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Hey Matt im very happy for you! Your improvement is supernatural. Your first two photos did not work, although your third did. I had a couple questions that I think could help me and others.
1. What was the device you "successfully" used for suctioning?
2. How visible was your hematoma? *pics*?
3. Price?
Thanks Matt, for keeping us informed and sharing your experiences!
1. I used a small Oreck hand-held vacuum sweeper. As I mentioned in my post, I used my right hand as a 'buffer' because the suction power from the nozzle was simply too strong to be used directly against my skin. I think that any vacuuming device would probably work.
2. My hematoma (bruise) on my left cheek was very prominent - I'm glad that I had taken two weeks off for this procedure. By the time I went back to work, the bruise was still noticeable but not nearly as bad as it was the first two weeks. I'm hoping that it resolves itself in the next four weeks and doesn't scar or complicate things. As I mentioned, the other three deep scars on my left cheek have disappeared. So, I think that the daily suctioning, as odd as it may seem, may have actually played a role. I have the next four days off, so I am going to see if I can get some additional photos on here. That is the best way to learn what to expect and how effective a procedure is. When I read posts on this site about people who claim 90 or 100% improvement yet do not post and 'before' and 'after' photos, I'm a bit suspicious of their claims.
3. So far, I have been fortunate as far as post-surgical scarring is concerned. I had one scar on my jaw that was treated that, at first, appeared to leave a scar a couple of years ago. However, I had one treatment with the Pearl Fractional Laser and it resolved itself.
4. Price: $400.00 for both cheeks. I think that this is totally reasonable after reading what others have paid for the same procedure.
Let me know if you have any additional questions.
Matt
I've done suctioning and I felt it played a huge role. There was one scar that I failed to suction because it was harder to get the nozzle there and it turned out that scar did not respond as well as the others months down the road. I also just recently had my fourth subcision. As for the past 3 that I suctioned.. I wouldn't say it gave me 90 to 100% at all... more like on the higher percentage of what subcision promises. so like 50-60% vs 20-30. My percentages are just based on a gut feeling, no real bases for measuring that. It does keep prolonged redness there, even longer for me since I do needling and subcision at the same time. Thank you Matt for taking the time to share your personal journey. It played a role in me getting subcision for myself, and it was the best thing I did. Thanks! BTW this time around I am also doing the LED light, red infrared and yellow. I will see months later if I feel like this played any positive role.
I've done suctioning and I felt it played a huge role. There was one scar that I failed to suction because it was harder to get the nozzle there and it turned out that scar did not respond as well as the others months down the road. I also just recently had my fourth subcision. As for the past 3 that I suctioned.. I wouldn't say it gave me 90 to 100% at all... more like on the higher percentage of what subcision promises. so like 50-60% vs 20-30. My percentages are just based on a gut feeling, no real bases for measuring that. It does keep prolonged redness there, even longer for me since I do needling and subcision at the same time. Thank you Matt for taking the time to share your personal journey. It played a role in me getting subcision for myself, and it was the best thing I did. Thanks! BTW this time around I am also doing the LED light, red infrared and yellow. I will see months later if I feel like this played any positive role.
What type of needling do you do? Good luck.
1. I used a small Oreck hand-held vacuum sweeper. As I mentioned in my post, I used my right hand as a 'buffer' because the suction power from the nozzle was simply too strong to be used directly against my skin. I think that any vacuuming device would probably work.
2. My hematoma (bruise) on my left cheek was very prominent - I'm glad that I had taken two weeks off for this procedure. By the time I went back to work, the bruise was still noticeable but not nearly as bad as it was the first two weeks. I'm hoping that it resolves itself in the next four weeks and doesn't scar or complicate things. As I mentioned, the other three deep scars on my left cheek have disappeared. So, I think that the daily suctioning, as odd as it may seem, may have actually played a role. I have the next four days off, so I am going to see if I can get some additional photos on here. That is the best way to learn what to expect and how effective a procedure is. When I read posts on this site about people who claim 90 or 100% improvement yet do not post and 'before' and 'after' photos, I'm a bit suspicious of their claims.
3. So far, I have been fortunate as far as post-surgical scarring is concerned. I had one scar on my jaw that was treated that, at first, appeared to leave a scar a couple of years ago. However, I had one treatment with the Pearl Fractional Laser and it resolved itself.
4. Price: $400.00 for both cheeks. I think that this is totally reasonable after reading what others have paid for the same procedure.
Let me know if you have any additional questions.
Matt
I am not sure if you have alredy posted this (I can't seem to find it). How many scars did the doctor work on?
Thanks for the great thread.
My doctor subcised four scars on my left cheek three of which I can't see anymore and today marks the four week 'anniversary' since the treatment.
On my right cheek, he treated an area that was the compilation of several scars that had developed in one area. I had had about five or so cysts develop in the same area in high school. The end result was that it created a huge depression or crater-look to my right cheek. The four subcision treatments on my right cheek coupled with the multiple dermarolling sessions with a 1.5 cm roller have lifted the scarred area to where it is much less noticeable.
I have the day off today and I will work on seeing if I can get the links to work to the photos I've taken over the past four weeks.
My doctor subcised four scars on my left cheek three of which I can't see anymore and today marks the four week 'anniversary' since the treatment.
On my right cheek, he treated an area that was the compilation of several scars that had developed in one area. I had had about five or so cysts develop in the same area in high school. The end result was that it created a huge depression or crater-look to my right cheek. The four subcision treatments on my right cheek coupled with the multiple dermarolling sessions with a 1.5 cm roller have lifted the scarred area to where it is much less noticeable.
I have the day off today and I will work on seeing if I can get the links to work to the photos I've taken over the past four weeks.
Is this same doctor doing the dermarolling treatments for you or are you doing them yourself?
No, my doctor does not offer dermarolling (collagen induction therapy) as a part of his practice. However, I believe that he is convinced that the dermarolling has definitely improved the collagen production in my face because he told me to focus my dermarolling on my left chin. He wouldn't perform subcision there because of a major artery that resides there and he said it wasn't worth the risk.
I've added another link here of some photos that I've taken over the past four weeks documenting my progress with this fourth round of subcision. If this link works, I'll upload more photos. I want to upload my baseline photos to show viewers just how far I've come since I began this journey.
Here is a link to some photos of my left cheek from Day II up to a photo that I took today.
A small raised hematoma persists on my left cheek but, as you will see, it has reduced in size considerably and the bruising is fading with the passage of each day.
http://photobucket.com/mrmattleftcheek
I'm working on an album with my right cheek. Stay tuned for more photos.....
Sure. I have a small area of scars that extend from the bottom of my left lip down to the left jaw bone area - it's basically a straight line of small scars.
I think that I've made a believer out of my doctor when it comes to dermarolling. He told me to ..."dermaroll the heck out of that area." In fact, one member of his staff asked me several questions about dermarolling as she could see the progress that I had made with my complexion. I gave her the website addresses and info that I had.
That was all I had to hear and I told him that it wasn't worth the risk. I trust my doctor and didn't want to end up creating more problems and possibly going to the ER.
I'm contemplating a fifth subcision treatment this summer to get two scars which remain.
I was in a department store today and saw my reflection in the mirror - major difference in how my skin looks today. No perfect - but MUCH, MUCH, better. 
This website has been a 'treasure trove' of good information for me. I do believe that the suctioning that I did for two weeks every day after the four treatment really made a difference. I am sure that my doctor will be surprised to see how much improvement I had with this last round of subcision.
I'm going to post my 'baseline' photos from 2009 sometime this week to show viewers where I began and where I am today - a major improvement gained through four rounds of subcision, four rounds of laser, multiple chemical peels, and numerous dermarolling sessions.
QUOTE (KnicksRock @ May 13 2009, 10:50 AM)
where is your doc again Matt? I wonder if it's worth flying out to a doctor in a different state if you cannot find one in your own state. Good luck with the healing.
My dermatologist's name is Dr. John DeSpain.
Here is his webpage:
Hope this helps.
Matt
Holy crap Matt!! I'm glad I read nearly all of this thread and found that you got your Subcision done in Columbia, MO. That's only a 2 hour drive from where I live. I've been looking for someone that has experience with acne scars and most importantly using subcision. I'm definately going to get a consult with this guy next week!!!!
Do you know how long DeSpain has been doing subcision? Or total number of patients he has performed this on?
Also do you know how long he has had the Pearl Fractional resurfacing laser for? As you know the longer a doc has a laser the better they are at understanding and utilizing its capabilities.
Curious do you live in Columbia or did you commute?
Thanks man!
I approached Dr. DeSpain about three to four years ago and asked him if he would consider performing subcision on my acne scars.
Up until that point in time, I don't believe that he had performed the procedure. In fact, he didn't have anything on his website about acne scar revision.
My mom had severly disfiguring cystic acne and had dermabrasion done in the 1950's as dermabrasion was the only thing known at the time to help with scarring. She could have benefited so much from subcision had the doctors then known about it. She suffered terribly from the results of her scarring.
As far as I know, Dr. DeSpain has been doing subcision for about three years now and performed the procedure on several patients. I don't know how many patients he has treated, but I do know this: he is a highly skilled dermatological surgeon and I believe that he does some teaching at the University of Missouri School of Medicine. He has a highly successful practice and it can take weeks to get an appointment on this calendar.
As far as the Pearl Fractional Laser is concerned, he has had it for at least two to three years. This laser did help even out my skin tone. I do believe, however, that dermarolling is as effective if not more effective than lasers coupled with subcision.
Some things to keep in mind:
1) if you're a smoker, you should stop smoking as this can adversely affect the outcome of any surgical procedure. Smoking also damages the fragile collagen in your skin.
2) look into topical Ester C products containing DMAE and Alpha Lipoic Acid. All three of these items are known to create collagen within your skin. I buy a product containing these items through Vitacost.com for a very reasonable price. I've been pleased with the results.
3) seriously consider the subcision/suction method. I've been very pleased with the results.
4) ask your doctor about getting a prescription for Retin A - it has really made my skin look very healthy
5) consider doing chemical peels - 70% Glycolic Acid or Lactic Acid- you'll need to build up to this percentage. Both are known for promoting collagen development
6) I've been using an LED light - red and infared light off and on for the past two or three years. It definitely helps with inflammation issues. As far as the collagen development is concerned, I'm not as sure about that
7) wear sunscreen seven days a week - you'll want to protect your 'investment'
Hope this helps....
I'm adding a link to show my 'before' and 'after' photos.
I took my 'baseline' photos in February of 2009 to capture what my skin looked like before all of these treatments. I've added photos of what I look like today.
I've had major improvement, but kind in mind that this was not an 'overnight' result. I began this process about three years ago and have had multiple procedures to get to this point. Again, my complexion is not perfect, but it is very presentable and I am so happy with the results. Thank you to those of you who have sent me messages encouraging me on this journey!
To recap, I've had the following procedures done:
1) Four subcision treatments beginning in 2009 through the end of 2011
2) One TCA Cross in 2009
3) One 25% TCA Chemical Peel - July 2011
4) One Pearl Fractional Laser treatment - November 2010
5) Multiple chemical peels - 70% glycolic acid & 70% lactic acid (not at the same time)
6) Daily application of Retin A
7) Use topical Ester C, DMAE, and Alpha Lipoic Acid
8) Intermittent use of Red/Infared LED device
9) multiple dermaroller sessions spaced out every 42 days
10) Daily use of sunscreen
11) Take a multi-vitamin, a Zinc supplement (50mg), and Vitamin D
http://photobucket.com/baselinetodaypostsubcision
I hope that someone reading this post will be encouraged to seek out help to improve their scarring. Also, I want to encourage people to SHARE what they've learned about what has helped them with their scarring. We can learn so much from one another if we're willing to share.
Matt
Yes, I used the light for five minutes each on my left and right cheeks. I'm still using it and will probably continue to do so for the next couple of weeks. After that, I'm not sure.
It really helps with the inflammation and I hope that it helps with the collagen development.
Yes, I used the light for five minutes each on my left and right cheeks. I'm still using it and will probably continue to do so for the next couple of weeks. After that, I'm not sure.
It really helps with the inflammation and I hope that it helps with the collagen development.
Is there research that proves that LEDs help with collagen remodeling?
I found this article in the Indian Journal of Dermatology: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2763719/
Fibroblasts are responsible for producing collagen.
"Light-emitting diode (LED)
Apart from the light- and laser-based devices described above, three newly described nonablative technologies have been used for treatment in ethnic skin types. Light Emitting Diodes (LEDs) represent the latest advancement in visible spectrum, monochromatic light therapy for photoaged skin. Typically, LEDs in devices are arrayed in panels, and each emits visible light in a 10-20 nm band around the dominant emitted wavelength. Energy output is less than 25 W, representing a fluence of about 0.1 J/cm2. The Gentlewaves LED device (Light Biosciences, Virginia Beach, VA, USA) recently received approval from the US Food and Drug Administration for the treatment of periorbital wrinkling.20 In brief, this device is thought to act by targeted stimulation of fibroblastic mitochondrial metabolic activity, concomitant upregulation of procollagen, and downregulation of matrix metalloproteinase I.21,22 "
I've read other articles on the web that talk about how LED's can be effective in wound repair which is why I have used my unit after my subcision and laser treatments.
http://www.thorlaser.com/wound/clinical-research.htm
Time will tell if this is an effective way to produce collagen.....
I found this article in the Indian Journal of Dermatology: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2763719/
Fibroblasts are responsible for producing collagen.
"Light-emitting diode (LED)
Apart from the light- and laser-based devices described above, three newly described nonablative technologies have been used for treatment in ethnic skin types. Light Emitting Diodes (LEDs) represent the latest advancement in visible spectrum, monochromatic light therapy for photoaged skin. Typically, LEDs in devices are arrayed in panels, and each emits visible light in a 10-20 nm band around the dominant emitted wavelength. Energy output is less than 25 W, representing a fluence of about 0.1 J/cm2. The Gentlewaves LED device (Light Biosciences, Virginia Beach, VA, USA) recently received approval from the US Food and Drug Administration for the treatment of periorbital wrinkling.20 In brief, this device is thought to act by targeted stimulation of fibroblastic mitochondrial metabolic activity, concomitant upregulation of procollagen, and downregulation of matrix metalloproteinase I.21,22 "
I've read other articles on the web that talk about how LED's can be effective in wound repair which is why I have used my unit after my subcision and laser treatments.
http://www.thorlaser...al-research.htm
Time will tell if this is an effective way to produce collagen.....
Great reply. Please keep us posted.
I decided to share my journey because I read someone else's posts on this site who had subcision and had shared her results. Frankly, I was amazed at what I saw and wanted to try subcision and other scar revision methods to help my face.
Just a quick update: it's been 49 days since my fourth subcision treatment. I have a very small lump and bruise on my left cheek that continues to become slightly smaller each week. I'm hopeful that this may be a sign that collagen is developing.
The good news is this: three of the four scars treated on my left cheek have vanished. Gone. They were fairly deep and wide and were quite visible because they were on or near my right cheek bone.
I used the 'suction' technique mentioned by a previous poster and it seemed to make all of the difference in the world. I keep looking at myself in the mirror at work, in my car, and in our bathroom waiting for the scars to return, but they haven't.