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I also want to caution people about the digit regrowth. There was no digit regrowth per se. The man's finger was cut above the third joint beyond the base of his nail. There was tissue regeneration, but not bone regeneration. That's a known fact in the medical community. That said xenogeneic ECMs do carry plenty of beneficial cellular signals and they have been shown to allow tissue differentiation that includes various layers of muscle, fat and skin. In some cases, there have even been small bone growths, but not on an advanced level that could result in complete limb (joints, tendons, muscles, bones, etc...) growth. Perhaps with a specialized scaffold this may however be accomplished.
Yes it is true, lee spievack did not cut his whole finger as the sensation-seeking media mentioned first claimed. He did only cut his finger tip without damage of his finger bone. But I've red (this arcticle is not brand new and maybe you have heard about it) that there are now trying to grow a whole finger of a soldier, who lost it in Iraq, with help of the Pixie dust. If it will work it would be a revolution. What is also encouraging is the fact that the government spend lots of money in regenerative medicine(mentioned in the article). So lets hope that the dream affordable scarless healing will come true in nearer future.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/05/26/r...arts/index.html
Yes it is true, lee spievack did not cut his whole finger as the sensation-seeking media mentioned first claimed. He did only cut his finger tip without damage of his finger bone. But I've red (this arcticle is not brand new and maybe you have heard about it) that there are now trying to grow a whole finger of a soldier, who lost it in Iraq, with help of the Pixie dust. If it will work it would be a revolution. What is also encouraging is the fact that the government spend lots of money in regenerative medicine(mentioned in the article). So lets hope that the dream affordable scarless healing will come true in nearer future.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/05/26/r...arts/index.html
Hello Changelife,
But speivak chopped his finger tip off below the nail, this implies that bone was missing, though the bone missing was above the joint. Out of interest have you got a link that said he did not clip off bone?
Also the mere fact that he looked for the finger tip when it was clipped suggested he clipped bone be it you wouldn't look for a lump of skin that small.
As far as I can see from the logic it wasn't just his skin that regenerated completely.
Hello Changelife,
But speivak chopped his finger tip off below the nail, this implies that bone was missing, though the bone missing was above the joint. Out of interest have you got a link that said he did not clip off bone?
Also the mere fact that he looked for the finger tip when it was clipped suggested he clipped bone be it you wouldn't look for a lump of skin that small.
As far as I can see from the logic it wasn't just his skin that regenerated completely.
Hello Kirk,
I looked again after an article, which deals with Spievacks finger. So i have found this interesting article, which is relatively new but probably already mentoined in this forum:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/art...magic-dust.html
When I watched again over the pictures, I recognize now that Spievacks's finger was really chopped down to the bone(nail included). So I must say that my intention was too pesimistic and the pixie does really have some "magical" properties. The text mentions also a website of a doctor(www.Bad Science), which doubted the results of Spievack.They claimed that the experiment was not monitored by independent doctors. This page and also some other were the reason for my scepticism. But the pictures, statement of Lee Spievack and trial with the soldiers makes me more optimistic now. So you are right kirk. But one downer is left: The dust is avaible for veterinary use since years but most most doctors do not use it for the injured pets. It sounds so revolutionary that nobody could abstain from it.
Yes it is true, lee spievack did not cut his whole finger as the sensation-seeking media mentioned first claimed. He did only cut his finger tip without damage of his finger bone. But I've red (this arcticle is not brand new and maybe you have heard about it) that there are now trying to grow a whole finger of a soldier, who lost it in Iraq, with help of the Pixie dust. If it will work it would be a revolution. What is also encouraging is the fact that the government spend lots of money in regenerative medicine(mentioned in the article). So lets hope that the dream affordable scarless healing will come true in nearer future.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/05/26/r...arts/index.html
Hello Changelife,
But speivak chopped his finger tip off below the nail, this implies that bone was missing, though the bone missing was above the joint. Out of interest have you got a link that said he did not clip off bone?
Also the mere fact that he looked for the finger tip when it was clipped suggested he clipped bone be it you wouldn't look for a lump of skin that small.
As far as I can see from the logic it wasn't just his skin that regenerated completely.
I still don't know what all of the fuss is over this- fingers have been known to regenerate on their own. This has spontaneously happened to scores of people that applied other products (herbal compresses, etc) or even nothing at all to their fingers.
I am completely unimpressed by the finger regeneration and feel that it has absolutely no impact on facial acne scarring.
Here is one thing that concerns me...even though things are coming out such as acell and have come out (such as oasis mentioned on the previous page) there is being no work conducted on how effective these things are on acne scars. They could do the most wonderful things, but if there is nothing proven on how well they work on acne scars, no doctor is going to cut your face open and sprinkle whatever it is on, and then hope for the best. There needs to be scientific studies done which prove these things work on acne scars, otherwise the cure could be here right at our finger tips, but doctors will be too afraid to use it because nothing is proven. Horrible burn victims, and people who lose limbs are thought of more seriously when this research is being done, and the easy cure, the acne scar victims are overlooked.
Here is one thing that concerns me...even though things are coming out such as acell and have come out (such as oasis mentioned on the previous page) there is being no work conducted on how effective these things are on acne scars. They could do the most wonderful things, but if there is nothing proven on how well they work on acne scars, no doctor is going to cut your face open and sprinkle whatever it is on, and then hope for the best. There needs to be scientific studies done which prove these things work on acne scars, otherwise the cure could be here right at our finger tips, but doctors will be too afraid to use it because nothing is proven. Horrible burn victims, and people who lose limbs are thought of more seriously when this research is being done, and the easy cure, the acne scar victims are overlooked.
Exactly, there have been no studies done with these products on any type of scars, let alone acne scars.
Exactly, there have been no studies done with these products on any type of scars, let alone acne scars.
Excitement over this is VERY VERY premature.
Many have had fingers regenerate on their own. To make the giant leap to intimate that this is going to remove deep acne scarring is completely unfounded.
I can definitely see where people would get the feeling this could help remove scars seeing as how it can in some cases regrow fingers which is a loss of a part of your body and scars are your body not having skin tissue in that certain area. Which is initially why I was so happy with this having the ability to grow back a part of your body you must be able to grow back part of your loss skin right?
However is this even available if not how far along are they with the experiments?
Exactly, there have been no studies done with these products on any type of scars, let alone acne scars.
Excitement over this is VERY VERY premature.
Many have had fingers regenerate on their own. To make the giant leap to intimate that this is going to remove deep acne scarring is completely unfounded.
I would say that many people have had a nasty pimple that instead of scarring, the wound regenerated either on it's own or with application of something. Many people might have had their fingers regenerate but the probability of such a regeneration event occurring is still very low. Acell may increase the frequency of a regeneration event.... it has been proven in animals that the Acell ECM recruits more cells and causes more generation of tissue. That being said, the leap isn't so giant...if Acell increases the probability of a regeneration event or helps in the migration of tissues then it should be useful in the healing process of an invasive acne scar procedure.
Does the above post make sense? I am half awake right now.
I wish I could find information on how Acell has been working for burn victims. I feel like if it works well on them it should work well on us. I am also encouraged by that guy who had 100% positive results on stretch marks. I wish we could get more doctors in here. I feel like the people making this should want to talk to people like us since if it does help us than we would be target customers.
I've been getting quite a few private messages from acne.org members who are in a lot of pain and desperation. I am happy to talk to you, and I always try to answer your questions in detail. I want you to know that I'm here to help in my own small way, but so far I've tried to stay away from encouraging people to do something drastic. That said, due to the fact that medical services are exceptionally expensive and that many if not most doctors are selfish or at the very least emotionally detached to the point of losing the drive and inspiration to attempt perfection whilst working on your scars, I have decided I am going to try and give you more knowledge in the hope that you will find a way to make it work for you.
What I am about to tell you could potentially mean that I loose my medical license, particularly because I will suggest a filler substance that has been shown to have efficacy in treating depressed acne scars. Then again, no one here knows my name.
Obviously there are many fillers, most of them synthetic and or composed of foreign tissue, so they are not only expensive but also dangerous. Yes they help, but at times they also harm. You need a doctor that is like an artist, full of passion and expertise, who is willing to work with you for hours upon hours, week after week, until something near perfection can be achieved. Unfortunately this will cost you a small fortune. Sometimes, you may opt to go to a relatively poor country where the same service will not impact your bank account to the same degree. Even so, it is not easy to find the surgical talant, kind heart and perfection oriented intellect all combined into one human 'medical practioner's package.
I don't know if you've heard of this, but autologous substances when used correctly can provide permanence in tissue augmentation. You all likely know of autologous fat injection and autologous collagen injection. However, you do not have access to these materials. It would be very dangerous for anyone to attempt to harvest/isolate either of these substances from themselves. So you are left with only one option and that is to go to a doctor in your area, who will charge you a lot of money only to give you an imperfect service.
Now think of your days in high school math class and try to recall the Bell Curve. Split it up according to standard deviations. The horizontal axis of this Bell Curve represents the cosmetic/surgical skills of doctors. Any career, and indeed anyone regardless of their educational background, will in one way or another fall somewhere on this curve. Doctors included! From a statistical standpoint then, 50% of doctors are below average in their skills, while only those beyond 1.5 to 2.0 standard deviations on the right side of the curve's average can be considered to have good skills. The top 2.5% are those that are considered outstanding. That's 1 in 40... You have to do your homework to find these bright lights in a largely dark world.
Generally the 1 in 40 doctors will charge you more for their unusual abilities. This however is not always the case. Again, these doctors, including the artistic geniuses ( the 1 in 100 factor ) are also present in poor countries. If you are from a wealthy area of the world, you may just be able to afford them and their supreme abilities. But even so, there is the issue of travel, the difference in medical culture, etc that make this less practical. Also, many of the supreme doctors might be great with their hands, but again could potentially turn out to be indifferent and incapable of accepting their own fallacy should problems arise. Those that think they are gods sometimes make the biggest mistakes!
OK, so here's the reality.
Your bone marrow tissue mixed with your blood can be injected into your acne scars. I don't know if it has been done, but cardiologists have been experimenting with this for some time now. Scar tissue seems to get rebuilt in such experiments and healthy heart function returns often within weeks of injection into the scarred areas of the heart muscle.
The problem with this is that again you will have to go to a foremost expert who is willing to try this. The costs involved would be through the roof. Further still, what would the results be? I believe quite good, but I don't have proof as I have not done this procedure myself. That said, it works in the heart experiments because your bone marrow contains stem cells. It also contains a host of other things that will give recipient cells a myriad of regeneration stimulating signals.
What about your blood? Yes, your blood can be injected into your acne scars. This is where I can get into a lot of trouble, but then again my identity is secure. Haha! Or at least I happen to think so, thus I am enjoying a feeling of security that could potentially be a case of 'ignorance is bliss'... Oh well!
What many of you probably didn't know because some doctors forgot to tell you is that your own blood injected into scar tissue can cause a haematoma that in turn perpetuates collagen formation in that exact area.
Here's a quote:
"In this study, we explored the possibility of blood injection as a means of augmenting the labrum's contribution to the glenoid concavity. Tissue augmentation by injection of materials has become a well-established procedure in the fields of dermatologie and cosmetic surgery.18-21 It has also been advocated, in view of its minimal invasiveness and morbidity, as a primary treatment for velopharyngeal incompetence22 and dysphonia.23 Materials used for injection have included bovine collagen, homologous collagen, hyaluronic acid gel, and autologous fat. The use of autologous blood to augment atrophie acne scars has also been reported to be effective and has been postulated to have a long-lasting effect by inducing collagen formation in the resulting haematoma.24"
Here's another quote from a different source:
"Blood transfer is a unique method of injecting one's own blood into a depressed acne scar. For deeper scars, blood can be injected to correct the skin deficit, which then induces collagen production in the area to produce a medium to long-term improvement. For more superficial scars, a smaller amount of blood is injected superficially into the scar, and then a vascular laser such as the Gemini laser is used to fire into the acne scar containing blood. The laser is attracted specifically to the blood, and this induces a stimulation of collagen in the scar which helps to raise the skin to a more even level."
Is this as effective as other fillers? I am not certain, since a comparative study must be performed in order to ascertain the relative efficacy of such a procedure. However, my analysis and consequent application of logic as based on sound scientific principles leads me to believe that it could very well be just as effective as those "other" fillers that claim to stimulate collagen formation, yet end up costing you more than your car is worth. OK, maybe I'm exaggerating, but you get the point.
Research the composition of blood and the way in which it functions to gain further insight into what this procedure could mean for you. Do the searches and come to your own conclusions. You deserve the power of information. This is information can then be transformed by your minds into knowledge... and I may be going on a limb here, but perhaps you have more knowledge about acne scars then 99% of doctors out there. Remember the Bell Curve!
Do what you want with this knowledge, but remember:
a) blood contains 'peripheral blood stem cells'
b) blood contains many other cells (neutrophils, monocytes, etc) that are vital for repair, including proteins for cellular communication, fibroblast regulation, etc
c) blood is easy to extract (You know the drill...)
d) it's yours after all, so it's free and your veins are not all that difficult to get to (Oh boy!)
Some might want to 'biblically' stone me to death for saying this. But since joining acne.org I can clearly see that people are doing all kinds of dangerous things to themselves precisely because of the pain and desperation present within their/our suffering souls. So I finally decided I might just lose my professional sanity here by sharing this piece of information...
Again, I suggest you discuss this with a doctor who wants to truly help you... I also hope he's up there in the skills we discussed. The fact is, one must sterilize the skin before injection and one must do it soon after blood extraction, because you don't want cells within the blood to die.
OK, there it was! I'm tired now... I feel good and bad all at once. It takes a great deal of time and effort for me to compose these messages and articulate them in a way that is beneficial for your/our cause. I do my best to express myself in an understandable fashion as English is not my first language. Anyway, whatever your opinion may be, base it on knowledge and understand that this is my way of helping you... Even if there may be member-to-member disagreements on moral, ethical and/or professional levels, I believe this is the way in which I can help.
Hey guys, even though there is no proper study on how acell would help for people with facial scarring, we can assume the results through the trials on the burnt victims. If these burnt victims are able to regrow healthy skin then I dont see why we should be denied this treatment. Furthermore, the scars on these burnt victims are definetly more serious then our "minor" acne scars. So, we have to see how the results go. Got my fingers crossed, I dont really expect any significant results though.
On the other hand, Ellen Heber Katz back in 2005 was able to regenerate mouse's organs, limb and skin. A mouse DNA is 99% similar to a humans, we even have the genes to grow a tail. So 3 years later, shouldnt we have some advancement now? At least being able to grow a skin in adult humans for the first step?
Hmm keeps me wondering what the hell is taking these researchers so long. We already got the money plumped into the research, we also have the expertise and the government backing it up. So ANNOUNCE SOMETHING goddamit.
Was just browsing through the web for the usual research on scarless healing and bumped into this:
http://www.physorg.com/news120108305.html
Quote:
"New research from the University of Bristol shows that by suppressing one of the genes that normally switches on in wound cells, wounds can heal faster and reduce scarring. This has major implications not just for wound victims but also for people who suffer organ tissue damage through illness or abdominal surgery."
Great, great great. In the article, they found out that the gene that causes scarring is osteopontin ( OPN ), thus supressing it would greatly reduce scarring.Somehow, I think if all the scientific minds researching on scarless healing would pool their expertise together, we will be able to get scarless healing in no time. Same thing with sequencing the human genome...
Other articles about osteopontin:
http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_rel...h_may_end_scars
http://www.jem.org/cgi/content/full/205/1/2
So their solution is to use a gel to curb the gene called osteopontin. I wonder if this gel can be use in conjucture with acell?
Was just browsing through the web for the usual research on scarless healing and bumped into this:
http://www.physorg.com/news120108305.html
Quote:
"New research from the University of Bristol shows that by suppressing one of the genes that normally switches on in wound cells, wounds can heal faster and reduce scarring. This has major implications not just for wound victims but also for people who suffer organ tissue damage through illness or abdominal surgery."
Great, great great. In the article, they found out that the gene that causes scarring is osteopontin ( OPN ), thus supressing it would greatly reduce scarring.Somehow, I think if all the scientific minds researching on scarless healing would pool their expertise together, we will be able to get scarless healing in no time. Same thing with sequencing the human genome...
Other articles about osteopontin:
http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_rel...h_may_end_scars
http://www.jem.org/cgi/content/full/205/1/2
So their solution is to use a gel to curb the gene called osteopontin. I wonder if this gel can be use in conjucture with acell?
Bizarre type fallacy:
Katz found out the mechanical key to scarless healing before osteopontin, and the researchers are claiming osteopontin is a step towards scarless healing...
However I think I'm right in thinking that Katz announced her find after osteopontin was announced???
Anyway a link: http://www.acell.com/pdf/TCOTH%20ACell%20Article.pdf
ok....again lots of hope and change..sounds like obama....and who will come up with a new way to run cars without petro and cheeply....hummm.again lots of talk and no action.i just dont think you should get people's hope's up before we see some hard core results....just my point of view.
ok....again lots of hope and change..sounds like obama....and who will come up with a new way to run cars without petro and cheeply....hummm.again lots of talk and no action.i just dont think you should get people's hope's up before we see some hard core results....just my point of view.
well that is the whole point of the latest excitement. we don't know shit about acell. we only know of it's potential. that being said ...it's now going to be more accessible to humans (with its release in june-july) ....so we aren't banking on that scarless healing and our magic bullet is here... we are excited in actually KNOWING what it can be used for now that it is more accessible for our aliments.
alll i know is that everyone here believes that this cruel joke nature had played on us must be stopped. lets just hope and pray and wish that this is the solution. lets hope we can feel normal again.
well since i spent nearly 30k on treatments that didnt do a whole lot of the years..dont you think its time we might be givin' a break and not charged about 10 or so k even when a treatment comes out..if it ever does.doctors are getting rich on us while we are going broke.
As many of the readers of this thread now, acell is supposedely coming out for human use within the next month. The question I have is, how does it plan to be applied to humans. Will it be a dressing for scars after surgrey, or for wounds people have from things like motorcycle accidents? I am sure that when it comes out it isnt going to start being used for acne scars once they have been cut out. So basically the problem I see is I can imagine this just being used as a healing agent, without much research on its effects with acne scars, therefore doctors will never use it for that purpose. Unless it can truely produce scarless healing, it is really risky to cut out an entire scar.
i dont think the scars will be cut out rather than it might be used after a co2 laser or some other ablative type of laser.or maybe after a dermabrasion or exoderm.probably if this stuff works at all would be just spot tried on a small area of the face and or better yet acne that has scarred on your back if any.
i dont think the scars will be cut out rather than it might be used after a co2 laser or some other ablative type of laser.or maybe after a dermabrasion or exoderm.probably if this stuff works at all would be just spot tried on a small area of the face and or better yet acne that has scarred on your back if any.
It wouldnt work that way, cause the scar tissue has to be removed.
and how do u get rid of scar tissue by the way...cutting would lead to more scars....i can't imagine any doctor willing to risk a lawsuit in doing this....it might result in more scarring.this stuff will never see the light of day...and even if it does..probably wont work at all.
and how do u get rid of scar tissue by the way...cutting would lead to more scars....i can't imagine any doctor willing to risk a lawsuit in doing this....it might result in more scarring.this stuff will never see the light of day...and even if it does..probably wont work at all.
The point of acell and similar things being researched, is that it blocks the body from acting in a normal way and producing scar tissue, so theoretically you could cut the scar tissue out and then the skin could grow back without a scar. But you are right, until research is done on how effective this is in getting rid of acne scars, no doctor is going to cut up your face. This is why research really needs to be done on how things like acell work specifically on acne scars!
and how do u get rid of scar tissue by the way...cutting would lead to more scars....i can't imagine any doctor willing to risk a lawsuit in doing this....it might result in more scarring.this stuff will never see the light of day...and even if it does..probably wont work at all.
The point of acell and similar things being researched, is that it blocks the body from acting in a normal way and producing scar tissue, so theoretically you could cut the scar tissue out and then the skin could grow back without a scar. But you are right, until research is done on how effective this is in getting rid of acne scars, no doctor is going to cut up your face. This is why research really needs to be done on how things like acell work specifically on acne scars!
They wouldnt care, cause the only things that concern them are horrific burnt victims, lost limbs and fingers. However, if they are able to grow back healthy skin from burn victims then we can made a case that it would work for our scars.