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2 hours ago, Scarcure said:Maybe , you're right you'd of have to make an incision to the tissue , but there could be such advancements in medical science where vaccines could be possible
A vaccine healing already occured scar isn't going to be possible at all lol.
You would have to excise the tissue and create an environment suitable for scarless healing (something like a jell-o kind of that a fetus has.)
Or turn off the gene that detects mechanical stress in skin, so that regeneration takes place which would be a slower process than regular healing but would restore normal skin entirely.
Have you guys heard of James Godwin?
Someone emailed Dr. Chen who is the co-author of the verteporfin study and lead author of the faki + hydrogel study!
So this confirms that excision + verteporfin should work right? Since the excision line is thin, it doesn't matter if hair/gland reconstruction isn't 100% in the newly formed tissue -- as long as it *looks* like the unwounded skin (which Dr. Chen says it will), then we're golden.
If this works, subcision + excision should be enough to get rid of scars!!!
Just recently found out about this whole scarless healing thing and verteporfin. I'm new to this forum and have been dealing with acne scars since a teenager. This would be an absolute dream come true if this all pans out to restore normal non-indented, smooth skin.
6 hours ago, k95 said:So this confirms that excision + verteporfin should work right? Since the excision line is thin, it doesn't matter if hair/gland reconstruction isn't 100% in the newly formed tissue -- as long as it *looks* like the unwounded skin (which Dr. Chen says it will), then we're golden.
If this works, subcision + excision should be enough to get rid of scars!!!
At the moment excision already works, if you have only have one or two scars.
The main issue at the moment is if you have multiple scars or the scars cover a large area that the tension on your skin is too great to have successful excisions. Verteporfin won't be that useful if the doctor has to stitch these wounds back up since you're not manufacturing more skin to excise. The skin tension remains.
For this to work ideally you'd need to excise the scar tissue and then be able to bandage the wound but not need to stitch it up while it heals. This would leave you with the same amount of tissue.
@Tom_MasonSkin tolerates some amount of stretching though, right? Tissue expansion is a relatively common procedure, e.g. before mastectomy reconstruction to generate more skin for the implants.
I would disagree that excision already works -- there are a lot of people on this forum with bad excision results (maybe they had a bad surgeon, I don't know). IIUC this would take the risk out of excision and allow it to be done on larger scars.
To be more specific, my vision is that over several sessions, scars -- regardless of size -- are excised + sutured + injected with verteporfin. That way, the skin is never stretched so taut that the wound won't closeand the area of skin that needs to be regenerated with verteporfin is as small as possible.
Your idea also seems possible, but I'm hesitant to rely on verteporfin alone bc as Dr. Chen writes, the regeneration of sebaceous glands and hair follicles isn't 100%.
@Tom_Mason @k95 I have had several sessions of Silicone Microdroplet by Dr. Barry Resnik in Miami to treat my acne scars. I have improved very much but still not completely satisfied with my facial skin. That was after trying a bad C02 fractional laser which despite good intentions, further pushed my indentations and left me with bigger holes. Do you think if this whole new method with verteporfin comes to fruition, this can be done over by Silicone injected facial skin?
What does he mean when he says hair/gland isnt 100 %? Is it 90, 50 or 20 %?
If it makes the skin look 100 % (which he says), I am sure people will start using it.
It is still 100 times better than our options today.
@k95I could have been lucky with my excisions, in any case it worked for me replacing 2 of my scars with fine lines the only issue being skin tightness. If I were to have smaller scars near these revised they would split under tension. So in theory surgeons could start using tissue expanders however if the skin appears unwounded this would be totally unnecessary and I can only imagine most people would hate having a tissue expander placed in their face for however many weeks/months to achieve extra skin.
What is happening with repeated excision and stitching brings a new issue of tension in the face while verteporfin is stating it can regenerate to look like normal skin. Rather than create an additional issue to have excision and lose that skin tissue permanently why not just have the scar excised to then heal and look like normal skin?
8 hours ago, scarredspartan said:@Tom_Mason @k95 I have had several sessions of Silicone Microdroplet by Dr. Barry Resnik in Miami to treat my acne scars. I have improved very much but still not completely satisfied with my facial skin. That was after trying a bad C02 fractional laser which despite good intentions, further pushed my indentations and left me with bigger holes. Do you think if this whole new method with verteporfin comes to fruition, this can be done over by Silicone injected facial skin?
If verteporfin or the faki inhibitors can work on humans as shownin mice/pigs, then they can just take the silicone out whenexcising the scar. Im guessing the silicone was injected right beneath the acne scar; therefore, they can take it out.
Just wanted to add that Stretching the skin is not ideal. The stretched skin is thinner, less vascularized, and it might have a wrinkled or puckered look. so instead of doing this, it would be better to regenerate the skin that should be there. I dunno if verteporfin can do this though. It sounds like they plan on stitching the wound together still, so you Would still have a missing area of skin.
3 hours ago, alyssum said:Just wanted to add that Stretching the skin is not ideal. The stretched skin is thinner, less vascularized, and it might have a wrinkled or puckered look. so instead of doing this, it would be better to regenerate the skin that should be there. I dunno if verteporfin can do this though. It sounds like they plan on stitching the wound together still, so you Would still have a missing area of skin.
Agreed, excision and stitching the wound closed is not really regeneration due to tissue removal.
When you said "it sounds like they plan on stitching the wound together still" where did you get that info from? I can't find it.
New poster here... but i've been following the forum for quite some time. Seems like we have some hope!
Just one question though... what did Dr.Chen mean in her second point? She seems to be saying that the scar tissue architectures would stay present but under what conditions?
Was the emailer asking ifverteporfin could erase scars without performing excision?
In her concluding lines, Dr.Chen says thatverteporfin promotes regeneration when "scar tissue has not yet been formed".... does this count previous scars that have excised, is that equal to a "fresh wound" or does the skin have some sort or memory/architecture that won't allow it to work?
@c1s123Dr. Chen is just saying that verteporfin isn't going to dissolve existing scars. Which we knew anyway. Implying the need to excise an existing scar if we want regeneration.
On 12/19/2021 at 9:34 PM, gueste said:Someone emailed Dr. Chen who is the co-author of the verteporfin study and lead author of the faki + hydrogel study!
We're getting closer , though am looking forward to the hair regeneration also.
On 12/21/2021 at 4:36 PM, Tom_Mason said:Agreed, excision and stitching the wound closed is not really regeneration due to tissue removal.
When you said "it sounds like they plan on stitching the wound together still" where did you get that info from? I can't find it.
Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but I got it from here: https://www.statnews.com/2021/04/22/scientists-unlock-key-to-scar-free-skin-healing/
"Longaker envisions a time when doctors will be able to inject a bit of verteporfin around a laceration or incision as they stitch it up, encouraging the wound to repair itself slowly, carefully, and completely. Thats scar prevention."
>"Longaker envisions a time when doctors will be able to inject a bit of verteporfin around a laceration or incision as they stitch it up, encouraging the wound to repair itself slowly, carefully, and completely. Thats scar prevention."
Exactly. Given the risk of infection and the additional time it takes to heal with verteporfin, I doubt any doctor will be willing to let you walk away with an open wound on your face.
Doesn't the depth of the incision depend on the location also ? i mean if you was trying to regenerate eyelid scarring they are very thin , which means you'd essentially have the incision depth of the eyelid no more than a scratch
However if the scar was on the cheek of the face then i'd assume the incision would be deeper.
8 hours ago, alyssum said:Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but I got it from here: https://www.statnews.com/2021/04/22/scientists-unlock-key-to-scar-free-skin-healing/
"Longaker envisions a time when doctors will be able to inject a bit of verteporfin around a laceration or incision as they stitch it up, encouraging the wound to repair itself slowly, carefully, and completely. Thats scar prevention."
It's inappropriate to use news articles as supporting details. In the papers, the tissue regenerated, on larger wounds. It will be of no use if verteporfin could only prevent a line scar.
7 hours ago, k95 said:>"Longaker envisions a time when doctors will be able to inject a bit of verteporfin around a laceration or incision as they stitch it up, encouraging the wound to repair itself slowly, carefully, and completely. Thats scar prevention."
Exactly. Given the risk of infection and the additional time it takes to heal with verteporfin, I doubt any doctor will be willing to let you walk away with an open wound on your face.
I don't think the clinical practice would leave a wound open, without any cover
6 hours ago, Scarcure said:Doesn't the depth of the incision depend on the location also ? i mean if you was trying to regenerate eyelid scarring they are very thin , which means you'd essentially have the incision depth of the eyelid no more than a scratch
However if the scar was on the cheek of the face then i'd assume the incision would be deeper.
The thickness of skin varies, anyway
Yeah but it doesn't negate what Longaker said about the wound getting stitched up after. I doubt the writer would just make that up..? I also doubt the clinic will let you leave with an open wound. A bandage would not prevent infection. They mentioned they plan to test verteporfin on cleft lip patients. I don't know for sure but I imagine the patients will be stitched up rather than sent home with a gash on their face.