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So after 3 months im done with my study and wanna take 6 months off for treatments. I live in europe so there are only 2 options for me, Emil or Chu. Emil does subcision, fillers and laser (fully ablative). Chu does subcision, microneedling/prp and from what ive heared no fillers. Correct me if im wrong.
What is my best option based on pictures ive included? I wanna do my research thoroughly to make the best decision.
To be completely honest, you are obsessing yourself with something so minor. This is not healthy for yourself and in a way disrespectful towards people who deal with real acne scars that will hardly heal. You have too much free time buddy, take a look at my scars, those are real acne scars that people notice right away and look at whenever i meet them. A little perspective is good now and then.
Respect for both. Listen to BA. Your scars are not hard to improve, nor do you need downtime. Vertical subcision with BOTOX should improve your scars by 30% with one session. This 'job' without the hand holding will take 3-5 minutes at most. Vertical attachment can be broken manually, Botox relaxes the muscles tethering the scars down. Evident in both pictures. 2 sessions then revaluate with photos. Take a step back, and think anatomy. Feel your forehead area. 1.5 mm from skin to bone. In this 1.5 mm space there are the following anatomical structures- epidermis - 100 plus microns, dermis, SC fat, muscle (frontalis mm) ,perisoteum, bone..... scars are in the muscle to dermal space. 1 mm of working space. Vertical microneedling MANUALLY to divots on angled photos in addition to muscle relaxant will get the job done. Emil and Chu may have different approaches, each specialist has their own preferred methods. Just sharing my literature review.... Im no expert (wish I did a dozen acne scar revision procedures a day, but I wish... ), follow the guidance of Emil and Chu... wish you well.
@Noa27have you done your sub with Prof Chu?
I had my second sub with Chu and on my third day the bruises are yellow already :-O They are fading much more quickly than with the first sub (w Emil) and are just ... smaller... paler.. and no bumps at all.
Why? I dont think it is a matter of subcision performed "right" or "wrong" but the steps after the sub itself- Emil just pressed down on the subcised areas with an icepack for like 60 seconds and that was it. Chu, on the other hand, had the nurse press down on it really haaard and massage the subcised area - I am talking about really hard massage - for 20 minutes! He told me this is really important step after sub in order to prevent creation of blood clots and lumps and if someone does not do it, then they dont perform subcision correctly :-O
(PS: truth is after my first subcision I had both bumps and much more aggresive bruises. both were done with Nokor, by the way)
Well, either way, you will heal even if you get lumps and bruises, question is... which one will you benefit from more with regards to scars lifting?
IMHO, try sub with filler now. I am going for filler myself on the third sub.
@Noa27Sorry Noa had to move your post, as it's was in someone else's thread. From the pics you sent before I don't recall seeing your scars clearly. I need to see the shadows your scars make with a flashlight or directional lighting. So we know if subcision is even worth pursuing at this point. These treatments are not general treatments and must be customized to each person's condition. I will be happy to advise if you post here or message me. Thanks,
BA
fair enough, I might have had more fibriosis and resistance with the first case, very likely so actually
9 hours ago, Obi wan said:but I know Emil's technique, as he was taught by Chu.
how do we know this, btw? I mentioned him to Chu, didnt seem to remember him/know who I talk about. mmm.
@eva_li which of the doctors you liked better? I guess Chu will be no use for me because he don't do fillers. I already had subcision with prp and that didn't do much.
Hi, I have a mix of rolling and box car scars that according to a Dr in my country are tethered so I'm a good candidate for subcision and he agreed to use fillers.
I read about Dr Chu and it is considered one of the best with acne scars.
Does anyone know why he doesn't want to use fillers with subcision to avoid fibrous attachment to re-build? So he thinks it's unnecessary?
I read that subcision is a simple and safe procedure so I'm thinking to stick with my doctor even if there are no opinions about him online.
Might be because he does nhs and they leave filler out as it can add to cost.he has a sectetary who might do it but i am unsure without trawling through the forum,BA knows more and more clued up.Theres suction with a cheapish ebay suction/cupping set,it works but got to be stringent and a good candidate for suction (my own experience)
He works in a private clinic now so I dont believe it has anything to do with NHS.. When I asked him he told me he doesn't believe in fillers as they tend to relocate/ cause issues etc.. For tethering he suggested PRP.. I advise you to combine your subcision with filler, I wish I would have done that instead of the Chu's treatment which did not give me any result.. Can your local doc do that? (My scars are also mostly rolling btw)
thanks for the answers!
@Nina22 my doc is Giovanni Salti in Italy.
I don't want to use a permanent filler so the possible issues won't last forever if I'm unlucky.
So do you used PRP as spacer and it didn't work well?
He doesn't like fillers in general even HA fillers thatare not permanent and many others in here, including me, do like them.. PRP didn't work for me because it doesn't act as a filler it just helps you heal faster according to some.. He only subcised 4 of my scars instead of manymore asI would like and I did not get a visible improvement likewith filler before, so I was not happy.. Next time I want to do subcision combined with filler as well..
Hey everyone I am a 32 year old femalehaving suffered with acne scars for 6 years. I am about to see prof Chu at his private clinic in London on Wednesday. Will post some before and after pics later.
Best of luck. I'm hoping to visit Chu soon myself, so please do share your experience!
Hey everyone,
I had my appointment today with professor Chu. He is a lovely and caring doctor. He told me I have a mixture of rolling and boxcar scars which are on my cheeks the right cheek being worse. I will have dermapen, subcision and tca cross done at the end of the month. Feel excited to start this journey of improving my scars which have held me back so much. Thanks to the suppport of you all. I will keep you posted of my journey! Currently using retinol 1% at night and vitamin c in the morning with plenty of sunscreen. Eating lots of fruit, veg and protein to help my body build collagen hoping this will help my recovery.
Hello, I didn't really have much pigmentation at all. There was one spot that kept rescabbing- i showed it to dr chu who suggested it was a vascular reaction and cauterized it for me. That turned quite red but faded after a couple of months.
All in all I'm very happy with the treatment. I've actually got a few new acne scars since- nothing major- and if they don't fade in a month or two I will probably get them crossed.
Hi everyone,
I have been reading the forum for a long time, learned a lot of useful info, now I need your advice how bad the scars are.
I am 45 and been battling with acne and scars since 19,20. I had a hard case of Herpes Zoster on the left side of the face, which left first scars. Then with years the situation got gradually worse coming to cysts in the age of 28. I used all poss treatments and was put on Roaccutane. The first course cleared face, dekolte area and the top of the back and shoulders. Unfortunately it came back to the face after around 8 months and I had to take another roa course. Every time it cleared and then came back around after half a year. I took roa 5 times. The 3D course was long in a small dosage, it helped the most. 4 and 5 were short 2-3 months a year in a small dosage. So I decided if nothing except roa helps so I may stay on it for the rest of my life once a year. Around 38 I stopped, the cysts stopped(hope forever), I still have outbreaks but no road is needed. Roawas my best saver in spite all aside effects. Now the skin is thin and heals badly.
At 28 I have several scars mostly from Zoster but the continued inflammations at the same places just left more scars. The outbreaks inbetweenthe roa courses added scars. I could not start doing scars treatment while on roa. After roa the skin became thin, sensitive and every even tiny spot left a scar or a mark. The scars bothered me but somehow I partially learned to live with them. After 40 with aging the scars became deeper and more noticeable. I started to see old shallow scars I did not see before. Aging it not easy, aging with scars is awful. I have mostly boxcars and some rolling, the middle of the forehead and upper cheeks, some scars on the nose,these years I had following:
- Lasers Genesis, Fraxel, Mixto, Erbium, Candella. Done on the scared places. CO2 was not done due to the thin skin and bad experience with others lasers.No improvement. Lasers are for shallow small scars but the risks overcome the pluses, would not do ever again. Temporal results(max 2 years)if any, wont fill the scar.Developed dry wrinkled skin, pigment, long healing, outbreak after every treatment. No more lasers. The waste of money and time.
- TCA peel. Just repeated the surface, zero for the scars.
- Fibroblasts injections(6)did nothing.
- Microdermabrasion- with machine and sandpaper- zero.
- Lipofilling. Absolute waste. All dissolved after 3m. No grafts survived. Could work for bigger indented areas but not for individual chicken pox alike scars. All fillers are temporal. To fill in the individual scar precisely and not to get the button effectis very difficult. The surgeon was professional and warned me that fat is unpredictable and could fully dissolve. Also he did subcision on the main scars with no effect. He also use dermapen for the better vascularization of the fat which damaged the texture a lot.
- Subcision. One with fat grafts and one with cannula on the forehead with Dr.Huysmann, did nothing, did not return to him because he tried to push me to Erbium in its of the fact I explained why I do not consider lasers any more.
- TCA Cross. Tried on two scarswith Dr.Safonov, together with microdermabrasion. Healed 2 weeks, after the scabs fell off it were much deeper holes. Healed to same state how it was before and became whitish in the middle.
- Microneedling Derminator2. 6 times on the forehead and 3 the cheeks. With single needling on the main scars and suction. All the scars became wider and more visible. The texture of the skin worsened more, it is lot like small cuts now. I used tretinoin after the sessions, copper peptide serum, vitC.I use tretinoin regularly in courses.
Now understand that not much left. I think that subcision was not performed enough or right.
I wrote to Pr.Chu with pics. He send the treatment plan: PRP+microneedling(FNS dermapen)+Subcision +tca cross for boxcars. All done in one session.The treatments I tried before but not in combination. He does not use lasers and fillers which I am happy about. Although I will needfillers in future I thinkdue to atrophy after lasers and aging.
My concerns: if Derminator made the texture worse so more needling will do more damage?
Subcision: it might worsen the cheek scars... I have feeling that there are no fibrosis tethering the scars, the bottom of the scars is the fibrosis tissue itself....also the places of the scars...very seen very difficult to treat....the same concern tca, after bad experience with 2 scars I am not sure should I go for it againor not....may be try on one scar. What do you think about all that? May be eva_li couldadvice after her treatment with Pr.Chu.I had the feeling thatit is the same treatment for many. In the same time it is not much treatment in general.
I understand that when there are no acne and make up and no close looking my scars are not so seen ormore like the pigment.They look very differently in different light. The forehead is damaged, the upper cheeks, the left is more.
After all years I am absolutely exosted from all the restrictions and the major influence ofthis problem onmy life. I constantly have mild depression. Any advice would be appreciated.