Hey longtime lurker here @wombatstaywokecongrats on taking the phenol plunge. I think you look amazing.

That saidI get the sense youre a bit disappointed with your overall result, let down its not 100% flawless. I cant tell you how to feel about your skin until Ive walked in your shoes.Im sure we have allbeen through that gaslighting from day 1 scars through our entire journey from friends/family/strangers saying scars? what scars?or the you have scars but they dont matterbit.

Ive scoured the forum for other journeys and come across the BA days of treatment plans and was wondering if you feel as though you had done enough filling in the holes pre phenol and if that would have madea difference in your result?

6 hours ago, Samedeepwaterasyou said:

Hey longtime lurker here @wombatstaywokecongrats on taking the phenol plunge. I think you look amazing.

 

That saidI get the sense youre a bit disappointed with your overall result, let down its not 100% flawless. I cant tell you how to feel about your skin until Ive walked in your shoes.Im sure we have allbeen through that gaslighting from day 1 scars through our entire journey from friends/family/strangers saying scars? what scars?or the you have scars but they dont matterbit.

Ive scoured the forum for other journeys and come across the BA days of treatment plans and was wondering if you feel as though you had done enough filling in the holes pre phenol and if that would have madea difference in your result?

Howdy!

If you look at my first post in this thread where I detail my acne scar/skin journey, I'd say I did a good amount of "filling in the holes" i.e. scar untethering and collagen forming of scars through other modalities. I think the only thing I regret is that I didn't use my Derminator + suction method as much because I didn't know how to apply makeup at the time (~2015-2017)I may still revisit this. I'm not sure if it would've made a major difference in investing in more "filling in" procedures as you say because our scars and skin can only do so much. I was told by every dermatologist/scar specialist that your skin will only improve so much before you get diminishing returns. Your scars willalwaysbe there. It's just a matter of how bad, good, or worse we can make them out to be.

But overall I'm not entirely disappointed with the procedure. Scar and texture wise, I'm pretty satisfied. I feel more comfortable than five years ago when looking at my face. I wanted to get phenol because it would kill two birds with one stone for me: scars + hyperpigmentation.I'm more upset that phenol didn't really deliver for the latter as my face is still very much darker than the rest of my body, even my neck. This has been my angst if you haven't already noticed!

I'll protect my skin as much as possible and follow up with Rullan at about the five month mark to see what next steps should be. You can only get so frustrated over skin when there's bigger things on your plate everyday.

I hear you thanks so much for documenting this, its really huge for you to putyourself out there like this. Im incredibly grateful to ppl like you and shei for showing the rest of us a way forward.

1 hour ago, Samedeepwaterasyou said:

I hear you thanks so much for documenting this, its really huge for you to putyourself out there like this. Im incredibly grateful to ppl like you and shei for showing the rest of us a way forward.

Absolutely. I've always felt that I'd rather trust a fellow consumer's review on a procedure than that of a website of a doctor. It gives you more insight as they progress on what you're in for.

Might be too early to ask but would you consider getting a 2nd phenol peel? I'm almost at my 1 year mark (end of April).

45 minutes ago, gynoscar said:

Might be too early to ask but would you consider getting a 2nd phenol peel? I'm almost at my 1 year mark (end of April).

Wow, I didn't even know you had it done! Nice! I would like to, but I think per Rullan's office paperwork, the general full healing period is 6 months but the majority of the healing and de facto final result is at month 3.

I would like to get a 2nd phenol but I don't think it would be anytime in the near future. Possible 5 years from now or so. And possibly, maybe with a different practitioner who treats ethnic skin.

Another factor for me is figuring out the logistics of getting a second phenol peel. I have a client facing albeit remote job so I just can't hide and wear makeup for three months or so. It was already awkward as hell having to explain to coworkers why I'm as red as a tomato.

How are you results by the way? Are you happy with how it's turned out at the 10-12 month mark?

On 4/8/2022 at 12:27 PM, wombatstaywoke said:

I went to him in person for one consult on phenol and nothing more. I provided high quality photos of my acne scar/skin journey to him via his patient care coordinator and he approved for it.

When I state "every part of [my] skin" I mean to say every "bad part" has looked better except for hyperpigmentation which is probably PIH at this point. Scarring, texture, and fine lines have improved at least 40% I'd say.

What was the exact reason he denied you? The sooner the better. Not sure how lock semi-lockdown will last. I'm also assuming you have a remote job as well so take advantage of it!

At least 40% improvement. Oh man. That must be so nice. He had denied me at the time because he thought I needed to bring more scars to the surface with thetrio. He wanted me to perform three separate trio appointments prior to considering the phenol for me. Told me I was too young to potentially have my face a different pigment than my neck for the rest of my life (skin type 4).

the thing is though, since I went for the Trio with him in August 2021, Ive had two more sculptra sessions in Toronto and am going to be beginning a series of cutera secret PRO RFM on Monday (Ive also already had a series of infini RF done in 2020 and Ive had 3 sculptra already done in 2020 / 3 radiessedone in 2020-2021). Since august 2021, Iveseen countless more dermatologists in Toronto that have told me Im at that point of diminishing returns (none would consider me suitable for subcision)

Trying to arrange another virtual consult with his intake coordinator

if he denies me for phenol again.. I might just make the flight To Chula Vista fora second trio but honestly not in accordance with my needs at this point.
Dont have a remote job but Ill make it work! Lol Im determined.

Im sorry to hear that about the PIH. That sucks. Howmuch worse would you say the PIH gotten in comparison to before the peel?

thank you very much for your testimony. In practice, phenol peeling removes only very superficial scars. Did I get it right? Thanks in advance

9 hours ago, wombatstaywoke said:

Wow, I didn't even know you had it done! Nice! I would like to, but I think per Rullan's office paperwork, the general full healing period is 6 months but the majority of the healing and de facto final result is at month 3.

I would like to get a 2nd phenol but I don't think it would be anytime in the near future. Possible 5 years from now or so. And possibly, maybe with a different practitioner who treats ethnic skin.

Another factor for me is figuring out the logistics of getting a second phenol peel. I have a client facing albeit remote job so I just can't hide and wear makeup for three months or so. It was already awkward as hell having to explain to coworkers why I'm as red as a tomato.

How are you results by the way? Are you happy with how it's turned out at the 10-12 month mark?

The result has been great (maybe 60% improvements) especially my icepicks + boxscars. I think I'll create a post once I hit the 1year mark.

19 hours ago, Catharsis2018 said:

At least 40% improvement¦. Oh man. That must be so nice. He had denied me at the time because he thought I needed to bring more scars to the surface with the trio. He wanted me to perform three separate trio appointments prior to considering the phenol for me. Told me I was too young to potentially have my face a different pigment than my neck for the rest of my life (skin type 4). 
 

the thing is though, since I went for the Trio with him in August 2021, I™ve had two more sculptra sessions in Toronto and am going to be beginning a series of cutera secret PRO RFM on Monday (I™ve also already had a series of infini RF done in 2020 and I™ve had 3 sculptra already done in 2020 / 3 radiesse done in 2020-2021). Since august 2021, I™ve  seen countless more dermatologists in Toronto that have told me I™m at that point of diminishing returns (none would consider me suitable for subcision) 

Trying to arrange another virtual consult with his intake coordinator¦ 

if he denies me for phenol again.. I might just make the flight To Chula Vista for a second trio¦ but honestly not in accordance with my needs at this point. 
Don™t have a remote job but I™ll make it work! Lol I™m determined. 
 

I™m sorry to hear that about the PIH. That sucks. How much worse would you say  the PIH gotten in comparison to before the peel?

Oh, wow! You're coming from out of the country! When I was there on Day 1 for phenol, there was a family from Lebanon visiting Dr. Rullan. It's crazy how people will go out of their way to go see him, you included!

Some things that caught me while I was reading your current treatments: you hade RF done and then afterwards had a series of fillers? From my understanding, you should always delay fillers until the very end (even with RF) because it'll just diminish with time. I would continue to use at home treatments (TCA, microneedling, suction) as much as possible and if your budget allows RF. I personally think fillers are a waste of money if your scars aren't filled up to a certain degree, which from the info and tone you're telling me, isn't. 

Also, I wouldn't keep your skin improvement held hostage with Dr. Rullan. Yes, the trio is used to improve and prep scarred skin for phenol, but it's his way of prepping the skin. My suggestion would be to find cheaper practitioners that can do Erbium-subcision-phenol-cross together or separately at a cheaper price. Or if that doesn't work, find something somewhat similar. Document that and send it to him/patient coordinator and he should accept you after some time. 

That was my arguing point with Rullan: I listed out all of the treatments I've done since 2014 from at home to professional, along with photos, and the physician references. This coupled with the patient coordinator (Amy) who vouched for me to skip the series of trio treatments since my skin had already been through a lot in the past six or seven years. 

I know you may be taking it rough, but I'm sure he's only doing this to you because he wants not only for you to get the best result for your skin after the peel but to also protect his standing. There are, as you may well know, those reviewers who like to post reviews that "phenol was a waste of money cause my skin still has my scars and blah blah". 

As for PIH, it's not that my face got overall darker. My skin tone has improved a bit but not as much as I'd liked it to be given how much I spent. The PIH is usually around my mouth and eyes so I kinda have that raccoon with beard look, sadly. I'm told it fades away with time so I'm slowly using OTC lighteners like kojic acid soap and a vitamin C serum. It's also weird in a way because my skin feels smooth to touch even though I know my scars are still visibly there.

16 hours ago, suvvolo said:

thank you very much for your testimony. In practice, phenol peeling removes only very superficial scars. Did I get it right? Thanks in advance

 

Phenol is considered one of two deeps peels (the other being 40% TCA, I think). As a result, yes, it removes scars that have improved scar tissue laying underneath. I'd say this is a reason why it's so researched by acne scar sufferers because it "wipes the slate" clean.

11 hours ago, gynoscar said:

The result has been great (maybe 60% improvements) especially my icepicks + boxscars. I think I'll create a post once I hit the 1 year mark.

That's amazing! I'd say on a good day, I have about 60% improvement. When I don't look and feel like shit haha. Would you say you've seen progressive improvement after the 3-month mark? I remember reading that the peel continues to provide improvement up to a year and it lasts 10 years. But let's be real. Is that just marketing hype?

On 4/8/2022 at 12:15 PM, Catharsis2018 said:

I really want to get the procedure done soon. I have the money saved up, plus some. But its up to Rullan to give me the okay. Did you show him photos in person or virtually? How many times did you meet him before the phenol?

when you mean every part of your skin has improved what do you mean by that?

like PIH, fine lines faded, small scars very faint, better texture or something else?

What made you want to try phenol before dermabrasion?

On 4/10/2022 at 10:49 AM, wombatstaywoke said:

Oh, wow! You're coming from out of the country! When I was there on Day 1 for phenol, there was a family from Lebanon visiting Dr. Rullan. It's crazy how people will go out of their way to go see him, you included!

Some things that caught me while I was reading your current treatments: you hade RF done and then afterwards had a series of fillers? From my understanding, you should always delay fillers until the very end (even with RF) because it'll just diminish with time. I would continue to use at home treatments (TCA, microneedling, suction) as much as possible and if your budget allows RF. I personally think fillers are a waste of money if your scars aren't filled up to a certain degree, which from the info and tone you're telling me, isn't. 

Also, I wouldn't keep your skin improvement held hostage with Dr. Rullan. Yes, the trio is used to improve and prep scarred skin for phenol, but it's his way of prepping the skin. My suggestion would be to find cheaper practitioners that can do Erbium-subcision-phenol-cross together or separately at a cheaper price. Or if that doesn't work, find something somewhat similar. Document that and send it to him/patient coordinator and he should accept you after some time. 

That was my arguing point with Rullan: I listed out all of the treatments I've done since 2014 from at home to professional, along with photos, and the physician references. This coupled with the patient coordinator (Amy) who vouched for me to skip the series of trio treatments since my skin had already been through a lot in the past six or seven years. 

I know you may be taking it rough, but I'm sure he's only doing this to you because he wants not only for you to get the best result for your skin after the peel but to also protect his standing. There are, as you may well know, those reviewers who like to post reviews that "phenol was a waste of money cause my skin still has my scars and blah blah". 

As for PIH, it's not that my face got overall darker. My skin tone has improved a bit but not as much as I'd liked it to be given how much I spent. The PIH is usually around my mouth and eyes so I kinda have that raccoon with beard look, sadly. I'm told it fades away with time so I'm slowly using OTC lighteners like kojic acid soap and a vitamin C serum. It's also weird in a way because my skin feels smooth to touch even though I know my scars are still visibly there.

 

Phenol is considered one of two deeps peels (the other being 40% TCA, I think). As a result, yes, it removes scars that have improved scar tissue laying underneath. I'd say this is a reason why it's so researched by acne scar sufferers because it "wipes the slate" clean.

 

That's amazing! I'd say on a good day, I have about 60% improvement. When I don't look and feel like shit haha. Would you say you've seen progressive improvement after the 3-month mark? I remember reading that the peel continues to provide improvement up to a year and it lasts 10 years. But let's be real. Is that just marketing hype?

Yep. Unfortunately there are zero acne scar specialists in Canada, and I™m kind of over giving my money to local dermatologists who have a novice understanding of acne scarring haha.. so got to do what you got to do. That™s fair¦ I actually have a spreadsheet with all of my testaments, dates and settings, plus hundreds of photos, so maybe I need to email that over as well. I have my virtual consult scheduled for early May, going to try to convince Rullan™s office once again and yeah¦ if that doesn™t work.. might have to suffice with another trio. I agree with you about not holding my acne scar progress hostage to Rullans preferences. It™s just so hard to find another specialist with his level of expertise.. unless you know of any suggestions? I™d be appreciative of it x1000! Ugh I wish Amy was still around!! When did you have your consult? Seems like a while back if Amy was around 🙁 unfortunately the staff there now does not compare.. 

On 4/10/2022 at 12:17 PM, dirigo39 said:

 

What made you want to try phenol before dermabrasion?

Lol I™ve looked extensively into dermabrasion and reached out to a number of practitoners. I kept hearing that my scars aren™t suitable for the procedure/that I wouldn™t see any further improvement without much else detail. So I™ve kind of given up on dermabrasion for now¦. 

8 hours ago, Catharsis2018 said:

Yep. Unfortunately there are zero acne scar specialists in Canada, and Im kind of over giving my money to local dermatologists who have a novice understanding of acne scarring haha.. sogot to do what you got to do. Thats fair I actually have a spreadsheet with all of my testaments, dates and settings, plus hundreds of photos, so maybe I need to email that over as well. I have my virtual consult scheduled for early May, going to try to convince Rullans office once again and yeah if that doesnt work.. might have to suffice with anothertrio. I agree with you about not holding my acne scar progress hostage to Rullans preferences. Its just so hard to find another specialist with his level of expertise.. unless you know of any suggestions? Id be appreciative ofit x1000! Ugh I wish Amy was still around!! When did you have your consult? Seems like a while back if Amy was around :(unfortunately the staff there now does not compare..

Lol Ive looked extensively into dermabrasion and reached out to a number of practitoners.I kepthearing that my scars arent suitable for the procedure/that I wouldnt see any further improvementwithout much else detail. So Ive kind of given up on dermabrasion for now.

I had my in person consult with Amy + Dr. Rullan way back in February 2021. I spent almost 90 minutes there as opposed to the 30 minutes I was allowed. When I hear how poorly the staff is now, especially on the consult side, it really doesn't compare to how spoiled I and others were. The patient coordinator who I had wasn't doing the best job but she was doing her best. She seemed uninformed on a lot of the procedures and what the client should expect which Amy knewto a tee.

At least for phenol I can drop a name of a provider I saw and I'm sure they'll help out. PM me if you'd like that. If I go for a second one (probably not for a while) I'll try to go to him. For acne scarring, the best ones are either in thebig fourwe keep hearing about on this forum (Weiner, Rullan, Novick, and Lim). There are a good amount of acne scar specialists abroad. I went to Tijuana to get subcision done for like $150 using my shitty Spanish. There's also a good amount of scar specialists in Korea because East Asians are crazy about having the perfect skin so almost every clinic in Seoul will be a good bet for you!

On 4/13/2022 at 2:19 PM, Catharsis2018 said:

Yep. Unfortunately there are zero acne scar specialists in Canada, and Im kind of over giving my money to local dermatologists who have a novice understanding of acne scarring haha.. sogot to do what you got to do. Thats fair I actually have a spreadsheet with all of my testaments, dates and settings, plus hundreds of photos, so maybe I need to email that over as well. I have my virtual consult scheduled for early May, going to try to convince Rullans office once again and yeah if that doesnt work.. might have to suffice with anothertrio. I agree with you about not holding my acne scar progress hostage to Rullans preferences. Its just so hard to find another specialist with his level of expertise.. unless you know of any suggestions? Id be appreciative ofit x1000! Ugh I wish Amy was still around!! When did you have your consult? Seems like a while back if Amy was around :(unfortunately the staff there now does not compare..

Lol Ive looked extensively into dermabrasion and reached out to a number of practitoners.I kepthearing that my scars arent suitable for the procedure/that I wouldnt see any further improvementwithout much else detail. So Ive kind of given up on dermabrasion for now.

If money is no issue, then maybe try Dr. Emil in Denmark

May 2022 - 6 Month Post Op Final Review:

Total improvement from previous treatments in 2020 and 2021: ~60%

Let me first start off by saying it's crazy to think that it's been a whole six months since I decided to get the phenol peel with Dr. Rullan, not only to improve only acne scars but also my overall skin appearance. I hate to be clich© but time really does fly when you're having fun! ... staying indoors all day, away from friends, contemplating thoughts you shouldn't be thinking, looking at all the beautiful people and their photo shopped or not skin on social media ... ah, yes the final word!

Per Dr. Rullan's office, the perceived final result is usually around the 6 month mark after the procedure. I got this procedure done towards the tail end of December 2021. We'll take it from here since I haven't seen any drastic changes in  improvement and healing. I will say overall that I'm happy with what the phenol peel has done for my scarring but there are some things I wish could be better. 

The Good: 

The peel has done some amazing improvement in improving texture (+35-40%), creating collagen growth for scars of all types (+55-60% from previous treatment), reducing fine lines and some wrinkles (~+15% more on this later), and removing stubborn hyperpigmentation from superficial scars (+80%). I've noticed the hyperpigmentation around my eyes has improved a lot but the fine lines in the same area didn't improve as drastically as the research papers had suggested.

While I'm no dermatologist, I do firmly believe at least in the context of acne scars that this procedure should be the final weapon after the scars have been deteathered, max volume of collagen induced from both economical and professional procedures, and have had active acne in all forms controlled.

The Bad:

The healing time was a little very brutal. Thank goodness I got this done during the nascent period of lockdown in the US and at a time when remote work has finally been deemed acceptable. Healing on weeks 0-3 was very painful and from weeks 4-16 is full of itchiness, pain, embarrassing comments, odd stares at your RED tomato face, and a lot of white lies to tell your coworkers. I've never applied SPF 50 or used a face shield so much in my life but it's what you must do to protect your skin as it heals from possibly the strongest acid to be placed on the face (second to stomach acid). 

For those of you who are on your final step in the acne scar journey, after all the trials of (takes deep breath) ...

...at home microneedling,

...RF microneedling - Infini, Genius, Fractora Firm, anything with heat and needles and sh*t

...TCA Cross with all the percentages

...subcision with cannula here and Nokor here and there

...watching all the Dr. Lim videos 10x and Dr. Emer videos never cause he's the biggest ripoff

...reading endless dermatology and device reviews and going on this forum and getting half depressed and half motivated, and thinking about which credit card to fund this procedure for ... 

I'd say be prepared. Dermatologists know the skin well but only you know when you will be comfortable in your own skin and at what cost. Be mindful of everything I say here - from the price (~USD $6,000 excluding lodging, driver, and meal prep), the down time (3.5 months for redness to die down; 5-6 for complete improvement), to ensuring your skin has produced ample collagen, and the side effects. The price (imo) could've been cheaper but this office is in $outhern California and requires stringent medical staff in the room in addition to Dr. Rullan. Even my primary doctor was a little shocked that I would be shelling out this much money for an out-patient, cosmetic procedure. She doesn't get my my/our struggle.

The Ugly:

No procedure comes with out risk or side effect. And I still see that even after 6 months of vigilantly watching my skin in all kinds of lighting. Aside from a long downtime, the risks they outline are very apparent (at least for me) when I see my face. I have some hyperpigmentation around mouth and eye lids and some hypopigmentation around my mouth. I was well aware of this since I am skin type IV/V and Rullan made sure I was aware of it. He did highlight the improvements more than the side effects but what smart doctor/businessman wouldn't?

It's a little shocking but I'd say I take the good more than the bad (ugly?) in this case. Even in the best lighting, you can see these marks. Do I get down about it? A little. But it's barely recognizable at this point unless the flash is really strong. I'm currently using kojic acid as well as 4% HQ to help reduce it over time. 

Final thoughts:
I'm happy to say I'm over the hardest days of my acne scar/ skin journey.

I no longer get as much anxiety when looking in the mirror although I still do get uncomfortable when I hear the words "ugly" or "your face" uttered in a conversation that does or doesn't include me. I still see the look of half not-to-be-rude expressions on those who speak to me (family included). I guess that's a form of trauma/abuse/mental distress that only I can try to figure out how to get comfortable with.

Is my skin baby smooth of magazine/Instagram glossy perfect? About three light years away, yes. I'll be taking a break from getting any kind of scar treatment done for at least this year since this has been an expensive, time consuming, and emotional journey. I forgot that I have a life to live and better things to worry about! 

For next steps, I'm thinking about getting Pico laser to help correct any long lasting pigmentation issues - aka my second big concern. I'm also considering seeing if it would be worth doing at home microneedling here and there to help level out the remaining acne scars. Filler? I'm thinking about it. I do have two areas on my left cheek and temples that could use some plumping up but it's not too pressing for me at the moment. In overhead lighting I can still see my scars well but they've improved a lot. Like, A LOT.  I don't even bat an eye as much in seeing them there.

Getting a second or partial phenol peel is in question, but it probably won't be for at least a very long time. I just hate that I'm Asian and people actually think I look older because of the fine lines around my eyes. It should be the opposite!  Perhaps 5 or 10 years from now when I'll really need it. Sun cream anyone?

But to be honest, I'm kind of just okay and happy with where I'm at right now on this penultimate day in May 2022, enjoying a coffee, watching sports, and finding an airline ticket at an inflated ass price. 

I'm just grateful for the research, improvements from trial & error, and the vast amount of support on this forum. From the bottom of my heart and my then deepest acne scars, thank you all for sticking with me on this journey and hearing about it! 

Another special thanks to @shei514and @f93dfor leading the way in documenting this procedure. Your input had made me more assured!

holy shit.

If there were a scar improvements Hall of Fame, you would be a first ballot.

Did you lose beard hair from the phenol or was it patchy before also?

3 hours ago, laserorange said:

Did you lose beard hair from the phenol or was it patchy before also?

Patchy before. I've never been able to grow a full beard or a lot of facial hair haha

What % phenol does Rullan use ?

9 hours ago, Vidrar said:

What % phenol does Rullan use ?

I asked him this during consult and he never disclosed it. It's too esoteric for his patients to understand the concentrations and mix of what he's putting on the skin. He does use a modified version of what's considered standard. See his paper on his website and that should give you an idea.

On 5/30/2022 at 4:07 PM, wombatstaywoke said:

May 2022 - 6 Month Post Op Final Review:

Total improvement from previous treatments in 2020 and 2021: ~60%

Let me first start off by saying it's crazy to think that it's been a whole six months since I decided to get the phenol peel with Dr. Rullan, not only to improve only acne scars but also my overall skin appearance. I hate to be clich© but time really does fly when you're having fun! ... staying indoors all day, away from friends, contemplating thoughts you shouldn't be thinking, looking at all the beautiful people and their photo shopped or not skin on social media ... ah, yes the final word!

Per Dr. Rullan's office, the perceived final result is usually around the 6 month mark after the procedure. I got this procedure done towards the tail end of December 2021. We'll take it from here since I haven't seen any drastic changes in  improvement and healing. I will say overall that I'm happy with what the phenol peel has done for my scarring but there are some things I wish could be better. 

 

The Good: 

The peel has done some amazing improvement in improving texture (+35-40%), creating collagen growth for scars of all types (+55-60% from previous treatment), reducing fine lines and some wrinkles (~+15% more on this later), and removing stubborn hyperpigmentation from superficial scars (+80%). I've noticed the hyperpigmentation around my eyes has improved a lot but the fine lines in the same area didn't improve as drastically as the research papers had suggested.

While I'm no dermatologist, I do firmly believe at least in the context of acne scars that this procedure should be the final weapon after the scars have been deteathered, max volume of collagen induced from both economical and professional procedures, and have had active acne in all forms controlled.

The Bad:

The healing time was a little very brutal. Thank goodness I got this done during the nascent period of lockdown in the US and at a time when remote work has finally been deemed acceptable. Healing on weeks 0-3 was very painful and from weeks 4-16 is full of itchiness, pain, embarrassing comments, odd stares at your RED tomato face, and a lot of white lies to tell your coworkers. I've never applied SPF 50 or used a face shield so much in my life but it's what you must do to protect your skin as it heals from possibly the strongest acid to be placed on the face (second to stomach acid). 

For those of you who are on your final step in the acne scar journey, after all the trials of (takes deep breath) ...

...at home microneedling,

...RF microneedling - Infini, Genius, Fractora Firm, anything with heat and needles and sh*t

...TCA Cross with all the percentages

...subcision with cannula here and Nokor here and there

...watching all the Dr. Lim videos 10x and Dr. Emer videos never cause he's the biggest ripoff

...reading endless dermatology and device reviews and going on this forum and getting half depressed and half motivated, and thinking about which credit card to fund this procedure for ... 

I'd say be prepared. Dermatologists know the skin well but only you know when you will be comfortable in your own skin and at what cost. Be mindful of everything I say here - from the price (~USD $6,000 excluding lodging, driver, and meal prep), the down time (3.5 months for redness to die down; 5-6 for complete improvement), to ensuring your skin has produced ample collagen, and the side effects. The price (imo) could've been cheaper but this office is in $outhern California and requires stringent medical staff in the room in addition to Dr. Rullan. Even my primary doctor was a little shocked that I would be shelling out this much money for an out-patient, cosmetic procedure. She doesn't get my my/our struggle.

The Ugly:

No procedure comes with out risk or side effect. And I still see that even after 6 months of vigilantly watching my skin in all kinds of lighting. Aside from a long downtime, the risks they outline are very apparent (at least for me) when I see my face. I have some hyperpigmentation around mouth and eye lids and some hypopigmentation around my mouth. I was well aware of this since I am skin type IV/V and Rullan made sure I was aware of it. He did highlight the improvements more than the side effects but what smart doctor/businessman wouldn't?

It's a little shocking but I'd say I take the good more than the bad (ugly?) in this case. Even in the best lighting, you can see these marks. Do I get down about it? A little. But it's barely recognizable at this point unless the flash is really strong. I'm currently using kojic acid as well as 4% HQ to help reduce it over time. 

 

Final thoughts:
I'm happy to say I'm over the hardest days of my acne scar/ skin journey.

I no longer get as much anxiety when looking in the mirror although I still do get uncomfortable when I hear the words "ugly" or "your face" uttered in a conversation that does or doesn't include me. I still see the look of half not-to-be-rude expressions on those who speak to me (family included). I guess that's a form of trauma/abuse/mental distress that only I can try to figure out how to get comfortable with.

Is my skin baby smooth of magazine/Instagram glossy perfect? About three light years away, yes. I'll be taking a break from getting any kind of scar treatment done for at least this year since this has been an expensive, time consuming, and emotional journey. I forgot that I have a life to live and better things to worry about! 

For next steps, I'm thinking about getting Pico laser to help correct any long lasting pigmentation issues - aka my second big concern. I'm also considering seeing if it would be worth doing at home microneedling here and there to help level out the remaining acne scars. Filler? I'm thinking about it. I do have two areas on my left cheek and temples that could use some plumping up but it's not too pressing for me at the moment. In overhead lighting I can still see my scars well but they've improved a lot. Like, A LOT.  I don't even bat an eye as much in seeing them there.

Getting a second or partial phenol peel is in question, but it probably won't be for at least a very long time. I just hate that I'm Asian and people actually think I look older because of the fine lines around my eyes. It should be the opposite!  Perhaps 5 or 10 years from now when I'll really need it. Sun cream anyone?

But to be honest, I'm kind of just okay and happy with where I'm at right now on this penultimate day in May 2022, enjoying a coffee, watching sports, and finding an airline ticket at an inflated ass price. 

I'm just grateful for the research, improvements from trial & error, and the vast amount of support on this forum. From the bottom of my heart and my then deepest acne scars, thank you all for sticking with me on this journey and hearing about it! 

Another special thanks to @shei514and @f93dfor leading the way in documenting this procedure. Your input had made me more assured!

 

Thank you thank you thank you for continuing to update us throughout your phenol peel recovery process. Hearing from members of the acne scar community is a huge resource in others trying to figure out their next treatment. Do you think you can also take some photos outdoors to post here? Just so we can see the difference in various lighting.  You mentioned you haven™t seen any drastic changes from December, would you say others have seen the difference? Has anyone mentioned anything about your scarring/it™s improvement?

you also mentioned ~15% improvement with fine lines/wrinkles, is this only because of hyperpigmentation you™ve been dealing with? Would you say your skin feels years younger or the same as it was before the phenol? 

5 hours ago, Catharsis2018 said:

Thank you thank you thank you for continuing to update us throughout your phenol peel recovery process. Hearing from members of the acne scar community is a huge resource in others trying to figure out their next treatment. Do you think you can also take some photos outdoors to post here? Just so we can see the difference in various lighting.  You mentioned you haven™t seen any drastic changes from December, would you say others have seen the difference? Has anyone mentioned anything about your scarring/it™s improvement?

 

you also mentioned ~15% improvement with fine lines/wrinkles, is this only because of hyperpigmentation you™ve been dealing with? Would you say your skin feels years younger or the same as it was before the phenol? 

I added some photos from last week that has darker lighting and indoors. The photos you saw up top were in natural lighting, indoors, on a non-cloudy day so that's the most "in-person" feel you'll get. As I've stated, you can still see the scars, but in any lighting the scars are smoothed out to a significant degree. Places I frequent the most in public (i.e. stores, gym) I hardly notice my scars as much.

My friends have noticed that skin looks smoother and there are some fine lines here and there but you really need to look like shit to be able to see them (i.e. no sleep, super sweaty, in the sun, bad food, etc.). Others have said that "Hey wombatstaywoke, you look...different... I don't know what is. But you look good". 

I wouldn't say it feels years younger but the elasticity and appearance make it look like I'm 5 years younger. This is just in the skin department though. There are other factors what makes you look older or younger. So my face structure, lack of fat in the face from natural age process and diet, and slowly sunken in eyes are all factors in that. 

I might do a spot treatment for phenol just for the eyes. I get offended every now and then when I hear that people think I look older lol

Let me know if you still need the paperwork for Rullan if their PC hasn't sent it to you yet. 

@wombatstaywokeany special stuff u did before and after the peel to optimize healing? did u have to get vbeams at some point for persistent redness?

1 hour ago, laserorange said:

@wombatstaywokeany special stuff u did before and after the peel to optimize healing? did u have to get vbeams at some point for persistent redness?

Before peel, I didn't use anything special. I just prepped my skin with kojic acid and vitamin c the week before. This is because I have ethnic skin and massive precaution is taken to reduce PIH.

After peel, it's basically just following the protocol that's outlined in the post-op doc: stay out of the sun, applying the special ointment (see main thread), and using a gentle, pH neutral cleanser.

The redness will go away with time so there's no real need for any kind of laser. Redness lasts for 3-4 months depending on most. It's really just best to wait it out!

Hi. Thank you so much for sharing your experience with other scar sufferers. So well-put and documented. For me anyone who has undergone this procedure is a hero. Do you have any additional thoughts maybe? Do you see any further improvement now that you are getting closer to the one year post mark?

Edit: Just wanted to add.. I was having a good look at your photos and the improvement is really great in my opinion! Your right side is almost scarfree.