@Nemesis 89
Your very welcome! Please try to ignore the other banter on here, your post has been hijacked. That is the beauty of repeated subcision it helps the body deal with the pit.
On 6/23/2017 at 9:43 AM, beautifulambition said:@Nemesis 89
Thanks alot.
I decide to go on with first subcision and then filler and then infini and microneedling.
I will tell you and other friends here what happen to my scars in future.
And I will add photos of progress.
24 minutes ago, beautifulambition said:> Great glad you found something that helps your scars, ... talk about that in your own post, everyone elses experience , it's not yours. why not come to the forum and judge them. That's NOT how to make friends and influence people, a verry good book I might add.I don't need you to agree with me, I need you to act like a adult and respect me and my viewpoints as valid. I have helped thousands, what again makes you a expert? Laser and Derminator helped you and you came here to call everyone else out as wrong. You can parrot what your doctor said about advice and correct misinformation based on what, some faulty white papers discounting everyone here's real life viewpoints and experience. You never came to have a honest debate of actual helpful info ie. "kook," "masturbating," "spam," and calling others basically stupid.
I have reports from several members of your misconduct, we will see how you conduct yourself and escalate if need be.
Your offputting behavior / poor nettiquette has not helped anyone. You only want to helping others for your own ego, pride and vanity.
I will wait for the helping others part, I believe in second chances.Now on the part we agree I have said many times Derminator can help people, and I have said acid peels are better than laser, this has been proven multiple times, check Google Scholar (Hint no thermal damage). But yes laser is a last resort for many. See above Side effects ^ .. and no of course you had none of that but others have.
I will not continue this on, last post about this topic.
Well I'm only talking about it because you asked. And then you do this. My thread will when I'm satisfied and no longer wish to treat.
>I don't need you to agree with me, I need you to act like a adult and respect me and my viewpoints as valid. I have helped thousands, what again makes you a expert?
"I have helped thousands" "respect me". Wind your neck in. You're clearly not used to being challenged. And then you go ahead and tell me "">You only want to helping others for your own ego, pride and vanity." Chill the hell out. I'm starting to think you're sore about me correcting you in another thread (to which you never replied, btw) It's not personal.
What makes you an expert?
>some faulty white papers discounting everyone here's real life viewpoints and experience.
Clinical studies with results that have been replicated in other independent studies, generally. I'm not discounting peoples personal experiences, but there's a reason science doesn't rely on anecdotes, and we shouldn't by extension - they are notoriously unreliable. And when you're dealing with a group of people that probably has more BDD sufferers than any other, you should be extra cautious.
>I have said acid peels are better than laser, this has been proven multiple times
I'm going to need a direct citation on this one dude. "No thermal damage" is a given, there's no heat. But controlled thermal damage is literally its mechanism of action. Ablation. It's not unsimilar to needling - damage by heat, damage by mechanical means. To say laser doesn't work is to say needling doesn't work.
This guys linked source is genius scientist Dr. Eric Schweiger.He cant see past anything in a white coat with a college degree. Sad.
Just take his advice with a grain of salt. The truth about laser lies somewhere between "gold standard" and "doesn't work". He refuses to answer my questions or address my points (because he can't).
43 minutes ago, QuanHenry said:This guys linked source is genius scientist Dr. Eric Schweiger.He cant see past anything in a white coat with a college degree. Sad.
Just take his advice with a grain of salt. The truth about laser lies somewhere between "gold standard" and "doesn't work". He refuses to answer my questions or address my points (because he can't).
What are you talking about? It's a search query page with 404 results (with constricted keywords, without there are even more) from numerous authors to show the abundance of supporting evidence. Not just one doc's article.
Your questions were latched on to conspiracy theories. I can't counter the non-falsifiable. It's a never ending game of shifting goalposts. By all means, take that as a win, I just hope others see through it.
Yes, and I laughed when Schweiger was one of the first returns. He once said he has a technique to remove acne scars in one treatment. Totally fake.
You dismiss my argument as a conspiracy theory supported by anecdote. After a certain point it stops being anecdotal and becomes common truth. Stop it. Admit the only people supportlaser stand to profit.
@beautifulambitionPlease close this thread. This is getting pointless.
28 minutes ago, QuanHenry said:So everyone is just wrong? In denial that their scars didn't, or barely improved after laser? I guess I'm confused about what you mean. How can you seriously make that argument?
You know that's not what I'm saying, and I'd appreciate it if you'd stop purposely misrepresenting it.
Of course it's there are people have been treated with laser and noticed little to no improvement. Hell, damaged. Documented cases, too. That happens across the board. There is no treatment without its horror stories, but there are documented cases the other way also.
To try and claim fractional co2 (and I'd like us to not lump fully ablative co2 and other lasers in here, because those aren't the ones I'd recommend, and I didn't think we were speaking about. But just to be sure) has' No hard evidence' and 'doesn't have a single satisfied patient on the entire internet.' is poppycock.
Your argument is 'Says who? The so called "doctors"? The .gov agents heavily invested in the companies?" There's nothing I can do or say to that.
I think there's also a survivorship bias here that I think you need to take into account. When it comes to reviews on realself or here even - those who are happy with the results are much less likely to write reviews, or visit these forums at all, they're no longer dwelling on their scarring and driving themselves crazy staring into the mirror for hours a week. There are posters on this forum who've had great improvement - DudleyDoRight and *Inspired* are ones from the top of my head, no longer post here.
This is getting ridiculous.
You're deflecting. I didn't say anything about the horror stories (which is rather uncommon), but cases where the patient had little improvement, which you already described as a "common misconception". I'm not sure what that means. Answer the question.
I already asked you to show us your photos. If you had them you would have shut me up, but you don't.
Edit: I admit Im just having some fun, but heres my final take.
I do believe laser is effective, but is not cost effective. I hate hearing the "gold standard" talking point because I strongly disagree. Ive said it many times here and around the internet, laser is just overpriced and overhyped. Taking in to account the cost, recovery time, pain, and risk compared results, you are better off substituting peels and microneedling. Even is laser yields a (slightly) better improvement, it isnt worth it in the long run. Maybe a better laser will come out in our lifetime. Untill then, Im done with them.
I still believe that lasers alone are not effective for atrophic scarring, u need to combine lasers with subcision, cross and fillers, which is what most acne scar specialist do. Lasers only help with blending the edges of the scars and improve the overall complexion of the face.
Lasers are optional (can be substituted by microneedling and peels), other techniques such as subcision, cross and fillers are mandatory
Checkout this video from Dr Rapoport, he is a famous acne scar specialist near NY
7 hours ago, QuanHenry said:You're deflecting. I didn't say anything about the horror stories (which is rather uncommon), but cases where the patient had little improvement, which you already described as a "common misconception". I'm not sure what that means. Answer the question.
I do believe laser is effective, but is not cost effective. I hate hearing the "gold standard" talking point because I strongly disagree. Ive said it many times here and around the internet, laser is just overpriced and overhyped. Taking in to account the cost, recovery time, pain, and risk compared results, you are better off substituting peels and microneedling. Even is laser yields a (slightly) better improvement, it isnt worth it in the long run. Maybe a better laser will come out in our lifetime. Untill then, Im done with them.
> I didn't say anything about the horror stories (which is rather uncommon), but cases where the patient had little improvement
It's actually pretty hard to know what you're talking about in a post if you've made several spurious claims prior to it. Lasers aren't a one and done procedure, that doesn't exist. Results are cumulative. If someone isn't happy with the results of one dermastamp treatment, you say "No shit dude, it's not a magic wand" same deal. (and yeah, some aren't going to be satisfied after multiple.)
>I do believe laser is effective, but is not cost effective.
Now we're getting somewhere.
>Even is laser yields a (slightly) better improvement, it isnt worth it in the long run.
Doesn't that just make it a money issue?
1 hour ago, keving100 said:u need to combine lasers with subcision, cross and fillers, which is what most acne scar specialist do.
I'd agree with this part.
1 hour ago, keving100 said:Lasers only help with blending the edges of the scars
But not this.
I'm going to open up this thread again WITH GRAVE RESERVATION but am going to ask ALL participants in it to keep comments relevant, helpful, useful, and supportive to the OP and to please stay ON TOPIC! Healthy debate is encouraged but flaming other people or their ideas is not OK and won't be tolerated. If this can't be followed, the topic will be closed again and other action may be taken as well.
Thank you.
You know friends I find out that subsicion need time to show results(if you have deep scars it need to be repeated and you have to go on with pain and redness every session)
I find out that for deep acne scars punch exicion is one of the best treatment ( actually if it done correctly) I decide to have exicion and I will share with you the results so you can find out it worth or not