Acne.org Products
(I'm pinging the three of you since you asked a similar question, and @Armanilko PM'd me, asking me to answer the "how does it work" question in details)
I'm simply repeting what I've mentioned before:
ELAPR002 (elastagen's product 002) is not a surgical tool in the sense that it's not a heavy surgical intervention, and it's not really a filler, as dermal fillers are temporary: it's a skin implant (which is exactly what they call it https://www.hra.nhs.uk/planning-and-improving-research/application-summaries/research-summaries/elapr002-implant-safety-and-efficacy-v1/)
Elastin has never been synthethized before: it's an essential component of the skin (with collagen) that the body just can't reproduce after it's been lost, and it's how the skin manages to stretch so much. So basically Elastagen is the only company in the world who has access to elastin production (which kinda explains why allergan got them for hundreds of millions of dollars).
You kinda have to see their tropelastin-based product as a "liquid implant" that serves to fill void-like lesions, which is exactly why it's ideal for atrophic scars (stretch marks for example). That's also why they mention stuff like depression volume reduction: the new healthy skin fills atrophic lesions up to a certain percentage, so it's not tightening it or anything, it's literally using an implant to replace the void with healthy skin which can grow hair follicles, sweat yada yada yada...
Some of you might have heard of METRO () well that's the same idea.
I agree with what Armanilko said also: if they're ready to publish scientific papers to show us the results, it means they're happy with it, so the next months are going to be seriously interesting (I personally can't wait for that).
One thing that is important to note though, is that these drafts will ONLY be about stretch marks and acne scars. Why? Because they're, by nature, atrophic scars, lesions, "void". That's what the product can fix.
I have no idea when they'll create a product to fix hypertrophic scars and keloid scars (aka the most severe scarring most of the time), but they said they intended to do so, although it would tak more research as you can't really use a "filling implant" to fix a raised scar. Makes sense, doesn't it?
So yeah, when it comes to elastagen's product: don't see it as a filler. It's an implant, a dermis-repairing implant, and if you want to get rid of stretch marks or acne scars, you should be very excited overall.
nb: @Scarlessfuture I think elastagen nicknamed the regeneration process "elastatherapy" btw. Google it they mention some interesting things about it.
@lehranMy dermatologist told me that elastagen could very well be a revolution for striae distensae too, and I have lots of them everywhere unfortunately, so I'm really hopeful. Fingers crossed. Thank you for the explanation in any case, although I've been following discussions here for a couple months
-As far as striae distensae (stretch marks) go, I think we're indeed about to see the first real working treatment come out, which is honestly about time. When it comes to atrophic scars in general it's also a breakthrough for sure, but It's going to depend on the type of scarring, as scars are often very different compared to each other (even amongst the same type of scars, aka atrophic in this case). This should definitely make a lot of noise if the results from the drafts are there (which I believe they are, based on the questions several of us have been asking to their staff, and the answers we got too).
-No idea how much it's gonna cost: prob very expensive at first (thousands of dollars imo) as it will be a new biotech product, and then cheaper very quickly. Might also depend on the type of treatment: striae distensae affect 70-80% of people (although to very varying degrees), so the cheaper it is, the more accessible it will be, and that's honestly what you want to achieve.
70-80% improvement range regard stretch marks in MY opinion is something that can be considered a solution already, specially if it comes to resolve the major problem with striae which is the depression/elasticity of the skin
the rest can be adressed with lasers or even tattoing over it if it comes to texture/color
1 hour ago, De Rerum Natura said:70-80% improvement range regard stretch marks in MY opinion is something that can be considered a solution already, specially if it comes to resolve the major problem with striae which is the depression/elasticity of the skin
the rest can be adressed with lasers or even tattoing over it if it comes to texture/color
Nothing works for stretch marks right now, literally nothing. The best thing you can get is skin tightening and that's it, plus it's a temporary measure. Nothing works because they're localized in the dermis, pure and simple, and because the body doesn't know how to repair these lesions. I do agree that you can address their color with vascular lasers however, which is at least an option.
As far as improvement goes, what I like with elastagen is how they're adressing depression volume: it's not about making the stretch marks tighter, it's literally about filling them with proper healthy skin, which essentially fixes the problem visually speaking.
If the proof of concept of elastagen works as intended, you're not going to use lasers/fractional rf/carboxytherapy/micro-needling anymore for stretch marks, as they would suddenly become completely obsolete in that regard (but you might still have to use vascular lasers for those that aren't quite white yet). Meaning it is essentially a breakthrough that's going to completely change the rules
8 minutes ago, lehran said:Nothing works for stretch marks right now, literally nothing. The best thing you can get is skin tightening and that's it, plus it's a temporary measure. Nothing works because they're localized in the dermis, pure and simple, and because the body doesn't know how to repair these lesions. I do agree that you can address their color with vascular lasers however, which is at least an option.
As far as improvement goes, what I like with elastagen is how they're adressing depression volume: it's not about making the stretch marks tighter, it's literally about filling them with proper healthy skin, which essentially fixes the problem visually speaking.
If the proof of concept of elastagen works as intended, you're not going to use lasers/fractional rf/carboxytherapy/micro-needling anymore for stretch marks, as they would suddenly become completely obsolete in that regard (but you might still have to use vascular lasers for those that aren't quite white yet). Meaning it is essentially a breakthrough that's going to completely change the rules
we see probably 100% improvement from elastagen
4 hours ago, Scarcure said:How much do you think this could cost if successful ?
Something you probably can't afford because instead of trying to become wealthy, you cry over your scars.
2 hours ago, Didikaxonim said:we see probably 100% improvement from elastagen
I doubt you will see 100% improvement. However, it is something to look forward too for sure.
2 hours ago, lehran said:Nothing works for stretch marks right now, literally nothing. The best thing you can get is skin tightening and that's it, plus it's a temporary measure. Nothing works because they're localized in the dermis, pure and simple, and because the body doesn't know how to repair these lesions. I do agree that you can address their color with vascular lasers however, which is at least an option.
As far as improvement goes, what I like with elastagen is how they're adressing depression volume: it's not about making the stretch marks tighter, it's literally about filling them with proper healthy skin, which essentially fixes the problem visually speaking.
If the proof of concept of elastagen works as intended, you're not going to use lasers/fractional rf/carboxytherapy/micro-needling anymore for stretch marks, as they would suddenly become completely obsolete in that regard (but you might still have to use vascular lasers for those that aren't quite white yet). Meaning it is essentially a breakthrough that's going to completely change the rules
Stretch marks are actually caused by skin tearing deep in the dermis or hypodermis. Elasticin is the protein that holds itall together preventing these tears. Unfortunately, when the skin is stretched to its max, it cannot return back to normal, therefore the body tries to repair the gap. Think of it as steel yielding under extreme stress. The body is pretty good at healing itself, unfortunately nature selected scar tissue as an adequate response. Evolution has decided so.
Stretch marks do evolve over time, fading over the years. I haven't met one single person that doesn't have them. The buttocks are actually very prone to these. Over 95% of humanity has them. Most girls find clever ways to hide them with tanning sprays or applying make up over them. I think we are being a little over dramatic about stretch marks to be honest.
What I would like to see is for something to come out to regenerate skin for burn victims and people who are left with facial craters following severe disease.
3 hours ago, Scarlessfuture said:Something you probably can't afford because instead of trying to become wealthy, you cry over your scars.
I doubt you will see 100% improvement. However, it is something to look forward too for sure.
Stretch marks are actually caused by skin tearing deep in the dermis or hypodermis. Elasticin is the protein that holds itall together preventing these tears. Unfortunately, when the skin is stretched to its max, it cannot return back to normal, therefore the body tries to repair the gap. Think of it as steel yielding under extreme stress. The body is pretty good at healing itself, unfortunately nature selected scar tissue as an adequate response. Evolution has decided so.
Stretch marks do evolve over time, fading over the years. I haven't met one single person that doesn't have them. The buttocks are actually very prone to these. Over 95% of humanity has them. Most girls find clever ways to hide them with tanning sprays or applying make up over them. I think we are being a little over dramatic about stretch marks to be honest.
What I would like to see is for something to come out to regenerate skin for burn victims and people who are left with facial craters following severe disease.
I'm personally not bothered by stretch marks, but everyone has their own priorities and insecurities. My acne scars bug me, but some burn victims would think I have it easy. There seems to be varying degrees of stretch marks too
13 hours ago, Didikaxonim said:we see probably 100% improvement from elastagen
No, you won't, I mentioned a 80-90% improvement before, BUT in terms of depression volume, not in terms of skin tightening: stretch marks won't get tightened or smoothed, they'll be filled up by synthetic skin up by 80-90%. The result will obviously be completely different compared to previous procedures...in a very good way.
11 hours ago, Scarlessfuture said:
Stretch marks are actually caused by skin tearing deep in the dermis or hypodermis. Elasticin is the protein that holds itall together preventing these tears. Unfortunately, when the skin is stretched to its max, it cannot return back to normal, therefore the body tries to repair the gap. Think of it as steel yielding under extreme stress. The body is pretty good at healing itself, unfortunately nature selected scar tissue as an adequate response. Evolution has decided so.
Stretch marks do evolve over time, fading over the years. I haven't met one single person that doesn't have them. The buttocks are actually very prone to these. Over 95% of humanity has them. Most girls find clever ways to hide them with tanning sprays or applying make up over them. I think we are being a little over dramatic about stretch marks to be honest.
What I would like to see is for something to come out to regenerate skin for burn victims and people who are left with facial craters following severe disease.
It occurs in the dermis, not the hypodermis. I do agree with you about everyone having them, but some of us have them literally everywhere due to genetics. They can cause a lot of anxiety depending on people, and it's great that we're getting a treatment for that.
57 minutes ago, lehran said:No, you won't, I mentioned a 80-90% improvement before, BUT in terms of depression volume, not in terms of skin tightening: stretch marks won't get tightened or smoothed, they'll be filled up by synthetic skin up by 80-90%. The result will obviously be completely different compared to previous procedures...in a very good way.
It occurs in the dermis, not the hypodermis. I do agree with you about everyone having them, but some of us have them literally everywhere due to genetics. They can cause a lot of anxiety depending on people, and it's great that we're getting a treatment for that.
Most of the tears happen in the dermis but some do extend into the hypodermis.
The gaps are filled by scar tissue anyway as the body repairs them.Elastogen will not get rid of that scar tissue.
1 minute ago, Scarlessfuture said:Most of the tears happen in the dermis but some do extend into the hypodermis.
The gaps are filled by scar tissue anyway as the body repairs them.Elastogen will not get rid of that scar tissue.
Some scars do extend very very deep, reaching the hypodermis, usually those that cause real disabilities (like the ones that prevent proper movement), that's not the case with stretch marks.
About getting rid of the scar tissue: it's more about fixing it than removing it (you'd have to remove several layers of skin depending on the severity of it), which is possible for striae distensae as they're atrophic scars, but not for hypertrophic scars indeed (at least yet). Stretch marks are simply zones lacking elastin fibers, as the body didn't have enough elastin to allow stretching of the skin.
So no, obviously you won't get rid of the existing marks, you're simply going to add the lacking protein to fill the gap and restore the original look of the skin.
Again, I agree that more severe scarring will definitely be challenging to fix, and that there's a long way to go before this gets adressed (especially concerning the cases you mentioned: hypodermis-localized lesions) but as far as stretch marks go at least, seems like we got a real solution, although it's wiser to wait for the drafts before claiming anything.
1 hour ago, lehran said:No, you won't, I mentioned a 80-90% improvement before, BUT in terms of depression volume, not in terms of skin tightening: stretch marks won't get tightened or smoothed, they'll be filled up by synthetic skin up by 80-90%. The result will obviously be completely different compared to previous procedures...in a very good way.
It occurs in the dermis, not the hypodermis. I do agree with you about everyone having them, but some of us have them literally everywhere due to genetics. They can cause a lot of anxiety depending on people, and it's great that we're getting a treatment for that.
their search is not over yet.the result may be even better
46 minutes ago, lehran said:Some scars do extend very very deep, reaching the hypodermis, usually those that cause real disabilities (like the ones that prevent proper movement), that's not the case with stretch marks.
About getting rid of the scar tissue: it's more about fixing it than removing it (you'd have to remove several layers of skin depending on the severity of it), which is possible for striae distensae as they're atrophic scars, but not for hypertrophic scars indeed (at least yet). Stretch marks are simply zones lacking elastin fibers, as the body didn't have enough elastin to allow stretching of the skin.
So no, obviously you won't get rid of the existing marks, you're simply going to add the lacking protein to fill the gap and restore the original look of the skin.
Again, I agree that more severe scarring will definitely be challenging to fix, and that there's a long way to go before this gets adressed (especially concerning the cases you mentioned: hypodermis-localized lesions) but as far as stretch marks go at least, seems like we got a real solution, although it's wiser to wait for the drafts before claiming anything.
Those are contracture scars and some stretch marks go really deep into the hypodermis, they just don't affect movement because they are not as extensive.
I hardly believe that adding synthetic fibers to promote elasticin production will make the skin look natural. The gap has already been filled by scar tissue. It will simply improve the appearance. By how much? Nobody knows. Renova once made bold statements, but where are they now? Don't put all your faith on this.
27 minutes ago, Scarlessfuture said:Those are contracture scars and some stretch marks go really deep into the hypodermis, they just don't affect movement because they are not as extensive.
I hardly believe that adding synthetic fibers to promote elasticin production will make the skin look natural. The gap has already been filled by scar tissue. It will simply improve the appearance. By how much? Nobody knows. Renova once made bold statements, but where are they now? Don't put all your faith on this.
I/ Nah, they don't. Striae distensae (even when they're being formed, aka striae rubra)NEVER reach the hypodermis, ever, even the very severe ones that were displayed on this forum months ago.
The subcutaneous tissue (or hypodermis) is where fibroblasts and fat tissue are stored. Stretch marks occur because of a lack of elastin and collagen contained in the dermis (in fact, elastin represents something like 3-4% of the overall weight composition of the dermi), they don't exist in the hypodermis. Don't take my word for it, just ask any dermatologist or medical student who's specialized in skin conditions.
II/ The gap hasn't been filled by scar tissue, that's what happens with hypertrophic scars (raised scars). If the gap had been filled, you wouldn't have skin depression, the feeling of having to deal with void lesions. When you touch a stretch mark, you can see that it's not at the same level as the rest of your skin, there's a "void" in the dermis, an area where the proper elements are lacking. In fact (and that's why stretch marks are not classical scars) the depression is created AFTERWARDS: when the striae goes from "rubra" to "alba". So it's actually the opposite compared to traditional scars: the skin doesn't try to fill in the scar, it actually doesn't know how to fill in the striae.
Nobody ever managed to synthethize elastin before. I'm not saying it's going to 100% fix the problem, I'm saying this is going to be a tremendous breakthrough cosmetically speaking, since nothing works for stretch marks right now.
When it comes to the results, we just need to wait for the drafts. If it works as expected, then great, if it doesn't? Fine, back to waiting for something else.
Also you're right about managing our expectations, that's usually what I always do.
nb: I'm not sure I understand why you mention the mucoprotein "elasticin" instead of the "elastin" protein though?
nb2: edited the subcutaneous tissue part
Not trying to be a downer but any breach in skin I know of that isn't sealed by the tissue that was once there is filled with scar tissue.
"Initially livid, after several months the striae become ivory white and firm because of the formation of scar tissue."
Source : https://www.britannica.com/science/stretch-mark
Perhaps the void between the dermis and the scars are filled, who knows. A reason I support microcoring if the theory to concept is viable is such scar tissues are removed and might be filled with tripoelastin, an elastic membrane or just left for biomechanical remodelling to do it's thing and cause skin tightening.
30 minutes ago, David4bay said:Not trying to be a downer but any breach in skin I know of that isn't sealed by the tissue that was once there is filled with scar tissue.
"Initially livid, after several months the striae become ivory white and firm because of the formation of scar tissue."
Source : https://www.britannica.com/science/stretch-mark
Perhaps the void between the dermis and the scars are filled, who knows. A reason I support microcoring if the theory to concept is viable is such scar tissues are removed and might be filled with tripoelastin, an elastic membrane or just left for biomechanical remodelling to do it's thing and cause skin tightening.
Hence why scar remodeling is a thing. What I'm saying is that traditional scars and stretch marks are very different types of scarring, in their histology, as scars occur when there's a real physical lesion (an accident) while stretch marks almost "naturally" occur in most people because of excessive skin stretching (puberty, sport, pregnancy...) or because of corticoid treatments
Stretch marks are NOT depressed when they first form (striae rubra), they end up becoming depressed and like scar tissue once they mature, which is a very different thing when compared to other types of scarring.
That is also why I keep saying that hypetrophic scars are something else entirely (as an example ofc)
22 minutes ago, lehran said:Hence why scar remodeling is a thing. What I'm saying is that traditional scars and stretch marks are very different types of scarring, in their histology, as scars occur when there's a real physical lesion (an accident) while stretch marks almost "naturally" occur in most people because of excessive skin stretching (puberty, sport, pregnancy...) or because of corticoid treatments
Stretch marks are NOT depressed when they first form (striae rubra), they end up becoming depressed and like scar tissue once they mature, which is a very different thing when compared to other types of scarring.
That is also why I keep saying that hypetrophic scars are something else entirely (as an example ofc)
The voids from those tears in the dermis become filled with scar tissue. That's what I highlighted for you to take note on.
So when tripoelastin fills in the depression volume of stretch marks, does the said scar tissue in stretch marks rise up to the surface or are they covered up by tripoelastin?
I hope to see what the results are. A very good product for what it does nonetheless.
1 hour ago, David4bay said:So when tripoelastin fills in the depression volume of stretch marks, does the said scar tissue in stretch marks rise up to the surface or are they covered up by tripoelastin?
The depression is filled up by synthetic skin once elastagenesis (re-creation of elastin fibers) is activated via the insertion of tropoelastin. Supposedly it takes months to work though, and the number of sessions (space by 3-4 weeks according to them) depends on the severity of the case.
Someone asked me for acne scars too, but I'm not sure how it works for this particular skin condition. Maybe it's the same protocol, but I don't know for sure.
This is probably a better explanation in general (although it's very general in this video):
Honestly sounds like a miracle @lehran, I keep wondering if one could erase the shiny appearance of scars by monthly needling and application of tripoelastin to encourage chemotaxis of normal basketweave skin with full appendages.
32 minutes ago, David4bay said:Honestly sounds like a miracle @lehran, I keep wondering if one could erase the shiny appearance of scars by monthly needling and application of tripoelastin to encourage chemotaxis of normal basketweave skin with full appendages.
Unfortunately, nothing out there does that at the moment. With microcoring, small layers of skin are extracted and the wound contracts. Mammals heal by contraction as granulation tissue or scar tissue form within the wound. Since the wound is very small, the body doesn't generate granulation tissue but the extracted tissue is lost forever because it is not regenerated.
1 hour ago, lehran said:The depression is filled up by synthetic skin once elastagenesis (re-creation of elastin fibers) is activated via the insertion of tropoelastin. Supposedly it takes months to work though, and the number of sessions (space by 3-4 weeks according to them) depends on the severity of the case.
Someone asked me for acne scars too, but I'm not sure how it works for this particular skin condition. Maybe it's the same protocol, but I don't know for sure.
This is probably a better explanation in general (although it's very general in this video):
It will do nothing for atrophic scars left from acne. The scar tissue will remain and this synthetic skin will camouflage the scar tissue at best. I don't see doing much for stretch marks but it could be an improvement to existing treatments.
4 minutes ago, Scarlessfuture said:It will do nothing for atrophic scars left from acne. The scar tissue will remain and this synthetic skin will camouflage the scar tissue at best. I don't see doing much for stretch marks but it could be an improvement to existing treatments.
I strongly disagree (but hey that's just me ^^ ) based on what I found regarding stretch marks, but it's all conjecture at this point honestly. All we know is that drafts are coming Q4 this year, we'll see what's what at that point.
If it ends up being disappointing? Hey, back to just living our lives like before, scars and stretch marks are a normal part of life, it's not the end of the world. It would simply be a significant QOL improvement in our lives I guess.
NB: I'm saying that but there are several people who are very insecure about that on this forum, so advising them to manage their expectations is probably a smart thing to do in the first place honestly
1 hour ago, Scarlessfuture said:Unfortunately, nothing out there does that at the moment. With microcoring, small layers of skin are extracted and the wound contracts. Mammals heal by contraction as granulation tissue or scar tissue form within the wound. Since the wound is very small, the body doesn't generate granulation tissue but the extracted tissue is lost forever because it is not regenerated.
It will do nothing for atrophic scars left from acne. The scar tissue will remain and this synthetic skin will camouflage the scar tissue at best. I don't see doing much for stretch marks but it could be an improvement to existing treatments.
Ever the pessimist , wait until the papers come in the end of the year.