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8 minutes ago, dirigo39 said:
Your advice is kind of all over the place. A page back you said i needed aggressive resurfacing and that taylor liberator wouldn't help because there's not much tethered anymore.
From the prior pictures it did look like you had edges. But the las pictures that I have seen with injections is where i think u needed lift more than ablation. Ablation will help. I remember when we we were discussing I told you to try Taylor. But based on the current pictures post dermabrasion I wouldnt suggest dermabrasion. Now I dont know if it is shadowing but it seems tethered here. Physical examination is best. I am judging based on pictures.
Just now, getsmart121 said:From the prior pictures it did look like you had edges. But the las pictures that I have seen with injections is where i think u needed lift more than ablation. Ablation will help. I remember when we we were discussing I told you to try Taylor
Yeah I guess photos can't give you an accurate description. I will probably still be doing taylor lib since the other cheek has rolling scars. isn't dermabrasion = ablation?
1 minute ago, dirigo39 said:
Yeah I guess photos can't give you an accurate description. I will probably still be doing taylor lib since the other cheek has rolling scars. isn't dermabrasion = ablation?
To be honest I didnt mentioned specifically to do dermabrasion I think laser are better as it goes a light goes bit deeper. But if you have texture than dermabrasion could help very well. Did it help with top texture though?
5 minutes ago, JesusChrist said:In my opinion, scars are deep for dermabrasion my friend.
you mean dermabrasion are for deep scars? or scars are to deep for dermabrasion?
I have to remind everyone that this was a very LIGHT dermabrasion done. It didn't even leave any scabs. Even a diluted weak chemical peel will still form a scab over the
5 minutes ago, JesusChrist said:In my opinion, scars are deep for dermabrasion my friend.
you mean dermabrasion are for deep scars? or scars are to deep for dermabrasion?
I have to remind everyone that this was a very LIGHT dermabrasion done. It didn't even leave any scabs. Even a diluted chemical peel will still form a scab over the
2 minutes ago, dirigo39 said:you mean dermabrasion are for deep scars? or scars are to deep for dermabrasion?
I have to remind everyone that this was a very LIGHT dermabrasion done. It didn't even leave any scabs. Even a diluted weak chemical peel will still form a scab over the
Dermabrasion isnt meant for deep rolling scars. I meant where the scars have very prominent edge.
8 minutes ago, getsmart121 said:Dermabrasion isnt meant for deep rolling scars. I meant where the scars have very prominent edge.
Dermabrasion (done correctly) isn't done any more so no one here except the two people (missmacay and harmlessboy) can even give a review on this. It's meant for deep scars because it's triggers collagen production by damaging the dermis.
The last time it was mention much on this forum was 2004 and 2009.
Most doctors avoid it because they don't want to be liable. dermabrasion goes deeper than a c02 laser.
4 minutes ago, dirigo39 said:
Dermabrasion (done correctly) isn't done any more so no one here except the two people (missmacay and harmlessboy) can even give a review on this. It's meant for deep scars because it's triggers collagen production by damaging it.
The last time it was mention much on this forum was 2004 and 2009.
Most doctors avoid it because they don't want to be liable. dermabrasion goes deeper than a c02 laser.
Yes but you have to weigh the risk to reward ratio when going too deep. They had different kind of scars like boxcars and icepick which are textural with edges. Any damage triggers collagen production. Think that you have an icepick scar deep. Do you really want to bring all healthy skin to that level. Doesn™t make sense. See the picture will you dermabrade all to the level of icepick scar.
Now look at this lady™s boxcar edges which would greatly benefit from full ablation co2 or erbium or dermabrasion. The depth is not deep but have edges.
7 minutes ago, getsmart121 said:Yes but you have to weigh the risk to reward ratio when going too deep. They had different kind of scars like boxcars and icepick which are textural with edges. Any damage triggers collagen production. Think that you have an icepick scar deep. Do you really want to bring all healthy skin to that level. Doesn™t make sense. See the picture will you dermabrade all to the level of icepick scar.
I think i've plateaued for what a subcision can give me. Because the last 2 times ( one in 2020 and one in 2021) didn't really improve anything. I asked my injector last month if my scars are tethered and he said no. The one that did my sub in 2021 also said but not directly that he didn't think subs wouldnt do anything.
4 minutes ago, dirigo39 said:
I think i've plateaued for what a subcision can give me. Because the last 2 times ( one in 2020 and one in 2021) didn't really improve anything. I asked my injector if my scars are tethered and he said no. The one that did my sub in 2021 also said but not directly that he didn't think subs wouldnt do anything.
You had cannula mostly correct. Cannula doesnt do the job if you hav widespread depression. Did he see in angled lighting to see if the scars were tethered?
you need to focus on building collagen with fractional co2 and Taylor liberator.
2 minutes ago, getsmart121 said:You had cannula mostly correct. Cannula doesnt do the job if you hav widespread depression. Did he see in angled lighting to see if the scars were tethered?
2 cannula 2 nokor. he touched and used angle lighting. the doc who did the nokor sub in 2021 said tca cross wouldnt help my kind of scarring. in 2020 rullan gave me the trio--but it seems he gives everyone the trio without really thinking.
18 minutes ago, dirigo39 said:2 cannula 2 nokor.
Was the nokor extensive? Did it cut tethers for each depression. Thats the problem with nokor although it cuts the doctor has to ensure he goes into each depression area and cut the tethers. Thats is the benefit with Taylor a single entry to access all scars. Maybe it tethered back in your case. B if tethers are broken then I think u need collagen building procedures. There are some studies also coming up from India between fractional co2 and rfm and they have noted the results to be about same. Which means rfm could be great for building collagen but not that great for too texture such as edges. And if body cant make that much collagen then continue adding fillers ha session by session.
18 minutes ago, JesusChrist said:Scars are too deep for dermabrasion if doctor goes that deep your face might scarred more.
Problem is the subcision isn't working for dirigo. I agree those scars are not going to respond as well to dermabrasion as mine simply because mine were like 100 icepicks generally all the same depth or what not so a level ablation at an aggressive level worked miracles. But when you have fat loss or gaps the key goal is to work on those then ablate.
The problem is nothing is working for dirigo in order to get to the ablation stage so she skipped straight to ablation. Just looking at those types of scars the "weak dermabrasion" didn't make anything worse it actually looks slightly smoother, but I'm also afraid if she goes too deep given the depth of those scars, it's riskier.
Problem is she's just out of options. Dermabrasion works best in my mind when you have tons of imperfections, nicks, scars, but not atrophy or fat loss. You can't "ablate" with gaps in between it just creates more gaps. And then she's right that I got massive scabs when I had it done just like another injury so there's no chance it was like mine. I think my doctor went down to the top dermis frankly.
Dirigo why not try flying out to Lim/Australia if you've run out of brainstorming why not just let an expert take over and throw the dice on that?
1 hour ago, getsmart121 said:You had cannula mostly correct. Cannula doesnt do the job if you hav widespread depression. Did he see in angled lighting to see if the scars were tethered?
you need to focus on building collagen with fractional co2 and Taylor liberator.
what? how does fractional co2 help build collagen?
maybe later down the line. But i=I don't think dr lim can do anything better than what rullan can, except maybe lasers.
Well, we'll see how it goes around October.
27 minutes ago, JesusChrist said:you could give it a try subcision with genius rfm for building collagen too.
People need to stop recommending infini and genius. Lutronic is a smaller laser company compared to candela or cutera
I dont know but I did 3 Infini RF Microneedling sessions and I was convinced my scars had gotten worse.
I just completed my third secret PRO RFM + CO2 (the secret pro machine has both RFM and CO2 hand pieces) and my scars have become much shallower SOMEHOW.
im kind of in disbelief because I was convinced after infini that RFM wouldnt do anything for me
very odd.
and also Im not sure if the co2 is playing a role. But Im guessing probably.
3 minutes ago, Catharsis2018 said:People need to stop recommending infini and genius. Lutronic is a smaller laser company compared to candela or cutera
I dont know but I did 3 Infini RF Microneedling sessions and I was convinced my scars had gotten worse.
I just completed my third secret PRO RFM + CO2 (the secret pro machine has both RFM and CO2 hand pieces) and my scars have become much shallower SOMEHOW.im kind of in disbelief because I was convinced after infini that RFM wouldnt do anything for me
very odd.
and also Im not sure if the co2 is playing a role. But Im guessing probably.
Whats more is i am convinced infini and genius get talked about so much on here because Davin Lim and Steven Weiner basically got their machines for free and are the #1 advocates for lutronic
My laser tech was telling me that the secret pro machine is worth x3 the amount as infini and x2 the amount as genius (worth as in market price for practices to purchase.)
45 minutes ago, dirigo39 said:maybe later down the line. But i=I don't think dr lim can do anything better than what rullan can, except maybe lasers.
Who knows, I mean Rullan is certainly accredited but Lim seems to work on more creative or stubborn cases. He might have more skill at subcision or more ideas, or might be able to refer you to someone if his attempts fail. But you may be right and it's hard to tell people to keep shoveling money into the unknown.
It's extremely hard to figure out besides subcision what to throw at spots that are atrophic or loss of fat/material. Even most doctors don't have very good answers for it to be blunt.
Permanent fillers might be some option maybe Lim has some ideas on that. But things like fat filler or other horror stories of shifting/clumping do scare me I'll be honest, even if it's not very common.
You may want to try more subcision maybe different approaches with more experienced doctors, possibly with different fillers. Just looking at your scars they still seem like they should technically respond best to it, I have no clue why some get great results others nothing. So frusterating.
5 minutes ago, Catharsis2018 said:People need to stop recommending infini and genius. Lutronic is a smaller laser company compared to candela or cutera
I dont know but I did 3 Infini RF Microneedling sessions and I was convinced my scars had gotten worse.
I just completed my third secret PRO RFM + CO2 (the secret pro machine has both RFM and CO2 hand pieces) and my scars have become much shallower SOMEHOW.im kind of in disbelief because I was convinced after infini that RFM wouldnt do anything for me
very odd.
and also Im not sure if the co2 is playing a role. But Im guessing probably.
Whats more is i am convinced infini and genius get talked about so much on here because Davin Lim and Steven Weiner basically got their machines for free and are the #1 advocates for lutronic
My laser tech was telling me that the secret pro machine is worth x3 the amount as infini and x2 the amount as genius.
I believe all of this. Also i don't they just got their machine for free. I think they are shareholders in that company.
You're most recent photos do look more shallow.
1 minute ago, dirigo39 said:
I believe all of this. Also i don't they just got their machine for free. I think they are shareholders in that company.
You're most recent photos do look more shallow.
Re: shareholders ---- honestly, that would not be a huge stretch at all. Lutronic is a small laser company compared to the bigger names - shares must be cheaper. Infini and Genius have been hyped up SOOOOOOOO much by specific acne scar doctors like Lim and Weiner and then echoed here - those who've taken the plunge with infini/genius (like me, 3k down the drain), have seen NO results.
It's so evil to take advantage of acne scar sufferers - ffs we are a vulnerable community as it is. Really angers me.
I really don't know why i'm seeing a difference now with these treatments. I don't know if it's the light CO2 peel after the RFM, or if it's RFM from a machine that comes from a reputable company like cutera. it's interesting for sure.... but also confusing lol
5 minutes ago, Catharsis2018 said:Re: shareholders ---- honestly, that would not be a huge stretch at all. Lutronic is a small laser company compared to the bigger names - shares must be cheaper. Infini and Genius have been hyped up SOOOOOOOO much by specific acne scar doctors like Lim and Weiner and then echoed here - those who've taken the plunge with infini/genius (like me, 3k down the drain), have seen NO results.
It's so evil to take advantage of acne scar sufferers - ffs we are a vulnerable community as it is. Really angers me.
I really don't know why i'm seeing a difference now with these treatments. I don't know if it's the light CO2 peel after the RFM, or if it's RFM from a machine that comes from a reputable company like cutera. it's interesting for sure.... but also confusing lol
True it's one of the most despicable things but it happens often. Another guy with moderate/severe scarring on another thread the last week said the doctor was doing/suggesting microneedling and some other superficial trash for thousands. It's common.
Lim may very well be an opportunist who knows, and I understand the angst, but at least in many things I've seen he has helped significant scarring and many more severe cases. Granted I don't follow him closely, I just follow threads where patients have seen him and post pictures and also articles. In a world where there's practically no experts that even want to take more severe cases, gotta sort of take what society can get even if it's flawed.
But of course I totally agree. I think all these cases should generally be comp'd by doctors or by the state. It's beyond repugnant that there are opportunists out there, little regulation or protection by the state, and people just crawling in the dark looking for solutions from "botox docs" that are the only local ones. And it takes thousands and tens of thousands to just "crawl in the dark" with experts if you don't want a botox doc.
3 hours ago, Catharsis2018 said:Re: shareholders ---- honestly, that would not be a huge stretch at all. Lutronic is a small laser company compared to the bigger names - shares must be cheaper. Infini and Genius have been hyped up SOOOOOOOO much by specific acne scar doctors like Lim and Weiner and then echoed here - those who've taken the plunge with infini/genius (like me, 3k down the drain), have seen NO results.
It's so evil to take advantage of acne scar sufferers - ffs we are a vulnerable community as it is. Really angers me.
I really don't know why i'm seeing a difference now with these treatments. I don't know if it's the light CO2 peel after the RFM, or if it's RFM from a machine that comes from a reputable company like cutera. it's interesting for sure.... but also confusing lol
Lets analyze, what are the parameters for both the devices you had. One is depth of the needle it went before number of passes and the energys that was realeased. Can you give side by side what was the needle size the passes and current at each depth. Maybe something caused it to deepen.I could understand if laser was the case as it would cause two different output. Again the info is in details if really everything is same maybe co2 is helping in your case.
On 6/21/2022 at 11:20 PM, getsmart121 said:Lets analyze, what are the parameters for both the devices you had. One is depth of the needle it went before number of passes and the energys that was realeased. Can you give side by side what was the needle size the passes and current at each depth. Maybe something caused it to deepen.I could understand if laser was the case as it would cause two different output. Again the info is in details if really everything is same maybe co2 is helping in your case.
Nah it's not the parameters. I had rf done by dr weiner's office and it looked worst.
