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I've said if something is proven, it is proven.
Btw any ignorant assertion that we have to create (use an artistic license) something new or interesting for the thread is wrong imo. (This thread repeats itself, you are right in claiming deja vu)
Seriously, what more can you do than repeat cited reliable facts that do with scar free healing??? Do you want to expand on bs over facts?
Example do you want, anonymous people to be creative and write a non cited essay? Do you want posters to speculate? Discuss things that are not scar free healing? Do you want people to talk pseudo science and bs?
You mentioned before, being 'rational' inferring we are not rational, and you used the term 'huff and puff' and clamed this is all 'huff and puff'? Then surely, though boring, and being 'deja vu,' 'sticking to the facts' as dull as it is, is actually 'rational,' and is not 'huff and puff'???
So what do you want? Huff and puff and irrationality (artistic license), or rationality and science (not being gullible)???
Deja vu/btw, I have never failed, or brought up any solutions, example I have never stated anything that is not cited, I have never pulled something out of my but. Though what I have done is highlight what has the highest expectancy by citing stuff.
Again you state I know nothing, I have never claimed to know something. All I do is bring up, deja vu, sources. deja vu, preferably scientific sources to do with scar free healing.
Seab135 you have said the same things before. Science proves this etc...your posts reek of deja vu.
I would love to see hydrogel be the answer like all of you. I used to be quite gullible, but trust me, recreating perfect skin from deeply scarred large areas of skin on the face (with discoloration be it red or brown) doesnt seem feasible yet. Improvements? No doubt. On the right track? Possibly. But if you are telling ,e dextran hydrogel is going to be the answer and it will be available soon(according to reports) we might as well throw a party because the mice and pigs trials worked out. We dont know if the pig trial has worked out yet..
Wait for the human trials. You have trumped your horn with other failed" solutions" on this thread. You have quoted numerous articles dating back years ago only to find it didnt work out.
Learn that until its there to see, unless you are the scientist involved, you know nothing. For instance the 1720 nm laser has been shown since 2006 to be the optimal wavelegnth to destroy sebaceous glands and theoreticaly cure acne. Its been documented in articles as recently as 2013 to cure sebaceous hyperplasia. Why isnt it out there in the market yet? Its proven more effective than all other wavelegmths that are our there on the market.
Okay. I'll put this in perspective. They said they would be able to clone a wooly mammoth by now. It's been cited as possible.
take it with a pinch of salt. It might happen but like scarless healing and perfect skin regeneration we are a lot further away from it then articles claim.
You don't take scientific information, or anything that can be tested, with, to use the sound bite, a 'pinch of salt,' you test it, you verify it with action; you do however take speculation or pseudo science with, a 'pinch of salt.'
you should tell everyone then to throw a party as science has shown, therefore once hydrogel is approved we will all have perfect complexions. Its official. Go celebrate. infact, create a new forum called from scarred to perfect, hydrogel users.
sorry but i dont think its as simple as that.
@Enoughisenough, I guess if you can't trust the validity of the hydrogel (no matter how many times the reports have proven it to be effective), then maybe avoid conversing about that particular subject and talk about something else instead? Perhaps, other ways/methods you've heard about discussing the potential to achieve scarless healing. This forum is after all dedicated to discussing about things like that.
There is no need to be constantly attacking others for their input. Although seabs did mention some pretty awesome things (that you can't really dispute on), like the validity of the reports (and the hydrogel) and the constant testing (and equally constant results) mentioned in the reports. If you refuse to believe and look at the facts then there's absolutely no need to go around attacking others.
Who knows. Perhaps the solution to scarless healing could be as simple as this. Come to think about it, if scientists are able to print out organs (google it) then why not find the key to scarless healing.
i want to believe in it, but I feel I dont feel this is the magic wand. If this were the magic wand it would be making the news. by news i mean big time news. on CNN BBC etc
you do realize that right? turning destroyed skin into perfect skin.
my point is until I see it i remain skeptical. I would love to have my old skin back. Here is another thing i want to ask. What about the age of the person? Would that have an affect on the quality of skin that is regrown?
I have an interest but I'm not basing my life on it. Sorry, but you have skin dysmorphia. You also appear to have deeper issues. Anger is very apparant here. I have an account on here because if there is indeed something concrete or questions id like to ask I do so. It doesnt mean I live my life based on it.
My esteem is fine. You know why? Because I know I am more than just skin. I dont just feel it, I show it. At the end of the day, your going to be old. People arent going to care if you are cute or not. You are still stuck in a high school mentality. I was like you, but this is no way to live.
You are angry not because of what im saying but because you truthfuly have no clue about hydrogel working or not and this is your defense mechanism.
Go out there and live, you will find life will be better then waiting for something that may not end up being important anymore if you decide to say hello to your life.
you are the pessimistic one
i choose life and if theres something out there thats 100% concrete and safe and works, great go for it. Until then, you are in a dark dark place and basing your life on the lowest form of thought.
before you go into a trance again, i really suggest you ask yourself what life is really about. Ask yourself what true happiness is. Of course, we all would like to look out best, but what if you cant. WHAT IF hydrogel dissapoints? you going to wait for SEAB135 to post the next ''sure thing''?
Live life and you will oddly enough find things that might help will feel like they have come around quicker.
Hydrogel is interesting, thats why ive commented on it. However, I have seen so much hype around so many different things. I asked these questions about hydrogel but I will wait for human trials and trials with ACNE SCARS and its deep discoloration as well as indentations.
If the results are perfect, Wonderful, if not i pray you find solace in something more worthwhile then acne.org hope.
We've had people like you on this board before and had them banned. You aren't a psychologist so stop trying to diagnose/attack another poster on this board. You're not qualified (especially over the Internet) and it doesn't have anything to do with the topic of the thread. It's just a waste of time.
Onto the subject at hand, you show us a picture of something that has nothing to do with the hydrogel (a person with an area of damaged/red skin) and say, "Look it's red! No way it ever gets back to the perfect skin around it!" What's the point of even posting it? Anyone on this board could espouse their opinion but unless you're a medical professional (and I'm guessing you're not) it's just clouding the issue and directing us away from where our energy should be with thisposting things relevant to scarless or scar free healing.
All we know is that using the dextran hydrogel on mice resulted in complete regeneration and that there are several other promising things close to coming to the US market (might already be available in other markets like Recell). So please, let's all try to stick to things that have at least a modicum of scientific imperative instead of posts about bering skeptical when really it's just opinion. Skeptical would imply you have some sort of factually grounded assertion to make about the use of the hydrogel on humans instead of just saying, "no way it will work! I just don't see it."
Wow. Its not an attack. Its common sense and obvious. Just because it regenerates in mice doesnt mean it will translate to people. Physcology is pretty useless as it is been taught or trained in society.its flawed.Its concept based and dualistic thus not worth my time. Im not attacking people here, im stating my concern for people who are clinging on to something hat has many years to go before it becomes a reality. Its not healthy. Also, that photo is a good example of a common problem people have with scarring. You see that red is the result of widespread scar tissue.its not normal skin. I use perfect skin on my face as a reference. Can science in the next couple of years create say the perfect skin near my temple in color and texture where my Scars and redness is? Until i see photos i dont care about studies. Iwant to see it in practice, on the news and available to the public. Seen these talks before. Just because trials are done doesnt always mean its truthful. Take mirvaso for example. Its a total scam and has ruined peoples skin. According to trials it did something completely different.
Im a mature person whos tired of hype over true practical substance.
I've heard that some chronic skin diseases don't return once the affected skin is removed.
This would only be a temporary fix for chronic skin diseases that continually damage the skin over time. For example, I have Keratosis Pilaris and Rosacea, but there are many others you can read about online.
There are people like me suffering from far worse than just scars...
I've heard that some chronic skin diseases don't return once the affected skin is removed.
This would only be a temporary fix for chronic skin diseases that continually damage the skin over time. For example, I have Keratosis Pilaris and Rosacea, but there are many others you can read about online.
There are people like me suffering from far worse than just scars...
interesting. Link?
I've heard that some chronic skin diseases don't return once the affected skin is removed.
This would only be a temporary fix for chronic skin diseases that continually damage the skin over time. For example, I have Keratosis Pilaris and Rosacea, but there are many others you can read about online.
There are people like me suffering from far worse than just scars...
This may be true for some things, but for chronic diseases that have underlying causes far deeper than the skin itself, it is most certainly not true. I have Rosacea and KP ALL OVER MY BODY. I did not have signs Rosacea and KP when I was born. These diseases progressed and affected my skin slowly over time. I have treated the conditions for many years and, while the treatments are effective temporarily, the skin eventually goes right back to the way it was.
There is still so much ignorance in the world that I don't blame you for thinking this, nor do I blame all of the homeopaths out there. But sadly this way of thinking is pure ignorance. We are genetic organisms and it is our genes that either cause or open the way to disease.
The environment sometimes plays a part, and sometimes it is effective to modify the environment to get relief, but if the disease is so bad that you have to avoid 90% of the things in ANY environment, then it becomes insane to even consider that route.The only true cure to chronic diseases is to actually change the problematic genes themselves. There will be no surface level solution or environmental solution or dietary solution that will ever cure me. I have changed my environment many times. I have changed my diet many times. I have put hundreds of different creams and lotions on my skin to no avail. I have undergone laser treatments of every variety. I have had blood tests and prick tests to attempt to determine underlying allergies. I have installed HEPA filters and dehumidifiers in my home. I have seen ENTs, immunologists, dermatologists, rheumatologists, homeopathic doctors, general practitioners, biologists, con artists posing as doctors... I have spent more money and time than you would believe.
The REAL solution to almost any medical problem is: IDENTIFY the problematic gene(s), MODIFY the problematic gene(s), CURED. All of you with rosacea and acne that CAUSED your scars, had you not had the genes that caused your skin to break out in the first place, you wouldn't need an after-the-fact skin regeneration treatment. It was a disease that caused your scars. It was a gene or set of genes that made you suffer in the first place.
I've heard that some chronic skin diseases don't return once the affected skin is removed.
This would only be a temporary fix for chronic skin diseases that continually damage the skin over time. For example, I have Keratosis Pilaris and Rosacea, but there are many others you can read about online.
There are people like me suffering from far worse than just scars...
This may be true for some things, but for chronic diseases that have underlying causes far deeper than the skin itself, it is most certainly not true. I have Rosacea and KP ALL OVER MY BODY. I did not have signs Rosacea and KP when I was born. These diseases progressed and affected my skin slowly over time. I have treated the conditions for many years and, while the treatments are effective temporarily, the skin eventually goes right back to the way it was.
There is still so much ignorance in the world that I don't blame you for thinking this, nor do I blame all of the homeopaths out there. But sadly this way of thinking is pure ignorance. We are genetic organisms and it is our genes that either cause or open the way to disease.
The environment sometimes plays a part, and sometimes it is effective to modify the environment to get relief, but if the disease is so bad that you have to avoid 90% of the things in ANY environment, then it becomes insane to even consider that route.The only true cure to chronic diseases is to actually change the problematic genes themselves. There will be no surface level solution or environmental solution or dietary solution that will ever cure me. I have changed my environment many times. I have changed my diet many times. I have put hundreds of different creams and lotions on my skin to no avail. I have undergone laser treatments of every variety. I have had blood tests and prick tests to attempt to determine underlying allergies. I have installed HEPA filters and dehumidifiers in my home. I have seen ENTs, immunologists, dermatologists, rheumatologists, homeopathic doctors, general practitioners, biologists, con artists posing as doctors... I have spent more money and time than you would believe.
The REAL solution to almost any medical problem is: IDENTIFY the problematic gene(s), MODIFY the problematic gene(s), CURED. All of you with rosacea and acne that CAUSED your scars, had you not had the genes that caused your skin to break out in the first place, you wouldn't need an after-the-fact skin regeneration treatment. It was a disease that caused your scars. It was a gene or set of genes that made you suffer in the first place.
I hear you. I feel my rosacea has occured mostly because of my acne and skincare/laser treatments. I feel as my skin has lost its perfect function it became susceptible. basically its a sign of damage and constant mild inflammation.
Genetic engineering is the cure.
IN my case, my redness could be alleviated permanently if given a fresh start I feel. New skin. Before my acne i never had rosacea of any kind. as my acne progressed as I got into BP and that stuff then rosacea came to the fray.
I have been looking at the photos of the mice and the trials. You see here is the thing, some scar tissue does grow hair. I have areas of scars which have hair growth. Actualy lots of hair growth. NORMAL hair growth. After a number of treatments. Thing is my skin still looks uneven and with skin that is texturally and tone wise not as aesthetic as it was.
Here is where the human aspect comes into play. You can look at the mice and say yes there is hair growth and the scar doesn't look as noticeable. BUT i do see the hydrogel photo and the skin isnt perfect. It just has the important structures in place. I can see see the marks of the scar.
On people its easier to grasp as we have an idea of what good skin on people looks like. Heck mice have fur! we never see their skin. We don't judge these mices skin in the same harsh manner as we do with people do we?
So you're saying you know better than the research scientists? They think they achieved scarless healing but you know better? 
I have been looking at the photos of the mice and the trials. You see here is the thing, some scar tissue does grow hair. I have areas of scars which have hair growth. Actualy lots of hair growth. NORMAL hair growth. After a number of treatments. Thing is my skin still looks uneven and with skin that is texturally and tone wise not as aesthetic as it was.
Here is where the human aspect comes into play. You can look at the mice and say yes there is hair growth and the scar doesn't look as noticeable. BUT i do see the hydrogel photo and the skin isnt perfect. It just has the important structures in place. I can see see the marks of the scar.
So you're saying you know better than the research scientists? They think they achieved scarless healing but you know better?
I have been looking at the photos of the mice and the trials. You see here is the thing, some scar tissue does grow hair. I have areas of scars which have hair growth. Actualy lots of hair growth. NORMAL hair growth. After a number of treatments. Thing is my skin still looks uneven and with skin that is texturally and tone wise not as aesthetic as it was.
Here is where the human aspect comes into play. You can look at the mice and say yes there is hair growth and the scar doesn't look as noticeable. BUT i do see the hydrogel photo and the skin isnt perfect. It just has the important structures in place. I can see see the marks of the scar.
It's not about knowing better. It's about knowing what we would entail as scarless healing. It isnt as simple as skin that doest have an indent. its also about skin that has the right TONE and texture. I have NO doubt hydrogel does improve skin after the procedure far more then whats available currently BUT im quite certain it wont re-create perfect ( astheticaly pleasing) skin. When we see it being used on people, we can then determine if it's the official game changer. Make no mistake, It will improve the lives of many. However, I want to see it used on peoples skin and with all types of scarring and discoloration before any kind of proclamation
I have been looking at the photos of the mice and the trials. You see here is the thing, some scar tissue does grow hair. I have areas of scars which have hair growth. Actualy lots of hair growth. NORMAL hair growth. After a number of treatments. Thing is my skin still looks uneven and with skin that is texturally and tone wise not as aesthetic as it was.
Here is where the human aspect comes into play. You can look at the mice and say yes there is hair growth and the scar doesn't look as noticeable. BUT i do see the hydrogel photo and the skin isnt perfect. It just has the important structures in place. I can see see the marks of the scar.
On people its easier to grasp as we have an idea of what good skin on people looks like. Heck mice have fur! we never see their skin. We don't judge these mices skin in the same harsh manner as we do with people do we?
Bullshit .... scar tissue does not have any hair follicles , sweat glands , oil glands etc ....
I have been looking at the photos of the mice and the trials. You see here is the thing, some scar tissue does grow hair. I have areas of scars which have hair growth. Actualy lots of hair growth. NORMAL hair growth. After a number of treatments. Thing is my skin still looks uneven and with skin that is texturally and tone wise not as aesthetic as it was.
Here is where the human aspect comes into play. You can look at the mice and say yes there is hair growth and the scar doesn't look as noticeable. BUT i do see the hydrogel photo and the skin isnt perfect. It just has the important structures in place. I can see see the marks of the scar.
On people its easier to grasp as we have an idea of what good skin on people looks like. Heck mice have fur! we never see their skin. We don't judge these mices skin in the same harsh manner as we do with people do we?
Bullshit .... scar tissue does not have any hair follicles , sweat glands , oil glands etc ....
If its been remodeled enough ( like mine) it can grow. Its the quality of the tissue im talking about. Skin is either scarred or it isnt. However, scar tissue can be manipulated enough for hair to grow. You will see a number of reports of people who have treated their scars who didnt have hair in that area but eventualy did grow hair. I had a big patch near my beard area. Now its completley filled in. The scar is still there under shadow lighting but i have hair there.
I have been looking at the photos of the mice and the trials. You see here is the thing, some scar tissue does grow hair. I have areas of scars which have hair growth. Actualy lots of hair growth. NORMAL hair growth. After a number of treatments. Thing is my skin still looks uneven and with skin that is texturally and tone wise not as aesthetic as it was.
Here is where the human aspect comes into play. You can look at the mice and say yes there is hair growth and the scar doesn't look as noticeable. BUT i do see the hydrogel photo and the skin isnt perfect. It just has the important structures in place. I can see see the marks of the scar.
On people its easier to grasp as we have an idea of what good skin on people looks like. Heck mice have fur! we never see their skin. We don't judge these mices skin in the same harsh manner as we do with people do we?
Bullshit .... scar tissue does not have any hair follicles , sweat glands , oil glands etc ....
If its been remodeled enough ( like mine) it can grow. Its the quality of the tissue im talking about. Skin is either scarred or it isnt. However, scar tissue can be manipulated enough for hair to grow. You will see a number of reports of people who have treated their scars who didnt have hair in that area but eventualy did grow hair. I had a big patch near my beard area. Now its completley filled in. The scar is still there under shadow lighting but i have hair there.
Complete baloney as far as i know , you can ask a doctor and or a dermatologist .... hair does not regrow on scar tissue ... once you cut or create a wound deep enough it will destory the follicles , the only way to replace the lost hair created by the scar tissue is to implant the hair ....
I have been looking at the photos of the mice and the trials. You see here is the thing, some scar tissue does grow hair. I have areas of scars which have hair growth. Actualy lots of hair growth. NORMAL hair growth. After a number of treatments. Thing is my skin still looks uneven and with skin that is texturally and tone wise not as aesthetic as it was.
Here is where the human aspect comes into play. You can look at the mice and say yes there is hair growth and the scar doesn't look as noticeable. BUT i do see the hydrogel photo and the skin isnt perfect. It just has the important structures in place. I can see see the marks of the scar.
On people its easier to grasp as we have an idea of what good skin on people looks like. Heck mice have fur! we never see their skin. We don't judge these mices skin in the same harsh manner as we do with people do we?
Bullshit .... scar tissue does not have any hair follicles , sweat glands , oil glands etc ....
If its been remodeled enough ( like mine) it can grow. Its the quality of the tissue im talking about. Skin is either scarred or it isnt. However, scar tissue can be manipulated enough for hair to grow. You will see a number of reports of people who have treated their scars who didnt have hair in that area but eventualy did grow hair. I had a big patch near my beard area. Now its completley filled in. The scar is still there under shadow lighting but i have hair there.
Complete baloney as far as i know , you can ask a doctor and or a dermatologist .... hair does not regrow on scar tissue ... once you cut or create a wound deep enough it will destory the follicles , the only way to replace the lost hair created by the scar tissue is to implant the hair ....
sorry bud. When scarring is fresh and hasnt been treated, yes no hair. I have a full beard. When i had my deep scar for a year and half i had a patch of no hair. I have hair now and its completly filled in. I used copper peptides did lasers and dermarolling etc. My scar is still there, in the dermis, but its less fibrotic and close to normal skin. i also know someone from uni years ago who had terrible scarring and did a tonne of treatments and had hair grow.
if you never treat your scars, yes hair will not grow back. However scar tissue can be remodelled enough for hair follicles to grow.
my point is this, you can get improvements in skin structure and function in a number of ways. BUT to get it LOOKING perfect/flawless
doubtful
When the dermis is destroyed, the scars do not regrow hair, nerves or sweat glands, providing additional challenges to body temperature control
http://www.nationaltraumainstitute.org/home/burn_injuries.html
When the dermis is destroyed, the scars do not regrow hair, nerves or sweat glands, providing additional challenges to body temperature control
http://www.nationaltraumainstitute.org/home/burn_injuries.html
well then i must not have scars anymore because the miracle of hair has been bestowed upon me....here is what happanes. scar tissue is shrinked and made minimal.Hair is grown in abundance. Its bundled up collagen. With treatment over a long period of time thing of these bundles of collagen like bundled up cotton threads, over time they are stretched out that little bit more. Eventualy hair is grown. in my case my sebaceous glands have become even more ACTIVE with acne!
There are way to many dynamics here. When acne scars are fresh and new and untreated they will never grow hair. But if treated and collagen and remodelling is stimulated. SORRY I have way to much experience with my own skin and knowing of others to listen to conceptual crap.
collagen is built around and above the scar. I HAD FAT LOSS. i no longer have that. I simply have collagen built in an around the scar tissue. You can only see the shadow scars in very specific lighting now.
when scars are left untreated, there will be no hair. That is an undisputable fact.
however, if treated consistantly and correctly that is not the case. I use myself as an example. my scar near the beard line area was super deep boxscar. Howcome i can grow hair as normal there?
some kinda magic...like hydrogel magic 
lol
i expect nothing so I'll most likely not be disappointed! Enoughisenough, the 'scientific evidence,' (I'm not going to shout), using the control (that has been used on all tissues on every mammal), shows the expectancy is very, very high that this is a parallel process. This is all testable. Example, if someone does not like a result, they can test it again.
Enoughisenough, I'm not being nasty, but imo you do not understand the difference between 'common sense' (subjectivity) and empirical 'evidence'. You also do not understand the concept of misinformation. Or the concept of prejudice. Or why scientific expectancy is way more reliable than anyone's 'common sense.'
Enoughisenough, the 'scientific evidence,' (I'm not going to shout), using the control (that has been used on all tissues on every mammal), shows the expectancy is very, very high that this is a parallel process. This is all testable. Example, if someone does not like a result, they can test it again.
Enoughisenough, I'm not being nasty, but imo you do not understand the difference between 'common sense' (subjectivity) and empirical 'evidence'. You also do not understand the concept of misinformation. Or the concept of prejudice. Or why scientific expectancy is way more reliable than anyone's 'common sense.'
so you are basically saying
Hydrogel is the savior for acne scars and will completely restore ones skin to its perfect pre-scarred self. Great, so by 2015 as this will pass through the FDA easily as a device, we should all be completely scar free with model like skin.
great. You should tell people to not waste their money on other threads then as the cure is here and will be available soon. Trust me if there was ever time i'd like to be wrong about my statements its now. I want hydrogel to prove me wrong.