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If this treatment gives only 40% solid improvement I for one would be happy with that. Anyone who reads this forum more than a couple of times knows virtually all scar treatments are hit and miss and usually give little bang for buck.
If it gives more than that, fantastic but plz don't acquire unrealistic sky high expectations... let's just hope it does deliver at least 40% improvement on average. We can always do repeat treatments, and with healing increased I would imagine there is less downtime which can only be good news.
Let's be patient, realistic and continue to foster these encouraging posts of positive information.
40%. You know that when fraxel first came out it was said to be give you 50% and over results. That 40% will soon turn into 20%, just like fraxel.
Bro...do you even read or pay attention to what you are commenting on? I'm pretty sure 40% was a number he just threw out, not a press released company prediction.
well i understand naitchs being pessimistic because most scar treatment do not work.we just get made to believe we are getting 25 per cent improvement ect. and we get hardly any noticable change.im waiting a few years until something...if it does come about....is out.i want a dramatic improvement of my scars.i also can relate to the people who are optimistic about finding a way to regenerate skin.if there is not any hope then why bother even coming to this forum.i cant understand why younger people even have acne scars today.with retin-a and accutane ect.....nobody should have had acne scars.im older and didnt have these treatments when i was a teen.if i would put a timeline on it.....i would say 5 years at the soonest...maybe 10 or 20 years would be more realistic or maybe 100 or maybe never.i dont know anymore than anyone else when we might have a treatment for scars that works.look at all the other things like cancer,ect that we have spent millions of dollars for research and still havn't found a cure.
naitch....i understand that acne scarring does mess you up in the head but most woman dont give a fuk if you have acne scars or not and many find them attractive.most girls dont want a super pretty boy unless you happen to be a pre-teen girl that is into hanna montana and the jonas....crap music..brothers.go to a good psyciatrist or a really good friend or somewhere where you can get your confidence up.surround yourself with people with positive attitudes that can bring you out of this.maybe you could start lifting weights...you can BREAK out of it...its just this world is also made up of plenty of dumb shit nazi party ss troopers that will still insult you or keep you down to make them feel superior.fuk....em@!
well i understand naitchs being pessimistic because most scar treatment do not work.we just get made to believe we are getting 25 per cent improvement ect. and we get hardly any noticable change.im waiting a few years until something...if it does come about....is out.i want a dramatic improvement of my scars.i also can relate to the people who are optimistic about finding a way to regenerate skin.if there is not any hope then why bother even coming to this forum.i cant understand why younger people even have acne scars today.with retin-a and accutane ect.....nobody should have had acne scars.im older and didnt have these treatments when i was a teen.if i would put a timeline on it.....i would say 5 years at the soonest...maybe 10 or 20 years would be more realistic or maybe 100 or maybe never.i dont know anymore than anyone else when we might have a treatment for scars that works.look at all the other things like cancer,ect that we have spent millions of dollars for research and still havn't found a cure.
Well...we can get a major improvement with excision followed by laser resurfacing of the excision scars. Hopefully, something like ACell or Juvista will help blend them in even more.
And there's TCA CROSS. That also works.
It's not perfect, but at least it's a good improvement.
Have we acheived scarless healing yet? Ive looked into the mirror this morning and I found out theres no way I can be happy unless these scars are removed.
And I got more pissed off when my mom says theres nothing wrong with my face( Note: She was the one who said my acne was no big deal, but it left ugly scars in the end ).
Before you guys thing my acne is just simple cystic acne( You're very wrong ) have you ever had a mixture of pus and blood the quantity size of a pea flowing out through the opening. I could even FEEL the blood pulsing out of my cyst when the thing popped. And had FOUR or FIVE of them with very red sensitive peeling skin on both faces.
Fuk, thinking abt that Im really amazed I didnt force my parents to do something in the first place.
I found this today:
http://www.ispub.com/ostia/index.php?xmlPr...l3n1/tattoo.xml
For such widespread dermabrasion and how bad this injury was, the scarring afterwards doesn't look all that bad. I wonder if acell applications with a compression wrap would essentially eliminate the scarring in a patient such as this? I'd like to hear Bulgarian Derms thoughts on the matter.
I found this today:
http://www.ispub.com/ostia/index.php?xmlPr...l3n1/tattoo.xml
For such widespread dermabrasion and how bad this injury was, the scarring afterwards doesn't look all that bad. I wonder if acell applications with a compression wrap would essentially eliminate the scarring in a patient such as this? I'd like to hear Bulgarian Derms thoughts on the matter.
I found this today:
http://www.ispub.com/ostia/index.php?xmlPr...l3n1/tattoo.xml
For such widespread dermabrasion and how bad this injury was, the scarring afterwards doesn't look all that bad. I wonder if acell applications with a compression wrap would essentially eliminate the scarring in a patient such as this? I'd like to hear Bulgarian Derms thoughts on the matter.
Yeah, I came across that a few months and thought the same thing, save the hypertrophic scarring around the borders. Only thing that worries me is that it seems the hypertrophic scar near hi elbow got hit a little by the dermabrasion, but didn't seem to be affected. Perhaps they didn't go a deep on that part though 
Also it is hard to determine the texture of the wound site after healing. I mean, that site could be chalk full of scar tissue that you can't see because of lighting and poor photo quality. And let me not even start on the pigmentation risk and chance of not being able to tan -_-... BUT what is promising is the thought that perhaps Acell would be able to inhibit this scar formation. This is my hope.
Wide Spread Dermabrasion>Acell>Scar Free
this has been my hope.
What I am also wondering (perhaps someone could answer me this) is will the flooding of stem cells to the area turn them to "new" skin cells? As in, not divided from an already existing skin cell, but a true "fresh cell."
I am wondering this because of the fact that skin cells can only divide a set amount of times, and any sort of damage (whether laser, peel, or dermabrasion) will age skin faster. If Acell does as it says it can, will the stem cells incite the development of fresh skin to alleviate the strain on existing cells?
A couple responses:
- It looks as if in this case, the ability to tan and hyperpigmentation have been pretty much avoided
- I agree completely that it's difficult to completely see the texture of the skin surface. It could be pretty bad and waxy and wavy.
- However!!! You mention the hypertrophic scarring in the high elbow. In the first picture, the man disguised the top of that scar as the mouth of the tattooed lady. You can see the scar post dermabrasion in the middle picture. In the final picture, there is little sign of the top part of that scar. It looks like it helped out a lot with the hypertrophic.
- I would never want to do this to my face though at this point.
I have something to ask, what level of the skin is tattoo ink located in? Btw, that guy's tattoo looks like a pri sch's kid drawing...
it definitely looks like a preschool drawing haha.
but the level of the ink depositing varies greatly. Depending on if it was professional, amatuer, how deep they decided to go etc.,.
my friend is a tatoo artist and says he has seen all kinds of work done. He has seen some both very deep and some very shallow. So it just depends.
If you had it all over your face then it might be hard to tell where you had it slightly more. I've noticed people tend to have acne concentrate on their cheeks and temples...and they also seem to have there scarring there.
actually in all honesty, I can remember where I had it worse. Along my jawline, around my chin, and the area below my lips i had bad cysts. I have gotten them in other areas, but as serious as they were they never seemed to scar along THAT particular area. Then along my cheeks I would get scars that I didn't even know the origin of because I didn't think i had anything bad enough to scar in that area lol. It's really frustrating. Any I get around my cheeks and nose scare me cuz I am afraid they will scar. The temple is another area that was plagued with cysts yet saw no scarring... idk it's weird, but I can definitely tell there are areas that scar more easily than others
The middle of my forehead is like that... 
Ah, I was planning on calling the Redondo doctor today to ask whether or not the rumors regarding his treatments of other types of scarring were accurate but I got off work late today. Blame the French Canadians. I'll try to call tomorrow to see if he is performing it elsewhere and if there have been any updates, although I don't remember if I called only a week or two weeks ago. I don't want to pester the poor guy!
Ah, I was planning on calling the Redondo doctor today to ask whether or not the rumors regarding his treatments of other types of scarring were accurate but I got off work late today. Blame the French Canadians. I'll try to call tomorrow to see if he is performing it elsewhere and if there have been any updates, although I don't remember if I called only a week or two weeks ago. I don't want to pester the poor guy!
I know what you mean about pestering but it is important to have people like you here digging up information. That it what makes this board great.
For those of you who think that acne scarring does not originate in the hypodermis (subcutaneous layer beneath the dermis).... well, unfortunately, you are wrong. All sebaceous follicles in the face originate in the subcutaneous layer of skin. If you plan to remove all scarring, you will have to go down that far. I've said this time and time again in this thread and, for some reason, it seems to be ignored. Perhaps, with some sort of aggressive ablation like deep dermabrasion, Acell could offer mild to medium improvements, but dramatic results will only be seen by taking a dramatic risk - removing the skin all the way down to the hypodermis. And that, of course, is a hellishly frightening thought as we don't know what the results would be. Look up hypodermis on google. Take a few minutes to research the architecture of the skin, for god's sake before you start hypothesizing about how to repair it. If I'm wrong in any of this, then I will gladly eat all of my words.... But for now, I say that most people on this thread are throwing out uneducated guesses as to how to go about using Acell when GOOGLE is one of the quickest, most thorough educational tools available and you could be quite more informed than you are now in a day's worth of dicking around on the internet using appropriate google search terms... I have to be honest and say that I'm amazed that most of you guys haven't taken the time to do this.
Sorry, I had to get that out.
As far as making Acell INFINITELY more effective, I believe it should be used in conjunction with Low Level Laser Therapy (LLLT). LLLT is gentle, but powerful in stimulating all the healing mechanisms in the body during wound healing. Look up the case studies on Acell's website. In the healing of a dolphin's dorsal fin, they used LED therapy (infrared light, which is a kind of LLLT) to speed up the healing in conjunction with Acell. Be aware that most LLLT devices, otherwise known as "cold lasers" are weak and do NOTHING. Look to this manufacturer, and doctors who use their products, for the real deal: www.powermediclaser.com and www.powermedic.dk (be SURE to check out the "Gigalaser" on the latter website and see the how diabetic ulcer was treated. I would surmise that the results of using Acell combined with the Gigalaser would be astonishing. But hey...it's just a guess.
For those of you who think that acne scarring does not originate in the hypodermis (subcutaneous layer beneath the dermis).... well, unfortunately, you are wrong. All sebaceous follicles in the face originate in the subcutaneous layer of skin. If you plan to remove all scarring, you will have to go down that far. I've said this time and time again in this thread and, for some reason, it seems to be ignored. Perhaps, with some sort of aggressive ablation like deep dermabrasion, Acell could offer mild to medium improvements, but dramatic results will only be seen by taking a dramatic risk - removing the skin all the way down to the hypodermis. And that, of course, is a hellishly frightening thought as we don't know what the results would be. Look up hypodermis on google. Take a few minutes to research the architecture of the skin, for god's sake before you start hypothesizing about how to repair it. If I'm wrong in any of this, then I will gladly eat all of my words.... But for now, I say that most people on this thread are throwing out uneducated guesses as to how to go about using Acell when GOOGLE is one of the quickest, most thorough educational tools available and you could be quite more informed than you are now in a day's worth of dicking around on the internet using appropriate google search terms... I have to be honest and say that I'm amazed that most of you guys haven't taken the time to do this.
Sorry, I had to get that out.
Good point, this is why I think excision would be the best method to combine with acell. It would take a lot longer as you'd only want to excise a few scars at a time though.
Then once you've excised and healed all the scars you might want some kind of laser/acid peel/dermabrasion combined with acell again to smooth out the surface a bit more.
Saying that, I'm just speculating and not medically trained, so my view has no value at all, but that's what I'm thinking anyway.
For those of you who think that acne scarring does not originate in the hypodermis (subcutaneous layer beneath the dermis).... well, unfortunately, you are wrong. All sebaceous follicles in the face originate in the subcutaneous layer of skin. If you plan to remove all scarring, you will have to go down that far. I've said this time and time again in this thread and, for some reason, it seems to be ignored. Perhaps, with some sort of aggressive ablation like deep dermabrasion, Acell could offer mild to medium improvements, but dramatic results will only be seen by taking a dramatic risk - removing the skin all the way down to the hypodermis. And that, of course, is a hellishly frightening thought as we don't know what the results would be. Look up hypodermis on google. Take a few minutes to research the architecture of the skin, for god's sake before you start hypothesizing about how to repair it. If I'm wrong in any of this, then I will gladly eat all of my words.... But for now, I say that most people on this thread are throwing out uneducated guesses as to how to go about using Acell when GOOGLE is one of the quickest, most thorough educational tools available and you could be quite more informed than you are now in a day's worth of dicking around on the internet using appropriate google search terms... I have to be honest and say that I'm amazed that most of you guys haven't taken the time to do this.
Sorry, I had to get that out.
As far as making Acell INFINITELY more effective, I believe it should be used in conjunction with Low Level Laser Therapy (LLLT). LLLT is gentle, but powerful in stimulating all the healing mechanisms in the body during wound healing. Look up the case studies on Acell's website. In the healing of a dolphin's dorsal fin, they used LED therapy (infrared light, which is a kind of LLLT) to speed up the healing in conjunction with Acell. Be aware that most LLLT devices, otherwise known as "cold lasers" are weak and do NOTHING. Look to this manufacturer, and doctors who use their products, for the real deal: www.powermediclaser.com and www.powermedic.dk (be SURE to check out the "Gigalaser" on the latter website and see the how diabetic ulcer was treated. I would surmise that the results of using Acell combined with the Gigalaser would be astonishing. But hey...it's just a guess.
I have been using LLLT with needling for over a year. It definenetly seems to help and is probably why i have had 70% improvement in some scars.
Hi holdontohope,
You are right about the LED (LLLT) treatments. It is quite possible that using Acell in conjuction with the proper LEDs will lead to superb results.
With regard to Power Medic's Gigalaser, it's actually not necessarily better than much much cheaper system out there. As you may know, the Gigalaser is actually an LED device with a total panel area of 500cm2. Its total output is 30000mW. That means approximately 60mW per cm2. Now remember, various studies show that doses of 4 Joules per cm2 are most effective for stimulating fibroblasts and other cells. 4 joules is equivalent to 4W, which is equivalent to 4000mW. Thus at 60mW/cm2, the Gigalaser has an output of 0.06W/cm2, which is equivalent to 0.06J/cm2 per second. 4/0.06 = 67 seconds to get the 4 Joule dose.
On the other hand, wiki's inexpensive new LED system can achieve this dose in 156.25 seconds (2.6 minutes). Still rather quick! The only disadvantage his system has is that its panel is very small, so anyone looking to treat their whole face would have to do multiple applications.
Another device, the DPL system, achieves the 4J/cm2 dose in 540 seconds (9 minutes). A little slower, but it's advantage is that it utilizes two large panels that easily cover your entire face so you don't have to do multiple applications.
Either way, no one here needs to buy something like the Gigalaser that costs thousands of dollars. The Gigalaser would not give better results, but rather allow a doctor to cycle through patients faster as the per treatment dose time is reduced to a mere minute.
So, the practical thing to do is either go wiki's route and buy a system costing about $100 or go with what I have given 5 of my patients which is the DPL at a cost of $350/unit. Either way, it's fairly cheap and very effective treatment option as long as you are getting the right dose and LED light at the right wavelengths. My patients and I are all using LED treatment at home on a daily basis and I must tell you that the results thus far are very impressive. I can now say that any porcedure done in combination with daily LED treatments would be significantly enhanced. Even by just doing LED treatments without any other procedures the results are inspiring even after a month time.
Remember, if you get yourself a personal LED system make sure you know its output and thus how long you'll need to use it to get a proper dose of light. Also remember that wavelength of ~660nm, 850-880nm are considered most effective. A combination of these red and infrared wavelengths would be optimal.
hey BRD I told the guy about the panels and he makes bosy panels but trying to see if he could do it the same way as DPL panels but at a lower rate. I'm looking into Carboxy treatment nextweek. What results would you think this would give me combined with 660/880nm led's?
hey BRD I told the guy about the panels and he makes bosy panels but trying to see if he could do it the same way as DPL panels but at a lower rate. I'm looking into Carboxy treatment nextweek. What results would you think this would give me combined with 660/880nm led's?
Hey wiki,
I'm don't know anything about carboxy treatments. In fact, today I learned about this procedure from you. 
So I really don't know what to tell you about it. Anyway the LED treatments would in my opinion complement any procedure so start doing them daily as soon as possible and always adhere to the right doses as a workup to your carboxy injections. After the injections continue doing the LED treatments...
PS: Did you try your LEDs already? Remember you have to use them everyday in a discplined manner. I'll also look into carboxy injections as you've got my interest peaked.
quote]
Hey wiki,
I'm don't know anything about carboxy treatments. In fact, today I learned about this procedure from you. So I really don't know what to tell you about it. Anyway the LED treatments would in my opinion complement any procedure so start doing them daily as soon as possible and always adhere to the right doses as a workup to your carboxy injections. After the injections continue doing the LED treatments...
PS: Did you try your LEDs already? Remember you have to use them everyday in a discplined manner. I'll also look into carboxy injections as you've got my interest peaked.
hey BRD I told the guy about the panels and he makes bosy panels but trying to see if he could do it the same way as DPL panels but at a lower rate. I'm looking into Carboxy treatment nextweek. What results would you think this would give me combined with 660/880nm led's?
Hey wiki,
I'm don't know anything about carboxy treatments. In fact, today I learned about this procedure from you.
PS: Did you try your LEDs already? Remember you have to use them everyday in a discplined manner. I'll also look into carboxy injections as you've got my interest peaked.
holdontohope-
I tried doing your "simplest of internet searches" in google regarding the depth of scars in the skin. I found nothing that really stood out as definitive, so all of us idiots in here probably aren't all that off base with our predictions. The fact that you are looking for confirmation from Bulgarian derm hints that you are at least equally unsure of yourself as we are, so our speculations are not any more unfounded than yours. (By the way, "the simplest of searches" on the internet usually leads to wikipedia, which only states that scars form when an injury occurs to the DERMIS, of course, I'm sure scars will form if you injure yourself deeper).
Also, characterizing ALL scars as reaching the hypodermis is ignorant, not all scars are the same, maybe indented scars do and maybe hypertrophic scars don't even reach the dermis. Every situation is unique.
Also, many people have improved and even essentially completely healed their scars without doing any treatments that extend that deep into the skin. This leads me to believe that at least some scars do not have that problem. Just look at that layered dermabrasion article I posted a little bit ago, how can you see that much improvement in certain areas, when the treatment doesn't reach the hypodermis, and you're hypothesis is assumed?
I don't know that much about the medical side of things, but I am a logical person and this sort of evidence really stacks the odds against your theory. You maybe right in a percentage of cases, but most certainly not all. The bottom line is that even if it does reach the hypodermis, treating the above layers can still create a significant improvement in scar appearance.
Bulgarian Derm-
You got a little too technical with your description of the LED laser and kind of got hung up on the technological aspects of the equipment rather than the effectiveness and treatment. I don't think most of us know much about this treatment. When I hear laser, I automatically tune it out because I think it's just another Fraxel. How is this different? How can it be used in conjunction with ACell for better results?