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23 hours ago, incepticon said:@EagleEva Naturally I informed him about my accutane and he said there is absolutely nothing to worry about since according to him the accutane+scar revision thought is completely debunked and holds no ground. Before visiting him I did a lot of research on this subject and most newer scientific papers agree with his points so I wasn't really worried about the accutane thing. I agreed for him to perform subcision on me because I didn't think he would go so damn agressive with the needle. Upon finishing the procedure both of my cheeks were covered in purple and red spots and they were extremely swollen.I'm not saying he should have known about my exact skin type, but at least he could've informed me about the possible complications since i informed him that i need to be in front of people in my job on Monday. He said there is absolutely nothing to worry about. The heamatomas/seromas are still present in my cheeks and it's truly not a pretty sight with the red/purple spots alongside (again thank god for dermablend).
I honestly hope you are right and he will live up to that reputation, right now im just thinking about my cheeks and whether they will improve or get worse once the swellings and heamatomas/seromas wear off. That is the current situation and for better or worse i must live with the consquences of my own free choice. If my cheeks turn out better i will probably continue visiting him, if not i will venture on new adventures possibly across the sea.
Sidenote: he actually tried to sell me erbium laser after the subcision, which i declined on several occasions.
I think I covered most of what I wanted to tell you in your thread but few last points:
1) now I understand what made u upset - the doctor told you you would look fine but that was not true. that was not cool. subcision always has some downtime.
2) bruises are not a complication. they are a side effect that will happen always (you have just cut into your face with a small skalpel, right?) but the cool thing is they are really useful
3) it's really interesting to me that you're so surprised that you were swollen and red after subcision - I assume you have no experience with any scar procedures yet? after dermapen you're swollen and red as a tomato for a couple of days too. I think you should try it and see for yourself.
4) good luck on your new adventures but one thing I find dangerous - "If my cheeks turn out better i will probably continue visiting him, if not i will venture on new adventures possibly across the sea. 
"
- this is rather simplified, you cannot draw this simple line between how your cheeks will turn out after first sub and final judgement about a doctor. I dont think you ll find someone else who'll perform the subcision in a way that will bring better/different results. This doctor definitely seems to know what hes doing when it comes to subcision. in theory, subcision should work for you but it definitely will take more than one session since you didnt do filler. IMHO it would not be smart to switch to different procedures just cause first sub isnot satisfactory,
(The erbium laser recommendation however makes me uneasy. based on your pics, I find your texture fine, and I dont find you suitable for laser so much - but I would be curious what the more knowledgeable members think. Or does the DR recommend erbium to everyone with scars?...mm:/ )
And finally to connect your issue with my case - originally, I kind of fell in love with the idea, the pricniple, the technique of subcision and for a while I got so fixated on subcision and that it will solve my problems. But gradually - reading the reactions here - I realized my type of scarring might not be suitable for sub...I have mostly shallow boxcars... scarred pores also... just a few rolling hills. I m gonna have to make pieace with that and I will probably need to turn my attention to different methods perhaps. Oriented more at the texture and such.
Still waiting for Chu's verdict though!
Howgh.
24 minutes ago, EagleEva said:I think I covered most of what I wanted to tell you in your thread but few last points:
1) now I understand what made u upset - the doctor told you you would look fine but that was not true. that was not cool. subcision always has some downtime.
2) bruises are not a complication. they are a side effect that will happen always (you have just cut into your face with a small skalpel, right?) but the cool thing is they are really useful
3) it's really interesting to me that you're so surprised that you were swollen and red after subcision - I assume you have no experience with any scar procedures yet? after dermapen you're swollen and red as a tomato for a couple of days too. I think you should try it and see for yourself.
4) good luck on your new adventures but one thing I find dangerous - "If my cheeks turn out better i will probably continue visiting him, if not i will venture on new adventures possibly across the sea.
- this is rather simplified, you cannot draw this simple line between how your cheeks will turn out after first sub and final judgement about a doctor. I dont think you ll find someone else who'll perform the subcision in a way that will bring better/different results. This doctor definitely seems to know what hes doing when it comes to subcision. in theory, subcision should work for you but it definitely will take more than one session since you didnt do filler. IMHO it would not be smart to switch to different procedures just cause first sub isnot satisfactory,(The erbium laser recommendation however makes me uneasy. based on your pics, I find your texture fine, and I dont find you suitable for laser so much - but I would be curious what the more knowledgeable members think. Or does the DR recommend erbium to everyone with scars?...mm:/ )
And finally to connect your issue with my case - originally, I kind of fell in love with the idea, the pricniple, the technique of subcision and for a while I got so fixated on subcision and that it will solve my problems. But gradually - reading the reactions here - I realized my type of scarring might not be suitable for sub...I have mostly shallow boxcars... scarred pores also... just a few rolling hills. I m gonna have to make pieace with that and I will probably need to turn my attention to different methods perhaps. Oriented more at the texture and such.
Still waiting for Chu's verdict though!
Howgh.
About the Erbium laser. Yes, I can't honestly see why he wanted to do erbium on me, since as far as i can see my scars are rolling scars with minor textural issue. I don't have icepicks or real boxcar scars, rather my scars are (were?) tethered to the underlying skin. When Im looking at the mirror now, these tethered rolling scars are almost entirely absent (thankfully). I've tried IPL once and all it did was make my skin texture even worse - and please keep in mind IPL is the most conservative machine, since it's not even laser but light pulses.
Therefore, I wouldn't suggest lasers. If people want to do lasers, it must be because their skin texture warrants such invasive procedures.
To answer your last question in my thread (kind of funny to jump between the threads, but i think it's informative and a lot of readers are interested in these conversations). Yes, I've seen your forehead "scarring" I definately do not think they warrant subcision. If i were you I'd invest in dermapstamp from owndoc - if you havent already. I think you'd waste hard earned money in London.
@incepticon haha, thanks;) Have been needling with dermaroller, dermastamp and Dermapen in doctors offices and home for exactly 3 years now. 
Bought my own Derminator couple of months ago As I said earlier, love it for maintenance, does not do much for scars. I noticed small improvements in cheeks but definitely not on forehead Try it for yourself once and you will see.
8 hours ago, CLOOD said:This makes absolutely no sense at all. muscle-memory has to do with motor function.
Beside the semantics, let me give an example. Perhaps that would be more revealing. Suppose you have a bad habit of frowning your brows. Further suppose you do this many times throughout the day, Moreover, this is repeated on a daily basis, for the entire week. Worst yet, you've been doing this for the last 5 years. Now, whenever you see yourself in the mirror, you see a huge frown line that runs between your brows.
By the same token, when a scar is strongly tethered to a muscle in the forehead for years, which consequently will pull on the skin to create a deep wrinkle, the muscle will become conditioned to think that is normal. Also be mindful of the fact that the forehead, unlike the cheek, doesn't have a whole lot of collagen to mask the ugly effect. On a plump cheek, such a deep wrinkle might not be so visible. Hence it makes sense to relax the muscle prior to severing the tie between the scar and the muscle. Anyway, that's my take on it. HTH
Hello Guys! , when i read your message , we dont know if Emil is real good dermatologist for acne scar, i come from France, and i can say that Emil is good person and know lot of skills, he is superior to all dermatologist in france, i know what i say from brown skin lol,
i have follow the recommandation by davin lim, of course he dont use the same laser, but when he see my skin , first he said," i can help you , after 4-5 session , we can talk about 80% improvement " i say "waaa", for 24 000 DKK, he also said i will give low price because you are young and you have already done lot of laser on you face, he come with his wife( because she speak french), he show me the power of tca cross on ice pick scars in dark skin on his wife , he show me one picture of girl who have scars before and after, so i decide to begin the treatment , first he did a tca cross and dermapen, just to see the reaction of my skin, after 4 month , i don't see improvement lol no but its just a little treatment to see if my skin have a good reaction, for the second treatment he said like you " tca cross + erbium laser", and my skin dont need subcision, but to be honest with you, im in school and i have job so i cannot go everyday at Odense, so i need a free time to see him in july :'(
but i have positive experience with him , he dont need your money , he just want to help people who suffer acne scar,
this is the last message of him "
i continue to follow your topic! enjoy guys! sorry for my english , i just share my experience with him
Hi @neofoxyes I agree, I liked him too and I think he has really good knowledge about acne scarring.))
happy that you had this nice experience with him even on personal level .)
good luck on your journey, if you d like to share some pictures with us too, we will be glad:))
Hi EagleEva, I just wanted to let you know that I saw Prof. Chu for the same treatment (I feel he recommends this combination to everyone?) and one month after I do not see much improvement.. Also got some small lumps due to trauma from Dermapen/PRP (not even where he did subcision) / waiting for them to heal.. My scarring is also shallow with few deeper scars - for which I think subcision and filler will work the best .. However, I'm also from Europe so hard to find someone who can do fillers on acne scars and really don't feel like travelling to this Denmark village 
.. Travelling to London is at least always pleasent!
40 minutes ago, Nina22 said:Hi EagleEva, I just wanted to let you know that I saw Prof. Chu for the same treatment (I feel he recommends this combination to everyone?) and one month after I do not see much improvement.. Also got some small lumps due to trauma from Dermapen/PRP (not even where he did subcision) / waiting for them to heal.. My scarring is also shallow with few deeper scars - for which I think subcision and filler will work the best .. However, I'm also from Europe so hard to find someone who can do fillers on acne scars and really don't feel like travelling to this Denmark village
You can get filler in London as well, i went to "this small village" in Denmark since i live in Denmark and got subcision treatment by Emil. I haven't seen any result by him for filler but i found one in London. Check this one out : Her name is Dr Renee Hoenderkamp.
She does fillers, and if you check the below pictures by the lady you'll see her results.
Hey Inception, (- sorry don't even know how to highlight someone's name in here - still new) thank you for your suggestion, I went to this thread already as I was trying to do some research and googled Dr. Renee but she doesn't even seem to be a derm nor a plastic surgeon, who knows if she even does that with Nokor needle and what her experience is - bit too risky .. But I would be happy to hear your opinion in case you decide to see her! Also skinbooster are usually just injected all over the face for rejuvenation it's a different type of HA, I doubt it was used to fill individual scars, and I think I could even do this with any local derm as the technique remains the same as for wrinkles I believe.. Anyway I think you should just try Dr. Emil for fillers since you are lucky enough to have him so close by - I got subcision and Belotero filler at the same time almost one year ago on my deepest scar and this scar is still almost non- visible.. I persuaded my local derm to try to break the scar with a cannula (for the first time in her life) and she succeeded but then couldn't really do it on other smaller scars so now I need an expert
On 2/21/2018 at 4:50 AM, neofox said:Hello Guys! , when i read your message , we dont know if Emil is real good dermatologist for acne scar, i come from France, and i can say that Emil is good person and know lot of skills, he is superior to all dermatologist in france, i know what i say from brown skin lol,
i have follow the recommandation by davin lim, of course he dont use the same laser, but when he see my skin , first he said," i can help you , after 4-5 session , we can talk about 80% improvement " i say "waaa", for 24 000 DKK, he also said i will give low price because you are young and you have already done lot of laser on you face, he come with his wife( because she speak french), he show me the power of tca cross on ice pick scars in dark skin on his wife , he show me one picture of girl who have scars before and after, so i decide to begin the treatment , first he did a tca cross and dermapen, just to see the reaction of my skin, after 4 month , i don't see improvement lol no but its just a little treatment to see if my skin have a good reaction, for the second treatment he said like you " tca cross + erbium laser", and my skin dont need subcision, but to be honest with you, im in school and i have job so i cannot go everyday at Odense, so i need a free time to see him in july :'(
but i have positive experience with him , he dont need your money , he just want to help people who suffer acne scar,
this is the last message of him "I promise you that I will do whatever I can to make you happy - both my wife Awa and I very much enjoyed meeting you, and we both felt sympathy for you - we very much liked your personality and attitude.You deserve the best treatment I can possibly offer!"
i continue to follow your topic! enjoy guys! sorry for my english , i just share my experience with him
What? His wife is french? Haha. Thanks for sharing. He seems like a nice guy and have plenty of business not to worry about money. But lasers cost money so they do have to charge to pay off their equipment, staff, overhead, and make a profit too. Many doctors have a big debt at 7% interest when they leave school.
7 hours ago, Runawayspaceship said:What? His wife is french? Haha. Thanks for sharing. He seems like a nice guy and have plenty of business not to worry about money. But lasers cost money so they do have to charge to pay off their equipment, staff, overhead, and make a profit too. Many doctors have a big debt at 7% interest when they leave school.
Since he is Danish he probably got paid for going to university 
@Nina22 Hi, welcome! Yeah, seems like this package is Chu's favourite one but to be fair - most people's acne scarring would benefit from sub + TCA cross, dont u think? PRP is there for better healing I assume. The only pity is that he doesnt to fillers.
I dont think it is possible to get a lump from dermapen? I ve been getting dermapen for a long time. It must be from subcision, I really think so.
Good topic you opened- at this moment I am really struggling to decide whether I should get skinbooster with a local derm - she said she does cannula-style subcision before filling it in. Since my scarring is mostly shallow I assume it might work nice, maybe I dont individual scars filled (I have only around 10 that are deeper) but I am not sure.
Oh an PS:) I am not expecting to see results in a month, I know TCA cross calls for how many, perhaps at least 5 treatments or more. Subcision calls for 3-4 sessions in most cases and the results come soo gradually.
After three weeks since my first subcision I was sad that after the microswell had disappeared I saw my scars again.
But now, after some 7 weeks,I can see the subcised scars filling in gradually. Not completely but there's a progress for sure. With sub it is too early to judge anywhere before 3 months gone by I think. And it almost always requires multiple subs to get somewhere, I knew this from the start.
2 hours ago, EagleEva said:Oh an PS:) I am not expecting to see results in a month, I know TCA cross calls for how many, perhaps at least 5 treatments or more. Subcision calls for 3-4 sessions in most cases and the results come soo gradually.
After three weeks since my first subcision I was sad that after the microswell had disappeared I saw my scars again.
But now, after some 7 weeks, I can see the subcised scars filling in gradually. Not completely but there's a progress for sure. With sub it is too early to judge anywhere before 3 months gone by I think. And it almost always requires multiple subs to get somewhere, I knew this from the start.
Hey! Yes I think you are right but they always say it takes 6 months to see the final improvement but I never get it 
(with co2 fractional laser at least).. Anyway I would be so happy if this helps but at this point it is hard to decide whether I should repeat the treatment with prof Chu because I see no clear improvement so far and also BA in here advised me to get subcision and filler first and tca peels afterwards for texture - it's such a shame prof doesn't like fillers 
Was even thinking about asking someone else in his Clinic to do it after he is done with subcision because they do have fillers there as well they are used by different doctors in the clinic. He only subcised like 5 of my scars however he said others are fine because they go up with swelling after dermapen so not tethered- that included my 2 most annoying big scars that doughnut with filler so I thought they needed to be cut / I was a bit disappointed because I thought he should have done much more subcision on me.. And nodules I got are def not from subcision because they are on other parts of my face.. One is at the spot where he put PRP, I just think it was just too much for my sensitive skin to take at once .. Anyway about skinboosters I'm also considering them for my texture but have no idea if this works .. I also heart about a cannula attached to restylane filler but I don't think it's the same as my doctor used on me - that one was like long and she first needed to make a hole in my skin with a needle and then push the cannula through my face until she reached the scar - the entry point was like 5 cm away from the scar - was a weird process .. I think cannulas are often used by Derms for nasolabial folds even in our backwarded countries .. Btw I don't know where you live but there is also a dr called Nelson Novick with offices in NYC and close to tel Aviv who is supposed to be good in fillers for acne scars but he charges American prices ^^.. They told me minimum 60 euros per scar subcision plus filler - so for our 10 scars it's quite a lot plus I'm not even sure if I need subcision anymore 
@Nina22hm, that sounds a bit disappointing... But thanks for explanation of the order - I did not understand why he does dermapen first, before subcision! So he wants to see which scars remain tethered? Hm, I am super plump after dermapen! I dont have that many tethered scars... I have a lot of boxcars which are not tethered but might benefit from subcision anyway IMHO. There s a new thread where poster asks about big boxcar and everyone adviced subcision. Emil was more willing to do subcision on more of my scars. Mmmm (( If I end up getting only dermapen and super quick tca cross, I ll be rather disappointed cause I can get dermapen+ PRP here cheap and quick.
anyway, dont know about the lump. I have not heard of a lump after PRP yet. But I d appreciate if someone more experienced chimes in and gives their opinion.
42 minutes ago, EagleEva said:@Nina22 hm, that sounds a bit disappointing... But thanks for explanation of the order - I did not understand why he does dermapen first, before subcision! So he wants to see which scars remain tethered? Hm, I am super plump after dermapen! I dont have that many tethered scars... I have a lot of boxcars which are not tethered but might benefit from subcision anyway IMHO. There s a new thread where poster asks about big boxcar and everyone adviced subcision. Emil was more willing to do subcision on more of my scars. Mmmm (( If I end up getting only dermapen and super quick tca cross, I ll be rather disappointed cause I can get dermapen+ PRP here cheap and quick.anyway, dont know about the lump. I have not heard of a lump after PRP yet. But I d appreciate if someone more experienced chimes in and gives their opinion.
Yes that's his method to see the tethered scars once you swell after Dermapen - I was also surprised. I also want subcision done on my bigger scars with filler as this is the only thing that has ever helped me. I had filler without subcision and the result was not good. He applied lots of pressure when he moved dermapen all over - my bones were getting uncomfortable I'm not sure if your Derms are also so intense with it, hence I believe this caused the lumps - prof Chu told me he can inject them later if they don't resolve so I'm not too worried since they are only seen when I stretch my face.. And after tca cross I got a bit worried because the scars got actually worse for few weeks and now it's just all back to normal.. not even sure since I was not observing myself so closely before. I'm attaching some photos - first one shows my biggest scars that I wanted to get sorted and he didn't even do subcision there and second just my other superficial scars and the one that looks the deepest there in the middle was subcised 
3 minutes ago, EagleEva said:hmm interesting. the biggest one def seems rolling to me. and some of those superficial ones too...
well, I always feel the dermapen on my bones (cheekbone, chin) a loooot.
the lumps should resolve by themselves tho, are u already seeing progress with them?
The first photo is before treatment now I have a lump on this biggest scar so looks a bit more filled ^^ he put PRP there .. But I'm sure only filler will help if anything.. Hm i think it's sloooowly getting better .. I am also getting some white (acne) spots after the treatment that are normally gone within one or two days but weird since my face is all clean normally but it's also less and less.. Did you see some results with dermapen on your scars? - and if so, how long did it take to show?
On 2/25/2018 at 5:08 AM, Nina22 said:Since he is Danish he probably got paid for going to university
What???? Grad school is free there?????? OMG. Those Euro guys have it good. BTW, yours scars don't look bad to me, if I can get mine down to yours, I'd be pretty happy. Mine are bad.
On 2/25/2018 at 10:09 AM, EagleEva said:Oh an PS:) I am not expecting to see results in a month, I know TCA cross calls for how many, perhaps at least 5 treatments or more. Subcision calls for 3-4 sessions in most cases and the results come soo gradually.
After three weeks since my first subcision I was sad that after the microswell had disappeared I saw my scars again.
But now, after some 7 weeks, I can see the subcised scars filling in gradually. Not completely but there's a progress for sure. With sub it is too early to judge anywhere before 3 months gone by I think. And it almost always requires multiple subs to get somewhere, I knew this from the start.
Geez, I didnt realize it takes that many sessions. How far apart between sessions and what's the recovery time for each? If it takes 3 months to see results after 3-4 sessions, I am guessing 1 month apart? Did you do the TCA cross in between each sub session? How long do those holes take to close up? Seen some of those subcision videos and that's a big arse 18gauge needle they stick in. So surprised the needles dont cause more scars.
On 2/25/2018 at 1:27 PM, EagleEva said:@Nina22 hm, that sounds a bit disappointing... But thanks for explanation of the order - I did not understand why he does dermapen first, before subcision! So he wants to see which scars remain tethered? Hm, I am super plump after dermapen! I dont have that many tethered scars... I have a lot of boxcars which are not tethered but might benefit from subcision anyway IMHO. There s a new thread where poster asks about big boxcar and everyone adviced subcision. Emil was more willing to do subcision on more of my scars. Mmmm (( If I end up getting only dermapen and super quick tca cross, I ll be rather disappointed cause I can get dermapen+ PRP here cheap and quick.anyway, dont know about the lump. I have not heard of a lump after PRP yet. But I d appreciate if someone more experienced chimes in and gives their opinion.
Aren't boxcars good for TCA cross to raise them up too?
No guys , his wife speak french only,
I think if you want a quick result only davin lim would respond at you scars : he did nine procedure in one session for my friend you can look the review in realself its black skin,
dr emil purpose to me a laser erbium because my skin is brown he also control the tca cross for brown skin which its difficult for some doctor, remember that erbium laser is not dangerous than co2 , and 80% are the skills of the doctor ans 20% the device, i have an appointment with emil in. July for erbium+tca+ prp then three day after filler for atrophic scars if i dont have result i Wil see davin lim in Australia but you sometimes one session is not enough
you can ask him to send to you a picture of before and after,he send to me a picture of a girl but i cannot share because i dont have his agree
Guys, so I came back from London last night!
Prof Chu did Dermapen + PRP first (quite aggresive, 1.6mm on forehead, wow :-O but I trust he knows what's he doing), then subcision on those scars that still seemed tethered after dermapen (quite a number on both cheeks, only 1-2 on forehead 
) and TCA cross to finish things off.
I must say that it was so bloody and painful! Im usually good with pain but this time, oh boy, so many injections (prp then anesthaesia), such deep dermapen... But hey, you gotta suffer a bit for beauty 
I would like to ask you about TCA cross and after-care - I am a newbie in this one!
The white frosting disappeared after a while and now, the day after, I dont even know which scars and pores were crossed. There s nothing. So I am confused as for what should I do - in terms of skin care and topicals.
I read on other threads here that you should use vaseline, alove vera + honey and so on but when?
Now, or after the scabs form?
When will they form?
Thanks so much guys - I really wanna do this right.
In the past I did Dermapen separately, subcision separately, and now I have had these three treatments all at once and dont really know what to do in order to improve the results and not hurt myself.
Here are some pictures - first right after the session (yesterday afternoon), the others from now. I am still massively swollen like a chipmunk which I quite like lol and bruises are starting to form.
Prof Chu reeeeaaally takes care to press hard and massage the areas after sub so lumps dont develop so I hope they wont.
The only thing that really concerns me at this point is a weird scratch on my right cheek. I think it is incision point from needle because it is bloody. Cant it be from tca cross or where incision and tca cross met?
@EagleEvaNow is fine. Grease for Peace. Meaning a wet wound is a happy wound. Do not rub them, exfoliate them, or scrub them. When going in the shower wash the face with your hands splashing, not directly with the shower. They will remain red for a while, use makeup. TCA Cross as you know takes several rounds. " In the past I did Dermapen separately, subcision separately, and now I have had these three treatments all at once and dont really know what to do in order to improve the results and not hurt myself. " You will have to repeat cross. Your right cheek is where the needle was inserted. Put the grease for peace stuff on it. IT will heal with time. If you cut yourself and heal normally, ... it will heal. Makeup is fine, makeup remover could dissolve the cross areas. Aloe is very healing. Treat it like any scratch, ... most would use honey and aloe or triple antibiotic cream. Strataderm makes a good product as well, they are in Switzerland.