Acne.org Products
While some people have tried TCA Cross on rolling scars, I would not do it. I had a bad reaction to TCA Cross on my ice pick & boxcar scars, and couldn't imagine the possible damage from applying acid of that strength on wider rolling scars. I don't think my experience with Cross was normal. Nevertheless, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, even if there was a chance for improvement on smaller ice pick scars.
TCA Cross isn't a peel. Since you're fair skinned and could benefit from skin tightening, a peel might be beneficial. I would try whatever peel Mr. Matt has done to stimulate collagen growth. However, I would wait an extended period of time before trying any kind of other treatment because you're actively rolling and probably a bit too often. Your skin might be too fragile for a peel right now. If I were you, I would be really concerned with permanent damage from over treatment. Give your skin a rest for a few weeks before trying any other kind of treatment.
TCA Cross isn't a peel. Since you're fair skinned and could benefit from skin tightening, a peel might be beneficial. I would try whatever peel Mr. Matt has done to stimulate collagen growth. However, I would wait an extended period of time before trying any kind of other treatment because you're actively rolling and probably a bit too often. Your skin might be too fragile for a peel right now. If I were you, I would be really concerned with permanent damage from over treatment. Give your skin a rest for a few weeks before trying any other kind of treatment.
Yeah i am not rolling for a couple of weeks think i'll start doing it every 3 weeks ...i really have hard skin i can shave without lotion lol ...anyway he has tried lots of peels i guess i'll go ask which is best ...i use to use green cream alot but got immune to it ...is it considered a peel?
are you think that tca cross isn't good for wide boxcar scars? although i notice some people have good result from it,the problem here in egypt,the most doctors just make lasers,chemical peels or tca cross treatment for acne scars,and most sort of lasers,i think it's just non ablative fractional co2 lasers.
are you think that tca cross isn't good for wide boxcar scars? although i notice some people have good result from it,the problem here in egypt,the most doctors just make lasers,chemical peels or tca cross treatment for acne scars,and most sort of lasers,i think it's just non ablative fractional co2 lasers.
I found some pictures to show what happened to my scars. You can see them here:
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php/gallery/album/12393-beforeafter-tca-cross-deep-fx/
For me, TCA Cross was the absolute worst decision I've ever made in treating my scars. I realize some people have seen improvement. I did not see any improvement from it, and it made my scars much worse.
There are a couple good research articles that have come out of Egypt comparing laser to TCA Cross. I can't find the links now but you might want to google it.
t girl ...would a filler not be perfect for your skin ...your skins looks like it would be easily fixed
At this point, I could use fillers on some of my scars, but doing so, would also require subcision for the filler to be successful. I couldn't have used them to improve my deeper scars after TCA Cross. The damage was pretty deep. To be honest, I am also not too excited about fillers because safe fillers are temporary.
I wish I had taken better before/after pictures throughout my treatment process. TCA Cross was a setback on both sides of my face, but laser has been a miracle on reversing most of that damage. I'm now just left with wide indents & some shallow ice pick scars. Most of my ice pick scars probably don't even qualify as ice pick at this point.
I'll likely try fractional co2, ablative laser again, and then fillers to fix whatever remains. I'm still not sure on how to proceed though. I don't want to make any more mistakes.
t girl ...would a filler not be perfect for your skin ...your skins looks like it would be easily fixed
At this point, I could use fillers on some of my scars, but doing so, would also require subcision for the filler to be successful. I couldn't have used them to improve my deeper scars after TCA Cross. The damage was pretty deep. To be honest, I am also not too excited about fillers because safe fillers are temporary.
I wish I had taken better before/after pictures throughout my treatment process. TCA Cross was a setback on both sides of my face, but laser has been a miracle on reversing most of that damage. I'm now just left with wide indents & some shallow ice pick scars. Most of my ice pick scars probably don't even qualify as ice pick at this point.
I'll likely try fractional co2, ablative laser again, and then fillers to fix whatever remains. I'm still not sure on how to proceed though. I don't want to make any more mistakes.
i have the same indentation as you. have you heard of dermaflage? its a silicone based make up especially made for indented scarring like ours. they just came out with the acne scarring kit. you should check it out. easy application and it will fill in the indents/
i have the same indentation as you. have you heard of dermaflage? its a silicone based make up especially made for indented scarring like ours. they just came out with the acne scarring kit. you should check it out. easy application and it will fill in the indents/
I saw your post on dermaflage, and took a look at their site. I can't use silicone based makeup. It leads to clogged pores and blackheads for me. I would like to get to a point where I don't need to wear makeup to conceal my scars. That might not be possible, but I am still trying.
so much good knowledge there ...shes going on about how some sites say to dermaroll 5 times a week but ur skin is in a state of swelling and such but she never said that i've found how often to do it ....
While I find owndoc.com's forum a great resource and believe Sarah's rollers have helped some people, I don't completely trust her and believe all of the information, such as her articles & success photos, on her site. I also don't believe she's completely truthful and here's why...
On the front of the site, you will see a lady's chest. She suffered from hypopigmentation following IPL treatment back in 2009. She dermarolled for a few months and initially thought she had seen improvement. In the end, she realized her skin was simply inflamed for months and the dermaroller did not improve her hypopigmentation. Sarah continues to use this lady's photos on her site as a success case. She's example 6 on this page and featured in the left column on the front of owndoc.com: http://owndoc.com/st...-our-customers/ .
The same lady and picture are on realself.com:
http://www.realself....laser-treatment
Sarah makes this claim, "This picture is from March 2011, after five months of needling. The customer is very happy with the results and posted them originally on our forum."
However, if you read the comments on realself.com, the lady actually says the following on Sept 8, 2011:
(snip)
That's when I found out about derma rolling. I ordered a roller in Nov. 2010 and rolled regularly all winter and used a copper peptide serum that I ordered from Skin Biology. One day in April 2011, I woke up and looked in the mirror and thought I was healed!! The skin all looked the same color and I could not see the white scars. However, I soon realized that what I was seeing was just inflamation/irritation/redness due to the consistent rolling that made basically all the skin on my chest the same color, but it was just due to irritation. I know this because as soon as I slowed down on the rolling, the white scars re-emerged. Next I tried more IPL (from a different person this time) to try and break up the tattoo ink. I had about 5 IPL treatments this summer and as you know, it's not pretty nor fast to recover. I had to keep my chest covered as the pigment rose to the top of the skin and eventually peeled off. After 5 IPL and seeing very little improvement, my aesthetician recommended I try Fraxel Re:Store. I had my first treatment (and I'm not sure of the settings, but the girl I go to now is very conservative, as she does not want to cause further scarring) but I do know that she did 2 passes... She started in the middle of my chest and did about 5 vertical passes on each side of my chest, then she started at the top of my chest near collar bone and did about 7 or 8 horizontal passes, going down to between my boobs. It was not has harsh as IPL because there was no blistering and really not much redness either... my skin felt sort of like sandpaper from where the Fraxel made tiny columns (like pixel) in some of the skin, but left the rest untouched. I had that done on Aug. 19th. The lady said it would take at least 1 month for me to see improvement. It's been a little over 3 weeks, and sadly I do not see any improvement...well, possibly a TINY bit, but I intend to go back mid-Sept and have another Fraxel, as it seems to be less invasive than the IPL. Also, about 2 weeks after the Fraxel, I started applying Retin A at night and a Vitamin C serum then sunscreen in the morning. I have not used the derma roller, but I will tell you that there is one white spot that is larger and the skin seems "thicker" on that one... So I just have been taking a regular sewing needle and poking at that spot morning and night. I have read that this can "break up" any skin that has formed a hard scar. I also put the copper peptide on that one area after needling with the single needle, then apply retin A at night and vitamin C serum in the morning before putting on sunscreen.
(snip)
With that said, I think people need to use caution when believing these claims online. I believe dermarollers work for some people. I've been a bit skeptical of Sarah ever since I noticed the picture on her site was also on realself.com, and Sarah's claim simply doesn't reflect reality when it comes to this woman's situation. I don't know why I notice these things but this situation is not the only time I've seen a picture on a seller's site that I had previously seen on realself.com.
Dermarolling is so overated. it is only for people with very thick skin and good healing ability. if you ask me it just causes more and more scarring. he also states dermarolling is NOT for anyone with poor healing ability. people who have taken accuatne in the past i feel srry for em if they decide to dermaroll. dermaroll in no way can treat deep scarring i wish eveyrone would stop with this dermaroll hype.
When you mentioned Ray's videos, I wasn't expecting to see a promotional video for Ray's DermaRoller. I assume Ray is the owner of Ray's DermaRoller.
I was also under the impression that rolling is painful with bleeding, but based on that video, it doesn't look that way to me.
did you look at his scars in the first video???? ....did you see any scars in the 33rd video???? BOOOOOOOOOOOMSHAKALAKA
It's a promotional video for his own roller. Of course, he's going to make claims like that. I also didn't see any side shots of his skin in the last video. Did I miss something?
Those are some great reference links by nope.avi. I believe rolling does help improve scars on some people. Similarly, I believe laser fails miserably on some people. I don't believe in promotional hype from companies trying to sell their own rollers. Likewise, I don't believe in the 100s of promotional YouTube videos on laser.
Dermarolling is so overated. it is only for people with very thick skin and good healing ability. if you ask me it just causes more and more scarring. he also states dermarolling is NOT for anyone with poor healing ability. people who have taken accuatne in the past i feel srry for em if they decide to dermaroll. dermaroll in no way can treat deep scarring i wish eveyrone would stop with this dermaroll hype.
>it just causes more and more scarring
Gonna cite that? (You can't) The punctures are tiny and if they re-epithelialize in under 21 (As they would for someone with normal healing) days there can be NO scarring. This applies to all wounds, controlled or not. It's the same reason lasers don't produce scar tissue when operated correctly.
>people who have taken accuatne in the past i feel srry for em if they decide to dermaroll.
Usually no problem after a year.
>dermaroll in no way can treat deep scarring i wish eveyrone would stop with this dermaroll hype.
_Nothing_ can at current.
>i wish eveyrone would stop with this dermaroll hype.
'Hype'? This hype?
Environ® Medical Roll-CIT„ Micro-needlingRevolutionary New Approach to Medical Needling
Probably my FAVORITE rolling article - it contains frequency recommendations, as well as pre- and post-roll protocols for optimal collagen development. Also comparisons of rolling with 1mm vs. 3mm needles.
http://www.dermaconc...ro_Needling.pdf
Micro Needling and Injecting Platelet Rich Plasma to Enhance Collagen Synthesis and Skin Tightening.
Author: Joseph F. Greco, PhD, PA/C
This article discusses a number of needling research studies, wound healing, and mesotherapy lifts (with pics)
http://www.microneed...e=thumbs&page=1
New Life for Lips
A VERY good article focusing on above the lip lines, usage of 1.0mm vs 3.0mm needles, and the protocols used by Dr. Des Fernandes (one of the inventors)
http://www.vivida.co.../show_article/3
Minimally Invasive Percutaneous Collagen Induction
Desmond Fernandes, MB, BCh, FRCS(Edin)
This article provides a great overview of how collagen is developed with the micro needling process, as well as the rolling protcol, etc. (pics included)
http://www.dermogene...f_N_Am_2005.pdf
The Collagen Induction Therapy
Provides an overview (with pics) of the medical roll process.
http://www.cit-nordi...etechnique.html
Euro Medi Travel
Page 8 contains CIT frequency recommendations based on skin condition:
http://www.euromedit...tional_info.pdf
Environ stunned the world...
Some results pics and detailed directions on how to do a roll, including frequency of usage for the .2mm Environ home care roller:
http://www.beautymag...ron_rollcit.htm
Getting The Point
An overview of the process from Dr. Des Fernandes, including some frequency recommendations:
http://www.vivida.co..._newsletter.pdf
Some results photos from a Boston doctor (with pics):
http://www.bostoncen...ninduction.html
A Miami doctor's webpage, with links to a video of him performing the procedure:
http://www.drbustillo.com/roll-cit.htm
The Dermaroller blog where I asked Horst Liebl about needle length, and his reply:
http://dermaroller.w...lagen-function/
The Dermaroller blog with a question and answer on rolling frequency:
http://dermaroller.w...ment-intervals/
STIMULATION OF CELL GROWTH
by Horst Liebl
http://www.dermaroll...eflections.html
Electrical Signals Control Wound Healing (dermarollers generate electrical charges)
http://www.dermaroll...es/Findings.pdf
Percutanous Delivery By Dr. K. Anastassakis May 2005
http://www.dermaroll...s-delivery.html
Collagen Induction Therapy in Mouse ( IPL vs. Micro-needling )
http://www.clinicalr...e=thumbs&page=1
Skin Needling - A New Treatment for Scars and Lines
http://www.mesothera... Doctors_MW.pdf
Percutaneous Collagen Induction Therapy: An Alternative Treatment for Scars, Wrinkles, and Skin Laxity
http://www.acaciader... April 2008.pdf
MTS (Microneedle Therapy System) by Prof. Kim Beom Joon, Department of Dermatology
Dongguk University International Hospital
page 15 talks about delivery of ascorbic acid
Lots of pictures of scar revisions, striae, etc.
http://www.clinicalr...kimbeomjoon.pdf
Skin needling: Youth by a thousand needle pricks
Dr. G. Todorov
http://www.smartskin...n-needling.html
There's a shittonne more but you're not going to read them so why bother. You've made up your mind.
LOL @ nope avi. i laugh at your effort to contradict me. i dont care how many threads you pull out your ass to back up what you claim. I can easily pull out as many or more threads of how dermarolling RUINED peoples skin. but im not going to you know why? i dont have time to waste on ignorant people such as yourself. clearly you neevr been on accutane, for you to comment on the healling ability , you made yourself look foolish. people that have been off accutane for many years including myself still have weak healing capabilties and sensitive skin. In fact i highly doubt you have any serious scarring @ all, which makes me quesiton why are you on this forum anyways? i if dermarolling works for you then thats good for you but what works for some wont work for others. in fact what might work for some can cause great damaage to others. Ive done my research alrdy buddy i think you still have a alot of researching to do lol
YEAH your beatin a dead horse you can't give people hope that aren't looking for hope
why dont you go ahead and dermaroll then? if you feel confident about the results go ahead. dont say i didnt warn you tho.....