After 2,5 months healed, marks after Nokor remain.I do not see theimprovement after Sub.
1.I read that Suctioning after Sub could improve the results, good examples on owndoc. It was not mentioned by the Drs so I did not do it after Subcisions. Did somebody try long Suctioning after Sub or after Derminator as described at Owndoc Derminator site?
2.If you stretchthe skin around the scar and it remainsthen it is tetheredand if it disappears then it is not tethered.U do Subcision to cut the tethers.I stretch all scars and almost all disappear, so they are not tethered...Do u do Sub for Not tethered scars?
It feelsthat there isno tethering,it is a lack of tissue in superficial skin layer...then Sublifts the area under the scarand then itgoesdown after the healing at the same form..
Then it leaves dermaneedlingwith tca paint/cross and punch techniques...
tca paint: Do you paint the bottom of the scar or the edges as well? I read the article where the protocol was Dermapen 1,5mm with tca paint 15-20% in the Same application. Not alternating. I tried on one small scar and I see the improvement so I am going to try on the bigger area.
@SibelI have helped you with your plan before. I think you need to see Dr Emil.
Thank you BA. It is what I thought to stitch the Nokor cut.. Chu did not do it(..I also had entry pointsfor the threads, they healed fine.
I did not mean Chinese Cupping. I thought about the pump like Aspiveninfor sucking the insects bites, u can do it for the one scar at a time.
It was really sad to understand that if smthgoes wrong after the procedure Chu wont care. Also the fact u have to pay extra for prp for now... and the same package for everyone...
I still do not understand, if the scars are not tethered do they need to be subcised or not? How the Dr can understand that? I would like to understand for myself to repeat Sub with filler or not... or just filler... or it still should be done to any boxcar to create the pocket under the scar?
I read about Dermapen and tca paint 15% at the Samesession in one of the articleson researchgate. So Microneedling could be done with tca cross 90% for the boxcars as Chu did at the Same session and it could not be done with the tca paint 15% at the Samesession?
@SibelHi Sibel I do not agree, especially again with your case to try these risky"new" procedures. There is a reason we do not do things at the same time. It causes inflammation, scarring, dermatitis, side effects, infection. What are white papers, they are Dr's trying to prove a theory. Basically a idea they want to be known for. Unless there are many papers proving the same thing then it's basically unproven in a larger population and false. They are not taking into account your unique issues and histology of prior treatment, healing, results, and desires. I have seen patients who received scarring doing these multi procedures (a few patients went to the ER after this), hypropigmentation or loss of pigment and other complications. The creator of miconeedling, who has written many books for professionals clearly says he think's it's crazy all the ingredients that are used after microneedling or modifying the procedure to be used with other treatments. You can microneedle at home also (buy a dermiantor, why worry about having someone do a Dermapen which damages skin also), so I don't know why one would peel at the same time. I would never ever consider this for you with everything I know about your case.
Chinese cupping is the same thing as Aspivenin for insect bites, ... it depends on the size and the pressure. Certain devices with not enough pressure will cause nothing to happen. If one is sensitive of course they can bruise. IF you wish to try it be aware of the warning I gave you will stay bruised for a month at the site of the suctioning, that is the trade off for not getting filler.
As you state you may not have tethered scars, Emil would have to inspect personally to see. I think your main issue is again pre-mature aging. Many your age would get some vials of Sculptra for age related fat/bone loss, and perhaps a face lift if there was excess tissues. I know your sensitivities and the Dr will have to navigate this. Chu was not a good choice for your case as he does generalized treatment.
It's not hard to understand with Chu, ... he does a procedure that works on all but 5% of his client population. He does not believe in after care, skin products, or have the time to do follow up. His prices are dirt cheap compared to many. PRP is very expensive to do and time consuming. Come to the USA you would be paying thousands. Goto Emil or a Dr who can give you more time. I want you to consult with a few Dr's and not just treat.
Those scars need a plastic surgeon to do excision - closure, so they can be made as small as possible using their special stitching skills.
You probably just need filler and lots of volume.
Please go consult a plastic surgeon, see what he says, ... see the recommendations he makes. See a few. Emil is another option.
No with your healing making a pocket and filler will not do it. Or your subcision areas would have just healed. Laser is also aggressive to your sensitive skin type. We don't just do things to any scar type.
90% TCA can damage your skin if you cannot heal from subcision entry points.
IF your determined to do these procedures, you take the risk and liability. Have them try it on one spot first and see how you heal.
Hi dear @BloomingWaspI have read that someone had done TCA cross3 times and had some improvements. Then some of herscars cameback after few years. Have you had anything like this too? I see that you and great improvements with TCA cross but did the scars come back after few years? Or the improvements was permanent?
Looking forward to hear from you.
Thank you in Advance.
Thank you BA for this good discussion. Yes I can only try the combination of treatments on one scar and see how it develops. I have microneedled with Deminator alone for 6 times for the past summer and another 4 during a year.. every time I peel....my experience that needling on its own does not do much for the scars...widened them...the combination is needed..
for the suction again I try a couple of scars...together with Derminator..awareof brusing
I keep excision in mind but not a single surgeon I have visited did not want to try it because of the place on the cheek...also mostlythey are just not interested in acne scars, too many detailed procedures, long treatments, dealing with damaged skin, nervous patients,the result is under the question...so much better to do the nose/lift etc. job, good money, satisfied customer quickly. Certainly I will try to see more but no hopes
@SibelYour welcome, ... yes you can try it on one spot. As you know Derminator is a at home procedure we do before Dr's procedures. Widening them is ok, if it is also raising them then you resurface the texture.
Perhaps just see the plastic surgeons for the excisions or they call it scar revision, not for the acne scar treatments. Many Dr's in Europe do Punch excision, I cannot say how good they are at it, as it's very dependent on skill, you can try it on one.
See Emil for scars, and a Dr for Excision. Be careful he will do multiple things if you let him, so just say what you want and where.
I visited Dr.Emil today. Had Subcision(Cannula) with the filler(Belotero) done. Dr.Emil listened to me, examined the scars in theupper harsh light(exactly that light which shows the scars in the most bad way), took the pictures. All friendly, attentiveand professional... My main questionswere:Should I repeat Sub+filler if I have already done 4 Subwith no result? Punch techniques for the certain scars before repeating Sub.
Dr.Emil said that he saw/felttethered scars!That first he needsto do the Sub.And agreed that surgical options could be the option for later. And that the lasers are Not my option, may be for certain areas(nose) for later.
The cheeks were done without numbing with the smallerneedle(not Nokor) close to the surface. Not comfortable but no pain. The forehead was done with anaesthetic injection(painful) and Cannula tonnes Sub followed the filler(no pain).
Tca spot 85% was done on two places. To see how it goes. Very accurate right to the floor of the scar.
I heardthe sound of poppingtethersall the time andwas pleased to see how much the scars went up. I could not believe that the majority of the scars were not Subcised by Chu at all!! All took about 2 hours. And in the end Dr.Emil thought that another cheek needed more Cannula Sub so he gave me another appointment for tmr.The price for everything was 1000euro(including tmr).
Very positive experience!After Chu it was such a difference that I could not believe it!
I hope that it will be an improvement this time. The swelling is mild, no pain, see some bruising. No using ice afterwards not to push the filler out of place.
The reception ladies andThilde who organised my appwerevery nice and helpful. The klinik is clean with well equipped cabinets and nice waiting room with the drink.
There is a pleasant walk in the park near the Klinik. The closest hotel is BestWestern 20 min walk. Odense is a lovely place and because of not much swelling and no pain I can spend 2 days walking around instead of staying in like it was with previous Subs.
Has another positive visit to Dr.Emil. I have got 2 cheeks subsided in the end and a bit more filler in both of the cheeks..(no charge). More swollen but absolutely bearable with a bit of make up and plaster. Now just to heal and see. Next app in September.
No emotional stress, feel better after the procedure. Positive in all aspects.
I'm happy foto tour Sibel! Hopefully for you there is some light at the end of the tunnel. He is really nice 
I probably visit him in September as well. Did you go by plane?
1 minute ago, Noa27 said:I'm happy foto tour Sibel! Hopefully for you there is some light at the end of the tunnel. He is really nice
I probably visit him in September for the third time as well. Did you go by plane?
I add here my experience with dr Emil
Definitely positive, he started by checking my skin under the harshest lighting and marked the area that needed subcision
Then he performed TCA CROSS with 85% tca acid on a lot of scars, he said that the scars on the forehead can be fully healed with only one treatment. Ice pick scars on the cheeks are harder to treat and need 4 treatments. It wasn't painful, I could only feel a mild sting
After than he injected the anesthetic for subcision. That was the most painful part, I felt a pretty intense stinging/burningbut it's normal
He performed cannula subcision meticulouslyto my tethered scars, and he used the Nokor to one scarthat was very fibrotic on my cheek. He said it's better to perform again subcision but only after many months.
Lastly, he injected the scars he subcized with filler (Restylane)
Now I'm pretty swollen, will see the results in the coming weeks.
Emil was nice and polite, would recommend without a doubt. He also didn't push lasers on me. Actually I was the one who said a fully ablative Co2 laser could be nice as a final touch
Arriving to his clinic isn't that hard....once you land at Copenaghen's airport, you go downstairs to take the train to Odense.....and from there it's a 30 minutes walk to his clinic
I visited Dr. Henningsen too, nice guy, cool clinic, he is professional you can see that. Hedid subs with cannula and filler , i ll what results will be, hedid it without anestesia, it was a ride lol.
The "worst" thing about subsicion i think is the fact, that when u re swollen all your scars are gone, but you know that after swelling goes down they will reappear so u just pray that they reappear in better condition so will see. 🙂
18 hours ago, SimpleMutton said:I add here my experience with dr Emil
Definitely positive, he started by checking my skin under the harshest lighting and marked the area that needed subcision
Then he performed TCA CROSS with 85% tca acid on a lot of scars, he said that the scars on the forehead can be fully healed with only one treatment. Ice pick scars on the cheeks are harder to treat and need 4 treatments. It wasn't painful, I could only feel a mild sting
After than he injected the anesthetic for subcision. That was the most painful part, I felt a pretty intense stinging/burningbut it's normal
He performed cannula subcision meticulouslyto my tethered scars, and he used the Nokor to one scarthat was very fibrotic on my cheek. He said it's better to perform again subcision but only after many months.
Lastly, he injected the scars he subcized with filler (Restylane)
Now I'm pretty swollen, will see the results in the coming weeks.
Emil was nice and polite, would recommend without a doubt. He also didn't push lasers on me. Actually I was the one who said a fully ablative Co2 laser could be nice as a final touch
Arriving to his clinic isn't that hard....once you land at Copenaghen's airport, you go downstairs to take the train to Odense.....and from there it's a 30 minutes walk to his clinic
I wonder what het means with many months. My previous subcision was in the beginning in February this year and I've booked an appointment in September. I wonder if thats appropriate.
18 minutes ago, Noa27 said:I wonder what het means with many months. My previous subcision was in the beginning in February this year and I've booked an appointment in September. I wonder if thats appropriate.
I think that 7 months is enough, the filler that he put as a buffer lasts 6-9 months I think
I will visit him again before the end of the year, probably around October/November
2 minutes ago, SimpleMutton said:I think that 7 months is enough, the filler that he put as a buffer lasts 6-9 months I think
I will visit him again before the end of the year, probably around October/November
Nice
About staying, there are a lot airbNb's in and around the center of Odense. You could stay the night there much cheaper than it is at a hotel.
Nice to hear that other people had positive experience. I am going back to Emil in September exactly in 3 months, for me it is optimal. After 2 weeks I healed ok, got a pigment but it is always like this after the procedure. UnfortunatelyI do not see much changes( My stubborn chicken pox scars on the left cheek are the same,kind of softer though because of the filler. I more and more sure that only punch excision could make the difference. Will see how it goes in 2+months.
50 minutes ago, Sibel said:Nice to hear that other people had positive experience. I am going back to Emil in September exactly in 3 months, for me it is optimal. After 2 weeks I healed ok, got a pigment but it is always like this after the procedure. UnfortunatelyI do not see much changes( My stubborn chicken pox scars on the left cheek are the same,kind of softer though because of the filler. I more and more sure that only punch excision could make the difference. Will see how it goes in 2+months.
You got pigment ? After TCA cross or subs ?
56 minutes ago, Sibel said:Nice to hear that other people had positive experience. I am going back to Emil in September exactly in 3 months, for me it is optimal. After 2 weeks I healed ok, got a pigment but it is always like this after the procedure. UnfortunatelyI do not see much changes( My stubborn chicken pox scars on the left cheek are the same,kind of softer though because of the filler. I more and more sure that only punch excision could make the difference. Will see how it goes in 2+months.
Emil told me that you don't see much of a change after the first sub. It is the upcoming subs that really matters.
I'm curious, if I'm not seeing much improvement or raising of my boxcar/saucer indents 3 months after my sub, would it still be wise to go in for another round? Surely by 3 months collagen would have had enough time to fill it in somewhat. I'm just unsure if my indents are purely atrophic and there's no more or very little tethering hence the lack of results from subcision.
7 hours ago, Sibel said:Yes I have got pigment after Subs. On that places where there were the bruises.
If to consider Emils Sub as the 1st Sub done properly then I have to wait and see... in the same time I have already done 4 Subs before Emil with no result..it should be 3+ Inbetween the treatments.
Pigment after subs ? Is this possible ? Never heard of that , maybe i dont understand what u mean by pigment ? Is it like hyperpigmentation ? I am 7 days after subs with Emil and I have areas where theres like blood under skin still, its like when someone punch u , i think it will go away with time , maybe week or two .
Miro,Yeswhere were the blood and bruises, these places became hyperpigmented(brownin colour). I have experienced this before and this goesaway in a month or so.
Oh, JelloG, I asked this question numerous times. Here and to the Drs.If there is no result after 1-3 Subs should we do more? I have not found the person who did 8 Subs and said that it helped or not.Everyone stops after 3,4.... Are there any more tethers left? They say the scars reattache every time after every Sub but not fully...how can you check it?...nobody could tell for sure..
Emil did Sub with cannula and I watched at the mirroralmost all time and hewas very precise with the scars trying to undermine them closer to the surface. Spent 40+ min doing this with Cannula. So no doubt this time Sub was done right.And it was the 1st time with him. Athe moment I do not see any results, the scars are just softer...collagen regrowth? Doubt it more and more..will discuss with Emil again..
I feel that it is a lack of tissue mostly in the superficial level of the skinand by doing Sub we undercut the whole area under the scar but this does not change the superficial difference in between the floor and the edges. This leaves us with superficial procedures: dermapen, cross/paint, suction. And punch techniques.
Surprisingly to many, there is no risk of PIH after subcision, as everything happens UNDER the skin in the deep dermis and subcutis. Apart from small incision points, the skin surface is intact.Well this is from Dr. Henningsen .
My opinion :
Collagen will regrow but its question how it affects acne scars, some scars respond better some worse.
For tethered scars you simply need to go through few rounds of subcision, what else u re gonna do ? As far as i am concerned rolling scars respond best to subcision and filler, so I decided to go 3-4 rounds of subcision and filler, and then at the end maybe laser as final touch, but I ll consult doctor about this, and then thats it for me, i doubt theres anything else i can do for my scars, i give it a time and good doctor that specializes in acne scars revision, and see how it goes and what results will be, and then I move on until someone finds miracle solution 🙂