sanjose- have u done vbeam before? if so, how was the result? how many treatments have u done?

 

 

I've done Vbeam before, I think twice. IT was a few years ago, now they have an updated Vbeam that is purpura free. I should rather say, I think they have an updated one.

 

 

I personally loved Vbeam. Really works well on red spots. At high settings it causes purple brusing called purpura that can last anywhere from a few days to several months. Mine lasted about a month on strong setting. Again I think an updated Vbeam laser doesn't cause this anymore. Or you can have several treatments at lower settings.

 

Vbeam is painless I thought, felt like rubber band snaps, with a puff of cold air.

 

I think complications can occur, such as hypopigmentation possibly, I'm not certain, I think I read that somewhere.

 

Also make sure you have safety gogles on and tell them to STAY AWAY FROM THE EYE ORBITAL. That intense light is so strong, it can really mess up your eye, even if they don't touch the eye area but get close. Say STAY AWAY FROM EYES.

 

I swear I think it got too close to my orbital, and inside my eyeball it lighted up like lightening. I was seeing blurry for a few mins, my eye could not focus, I was freaing out inside. I don't recall how close it got, maybe it was on my tempel or below my eye, but that thing was strong.

 

If your pigment issues are more severe, you might need 3-5 treatments.

 

I saw the same thing. It looked like lightning lol. Dr Rullan said it's normal though and it's okay as long as it doesnt directly hit your eyeball.

does the redness completely go away after4-5treatments? or the redness is still slightly there?

does the redness completely go away after4-5treatments? or the redness is still slightly there?

well I can't answer that, I think only a doctor can make that judgment call.

This is for redness caused by the laser, or did you always have a redness problem before, for example flushed rosacea cheeks?

I think if the laser caused redness, you are better just giving it time to heal.

But if you have a history of skin redness, then Vbeam should help. I don't think anything is 100 percent gauranteed.

that is so true. my doc told me it will give me 80-85percent improvement but im asking your consequence. how much did yours go away?

that is so true. my doc told me it will give me 80-85percent improvement but im asking your consequence. how much did yours go away?

I had a few problem spots that completely went away

SanJose, thanks for all the research notes. I spend more time on financial sites researching funds. Here is the link for the Bern Triplets that has been posted here before, but I thought this might be a good time to reintroduce. http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/30977987/

SanJose, thanks for all the research notes. I spend more time on financial sites researching funds. Here is the link for the Bern Triplets that has been posted here before, but I thought this might be a good time to reintroduce. http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/30977987/

Hey dudely, I know this is kind of hard to understand. So hopefully this visual histology slide will help.

See all these companies, figure out how deep the laser goes by doing biopsys. Usually small punch biopsy. Then in the clincial trials, they average out the data from histology slides, and come up with an average ablation depth, thermal damage zone 1 and zone 2, and total lesion depth.

The slides are stained differently to show zone 1 thermal damage, which is right around the ablation, and a different stain shows zone 2 thermal depth which penetrates vertically.

So here is an example, to help you and others visual these different zones. Zone 1 is not visible in this staining, but we don't care about that. We care about ablation, and zone 2.

Look at this video, and pause the video right at 0:42 seconds. Pause it, and you will see a histology slide for 70 mj. You can see the total lesion depth at 70 mj is 1.5mm. You can also clearly see the ablation vs thermal zone 2 thermal damage, which penetrates down achieving the 1.5mm lesion depth, or more commonly the averaged lesion depth of 1.6mm that is advertised.

This wonderfully shows that the ablation depth is actually around .600-.700mm if we are visually estimating, the remainder is about .900mm or approx 1mm of thermal damage. The ablation depth plus thermal damage depths add up to give you lesion depth of 1.5mm or 1.6mm.

To compare with ultrapulse, approx .700mm of ablation depth, results in only an additional .200mm of thermal damage. For a total lesion deapth approx of .900mm. So you attain the same ablation depth, but you spare healthy tissue, and avoid possible complications that comes along with too deep and wide of thermal damage. What does this mean? It means you can go deeper, without worrying that you are causing excess thermal damage, which is the leading cause of hypopigmentation with CO2. You can also treat deeper, and treat patients who alreadly have thermal damage, such as burn patients. However, both have pretty good records. There is no reason why acne scar patients, shouldn't see good results with both. That is if lasers work for scarring.

This same idea ooccurs laterally, but that is way too confusing, and I still don't understand the density formulas.

Here is the fraxel video..

pause at 0.42 to view the histology slide.

If you or anyone else is still confused on ablation depths and lesion depths, watch this video also.

Please pause the video, and read all the captions. Also in the the video, pay attention to the ablation zones, and also pay attention the the shaded regions, which are thermal damage zones.

Here is the video:

http://www.aesthetic.lumenis.com/wt/page/checkyourpulse

Another note, people interested in fractional resurfacing, if you are comparing superpulse to ultrapulse, you should also throw in Lumenis AcuPulse. The AcuPulse is a Superpulse laser, which has the ability to turn Continuous Wave on, so it gives the doctor flexability in treating different conditions.

This is very interresting. My doc performs Deep FX without local anesthetic.

According to the Lumenis link above, Ultrapulse has a smaller spotsize and less thermal damage = less pain during the procedure and less downtime (redness)?

SanJose, I have floundered around for 2 years trying to understand the workings of the laser. It is good to see that we finally have someone who knows what he is talking about. Do you mind if I use some of your info on the Laser Link0-O-Rama thread that I present to newbies?

SanJose, I have floundered around for 2 years trying to understand the workings of the laser. It is good to see that we finally have someone who knows what he is talking about. Do you mind if I use some of your info on the Laser Link0-O-Rama thread that I present to newbies?

Sure, I would put a disclaimer though, I'm just one person researching this stuff by myself. I'm not a doctor, and my info could possibly be slightly innacurate or even flat out wrong. Each person should just use the info to dig deeper and find out more about these lasers for themselves. However, I can say my info seems to be a little more accurate than that found on sites like medicalspamd.

I'm still learning about these lasers, I'll let you know when I learn more and get more accurate and concrete numbers from the different laser technologies.

People also shouldn't choose their doctor based upon what laser they own. UP and SP are both excellent, you should instead choose your doctor upon their skill and knowledge with lasers, that should be the priority, not what laser they own, since both technologies are pretty much safe, and we aren't burn patients.

Dudely, you should also know, I stumbled upon some news from Reliant/Solta Medical, the makers of fraxel. They are teaming up with Phillips to make at home devices!!! Imagine, doing laser treatments in your own home! I can't wait.

People also shouldn't choose their doctor based upon what laser they own. UP and SP are both excellent, you should instead choose your doctor upon their skill and knowledge with lasers, that should be the priority, not what laser they own, since both technologies are pretty much safe, and we aren't burn patients.

It's not easy to find out how much experience or how "good" your doctor is with a laser though. I wouldn't know how anyway.

SanJose, I would have to imagine those would be very mild units for home use.

yah, how would I know if my doc is good with laser? LOL..... it's like fliping a coin. but he did seemed conflident saying that 3treatments will give me about 60percent improvement. I wonder if other doctors will say the samething or not...

I would say that just be prepared for some serious downtime and if you have icepick or boxcar scars, don't expect miracles. With the subcision and laser, I think mine are actually worse.

How are they worse exactly?

yah, i am curious also. How did they get worse exactly? So you are saying DeepFX is good for rolling scar but not ice pick and boxcar scar? I am planning to do silicone injection later on also. Do you guys think DeepFX is a great investment? Anyone been successful with this treatment?

HiClub, 3 for 60% is pretty reasonable. I am probably in that ballpark after 3. I saw the biggest improvement between 1 and 2. Pay close attention to the treatment levels. If he goes too easy you may be dissapointed.

yah, i am curious also. How did they get worse exactly? So you are saying DeepFX is good for rolling scar but not ice pick and boxcar scar? I am planning to do silicone injection later on also. Do you guys think DeepFX is a great investment? Anyone been successful with this treatment?

Hey how old are you? If you are young, I would say don't do silicone. I know this will anger people, but I just feel introducing something that foreign and that permenant into your face is not wise for someone really young to do. It is absolutely a life time commitment. If anything negative happens, it has to be cut out of your face, no other way to extrude, none! The future looks too promising for someone young to do this. I'm sure within 10 yrs we will have safe stem cell treatments, and other ways to induce our own collagen growth. If you are 70 yrs old, then I say go for it.

You should try fillers that are long lasting but not permanent. Maybe juvederm?

dudely- what treatment level should I tell the doc to do?

sanjoseskin-yah, Im only 22years old.... pretty young. So i guess silicone injection is not a good idea? hmm...... Isn't Stem Cell treatment out in Europe? Also,Why would I do Juvederm if it's temporary? And how long lasting is it?

Also, what do u guys think about TCA Crossing for Ice Pick scars?

dudely- what treatment level should I tell the doc to do?

 

sanjoseskin-yah, Im only 22years old.... pretty young. So i guess silicone injection is not a good idea? hmm...... Isn't Stem Cell treatment out in Europe? Also,Why would I do Juvederm if it's temporary? And how long lasting is it?

 

Also, what do u guys think about TCA Crossing for Ice Pick scars?

I was implying you could do juvederm, buy yourself a few yrs, till better lasers come out, and stem cell is approved in the US.

Juvederm I think is 1 yr? I don't really know.

Plus why would you want foreign substances long lasting in your face?

true, so what would u recommed besides DeepFX?

do you recommend TCA Cross, Smoothbeam?

true, so what would u recommed besides DeepFX?

do you recommend TCA Cross, Smoothbeam?

probably going to hate my answer, but I wish someone told me this when I was your age, don't mess with your skin. Try to deal with the scars for a few more yrs, it really looks like we are on the cusp of new great safe procedures.

You have to remember, dermabrasion, subcision, chemical peels, rolling, and lasers will all change your skin in some aspect permanently. They all have complications, none are 100 percent complication free.

Dermabrasion will cause color and texture problems

Subcsion will create a new scar below your epidermis, you can't see it but its there. I like subcision, but I have to be honest.

chemical peels will mess with your skin color.

TCA cross just sounds barbaric

lasers well they dont offer success for everyone yet.

According to the article rolling causes type 3 to type 1 collagen formation. What does that mean? I don't know

I'm being dramatic I know. The truth is these procedures all mess up your skin in some aspect. I've had them all done. I wish I could go back 10 yrs, when I was young and starting my journey with scar revision, I wish someone had told me to be patient. It actually sadens me to think about all the trauma I put my skin through. I did achieve results, but I feel like my face is one big blob of scar tissue from everything i've done.

So my sound advice to you is just be patient. Try something minimmally invase, maybe fillers I don't know. Buy your self some time, untill the next generation of lasers come out, and for stem cell treatments to surface.

I know, waking up everyday and looking in the mirror sucks. Trust me, I've spent years and thousands of dollars trying to soak up the tears. I'm conviced I've done more to my skin for acne scars than anyone on this planet.

Try to just be patient, I think if you skip the invasive stuff, in 20 yrs your skin will thank you.

thx for reply. I mean i understand the consequences and the side effects(?) but still how I am going to wait 20years LOL.... and when is stem cell treatment coming out?

thx for reply. I mean i understand the consequences and the side effects(?) but still how I am going to wait 20years LOL.... and when is stem cell treatment coming out?

lol i didn't mean 20 yrs. I meant give it another 5 yrs. By 5 yrs the market will be saturated with fractional co2, which means no more income for the laser companies. This means they will roll out the new technology that they are hiding from us now, to generate more sales. I think it is just going to get safer and better. Plus hopefully by 5 yrs we will be closer to generating our own collagen.

Why not get a filler that lasts a yr or 2, untill something awesome comes out. Most fillers are relatively safe I think, I don't know for sure.

I mean if you are desperate and can't help looking at your scars, well nothing can hold you back

Fillers are great for a temporary solution. THe problem is that it is expensive if you keep going back to get it done. I'm 90% sure that Juvederm contains foreign chemicals. The absolute safest fillers are Restylane and Perlane, which I have used. It contains hyaluronic acid which the body itself produces. It doesnt last as long as Juvederm though.