first off, lamarr1986 your progress is very good. I'm very impressed and motivated. You've achieved that in only 1 1/2 year? I've been reading through your previous posts which is over 83 pages, wow! You've gone through a lot and now your helping hundreds of people, that's amazing bro. If you don't mind i have a few questions.

What size of dermaroller did your profession dr. use and do you still have him do it for you? and you only dermaroll once 6-8 weeks? (how long did he roll on your face for) I've done 1 roll and red spots but barely any bleeding took about 5-10 mins he rubbed hard tho.

. You said you used the needles 8-10 times each or 8-10 sessions then replaced? The site you suggested was diabetic 33gauge 5mm but you said you only used 4mm with a 1mm stopper, confused about this cuz u didnt want the full 4mm so you only use 3mm?) I'm confused because your only supposed to needle yourself before the roll and don't you have a pro do it for or do you do it on your own now? Can i get links on where to get your roller?

about the led lights: are these the correct lights?

Mega Array with 96 590nm Yellow LEDs Super Bright 18,000 mcd $124.95 plus shipping

and Dual 660/880 Array With total 96 LEDS 1/2 red, 1/2 infrared $124.95 plus shipping

OR

(I read a previous post and I think you have this one, you didn't rearrange the lights?)

880/660 Mixed Panel Array One panel with 350 - 880nm Infrared and 350 - 660 red LEDs in alternating rows. Seperately switchable, other colors available $695.00 plus shipping

THE SETUP:

EMLA(obtained through dr.) 45 minutes prior to 1.5(for starters)-2.0mm dermaroller

Apply cold ice patches to skin to reduce swelling

12 hours later Use 660/680 leds for 5 minutes on one face

Use 590 yellow led for 3 minutes on same side (then switch sides)

Apply terpoline twice a day, 12 hours after needling?(obtained through doctor)

And i'm confused as retina- /creams/ vitamin pills or creams or is terpoline have it all?

I'm going to the doctor soon and he currently has me on retina and its too harsh for my skin(anything i should ask for) and i'd like him to needle my scars before dermarolling as well then i'll start doing it myself.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Wow! Your skin looks amazing!!

I just don't think I can even consider the derma roller for myself though.. I've seen photos of the treatment and it scared me witless.. I still wince just thinking about it..

Props to you for having the guts to do it! And congratulations on the fab results

When you expose they small blood clotts to the LED therapy you get biostimulation, which recruits many substances (stem cells especially) and upregulates a number of biological processes, your healing can be made as good as when you were a child.

Lamarr-

Do you have any website links you could post that describe and document this process? Preferably any sites that aren't selling lights?

Also, are you needling on the same days that you are dermarolling? If not, when do you needle in relation to dermarolling?

Is Dr Chu using 1.5mm or 2.0mm? Do you have an opinion of which length is best?

 

you are not going to find many documented roller/led treatments because its new. Lamarr has brought it to everybody's attention. He got great results so he is the documented test subject. He does needle on the same day as do I. I am using a 1.5mm some use smaller and some use the 2.0mm. it depends on your scar severity and what you are willing to use on yourself. 1.5mm is for scaring, 2.0mm is for deeper scaring. but both sizes are for scars. I have several depper scars. but I am needling them and then rolling. so I'm not using the roller to deal with the deeper scars persay.

Final questions, how many total rolling sessions have you had, and after how many did you really start to notice a difference?

Also did you have any ice picks, if not, do you think this treatment can help those (along with needling)?

Thanks a lot man

crzyakta, I'm not trying to prevent you from getting your question answered by lamarr. But there are so many factors that play a part in what results and when that his results may not be quite like yours or mine. we will all tend to respond differently. Just wanted to throw that out there because I dont think we can expect our results to go exactly like anothers.

And I have plenty of ice picks. needling along with derma rolling can certainly help. I have needled many scars on my face about a month ago followed by derma rolling. didn't I speak to you about this?? some of my scars have widened or acually look worse. which is ok. this can be a result of damage from the needling or it may just be the scar is larger now because it has broken free.. while in its original state the scar may have been pulled tight making it appear smaller. and regardless, in a few weeks I'll hit it again and it will eventually raise up.

on another note. I have a couple long time stubborn scars I needled which have filled in very well from self needling.

you are not going to find many documented roller/led treatments because its new. Lamarr has brought it to everybody's attention. He got great results so he is the documented test subject.

WOW. I don't mean any offense, but that statement is not reassuring at all. I for one will not spend hundreds of dollars on what looks to be a shady website at best, based on the results that ONE man has supposedly gotten.

Derma rolling and needling at least has some science to back it up. There is at least some documented success.

Again, perhaps Lamarr can elaborate on his research or post some links that at least adequately explain the science behind the theory that LED Treatments will help with healing.

I don't mean any offense, but that statement is not reassuring at all. I for one will not spend hundreds of dollars on what looks to be a shady website at best, based on the results that ONE man has supposedly gotten.

Derma rolling and needling at least has some science to back it up. There is at least some documented success.

Again, perhaps Lamarr can elaborate on his research or post some links that at least adequately explain the science behind the theory that LED Treatments will help with healing.

Bro i am just here to bring things to light for people, you can do your own research and use your own logic to understand how this works. There are several other forums where people (middle aged women) have done something similar to what i have done, with equal success.

Please don't buy from the LED mans site if you think it looks dodgy, you can buy a DPL system which is much less powerfull but will still do a similar job, you will be able to find them on fancy website(apparently more reassuring to the customer)

There is a reason why LED and light therapy in general is becoming more popular amungst both home and spa users. It WORKS!! my girlfriend who is several years younger than me was getting a few blackheads i have along my hairline (where the light doesn't get) and she commented on how tight and firm my skin is she could barely pinch any to get the blackheads out....

I hate it when people come here expecting to have everything explained to them, as if they expect me and others to be soem sort of salesperson. We aren't here to sell jack and if you want to wait until numerous other peopel report similar results to mine, then be my guest. But don't moan when you realise you have wasted a year.

I get pms from people telling me how this is working better for them than anything else they have tried.

Final questions, how many total rolling sessions have you had, and after how many did you really start to notice a difference?

Also did you have any ice picks, if not, do you think this treatment can help those (along with needling)?

Thanks a lot man

Hey bro, well i have had about 6 sessions of dermaroller. The first two i had done without any light therapy. Results were there but maybe only 20-30% improvement? When i added the light therapy i was getting aprox 20% improvement on top of this every session. Obviously results go down after each treatment after you have had several. But i still do them as i believe i can still get 5% here and there!!

I do think it can help icepicks yes, but i would recommend you try and get some subsission or do some agressive needling in a similar method as subscission. I personnally use the 4mm needles and work under the scars in a similar manner as subscission.

When you expose they small blood clotts to the LED therapy you get biostimulation, which recruits many substances (stem cells especially) and upregulates a number of biological processes, your healing can be made as good as when you were a child.

Lamarr-

Do you have any website links you could post that describe and document this process? Preferably any sites that aren't selling lights?

Also, are you needling on the same days that you are dermarolling? If not, when do you needle in relation to dermarolling?

Is Dr Chu using 1.5mm or 2.0mm? Do you have an opinion of which length is best?

 

I am not going to give you direct links, but here is a clue. Go on google and type in "LLLT effects on wound healing study" or Light therapy effects on healing etc.

You will find what you are after. I don't have anything saved in my favorites anymore i did all this research over a year ago.

first off, lamarr1986 your progress is very good. I'm very impressed and motivated. You've achieved that in only 1 1/2 year? I've been reading through your previous posts which is over 83 pages, wow! You've gone through a lot and now your helping hundreds of people, that's amazing bro. If you don't mind i have a few questions.

What size of dermaroller did your profession dr. use and do you still have him do it for you? and you only dermaroll once 6-8 weeks? (how long did he roll on your face for) I've done 1 roll and red spots but barely any bleeding took about 5-10 mins he rubbed hard tho.

. You said you used the needles 8-10 times each or 8-10 sessions then replaced? The site you suggested was diabetic 33gauge 5mm but you said you only used 4mm with a 1mm stopper, confused about this cuz u didnt want the full 4mm so you only use 3mm?) I'm confused because your only supposed to needle yourself before the roll and don't you have a pro do it for or do you do it on your own now? Can i get links on where to get your roller?

about the led lights: are these the correct lights?

Mega Array with 96 590nm Yellow LEDs Super Bright 18,000 mcd $124.95 plus shipping

and Dual 660/880 Array With total 96 LEDS 1/2 red, 1/2 infrared $124.95 plus shipping

OR

(I read a previous post and I think you have this one, you didn't rearrange the lights?)

880/660 Mixed Panel Array One panel with 350 - 880nm Infrared and 350 - 660 red LEDs in alternating rows. Seperately switchable, other colors available $695.00 plus shipping

THE SETUP:

EMLA(obtained through dr.) 45 minutes prior to 1.5(for starters)-2.0mm dermaroller

Apply cold ice patches to skin to reduce swelling

12 hours later Use 660/680 leds for 5 minutes on one face

Use 590 yellow led for 3 minutes on same side (then switch sides)

Apply terpoline twice a day, 12 hours after needling?(obtained through doctor)

And i'm confused as retina- /creams/ vitamin pills or creams or is terpoline have it all?

I'm going to the doctor soon and he currently has me on retina and its too harsh for my skin(anything i should ask for) and i'd like him to needle my scars before dermarolling as well then i'll start doing it myself.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Long post... i hope i don't miss anything. Yep the needles are listed as being 5mm, but when you recieve them and actually measure them they measure 4mm. Then i use the rubber stoppers. I wish i could provide links to these stoppers but i get them from my dad (he is a dentist).

I had professional dermaroller done for my first two sessions using a 1.5mm roller, i since did it for myself. Once every 6 weeks is probably ideal in my opinon. People who are rolling with anything shortly after they have done a dermaroller sessions are silly because collagen is fragile in it's early state. Before conversion from type 1 collagen to type 3 if i remember correctly.

I use the slimmer rollers because as my derm says they glide over the face better. The "slim line dr roller" or something along those lines, from ebay is perfect. You can go for 1.5mm or 2mm, i would recommend 1.5 to begin with.

I have a flat panael 700 led array with half red and half infra red. I also have the 96led yellow version.

About the retina and supplements. The only thing i recommend is oral vitamin C (and maybe some high quality red grape seed extract), if your skin can handle a mild retinoid then use it once per day, 12 hours after your application of terproline. I don't like mixing topicals like these because you just don't know what may happen when the chemicals interact. I also don't like copper peptides as i haven't seen much succsess with them that can't be put down to the procedure itself, but that is just my feeling on them and i won't try and stop other people from using them.

To the people who question my procedure, let me fill you in why i come back here...

I come back here to report my progress as i feel all of your pain, scars suck, i used to hide in the shadows on sunny days.

I ALWAYS try and help people. Read my posts on this forum account, i help people with numerous problems. It is just my nature.

PLEASE ALL OF YOU WHO SEE RESULTS WITH THE LIGHT THERAPY REPORT BACK. EVEN IF YOU DON'T PLEASE GIVE YOUR OPINOIN ON LIGHT THERAPY IN CONJUNCTION WITH YOUR SCAR REVISION TECHNIQUES.

Everyone will see some visible benefits from the lights.

I don't want anything from anyone and i don't want an ego boost. I purely post pictures and write down what i do so we can all improve our treatments. I have no real reason to be here anymore other than the fact i love helping people (wish i had become a Dr like most of my family, instead of a business degree)

I don't know why i am doing this because i hate effectively having to defend myself. This took me exactly 5 seconds to find.

http://www.uj.ac.za/lrg/FieldsofStudy/Phot...58/Default.aspx

Lamarr

Do you use eye protection whilst doing the LED treatments? It is recommended by some and I thought you may have a pair of protective glasses you use.

Anyone else? I think this is important, not to neglect the eyes - we don't want to trade one problem for another!

I don't at the moment but did when i was using them daily.

hey all,

lamarr, I have a question about using needles for subcision. How did you do it with diabetic lancet? And do you insert it with an angle or go vertical? How many times? Thanks man!

Don't get lancets confused with needles. I do not use a lancet (i am talking about the blade shaped lancets) this would probably result in further scarring.

I use diabetic needles and insert the needle at the borders of the scar and then angle the needle underneeth the scar and then move the needle as if you were trying to cut the fibros tissue. I do this from all angles and as many times as i can until i can't make out the scar anymore (they swell up).

ok, I got it, thanks!

wait...isn't the blade shaped lancets better for cutting fibros tissues? Do derms use needles to perform subcisions? I don't really understand this part but I'm gonna buy the needles, anyways thanks!

btw, I just received LEDs yesterday, they were hand-held ones, just making sure that I use suggested exposure time for both right and left cheek?

do you think that these things make you sun sensitive? im a surfer and spend a lot of time outdoors.

ok, I got it, thanks!

wait...isn't the blade shaped lancets better for cutting fibros tissues? Do derms use needles to perform subcisions? I don't really understand this part but I'm gonna buy the needles, anyways thanks!

btw, I just received LEDs yesterday, they were hand-held ones, just making sure that I use suggested exposure time for both right and left cheek?

Yes the way derms do it is different though. I wouldn't risk doing what a derm does on myself....

Use the leds for aprox 5 minutes in every area being treated, hold them about an inch from the skin.

do you think that these things make you sun sensitive? im a surfer and spend a lot of time outdoors.

Maybe for a week ro two. But you REALLY need a sunblock for a few months after dermaroller, prefferably a physical sunblock with high levels of zinc oxide in it.

There are a number of them which use 'microfine zinc' which means you can use the zinc oxide without it being to thick and obvious.

[Yes the way derms do it is different though. I wouldn't risk doing what a derm does on myself....

Use the leds for aprox 5 minutes in every area being treated, hold them about an inch from the skin.

]

I'm in a big dilemma of choosing to do a c02 resurfacing with led lights or doing needling/rolling with lights.... lamarr1968 any suggestions?

Did you mean you don't risk needling yourself or letting the derm needling for you? I'm about to buy the led lights and was wondering if i should apply directly after session or wait, and if everyday until the next session and should i do 5 minutes of 660/880 or w.e and then 5 minutes of 590 yellow? Thanks man-

oh one last thing: is "bio oil" a moisturizer i should be using? my skin is kinda dry and cleansing it makes it even dryer so dont cleanse it right? and terpoline is like retina but different ingredients?

hey Lamarr,

"Maybe for a week ro two. But you REALLY need a sunblock for a few months after dermaroller, prefferably a physical sunblock with high levels of zinc oxide in it."

Is this only to prevent hyperpigmentation, or is there another reason for it?

Thanks

[Yes the way derms do it is different though. I wouldn't risk doing what a derm does on myself....

Use the leds for aprox 5 minutes in every area being treated, hold them about an inch from the skin.

]

I'm in a big dilemma of choosing to do a c02 resurfacing with led lights or doing needling/rolling with lights.... lamarr1968 any suggestions?

Did you mean you don't risk needling yourself or letting the derm needling for you? I'm about to buy the led lights and was wondering if i should apply directly after session or wait, and if everyday until the next session and should i do 5 minutes of 660/880 or w.e and then 5 minutes of 590 yellow? Thanks man-

oh one last thing: is "bio oil" a moisturizer i should be using? my skin is kinda dry and cleansing it makes it even dryer so dont cleanse it right? and terpoline is like retina but different ingredients?

I don't like bio oil but i don't think it will do any harm.Terproline is nothing like retin-a works via a totally different method, it is non irritating and will act as a moisturiser. I said i wouldn't risk doing subscission on myself with a blade like doctors use 5 minutes 660/880 and 590 every day per area. You can wait for a few days after the procedure if you want.

hey Lamarr,

"Maybe for a week ro two. But you REALLY need a sunblock for a few months after dermaroller, prefferably a physical sunblock with high levels of zinc oxide in it."

Is this only to prevent hyperpigmentation, or is there another reason for it?

Thanks

No that isn't the reason atall. People don't realise half the time why they dont get results from their surgeries. With the sun, basically collagen is broken down by certain frequencies in the sunlight, aspecially when it is the type of collagen which is developing after a scar revision procedure.

Sunblock is parramount, but i thought everyone would know that!! why do you think they say to use a sunblock to avoid wrinkles!!

Hope this helps.

does using the dermaroller only help improve the appearance of scars, as in help with the color where it doesnt appear as red or does it actually help fill up the "holes" as well?

dermarolling/needling is to help with atrophic (pitted) scarring, yes.

i've had five so far and i think it has helped with scars on my upper cheek, but the ones on the lower cheek still look very much pitted. could it be because they're deeper?

lamar- so you subcise your scars yourself? what kind of needles do you use? i recently bought some restylane that comes with its own syringes/needles, do you think i could subcise the scars first and then put the filler in? is there any issue with the strength of the needles.

i've had five so far and i think it has helped with scars on my upper cheek, but the ones on the lower cheek still look very much pitted. could it be because they're deeper?

what type of scars do you have and how ba dwould you say they were ... if you stretch the skin surroung the scar does the scar dissapear ? if they dont they will need more treatment then the ones thath do. Dr chu recommend tca for the few 'fixed' scars that i have (non stretchable) and dermaroller for all the other ones

also .. what topicals are you using ?

hey v_singh:

"what type of scars do you have and how ba dwould you say they were ... if you stretch the skin surroung the scar does the scar dissapear ? if they dont they will need more treatment then the ones thath do."

Most of my scarring actually disappears when I do this...except the deeper ice picks, interesting you mentioned this, where did you hear it?

Also bbb16, what needle length were the rollers and what was your post care like?

Thanks