Acne.org Products
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but Vavelta is now available in the UK: http://www.alizonne.co.uk/celltherapy.html
WTF? Interesting.... possibly meaningless.
http://www.lifescience.mext.go.jp/english/projects/b01.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/12/22/army.te...logy/index.html
CNN gives a year end recap of innovations by the military and discusses "magic dust" here in depth. It sounds like they are doing a lot of testing with it.
Logically, the more your body has to do to heal will detract from the overall attainment of perfection in any given area. I caution to concentrate on large areas at once due to this simple fact. You can't throw any given miracle powder on a wound and expect something from it just because it did wonders for a cat. It is unreasonable to think that the same can be said for an unhealthy (not at all debatable) balding man or acne sufferer who most definitely has inhibited wound healing mechanisms to begin with. My point: aim for the fast and easy approach and see little improvement as opposed to the slow and perfected approach that will achieve the maximum in wound healing standard.
My views on acne in general are very harsh. I have pitted scarring that has been treated with a plethora of widely used applications. I blame myself and circumstance for what has happened to me. It is time that we own up and realize that it took us years to get to where we are and it will take years (after the discovery of a cure) to get to where we think we should be.
Don't get me wrong here. I agree with the slow methodology BUT, I think you misunderstand my approach and the extent of my scarring. My scarring consist of many little white pocks with a varying texture. Hundreds... So individually excising them would take operations that would span maybe the rest of my life lol (slight exaggeration but very true). Now as far as inhibited wound healing goes, mine is actually quite good. In fact, the only real reason i have the scarring i do is because I was too active for my skins good =( My breakouts didn't concern me and I continued to fight (mma so a alot of pressure and rolling around lol), gymnastics and acrobatics, and just being crazy in general haha. I kept rupturing, injuring and reinjuring wounds. I believe it was this continuous cycle that gave me the scarring I have. And even if you look at it at a small scale, the scars are really not that big a deal... there's just a TON of them haha.
I know I will never have perfect skin again. My goal is to blend the overall appearance again. If I would have jumped on accutane when they told me I would not be here lol, but it was my choice to stay away from it. So in doing so I am left with my results (a tough price to pay hahah). As far as the procedure goes, I am not talking about doing my back shoulders and chest all at once... that would be insane. I am talking about doing patches at a time. It seem to be the best way to get the best area (in regards to general depth as well) vs time. I am no doctor, but I have researched a ton about skin (as I think we all have XD ). I don't know as much about it as others in this thread, but my method seems feasible to me. I mean hey if you can show me a hole in my foundation I will gladly bow down. But it works in my head lol =P
Logically, the more your body has to do to heal will detract from the overall attainment of perfection in any given area. I caution to concentrate on large areas at once due to this simple fact. You can't throw any given miracle powder on a wound and expect something from it just because it did wonders for a cat. It is unreasonable to think that the same can be said for an unhealthy (not at all debatable) balding man or acne sufferer who most definitely has inhibited wound healing mechanisms to begin with. My point: aim for the fast and easy approach and see little improvement as opposed to the slow and perfected approach that will achieve the maximum in wound healing standard.
My views on acne in general are very harsh. I have pitted scarring that has been treated with a plethora of widely used applications. I blame myself and circumstance for what has happened to me. It is time that we own up and realize that it took us years to get to where we are and it will take years (after the discovery of a cure) to get to where we think we should be.
Logic for you.
The same ecm in cats is found in humans too, in reptiles, dogs, pigs.
ECM is not magic dust, it is a component that takes up 30% of your body, all ECM is, is an uncomplicated scaffold frame work with tiny holes and pores in it that our smart tissues use to grow through, something I've heard is like how a snake crawls through a trellis.
If these tiny holes are blocked by denaturing (e.g. a chemical additive has beeen added that has blocked a percentage of micro holes) our tissues can not grow through most of the holes. What will happen is the body will degrade and regenerate the ecm, and this time the ecm will not have tissue filling through these holes, this will bring an emergancy fibrotic response, you will get encapsulation and spots of fibrosis on the material. Think what happens when pores get blocked up, the same thing happens with ecm.
It is all down to denaturing wether or not you get perfect regeneration. Our regenerated tissues have needed ecm since birth/conception.
IMO it is not the more your body has to heal it is more like: if the ecm has been denatured which stops the tissues crawling up the ecm.
Though you could assume a large area of fresh ecm (e.g. lets say a patch half the size of an elephants back) could be oxidized (which would denature, perhaps hyaluaric acid would aid here?) slightly more than a smaller area of ecm on a humans back, and the elephant might need a revision may be?
However that Elephants back theory, is not good, be it, as well as coming in from the sides the tissue also grows from underneath the ecm, meaning the central parts of the elephants ecm tissue would regenerate as fast as the sides.
Yes I know it's Xmas Eve, but I'm hangin in an airport and thought I'd post. So, Kirk, in your opinion, theoretically what do you think would happen if pure, unadulterated ECM that was kept moist was placed over a large, full-thickness wound (exposing the subcutaneous tissues)on the face, say 10cm x 12 cm. I mean, this is what zhou is proposing to do on his back....I'm guessing....treat patches of skin at a time. I feel this would lead to a patchwork of skin that doesn't look like surrounding skin. I dunno though.
Scar-prevention drugs may be already in the market.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/...80918192824.htm
"Next, they used a drug, already on the market, which blocks endothelin-1 and found it prevented scarring but did not affect wound closure in mice."
Yes I know it's Xmas Eve, but I'm hangin in an airport and thought I'd post. So, Kirk, in your opinion, theoretically what do you think would happen if pure, unadulterated ECM that was kept moist was placed over a large, full-thickness wound (exposing the subcutaneous tissues)on the face, say 10cm x 12 cm. I mean, this is what zhou is proposing to do on his back....I'm guessing....treat patches of skin at a time. I feel this would lead to a patchwork of skin that doesn't look like surrounding skin. I dunno though.
How would it not look like the surrounding skin if it does what it is purposed to do? Is it not supposed to "grow" what's supposed to be there? Remember I said if this stuff "works like it should work..." I don't understand how a varying "patchwork" would be created as that isn't how the skin naturally occurs or rather that's not what's "supposed to be there."
Yes I know it's Xmas Eve, but I'm hangin in an airport and thought I'd post. So, Kirk, in your opinion, theoretically what do you think would happen if pure, unadulterated ECM that was kept moist was placed over a large, full-thickness wound (exposing the subcutaneous tissues)on the face, say 10cm x 12 cm. I mean, this is what zhou is proposing to do on his back....I'm guessing....treat patches of skin at a time. I feel this would lead to a patchwork of skin that doesn't look like surrounding skin. I dunno though.
When our ECM production is broke or blocked up you can get things like fibrosis in spots etc. Were the body degrades and regenerates the ecm, but were new tissue has not been able to form in the holes, were this induces a and emergency fibrotic response, with the body thinking it has a tissue breakage.
If the ECM was pure, you'd get complete regeneration to what the local tissue is meant to be, just like the way your unscarred skin is regenerated.
The only way it would go wrong is if the pores and micro holes in the ecm were blocked up or affected in some way, which stopped the new tissues from crawling up the ecm.
If anything went wrong it would be down to denaturing. You'd see it by how hard the ecm is being degraded, were you'd get bits of fibrotic encapsulation kind of like spots of scarring in certain places, were the pores and micro holes have been blocked up in a spefific area.
Even though the 12x 10 would work and regenerate, however, excluding some malignancy, I would think it would be unethical to put a 10cmx12 patch on someones face, more so for the reason of psychological trauma whilst the patient is waiting for it to heal, You'd be better of bit by bit.
Even though the 12x 10 would work and regenerate, however, excluding some malignancy, I would think it would be unethical to put a 10cmx12 patch on someones face, more so for the reason of psychological trauma whilst the patient is waiting for it to heal, You'd be better of bit by bit.
"excluding some malignancy".... that's scary. Could you elaborate?
Even though the 12x 10 would work and regenerate, however, excluding some malignancy, I would think it would be unethical to put a 10cmx12 patch on someones face, more so for the reason of psychological trauma whilst the patient is waiting for it to heal, You'd be better of bit by bit.
"excluding some malignancy".... that's scary. Could you elaborate?
Scary? I'm talking about if someone had say a melonoma, then IMO you could do a 10x12cm on a face, basic common sense. I mean acne is not immediately life threatening, though it is still life threatening in a quality of life way sense.
IMO if a patient, with acne got a 10x12 on his or her face they would have a psychological rollercoaster ride full of knee jerk reactions, over the months. Example, you only have to see the knee jerks of the 1st december acell picture by posters on this site and then compare that image to the images on the 19th when you see they are two different pictures. One looks like it has failed and the later one looks like it could be on its way to complete regeneration, provided it has not been affected by the fibrin.
On the Dec 1 images some had given up on Acell, yet on the 19th the image was completely different.
Imagine the rollercoaster of emotions from the visuals you see on the 1st compared to the 19th and on and on etc?
At one stage you'd see a bad scar (1st) and at another (19th) you'd be confident it will come out well... Is that ethical to put a patient through that with a 12x10 just to get a regeneration? Why not do it in two or three stages?
IMO you'd need maybe 5x5 or less at most, and that is my subjective view. Some may so more some less.
Whoa... I just realized that 10cm is almost 4 inches. (sorry I don't deal with metric system too much and never bothered to look it up when you said it -_-) But yeah, that's WAY bigger than what I am talking about anyway. A 4x4 square would be huge. 2x2 was closer to what i was thinking lol.
The idea of removing a large patch is scary. But no one will do this before he's 100% sure that this medicine works. Few pictures from Acell on dr. jhonez are surely not enough. But when the patients see that the medicine really works and can prove the results with different patients, then i won't be scared at all.
I hope that some doctor will try Acell again using the methods which the members here mentioned. So atleast we can know if this thing works or not.
The idea of removing a large patch is scary. But no one will do this before he's 100% sure that this medicine works. Few pictures from Acell on dr. jhonez are surely not enough. But when the patients see that the medicine really works and can prove the results with different patients, then i won't be scared at all.
I hope that some doctor will try Acell again using the methods which the members here mentioned. So atleast we can know if this thing works or not.
Manning from Acell mentioned to me a few weeks ago that they will be posting results on their site from other physicians who have had success using their ECM material.
The idea of removing a large patch is scary. But no one will do this before he's 100% sure that this medicine works. Few pictures from Acell on dr. jhonez are surely not enough. But when the patients see that the medicine really works and can prove the results with different patients, then i won't be scared at all.
I hope that some doctor will try Acell again using the methods which the members here mentioned. So atleast we can know if this thing works or not.
Manning from Acell mentioned to me a few weeks ago that they will be posting results on their site from other physicians who have had success using their ECM material.
That sould be very interesting. Just checked and there is nothing yet though.
A new PDF from Acell?
http://www.acell.com/Wound%20Care%20Produc...age_Dec2008.pdf
First time I've seen it
The photos are to blurry.
But I'm annoyed at how fibrin has got into the wound I'm sure I can see fibrotic encapsulation of the right hand side of the scar that had the worst problem with scabbing (look at dec 1 photos). I'm annoyed as this may alter perception of us and we may stop pursuing looking onto something that IMO will work.
It should never have scabbed, period. My thinking is the scabbing either cross-linked the ecm, or is a symptom of something being cross linked. And when you get crosslinking, denaturing, to close micro pores up, you get fibrotic encapsulation.
Also if it scars because of any denaturing, IMO you will NOT get any hair where scar has been encapsulated, NEVER on any animal or mammal. Fibrosis encapsulation fills the place were the follicle will be.
For instance just look at what happens to people with serious epidermolysa bullosa (which is a problem with ECM turn over, the pores in the ECM are blocked up or enough ECM is not created, which produces scar) they rarely produce hair follicles. Look at people with acne, it can affect beard growth. Their hair growth is sparse.
Simply if you want hair on any ECM you have to stop any DENATURING to stop any chance of fibrosis encapsulation.
A bit to add into any future protocol:
If this one scars (the first demonstration by Dr Jones).
And we start a newer one as a proof of concept, the demonstration must be stopped if there is any sign of scab, period it is a sign the seal has been broken and invalidates everything. We must stop it and revise again. there is no point in going on as the fibrin will close the pores up.
Always remember this stuff that when not cross linked has regenerated sexual organs, bladders, finger tips etc.
Do not knee jerk here.
And when it is crosslinked it brings about scarring.
The photos are to blurry.
But I'm annoyed at how fibrin has got into the wound I'm sure I can see fibrotic encapsulation of the right hand side of the scar that had the worst problem with scabbing (look at dec 1 photos). I'm annoyed as this may alter perception of us and we may stop pursuing looking onto something that IMO will work.
It should never have scabbed, period. My thinking is the scabbing either cross-linked the ecm, or is a symptom of something being cross linked. And when you get crosslinking, denaturing, to close micro pores up, you get fibrotic encapsulation.
Also if it scars because of any denaturing, IMO you will NOT get any hair where scar has been encapsulated, NEVER on any animal or mammal. Fibrosis encapsulation fills the place were the follicle will be.
For instance just look at what happens to people with serious epidermolysa bullosa (which is a problem with ECM turn over, the pores in the ECM are blocked up or enough ECM is not created, which produces scar) they rarely produce hair follicles. Look at people with acne, it can affect beard growth. Their hair growth is sparse.
Simply if you want hair on any ECM you have to stop any DENATURING to stop any chance of fibrosis encapsulation.
A bit to add into any future protocol:
If this one scars (the first demonstration by Dr Jones).
And we start a newer one as a proof of concept, the demonstration must be stopped if there is any sign of scab, period it is a sign the seal has been broken and invalidates everything. We must stop it and revise again. there is no point in going on as the fibrin will close the pores up.
Always remember this stuff that when not cross linked has regenerated sexual organs, bladders, finger tips etc.
Do not knee jerk here.
And when it is crosslinked it brings about scarring.
For a relatively small scar, say 1 inch or so, would it even be possible to use an ECM scaffold or would applying Acell into and over the excision site be most practical?
The photos are to blurry.
But I'm annoyed at how fibrin has got into the wound I'm sure I can see fibrotic encapsulation of the right hand side of the scar that had the worst problem with scabbing (look at dec 1 photos). I'm annoyed as this may alter perception of us and we may stop pursuing looking onto something that IMO will work.
It should never have scabbed, period. My thinking is the scabbing either cross-linked the ecm, or is a symptom of something being cross linked. And when you get crosslinking, denaturing, to close micro pores up, you get fibrotic encapsulation.
Also if it scars because of any denaturing, IMO you will NOT get any hair where scar has been encapsulated, NEVER on any animal or mammal. Fibrosis encapsulation fills the place were the follicle will be.
For instance just look at what happens to people with serious epidermolysa bullosa (which is a problem with ECM turn over, the pores in the ECM are blocked up or enough ECM is not created, which produces scar) they rarely produce hair follicles. Look at people with acne, it can affect beard growth. Their hair growth is sparse.
Simply if you want hair on any ECM you have to stop any DENATURING to stop any chance of fibrosis encapsulation.
A bit to add into any future protocol:
If this one scars (the first demonstration by Dr Jones).
And we start a newer one as a proof of concept, the demonstration must be stopped if there is any sign of scab, period it is a sign the seal has been broken and invalidates everything. We must stop it and revise again. there is no point in going on as the fibrin will close the pores up.
Always remember this stuff that when not cross linked has regenerated sexual organs, bladders, finger tips etc.
Do not knee jerk here.
And when it is crosslinked it brings about scarring.
For a relatively small scar, say 1 inch or so, would it even be possible to use an ECM scaffold or would applying Acell into and over the excision site be most practical?
Ask Acell, but my thinking is maybe similar to yours(?), 1 inch would fit a 1inch sheet of acell, were you could maybe apply powder, etc.
I think because the scar had that big black blood scab on it made it impossible for the bold guy to recovery right with the acell. if that scar was not sealed with that scab it would of maybe made a big difference. i bet he was applying acell on the top of that scab and it was getting deep into the wound to heal. I looked at the pictures of the animals and i see that the wounds dont have huge scabs blocking the acell.
Ive also been reading that useing acell on some animals it healed it but left a little scar, i think it was because the forumed a scab and it stop the acell from getting into it.
Idk its just a idea. if its true that a man regrew a finger then this will become some big in the future, just because this isnt going well with dr jones doesnt mean that its over.
also cats and humans are both mammals. both of us gets scars. the cat was cured. just think about us.
i also wonder why the picture on dec 19 look so good, i was thinking this would work, but then today it look like it got worsed. was it the lighting that made it look so bad?
also want would of happened if we cut someone head open like the bold guy and dont do anything to it. would it heal like the way it did or would it be indent as hell. I think that if you did that you would need a skin graft because that cut would never healed. I think someone on here should search for a picture of a guy loseing a big chunk of skin and not doing shit to it. then we could compare.
another thing i was reading a bold thread kinda like us on acne.org and there all excited about this shit too for there bold heads. one of the guy email the company acell and they said that this summer is when its going to be here for humans. When its out of humans i think more research will be done and more answers will be solved.
another thing lol. i was watching a video and they say this regerenative medicine is going to be big in are time. just like penicin was big in war 2. i also heard the army is giving this stuff a try on a dude in texas to regrow a finger, they are giving 250 million into the research.
on nov 7 the cut is bloody hard as hell. looks like i would want to pick it off.
wet and good, looks amazing. this dog is on his way. you can see the new skin grow.
sorry i cant add the links, i dont know how. but yea go on dr jones site and then go on the acell vet set to look at the pictures.