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Am i the only one who thinks the hair regrowth just looks like hair surrounding the wound which was shaved before hand?
No, Lamarr, you aren't the only one. Hair is absolutely NOT growing at the wound edges. It's totally irresponsible (bordering on unethical) of Dr. Jones to write in his blog that he surmises that HAIR is growing at the wound edges when they are clearly mature hairs that were there before the experiment. They are too long to be coming from new follicles. The wound is contracting, which is why everything is being brought closer together. The likelihood that Acell can regrow hair is very low. There is no proof - only photos on their website of animals regrowing fur over healed wounds. Animals have been shown to regrow fur over a healed wound site without the help of ANY regenerative materials like Acell. Humans....not so much.
My advice would be to chill out and stop speculating. We'll know when it's fully healed. Even then, we really won't know what the average aesthetic results will be until Acell is tried several more times and we get to see a variety of outcomes.
You have pulled that out of thin air.
If you follow the logic regarding ECM, ECM that is not denatured (denatured ecm has a response that is fibrotic, >>>> I'm sure hairloss happens due to a fibrotic respose in the scalp), you will see this stuff that makes up 30% of your body, this stuff that if it goes wrong through denaturing and it is cross linked it then brings fibrosis to your body, this stuff that when in short supply brings serious problems to your body, is central to regeneration. This stuff regenerates every local tissue including hair on the scalp.
More about MEBO.
http://www.etrs.org/bulletin11_1/section7.htm
I have read the two articles about MEBO. It was shown to have a better scar quality and MEBO fastened healing time from 13 days to 9 days for 0.012-inch thick partial thickness skin graft donor site. 90% had excellent scars compared with 40% for the Tegaderm-treated group. 0% had poor scars compared with 10% for the Tegaderm-treated group.[1]
[1]Scar Quality and Physiologic Barrier Function Restoration After Moist and Moist-Exposed Dressings of Partial-Thickness Wounds
Bishara S. Atiyeh, MD, FACS, * Kusai A. El-MUSA, MD, * and Ruwayda Dham, PhD a
* Division of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, American University of Beirut Medical Center, Beirut, Lebanon, and a Drug Research Center, Dubai, United Arab of Emirates
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal...893476/abstract
I was just wondering if anyone has heard anything about the scar revision that Dr Omar (?) did with Acell. I remember reading something about Mike Manning saying the most recent pics had too much glare, but looked like there was only a thin white scar.
Also, interestingly, I just had a look at the FDA trial site for that army burns project that was using Acell but was canned. The site was updated Nov 28 08, it now says they have changed to a new product, couldn't see which, but I'm curious to know if there is something more promising out there.
^ why do you think that Juvista won't work?and yeah i agree that acell must be tried on a facial scar also
Didnt they already say that the scars cant be 3cm within each other? Do you have acne scars that wide apart? Plus, we have seen pics of juvista treated scars, it really isnt that impressive at all.
Didnt they already say that the scars cant be 3cm within each other?
Which product are you referring to? And Why can't scars be within 3 cm of each other?
I think he is referring to a clinical trial i posted a few pages back about using Juvista for scar revision (the first time to my knowledge that revision is what is being tested instead of scar reduction). It wasn't that it only works if your scars are at least 3 cm apart, it was just the inclusion criteria for those wanting to be involved in the trial.
I've just emailed the principal investigator for that terminated army burns study asking what was wrong with Acell and what product he has switched to. Hope he gets back to me!
Very good ID, hopefully they will get back to you. Hopefully it isn't classified.
I wouldn't have this dissuade us one way or the other really. What works for burn revision might not necessarily work for scar revision and what works for scar revision might not necessarily work for burn revision. Although they share a similar pathway there are still very two different monsters.
Dr Jones has posted another image...
www.drrobertjones.com/acell.html
Just thought I'd link you all to it.
Time is needed, you cant see the final result yet, but so far it looks to be progressing towards regeneration.
Looks pretty impressive, there is hair growth right at the very edge, but I'm not sure if that means anything. Also, on the 2nd image, if you zoom in on the far right of the wound it looks a little bit like a scar, but maybe it's still healing.
Regardless of whether this wound heals with or without scar tissue, there is going to be a reddish/purplish hue to the healed area for some time. This is due to increased blood supply in the area as it heals and remodels. Depending on your skin type, even scars, on most occasions, fade and become more pale.
Also, the hair growth at the edge is not new hair. They are too long and thick to be brand new hairs.
Regardless of whether this wound heals with or without scar tissue, there is going to be a reddish/purplish hue to the healed area for some time.
At what point, hypothetically speaking, do you think the scab would heal and it would just be discoloration that you could cover up with makeup? Because even if this is successful, nearly noone has months of downtime off to take off just to heal.
At what point, hypothetically speaking, do you think the scab would heal and it would just be discoloration that you could cover up with makeup? Because even if this is successful, nearly noone has months of downtime off to take off just to heal.
You gotta remember. You are basically creating a full surface laceration (in this case) and you will have to wait for it to heal no matter what. So it comes down to how bad you want it. Are you willing to sacrifice looks for a bit to have it pay off in the long run? (assuming this technique works of course)
of course i don't know definitively, but if the procedure is if i imagine, they could perform a simple punch excision and apply acell. the size of the wound would be comparable to a acne cyst, so if you do a few spots at a time, you could hypothetically have zero downtime if you don't mind a few open wounds on you face.
At what point, hypothetically speaking, do you think the scab would heal and it would just be discoloration that you could cover up with makeup? Because even if this is successful, nearly noone has months of downtime off to take off just to heal.
You gotta remember. You are basically creating a full surface laceration (in this case) and you will have to wait for it to heal no matter what. So it comes down to how bad you want it. Are you willing to sacrifice looks for a bit to have it pay off in the long run? (assuming this technique works of course)
My biggest worry is early on in how it scabbed over. Also according to Willy on that hairsite site, the people at Acell claim that it should not do that.
My worry is that scabbing is a sign of a denatured ECM.
My biggest worry is early on in how it scabbed over. Also according to Willy on that hairsite site, the people at Acell claim that it should not do that.
My worry is that scabbing is a sign of a denatured ECM.
I know what you mean, Kirk. The wound should have been kept moist the ENTIRE time. This comes from the acell website FAQ section:
Q. Should I debride a wound after treatment with the ACell Veta product?
A. No. Carefully remove the dressing trying not to disturb the new cell growth underneath. Then place the new sheet of the ACell Veta material on top. Dress with saline-soaked gauze and Vaseline gauze and then a Vet-wrap dressing. Gentle rinsing with saline can be used to remove excess exudate.
Q. How often should I add a new ACell Veta sheet to a wound?
A. A new dressing of saline soaked gauze should be applied 3-4 days after the initial treatment, taking care not to remove any of the ACell Veta material with the original dressing. The dressing should be changed again in another 4-5 days with consideration given for a second application of ACell Veta material. If the healing of the wound is progressing simply re-dress with saline soaked gauze and continue this procedure every 4-5 days. A second application of ACell Veta material should be considered 2-3 weeks following the initial treatment, if not applied during a previous change of dressing.
In a few of the case studies, they also talk about keeping the animals' wounds covered the entire time with a saline-soaked gauze covered by another peice of vaseline-soaked gauze to keep everything moist.
Didnt they already say that the scars cant be 3cm within each other?
Which product are you referring to? And Why can't scars be within 3 cm of each other?
juvista. They said it in their trials. So juvista is a no no. And why cant wound used on acell scab? Isnt that the way a wound heals?
My biggest worry is early on in how it scabbed over. Also according to Willy on that hairsite site, the people at Acell claim that it should not do that.
My worry is that scabbing is a sign of a denatured ECM.
I know what you mean, Kirk. The wound should have been kept moist the ENTIRE time. This comes from the acell website FAQ section:
Q. Should I debride a wound after treatment with the ACell Veta product?
A. No. Carefully remove the dressing trying not to disturb the new cell growth underneath. Then place the new sheet of the ACell Veta material on top. Dress with saline-soaked gauze and Vaseline gauze and then a Vet-wrap dressing. Gentle rinsing with saline can be used to remove excess exudate.
Q. How often should I add a new ACell Veta sheet to a wound?
A. A new dressing of saline soaked gauze should be applied 3-4 days after the initial treatment, taking care not to remove any of the ACell Veta material with the original dressing. The dressing should be changed again in another 4-5 days with consideration given for a second application of ACell Veta material. If the healing of the wound is progressing simply re-dress with saline soaked gauze and continue this procedure every 4-5 days. A second application of ACell Veta material should be considered 2-3 weeks following the initial treatment, if not applied during a previous change of dressing.
In a few of the case studies, they also talk about keeping the animals' wounds covered the entire time with a saline-soaked gauze covered by another peice of vaseline-soaked gauze to keep everything moist.
I was thinking that the wound was looking like it was making very hard work of the ecm, which to me suggests denaturing or cross linking of the material which brings a fibrotic response hitting cell shape, migration, proliferation, differentiation, morphogenesis etc. My worry is if it was denatured then this demonstrationmight hit acell with knee jerk reactions.
My biggest worry is early on in how it scabbed over. Also according to Willy on that hairsite site, the people at Acell claim that it should not do that.
My worry is that scabbing is a sign of a denatured ECM.
I know what you mean, Kirk. The wound should have been kept moist the ENTIRE time. This comes from the acell website FAQ section:
Q. Should I debride a wound after treatment with the ACell Veta product?
A. No. Carefully remove the dressing trying not to disturb the new cell growth underneath. Then place the new sheet of the ACell Veta material on top. Dress with saline-soaked gauze and Vaseline gauze and then a Vet-wrap dressing. Gentle rinsing with saline can be used to remove excess exudate.
Q. How often should I add a new ACell Veta sheet to a wound?
A. A new dressing of saline soaked gauze should be applied 3-4 days after the initial treatment, taking care not to remove any of the ACell Veta material with the original dressing. The dressing should be changed again in another 4-5 days with consideration given for a second application of ACell Veta material. If the healing of the wound is progressing simply re-dress with saline soaked gauze and continue this procedure every 4-5 days. A second application of ACell Veta material should be considered 2-3 weeks following the initial treatment, if not applied during a previous change of dressing.
In a few of the case studies, they also talk about keeping the animals' wounds covered the entire time with a saline-soaked gauze covered by another peice of vaseline-soaked gauze to keep everything moist.
I was thinking that the wound was looking like it was making very hard work of the ecm, which to me suggests denaturing or cross linking of the material which brings a fibrotic response hitting cell shape, migration, proliferation, differentiation, morphogenesis etc. My worry is if it was denatured then this demonstrationmight hit acell with knee jerk reactions.
Kirk, could you please call Manning and ask him about this?
Anyone can call Acell. Call (410) 715-4511 and ask for Mike Manning. Say you are just an individual not associated with a business and you have a question. He'll kindly tell you to go ahead and ask it. Ask away. He's gotten tons of calls from people like you and me and he's very kind and helpful.
In this case, of course, I can understand why you'd want Kirk to call, as he seems to be the most educated on ECM on this forum.
I was thinking that the wound was looking like it was making very hard work of the ecm, which to me suggests denaturing or cross linking of the material which brings a fibrotic response hitting cell shape, migration, proliferation, differentiation, morphogenesis etc. My worry is if it was denatured then this demonstrationmight hit acell with knee jerk reactions.
Kirk, I'm not sure what you mean by "if it was denatured then this demonstration might hit acell with knee jerk reactions."..... ?
I think using botox to paralyze surrounding muscles during the healing phase would be very smart:
http://www.articlesbase.com/non-fiction-ar...cars-82650.html
So, if I were to do Acell, my protocol (based on my knowledge so far) would be:
1.) Before ablating or excising the scarred area, treat it with botox, so all the muscles are totally frozen, thus preventing any wound tension. Wound tension is a big factor in scarring. This may not be feasible if you can't take a couple months off work, but this is my IDEAL scenario that I think would deliver the best healing.
2.) Keep the wound covered with Acell and *totally moist* throughout the entire healing process. It's my opinion that also having a moist wound lessens wound tension, as I imagine that the hard shell of a scab can pull on surrounding tissues and it can tear off.
3.) Apply Acell as often as possible until the wound is totally regenerated. I don't think you could do overkill when it comes to healing your face!
4.) Use a hand-held cold laser (cold laser are very gentle and emit no heat and do not cut tissues). Low Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) has even been used in conjunction with Acell ( http://www.innovations-report.de/html/beri...icht-35098.html )
LLLT has not only been shown to remodel existing scar tissue into normal tissues (this unfortunately doesn't mean filling in depressed scars, but means that the shiny, less flexible scar tissue can slowly over time be converted into more flexible, more organized tissues resembling normal tissue) but has also been shown to aid remarkably in the healing process and prevent scarring from happening.
5.) Perhaps go on a major cleanse and raw-foods diet for 6 months prior as well as making sure you're taking all the right pure, pharmaceutical grade vitamins to assist your body as much as possible in the healing process. I would say absolutely no alcohol, smoking, or junk food before during and 4-5 months after the treatment.
So this would be my formula so far:
botox + constant moist coverage over wound + frequent, repeated Acell applications + daily LLLT treatments + assist your immune system with purifying your system and taking all the right vitamins and nutrients
It's just my opinion. That's all it is. I'm just sharing my opinion with you guys...but I do think it's a smart protocol! : )