can be obtained through repeated treatment sets and by timing the treatment sets to continue at the peak of collagen production (when improvement is most obvious). In this way each series of treatments should yield better and better results as your body becomes more proficient at collagen production.
Much like doing that next set of laps in the pool when you are tired and your muscles ache. Intuitively you know that performance gains like many things in life come from consistency, exposing yourself to stress, stretching the limit of your abilities, never giving up, instinctively pushing yourself further and further to avoid hitting the wall of mediocrity!!
Now I suppose I should get my a** off this cushy office chair and get some work done.
JJP: Ask Troubled, but my view is that your total energy of 3KJs is low for scarring. My first was about 5 KJs and progress to a max of 13KJs. I have read protocols that sugggest 6 to 10 KJs for scarring.
Everyone: My own view is that Keith and JJ are trying to be helpful and add value. Melisconca seemed to have a mad on, which precluded him from communicating his knowlege/experiences in a reasonable way. That said, I agree that it is way too early for Keith to form a judgment on fraxel.
I only recall four picture posters; Florida Guy, Sean, Annie from Miami, and myself. Others promised to post but did not. I have not gone back to recheck photo posts, but I can tell you that my impression was that Florida Guy did get a small benefit, but his scarring seemed small and he had scultra fillers that might bias the pre/post comparison. Also, they were Doc photos. Annie's posts were great. I hope she returns. But there again, her photos were inside and not super close up so it was really hard to discern much detail. I saw a small benefit in Sean's photos wich seemed to have the same light and angle, but there again they were not close up (he seemed to get the best benefit of the photos posted here, based on my recall/evaluation).
I removed my detailed, outdoor photos off photobucket site, but there again, it was hard to draw a conclusion because while they were super close up shots in harsh light, the lgihting and angle were different from pre to post. I believe I got some really nice improvement in color and texture. I think my scarring continues to improve months after the last procedure and last photo, but I would say I got maybe a 15 % improvement, max. So, that is why I follow this forum. If I were to get another 20% from another set, I have had a very meaningful improvement. Yet, the pessimist in me recognizes that very few have posted a detailed set of pre and post photos that show a meaningful improvement. And, my age may hurt my collagen formation.
15%-20% doesn't sound like alot of improvement. I've gotten results like that with 10 treatments of microdermabrasion. I had 1 treatment of PowerPeel with the same Derm. MagneticBoy had in Kentucky. That treatment had almost filled in one of my larger scar on my temple and improved all of the other ones she'd tried. I would go see her again if the location wasn't so far away. No wonder some people have given up on Fraxel. I was hoping to have at least 50%. Now I'm feeling that I might need more than 3 treatments to achieve that. I saw Sean's photos and I honesty don't see much improvement. I wonder how many treatments he's had. I know he did his treatment in lower settings.
I take it that Fraxel is like other scar treatments out there but more advanced. The reason I'm trying Fraxel is that I am Asian and I know that my scarring isn't too severe. If I had light skin and moderate scarring, I might of choosen a different option. I don't think it's worth it unless you have plenty of free time and money to spent. Also its depressing with the downtime and not seeing any difference. Awhile back there was a doctor I went to see for consultation. She was rude but she had scarring on her face. She minimized it with Sciton Erbium Laser. I could still see her scars but it looked alot smoother. She did say to go aggressive and she has had 2-3 treatments. I've posted this on my own thread awhile back but her scarring looked worse than mine (moderate scarring) and she was dark skinned (light black or mixed). The laser has helped her so it should help me as well. If Fraxel is suppose to be a better laser than Sciton then it should help clear up scars. I guess I'll know better in time but i'm staying positive.
I guess people didn't post many photos is because they don't see much improvements and wasn't confortable in showing their scarred skin.
JJP
Was the 3.5 KJs for full face? I have no scarring above lip, which is the most pain snesitive spot for me, so I have them touch that lightly. Same with forehead, although I do have wrinkles, so I asked them to go after that area.
Perhaps it would be best to treat areas and then come back so that the skin has time to cool. I never had a huge issue with Fraxel pain becasue I have horrible back and leg pain due to a failed back (that's why I swim now and have had 3 major open back surgeries) from being a 3 sport athlete in high school (1 college sport), as well as being born with congenital spine problems. Fraxel is nothing compared to spine pain. Take pain pills and be tough. This may be a no pain, no gain situation.
Ask your Doc about returning to areas multiple times, especially those with scarring.
JJP: Ask Troubled, but my view is that your total energy of 3KJs is low for scarring. My first was about 5 KJs and progress to a max of 13KJs. I have read protocols that sugggest 6 to 10 KJs for scarring.
Everyone: My own view is that Keith and JJ are trying to be helpful and add value. Melisconca seemed to have a mad on, which precluded him from communicating his knowlege/experiences in a reasonable way. That said, I agree that it is way too early for Keith to form a judgment on fraxel.
I only recall four picture posters; Florida Guy, Sean, Annie from Miami, and myself. Others promised to post but did not. I have not gone back to recheck photo posts, but I can tell you that my impression was that Florida Guy did get a small benefit, but his scarring seemed small and he had scultra fillers that might bias the pre/post comparison. Also, they were Doc photos. Annie's posts were great. I hope she returns. But there again, her photos were inside and not super close up so it was really hard to discern much detail. I saw a small benefit in Sean's photos wich seemed to have the same light and angle, but there again they were not close up (he seemed to get the best benefit of the photos posted here, based on my recall/evaluation).
I removed my detailed, outdoor photos off photobucket site, but there again, it was hard to draw a conclusion because while they were super close up shots in harsh light, the lgihting and angle were different from pre to post. I believe I got some really nice improvement in color and texture. I think my scarring continues to improve months after the last procedure and last photo, but I would say I got maybe a 15 % improvement, max. So, that is why I follow this forum. If I were to get another 20% from another set, I have had a very meaningful improvement. Yet, the pessimist in me recognizes that very few have posted a detailed set of pre and post photos that show a meaningful improvement. And, my age may hurt my collagen formation.
15%-20% doesn't sound like alot of improvement. I've gotten results like that with 10 treatments of microdermabrasion. I had 1 treatment of PowerPeel with the same Derm. MagneticBoy had in Kentucky. That treatment had almost filled in one of my larger scar on my temple and improved all of the other ones she'd tried. I would go see her again if the location wasn't so far away. No wonder some people have given up on Fraxel. I was hoping to have at least 50%. Now I'm feeling that I might need more than 3 treatments to achieve that. I saw Sean's photos and I honesty don't see much improvement. I wonder how many treatments he's had. I know he did his treatment in lower settings.
I take it that Fraxel is like other scar treatments out there but more advanced. The reason I'm trying Fraxel is that I am Asian and I know that my scarring isn't too severe. If I had light skin and moderate scarring, I might of choosen a different option. I don't think it's worth it unless you have plenty of free time and money to spent. Also its depressing with the downtime and not seeing any difference. Awhile back there was a doctor I went to see for consultation. She was rude but she had scarring on her face. She minimized it with Sciton Erbium Laser. I could still see her scars but it looked alot smoother. She did say to go aggressive and she has had 2-3 treatments. I've posted this on my own thread awhile back but her scarring looked worse than mine (moderate scarring) and she was dark skinned (light black or mixed). The laser has helped her so it should help me as well. If Fraxel is suppose to be a better laser than Sciton then it should help clear up scars. I guess I'll know better in time but i'm staying positive.
I guess people didn't post many photos is because they don't see much improvements and wasn't confortable in showing their scarred skin.
For a thread that has 133+ pages you would think you can get 5-10 actual photos of improvement because by reading this thread probably 50-100 people have tried fraxel, something has to give.
Iam not doubting the machine, it seems to be doing well for texture/tone etc for alot of people, but it terms of actual scar repair i dont think its very effective or atleast by reading this thread and others on the internet i get the same impression.
now some might not post anymore cause they got good improvements, i wish that were the case. who knows but i agree with you on this one.
Do you honestly expect to make one post only a week ago asking for real results and hear back?
Common, most of the active users on here are in the middle of treatment. Many who had improvement in the past have moved on. they only pop back on once in a blue moon.
I think you are being LAZY to ask other people to do your research for you. if you took the time to read all 130 pages you'd see that some people not only got good results but posted great before and after photos of themselves.
please take the time to read the thread. you can pm/email those that got results. everyone is generally very good about answering their pm's. i've personally emailed questions to just about everyone who had the procedure (instead of making one post and expecting them to all hop on, read it, and answer). grow up your majesty.
as for your "results": did you do even a modicum of research or listen to your doctor explain it?? it takes more than one treatment! more like 6!!
im not hyping fraxel. I honestly dont think its good for deep scars. it is a technology invented for correcting pigmentation. improvement in scarring was a nice side effect and they are improving on this, but its still at the point where it is best for shallow or moderate scars--and even at that it takes many treatments, e.g. widgie had 9 and thought she might get more in 6 months!
don't get down on the number of treatments either. i think that is actually the beauty of this machine. it forces the body to heal itself over time. the improvement is even so gradual that many people forget what they looked like and say it didn't do anything at all, then they go back and look at old pictures and say wow. that's actually happened on here before.
Ive been on here a year now James and have read those threads from the very beginning. I asked if anyone had posted some pictures or something like that showing their results. I am a realist. I like to look at pictures rather than hear stories or read about settings. This is why I dont come on this thread. It has nothign to do with anything else except for the fact that most are unwilling to say anything bad about the treatment. And also it has nothign to do with being lazy.
I saw Billyboy and told him honestly that he looked good, but that the Fraxels did not look like they were worth the money. I saw another guy on here that had Fraxels done many months ago and had little change to his face. Everyone was commenting on his level of improvments when I saw very very little amount of improving at all. Meet Pete was the first member i remember having this done and it did nothing for his scars at all. Florida guy had it done and is on the website as one of their success stories. He said on this thread that he had a filler on a deep wrinkle. This was not mentioned by reliant only that he had had Fraxel treatment. The wrinkle was the most noicable change to his face and the filler was not mentioned. :think:
I am doing them since I have mostly extremely light scarring to take care of after my previous treatments over this last year. I really hope the remaining treatments will smooth out the skin but said I will not hold my breath. I already had purchased the package and figure it will keep my face tight and even skin toned regardless of the differences in the scars. I would opt for a dermabrasion or co2 if my scars were really a big issue with my life. These days they are not and whatever happens with the treatments I do not care as long as it is positive. I dont judge anything on here individually. I looked at the various people I had seen doing this and came to an informed conclusion on at least Fraxel 1 as an acne scar treament.
So have there been any great results that I missed over this last year? Should it take a week to hear back from u guys reading all this daily? I can name the members that have had certain treatments and what they looked like afterward. Why would that be so crazy to ask James? There are a ton of members on here doing and been doing fraxels and completed fraxel treatments so why shouldnt there be 1 person that has had a great experience with it?
your words are wasted . . . i pointed this out on the last page!
some people are emotional about their scars. i dont blame them its devastating and colors everything in your life negatively. over time i've grown a little less bothered by them but it still upsets me enough to relate to angry posts.
i just wish people would READ. i can handle the anger not the laziness.
there are photos that show definite improvement, i dont think any are at a full six months but they are at 2-3 so that it is not swelling.
This was for me right? Hell I am not emotional I feel good when i wash and shave my face now. Having to work with a few light scars is not a deal at all. Check out my gallery that first picture was where these comments might have been somewhat accurate. I have taken care of the scars to the point where I am now trying to get perfect skin. Even with the superficial scars I have better skin than most men due to the treatments and things I have done.
Still YOU seem to be getting angry at me for questioning the laser. I said I have a lot of the package left and it is too early for me I was talking about the members that had done it and been done for a long time now. YOU cannot look past the fact that u think this is a cure all for acne scarring. Anything but at the very shallow level is probably not the truth
I paid $1800 and am going to do all the sessions but was just being real with anyone that had anything more than supeficial scars. If I see anything not on the Reliant site lmao in terms of good before and afters for acne scars I will change my stance.
BB, yes I am having my full face treated. Including as close to the eyes as he can get with the newer smaller headpiece and my forhead, chin and above my lips (hey I can always hope it might fill out my lips, now that would be a nice thing 
He is doing 8 passes as it is now so he's doing multiple passes. He goes horizontally and vertically over my whole face. I think he did turn it down a little when he did my chin and lip area. I have shallow to moderate scarring all over and a few deepers scars that are older. I hope to get improvment in tone, texture and good improvement on my more shallow scars. I actually don't have much hope that it will do a whole lot for the deeper scars and plan on doing filler afterwards on those and the marionette lines around my mouth.
I think I'm a realist with this treatment. I know scars are difficult if near impossible to totally erase. I don't get into all the hype that even my doctor says sometimes. He is ummmm to excited about this treatment but then he has treated a lot of people with the Fraxel and has even seen good results from the limited time he has been doing the Fraxel 2. He takes pictures before every treatment so hopefully when I'm done I will have some professional pics taken in the same light, same room, same angle to show.
As far as the people who have done the Fraxel one from what I remember reading most of them had it done at levels that were to low to do any real improvement for deeper scars. From my first impression when I came in here to get information and experiences about the Fraxel I read that you should have lower settings for discolorations which would make you peel more and higher levels for deeper scars. I also think since this is a 'newer' laser doctors are still learning what is the best treatment for scars. This laser was not even put out there for scarring at first so it's still a new technology, and the Fraxel 2 is pretty much brand new.
Shyone, call the office to get the settings. I did yesterday and they were more then happy to get them for me. The nurse, Alyssa is her name, I think 
even got on the phone and answered my questions. If you get a chance ask if the higher the MJ the less coverage you get. I asked but didn't think she answered that question, as I had so many. My face was so swollen for two days when I smiled I could see the tops of my cheeks. I don't even recognize myself when I look in the mirror 
JJP
Was the 3.5 KJs for full face? I have no scarring above lip, which is the most pain snesitive spot for me, so I have them touch that lightly. Same with forehead, although I do have wrinkles, so I asked them to go after that area.
Perhaps it would be best to treat areas and then come back so that the skin has time to cool. I never had a huge issue with Fraxel pain becasue I have horrible back and leg pain due to a failed back (that's why I swim now and have had 3 major open back surgeries) from being a 3 sport athlete in high school (1 college sport), as well as being born with congenital spine problems. Fraxel is nothing compared to spine pain. Take pain pills and be tough. This may be a no pain, no gain situation.
Ask your Doc about returning to areas multiple times, especially those with scarring.
sighz, will you guys please stop arguing and fighting, sheesh, we are all on the same boat and rocking it will not help one another....i'm tired of trying to read more new information that will help instead i see bunch of nonsense bickering between people whom i think should be more mature. now i dont want to start an e-beef or a flame war with anyone nor should i have to read through the nonsense to see new valuable information, if you want to bicker or fight on the net then make a new thread but leave this thread alone, its long enough as it is. good day.
Hey Guys,
I think that most if not all of the early Fraxel patients were being treated at levels that were too low to produce significant results for acne scars. At least this is what the Reliant reps that were in the room during my Fraxel treatment said. The newer, deeper, more aggressive treatment guidelines have just recently been implemented and only by docs who are not afraid to use them. I think that we will have to wait and see on both Fraxel I and Fraxel II until we have posters who have had the more aggressive settings before we can discount this treatment. I, for one, remain very hopeful as I can see results after only one treatment. It would probably be premature for me to post photos because it is possible that I still have some swelling even though I cannot see or feel it and I am still redish/pink, though no longer flaking and my texture seems back to normal. The greatest was when I was in a few department stores over the weekend and I caught my face in the mirror and was not hit over the head by the scars on my face. They are most definately softened. The cheeks have had the most improvement with around my mouth being the least improvement. And just FYI, I am talking about how I look after the scars reappeared, post tightness and swelling when the skin was baby smooth looking.
TROUBLED SKIN,
If you know, is it better to wait a longer time between treatments or shorter time? I know most of us are scheduling at three weeks to a month, but I was wondering if it might be better to wait longer than one month for more healing or if it wouldn't make any difference? Thanks!
Shyone, call the office to get the settings. I did yesterday and they were more then happy to get them for me. The nurse, Alyssa is her name, I think :doh: even got on the phone and answered my questions. If you get a chance ask if the higher the MJ the less coverage you get. I asked but didn't think she answered that question, as I had so many. My face was so swollen for two days when I smiled I could see the tops of my cheeks. I don't even recognize myself when I look in the mirror :redface:
I've got a call in to them already. 😀
I have to say this: WOOOO HOOOO!!!!!! ONE MORE TO GO!!!!!! WOOOO HOOOO!!!!!!
:dance:
sighz, will you guys please stop arguing and fighting, sheesh, we are all on the same boat and rocking it will not help one another....i'm tired of trying to read more new information that will help instead i see bunch of nonsense bickering between people whom i think should be more mature. now i dont want to start an e-beef or a flame war with anyone nor should i have to read through the nonsense to see new valuable information, if you want to bicker or fight on the net then make a new thread but leave this thread alone, its long enough as it is. good day.
:clap:
hehe, thanks shyone and thanks jjp for your private message to me about the bickering feud nonsense. anyways, i agreed with you nannie that though in the begining like i think a week and a half or even 2 weeks, it is hard to assume that the results you have are permanent but after 3 weeks or perhaps 2 weeks to 2 1/2 weeks which varies from person, i think that the results are rather real. though all my scars have re appeared but i must say that i look MUCH better then i did before the 1st treatment, espcially after showers, when my skin used to look like a carpet rug which makes the scars even glow horribly but now the scars are very smooth and softer and some have been teasing me about dissapearing completely, i must rate my improvement so far on a scale of 90% being the best improvement, iw ould say roughly 10-15%, and on my shallowest scars, it is very hard to see now since it is 9.3/10 almost filled in so i am saying perhaps a 70-75% improvement. now my estimation are not 100% accurate for i want to downplay the improvement then over exagerating it. i have stopped exercising for this week and prepping my skin for the 2nd treatment this coming friday. hope that helps. oh yea good luck to everyone, i'm on fraxel 1 btw. lol im so jealous of the fraxel 2 people, hehe..
your words are wasted . . . i pointed this out on the last page!
some people are emotional about their scars. i dont blame them its devastating and colors everything in your life negatively. over time i've grown a little less bothered by them but it still upsets me enough to relate to angry posts.
i just wish people would READ. i can handle the anger not the laziness.
there are photos that show definite improvement, i dont think any are at a full six months but they are at 2-3 so that it is not swelling.
This was for me right? Hell I am not emotional I feel good when i wash and shave my face now. Having to work with a few light scars is not a deal at all. Check out my gallery that first picture was where these comments might have been somewhat accurate. I have taken care of the scars to the point where I am now trying to get perfect skin. Even with the superficial scars I have better skin than most men due to the treatments and things I have done.
Still YOU seem to be getting angry at me for questioning the laser. I said I have a lot of the package left and it is too early for me I was talking about the members that had done it and been done for a long time now. YOU cannot look past the fact that u think this is a cure all for acne scarring. Anything but at the very shallow level is probably not the truth
I paid $1800 and am going to do all the sessions but was just being real with anyone that had anything more than supeficial scars. If I see anything not on the Reliant site lmao in terms of good before and afters for acne scars I will change my stance.
sigh
Hey Guys,
I think that most if not all of the early Fraxel patients were being treated at levels that were too low to produce significant results for acne scars. At least this is what the Reliant reps that were in the room during my Fraxel treatment said. The newer, deeper, more aggressive treatment guidelines have just recently been implemented and only by docs who are not afraid to use them. I think that we will have to wait and see on both Fraxel I and Fraxel II until we have posters who have had the more aggressive settings before we can discount this treatment. I, for one, remain very hopeful as I can see results after only one treatment. It would probably be premature for me to post photos because it is possible that I still have some swelling even though I cannot see or feel it and I am still redish/pink, though no longer flaking and my texture seems back to normal. The greatest was when I was in a few department stores over the weekend and I caught my face in the mirror and was not hit over the head by the scars on my face. They are most definately softened. The cheeks have had the most improvement with around my mouth being the least improvement. And just FYI, I am talking about how I look after the scars reappeared, post tightness and swelling when the skin was baby smooth looking.
TROUBLED SKIN,
If you know, is it better to wait a longer time between treatments or shorter time? I know most of us are scheduling at three weeks to a month, but I was wondering if it might be better to wait longer than one month for more healing or if it wouldn't make any difference? Thanks!
Nantynannie,
The resting period between each treatment should really be based on how well your body heals in the interum. The usuall is 2 -4 weeks depending on how aggressive your treatments are as well as your P/S's preference.
That being said, if you are planning on another set of treatments it would be wise not to wait too long between treatments. The idea is to boost tissue/collagen response at its peak. Not the other way around. hope this helps. 😀
hehe, thanks shyone and thanks jjp for your private message to me about the bickering feud nonsense. anyways, i agreed with you nannie that though in the begining like i think a week and a half or even 2 weeks, it is hard to assume that the results you have are permanent but after 3 weeks or perhaps 2 weeks to 2 1/2 weeks which varies from person, i think that the results are rather real. though all my scars have re appeared but i must say that i look MUCH better then i did before the 1st treatment, espcially after showers, when my skin used to look like a carpet rug which makes the scars even glow horribly but now the scars are very smooth and softer and some have been teasing me about dissapearing completely, i must rate my improvement so far on a scale of 90% being the best improvement, iw ould say roughly 10-15%, and on my shallowest scars, it is very hard to see now since it is 9.3/10 almost filled in so i am saying perhaps a 70-75% improvement. now my estimation are not 100% accurate for i want to downplay the improvement then over exagerating it. i have stopped exercising for this week and prepping my skin for the 2nd treatment this coming friday. hope that helps. oh yea good luck to everyone, i'm on fraxel 1 btw. lol im so jealous of the fraxel 2 people, hehe..
Simply,
That's really fantastic news. It's always nice to hear when someone takes the time to report back positive news.
You can disagree all you like is doesnt alter the facts. Why the feck do I keep coming back to these boards I always leave with bald patches from pulling my hair in frustration. I do have a sincere desire to help but sheeeeesh some folks cant be helped. Maaaaaaate Ive probably been having scar revision since before you were born probably had more procedures than youve had hot dinners including every procedure in the plastic surgery and dermatology armamentarium except Exoderm, Ive been poked prodded illuminated irradiated and abraded from every angle. Whilst I dont profess to be a medical professional Im not a complete quack either.
Did you ever notice that some people can eat whatever they want and rarely ever become fat? Did you ever notice how some people gain fat a lot easier and a lot quicker than other people? Did you ever notice the same about gaining muscle? It's not your imagination. The reason for this is genetics. Ectomorph the naturally skinny body type of the three different body types. Unlike the mesomorph and the endomorph, the ectomorph is the person that has probably been very skinny their entire life. It's not because of a great diet or workout, it's because they are born with a super fast metabolism. The same principle applies to collagen synthesis and catabolism. Ectomorphs will never be Hulk Hogans and some people will never produce much collagen from a controlled injury to the papillary or reticular dermis no matter how many bells and whistles a laser has.
By all means try fraxel if so inclined I tried it myself at a bargain basement price of 300 dollars per session at maximum power settings of 40 MJ 125 MTZ for several passes it did absolutely zero for me and for another dozen similar posts Ive read the exception being one poster who was happy with a general improvement overall not a scar specific improvement. In a utopia this sort of information would be given to patients before they handed over wads of money but we live in capitalist economy so its very much every man and woman for themselves. The TCA trial is a valid strategy an analogy would be instead of signing up for thousands of dollars of gym membership seduced by the latest shiny machines a more prudent approach if finances are a consideration would be to first buy a fifty dollar pair of dumbells to gauge ones own capacity for muscular hypertrophy before handing over wads of sweet smelling freshly minted banknotes to a greedy gym owner.
I have to wonder why the price was so low. was your doctor new at this? was it the old fraxel? a fraxel knock off? like i said in an earlier post, at 40 MJ and 125 density you are getting very poor coverage compared to 10 MJ at 250 density.
All those pictures on reliant and fraxel.com are from before doctors started doing high settings (above 20). They were still using the melasma parameters to treat acne scars (6-15 MJ at 250 density). I think this leads to better coverage and results, although NOT for deepers scars. If you look at the results on those webpages you can see that most patients got very nice results on their shallow scarring but their deeper scars are only a little filled in at the edges. sometimes this can make deep scars look even more defined!
I still think they need to refine the treatment parameters for acne scars. remember the FDA approval for acne scars is only a few months old and there was only two fraxel clinical studies done on acne scars so far (that i can find). i think bluekit is part of a third study that is going on as we speak. (although she does say the nurse exaggerates her results in the evaluations!)
deep acne scars are difficult to treat. i think you do have to go with high settings 30-40 MJ. however this reduces the coverage. even with multiple passes. maybe the technology needs to be adapted. i mean if they just up'ed the number of passes at 40 MJ then it would somewhat defeat the benefit of fractional resurfacing. already the down time with high fraxel settings is approaching the two weeks recovery of ablative lasers like co2 or traditional erbium. (versus a day downtime for melasma.)
also when the fraxel/reliant site talks about collagen induction remember they are talking about this in terms of microscopic wounds. you have to first realize that your body will only lay down collagen where it has received MTZs. second, if your scars are deep then your body just won't be able to lay down that much collagen to "fill them up" level with your normal skin after only five treatments. even if you were in perfect health with great genes and "biochemistry." the body has a tremendous ability to heal itself, but within certain physical and temporal limits.
you've also got to consider the fibrotic tissue in deep scars. im not sure if the fraxel can break up scar tissue that well. most people who report good results on their scars had the type that was just a loss of collagen, not a loss of collagen + fibrosis. some peopel on here have said they think for fibrotic scars you need to get excision/subcision first or fraxel is just a waste of time and money.
it's plain to see that for melasma and photodamage (which fraxel was invented for) fraxel works great. for light scars it works OK. for moderate and deeper scars it works less than OK or even negligible. maybe if they adapt the technology it may work better for deep scars? or maybe patients with scars just need many more treatments? I don't know but i wouldn't just blame your body chemistry. you have to look at the whole picture.
Im not going to participate in this thread anymore on the grounds of silliness, its like watching a group of televangelists on tv in the wee small hours of the morning discussing the location of Noahs Ark. Re my treatment parameters I wouldnt think my doc is a quack he has attended conferences most recently one given by Roy G. Geronemus, M.D who seems to be well respected in the field. Good Luck and Good Fraxelling.
Melisconca,
I just happened to read your post about Dr. Geronemus. Incidentally, he is the president of ASLMS and spoke at the meeting which I attended earlier this year in Boston. I can tell you first hand he does NOT advocate treatment at 40 m/J with the Fraxel 750. He also happens to be one of the biggest praisers of Fraxel I have ever met next to Fitzpatrick.
FYI, attached is a copy of the Trends in Medicine Newsletter for the ASLMS so that you can read some of his comments about Fraxel. You will find them on page 7 as well as some comments from other collegues about Fraxel's effectiveness. It's a small world isn't it? 😉