Acne.org Products
Yes, Intercytex, Renovo, A-cell/Pig's bladder matrix are all providing different products which have different modes of action intended for scarless/scar-less healing.
Intercytex's research looks interesting but has produced very little results so far as they are in the very early stages of testing. Renovo's Juvista is the most advanced in terms of clinical trials with the drug having been already tested on over 1,500 people; however I am not too impressed with their results. The A-cell/Pig's bladder matrix (as seen on the BBC) is the most impressive; if you can regrow a finger tip without scarring then clearly it should be possible to regrow scar free skin again. I am cautious with A-cell as this is just one person and is very anecdotal since it was not performed under official clinical trial conditions. The positive thing to note is that the matrix is being developed at University of Pittsburgh so it does have reputation backing its claims. I think we are in a wait and see mode for the moment.
Fraxelwaxel, I agree things are progressing quite slowly but they should pick up now with the increased media exposure. At least we have something to be positive about for a change 
.
Remember that evolution caused humans to develop scarring to heal wounds in an emergency, it became a more efficient safety mechanism. Originally humans, it is believed, healed scar-free but it became a time consuming and energy sapping operation, thus scarring was the more efficient alternative. It seems that we still do have the code in our DNA to regenerate scarlessly, but this is more often that not over-written by the code to produce scar tissue and close a wound rapidly. The theory is that this A-cell/Pig's Bladder treatment inhibits the body's signal to lay down scar tissue, therefore paving the way for the signal to regenerate as we used to.
check out the cool animations in the bottom left-hand corner: http://www.intercytex.com/
Does anyone have more info about this company and its products?
Edit - I have the full article of the last link i posted about deliving IL-10 expression. The authors are claiming that they have produced scarless healing in the adult mouse. This is a very interesting development.
They have produced scarless healing in the adult mouse? Woah.
Edit - I have the full article of the last link i posted about deliving IL-10 expression. The authors are claiming that they have produced scarless healing in the adult mouse. This is a very interesting development.
They have produced scarless healing in the adult mouse? Woah.
Yeah but you have to take that with just not one grain of salt, but a whole spoonful. They have been able to regenerate hair growth in mice for years now but haven't been able to make the leap to humans yet.
Still, very promising.
Yes, Intercytex, Renovo, A-cell/Pig's bladder matrix are all providing different products which have different modes of action intended for scarless/scar-less healing.
Intercytex's research looks interesting but has produced very little results so far as they are in the very early stages of testing. Renovo's Juvista is the most advanced in terms of clinical trials with the drug having been already tested on over 1,500 people; however I am not too impressed with their results. The A-cell/Pig's bladder matrix (as seen on the BBC) is the most impressive; if you can regrow a finger tip without scarring then clearly it should be possible to regrow scar free skin again. I am cautious with A-cell as this is just one person and is very anecdotal since it was not performed under official clinical trial conditions. The positive thing to note is that the matrix is being developed at University of Pittsburgh so it does have reputation backing its claims. I think we are in a wait and see mode for the moment.
Fraxelwaxel, I agree things are progressing quite slowly but they should pick up now with the increased media exposure. At least we have something to be positive about for a change
Remember that evolution caused humans to develop scarring to heal wounds in an emergency, it became a more efficient safety mechanism. Originally humans, it is believed, healed scar-free but it became a time consuming and energy sapping operation, thus scarring was the more efficient alternative. It seems that we still do have the code in our DNA to regenerate scarlessly, but this is more often that not over-written by the code to produce scar tissue and close a wound rapidly. The theory is that this A-cell/Pig's Bladder treatment inhibits the body's signal to lay down scar tissue, therefore paving the way for the signal to regenerate as we used to.
Reminds me of an article I read. It was about cavemen during the last ice age. The author thought natural selection favored cavemen who healed their arteries with plaque cholesterol rather than regeneration (aka scarring).
It sounds funny at first but it makes sense. Because to regenerate, the body needs vitamin C to create collagen and tissue. But during the ice age it was mostly a meat diet. So cavemen who could heal micro wounds in their blood vessels with cholesterol would end up more successful. The poor cavemen with the ability to regenerate never got to use it and bred less, all because a lack of fruit and vegetables in the diet!
Which brings up another point. All the great apes (humans included) lost the DNA to manufacture our own Vitamin C. That's right, other mammals make their own. Just like we make Vitamin D. But due to the common ancestry of all simians back to one common ancestor, humans and apes cannot!
It's a miscode in one friggin allele! We still go through 3 out of the 4 steps needed to create Vitamin C within our own bodies. But then the last step doesn't happen and the pre-vitamin C disintegrates. Why can't someone make a genetic patch (like they do for computer games) and then we all get injected with it.
Or even more simple, someone could change an E Coli bacteria into a Vitamin C manufacturer. They've already done this with bacteria to do things like make insulin. Then we just take a capsule of the live bacteria and it flourishes in our gut pumping out a steady stream of Vitamin C!
Interesting post Fraxel, just goes to show the value of evolution and natural selection in having an impact on future generations in the long-term. The Vitamin C situation is quite hilarious displaying how we are quite like a computer; the body (not the mind) still goes through those three first steps despite the fact that past attempts indicate it will fail the fourth during its attempt to manufacture Vitamin C. A computer would do the exact same thing as it's programmed to calculate systematically in steps. A genetic patch/operating system update would be a great idea and I think that's what gene therapy is hoping to achieve.
~~~
On to the bad news...Well this just goes to show that you just can't trust the media at all and why I was so cautious yesterday: a day after posting/reporting the news story about Spievak's regrowing finger with the aid of a pig's bladder matrix, the BBC has now posted this article:
Was the new finger a 'natural' miracle?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7379745.stm
The article basically states that the powder is unlikely to have such regenerative powers; the finger tip, it is claimed by the skeptics, reformed naturally and this won't be the first time that it has happened to someone. Most importantly, listen to Dr. Bed Goldacre's negative assessment of this 'pixie dust', he really slams the whole media exposure and rightly so.
I purposefully suspended my belief when I first heard about Spievak and this powder stuff as it was purely anecdotal and no peer-reviewing had yet taken place; but the fact that the global media has hyped this story at least on three separate occasions over the past year is an absolute disgrace and shows how shoddy journalism has become especially with the invention of 24 hour media news and the desperation for high viewer/readships + hit counts. Basically these people will report anything as long as it gets people clicking/buying papers. At the very least, the BBC should have had a variety of doctors specialised in this field who can provide the layman their thoughts on the issue in question's credibility.
The only positive is that tissue regeneration has become a hot topic.
I'm sorry everyone, it seems like we have to go back to the drawing board grrr.
I wouldn't put a lot of stock in that article NECA. This was only bound to happen. Critics come out of the wood work when a story gets popular attention.
Of course it's not scientifically proven. But that doesn't mean there's nothing to it. Look at all the different companies getting in on the extracellular matrix game. Oh and there ARE scientifically, peer reviewed products out there that use ECM. They're used for patient's with pressure ulcers and diabetic wounds. Even traumatic wounds. They are sheets though, not powder.
Neca, all is not loss. Any publicity is good publicity.
By the way, the US pentagon launched a US$250 million project recently to develop stem cells and other therapies for burn repair, scar-less wound healing, facial reconstruction and limb reconstruction or regeneration.
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/200.../18/2221019.htm
We see there are many companies in the picture now. Intercytex, Renovo, A-cell and now the US government. So basically, its a crazy race. Remember the first step to everything is scarless wound healing. And with the high demand of its value, especially in the plastic surgery department, everyone wants to be the one to get the piece of the pie.
So lets sit back, relax and wait for scarless healing to come.
=)
Hey check out this application of acell to a canine's wound. It looks very impressive, what are your thoughts?
We have one journalist using platitudes shouting one thing, and one the polar opposite, these journalists will go on to study something else they regard as more important, proud that their articles have had the hits using the soundbites...
I still know we are more informed...
It is like the stealers wheels song: we are stuck in the middle with jokers to the left of us and clowns to the right. (I think it goes like that?)
And here is another piece about acell regeneration capabilities,
I'd like to demonstrate to you lot another example of the acell regeneration abilities on a tricky ulcer.
Watch from about 11minutes to 12:30minutes:
We have one journalist using platitudes shouting one thing, and one the polar opposite, these journalists will go on to study something else they regard as more important, proud that their articles have had the hits using the soundbites...
I still know we are more informed...
It is like the stealers wheels song: we are stuck in the middle with jokers to the left of us and clowns to the right. (I think it goes like that?)
And here is another piece about acell regeneration capabilities,
I'd like to demonstrate to you lot another example of the acell regeneration abilities on a tricky ulcer.
Watch from about 11minutes to 12:30minutes:
Great Kirk, that video was extremely informative. Note that it was filmed on feb 2006, so there will be even more developements now, given that it is 2 years since that video. Im quite impressed by the acell powder. BUT, it isnt the magical powder that can fully regenerate our body parts, looking at the picture of the diabetic ulcer, it still looks deformed though theres really a large improvement.
We have one journalist using platitudes shouting one thing, and one the polar opposite, these journalists will go on to study something else they regard as more important, proud that their articles have had the hits using the soundbites...
I still know we are more informed...
It is like the stealers wheels song: we are stuck in the middle with jokers to the left of us and clowns to the right. (I think it goes like that?)
And here is another piece about acell regeneration capabilities,
I'd like to demonstrate to you lot another example of the acell regeneration abilities on a tricky ulcer.
Watch from about 11minutes to 12:30minutes:
Great Kirk, that video was extremely informative. Note that it was filmed on feb 2006, so there will be even more developements now, given that it is 2 years since that video. Im quite impressed by the acell powder. BUT, it isnt the magical powder that can fully regenerate our body parts, looking at the picture of the diabetic ulcer, it still looks deformed though theres really a large improvement.
I can see it is deformed, but I cant see much skin scarring and you've got to think about two things, it is a diabetic ulcer, notoriously difficult to treat; and it is a foot injury, thus there would have been a different course of treatment over time periods for a foot injury compared to a face injury etc. The regeneration on the foot injury is an advance, imagine how you could treat a skin tissue face injury with the right course of treatment with someone who is not late stage diabetic?
To me I reckon ECM material will play a big part in scarless healing, maybe the scaffold will be enhanced with stem cells, saying I've read that stem cells and ECM are complimentary.
Anyway here is an article I've just come across
Here is an exciting quote from that said article:
Edwardsas prediction of the availability of new body parts has coincided with the announcement of a significant advance by Ellen Heber-Katz, a professor at the Wistar Institute, at Penn-sylvania university, and one of the leading experts in regenerative medicine.Yesterday she said her group had discovered the genetic characteristics that produce aoegood-as-new tissuea regeneration in laboratory animals.
This capacity, once activated in the human genome, has the potential to allow bodies to repair by themselves far more severe wounds a including surgical excisions a than is naturally possible. The repair would leave no scarring.
aoeWe are very excited about this,a Heber-Katz said. aoeWe may be able to reactivate this capacity in humans by using drugs.a
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/s...icle3867838.ece
Does her advance have ECM in it?
I'm sorry everyone, it seems like we have to go back to the drawing board grrr.
On the contrary. That article had HEAD HUNTER written all over it...in fact in the first few sentences they were calling it "pixie-dust" in order to debunk it. Yet they never question it's mechanism of action rather they said the finger tip can grow skin so it "looks" regenerated.
Show me scientific evidence that contradicts mechanism of action, and then I will believe it.
Oh and to the Vitamin C peeps. You can believe that it's a fluke of evolution that we don't make vitamin C but are still alive, but I believe we don't make vitamin C because we don't need to because we started getting a lot in our diet (started eating fruits and foods rich in it).
It's more plausible to believe that there was no selective pressure in the making of vitmain C and that those who did not put resources into making vitamin C thrived (since most was obtained via diet) ...than to believe that somehow we slipped through evolutionary cracks and here we are (deficient in a process that is vital).
Yesterday she said her group had discovered the genetic characteristics that produce aoegood-as-new tissuea regeneration in laboratory animals.
This capacity, once activated in the human genome, has the potential to allow bodies to repair by themselves far more severe wounds a including surgical excisions a than is naturally possible. The repair would leave no scarring.
aoeWe are very excited about this,a Heber-Katz said. aoeWe may be able to reactivate this capacity in humans by using drugs.a
OMG.
Thats like one step before we have scarless healing in humans. Also, there was a claim that scarless healing was being able to replicate on adult mouse some posts before this. All the piece of the puzzle fits. You cant tell how excited I am right now!!!
This the link to show mice regenerating heart:
http://www.worldhealth.net/news/it_s_a_mir...e_regrow_hearts
Yesterday she said her group had discovered the genetic characteristics that produce aoegood-as-new tissuea regeneration in laboratory animals.This capacity, once activated in the human genome, has the potential to allow bodies to repair by themselves far more severe wounds a including surgical excisions a than is naturally possible. The repair would leave no scarring.
aoeWe are very excited about this,a Heber-Katz said. aoeWe may be able to reactivate this capacity in humans by using drugs.a
OMG.
Thats like one step before we have scarless healing in humans. Also, there was a claim that scarless healing was being able to replicate on adult mouse some posts before this. All the piece of the puzzle fits. You cant tell how excited I am right now!!!
This the link to show mice regenerating heart:
http://www.worldhealth.net/news/it_s_a_mir...e_regrow_hearts
Link to the recent claim?
Yesterday she said her group had discovered the genetic characteristics that produce aoegood-as-new tissuea regeneration in laboratory animals.This capacity, once activated in the human genome, has the potential to allow bodies to repair by themselves far more severe wounds a including surgical excisions a than is naturally possible. The repair would leave no scarring.
aoeWe are very excited about this,a Heber-Katz said. aoeWe may be able to reactivate this capacity in humans by using drugs.a
OMG.
Thats like one step before we have scarless healing in humans. Also, there was a claim that scarless healing was being able to replicate on adult mouse some posts before this. All the piece of the puzzle fits. You cant tell how excited I am right now!!!
This the link to show mice regenerating heart:
http://www.worldhealth.net/news/it_s_a_mir...e_regrow_hearts
Link to the recent claim?
sorry forgot to quote, its from 2 post before my previous post.
Yesterday she said her group had discovered the genetic characteristics that produce aoegood-as-new tissuea regeneration in laboratory animals.This capacity, once activated in the human genome, has the potential to allow bodies to repair by themselves far more severe wounds a including surgical excisions a than is naturally possible. The repair would leave no scarring.
aoeWe are very excited about this,a Heber-Katz said. aoeWe may be able to reactivate this capacity in humans by using drugs.a
OMG.
Thats like one step before we have scarless healing in humans. Also, there was a claim that scarless healing was being able to replicate on adult mouse some posts before this. All the piece of the puzzle fits. You cant tell how excited I am right now!!!
This the link to show mice regenerating heart:
http://www.worldhealth.net/news/it_s_a_mir...e_regrow_hearts
Link to the recent claim?
It's on page 24 of this thread.
I'm sorry everyone, it seems like we have to go back to the drawing board grrr.
On the contrary. That article had HEAD HUNTER written all over it...in fact in the first few sentences they were calling it "pixie-dust" in order to debunk it. Yet they never question it's mechanism of action rather they said the finger tip can grow skin so it "looks" regenerated.
Show me scientific evidence that contradicts mechanism of action, and then I will believe it.
Oh and to the Vitamin C peeps. You can believe that it's a fluke of evolution that we don't make vitamin C but are still alive, but I believe we don't make vitamin C because we don't need to because we started getting a lot in our diet (started eating fruits and foods rich in it).
It's more plausible to believe that there was no selective pressure in the making of vitmain C and that those who did not put resources into making vitamin C thrived (since most was obtained via diet) ...than to believe that somehow we slipped through evolutionary cracks and here we are (deficient in a process that is vital).
that argument has been debunked from analysis of many mammals who have a diet high in vitamin C and still able to produce their own.
most likely we lost it a long time ago before we were even human. somewhere before man and apes split. only reason to explain why all great apes in different locations also dont have the DNA to produce vitamin C.
Hi guys, I'm new to this board, and haven't been able to figure out a way to create a new thread, so I'm going to add onto this one and someone may kindly direct me how to make a new thread....or you can just disregard this post! But I have a cool concept I've been thinking of regarding scars. We're all waiting for scarless healing, but until then, we can find a way to make the best out of what there is at hand. What I'm talking about is not elimination of scars, but explores high tech methods of concealing the scars. I want this to be a separate thread, because I want input, and I believe it's scientifically possible, and I think there are enough motivated creative minds here to get the ball rolling. So here goes:
We all know makeup is worthless at covering up any kind of real scarring - pits, pores, etc.... But what if there was a spray of some kind that utilized ultra-fine nanofibers (this is just one method I'm exploring) to create some sort of flexible, breathable, non-irritating, waterproof, sweat-proof mesh on the skin that mimicked the texture and light-reflecting qualities of real skin. I don't know how effective it would be for extensive atrophic scarring...I don't know... Of course there are many gaps to be filled in this concept, but I believe that it is scientifically possible, and I'm very seriously considering embarking on a business venture to make it real. I am asking you guys to put your collective minds together to help me make this concept a reality. I'll be consulting with nano-technology firms and biochemical engineers, but I have to get appropriate funding in place before that happens. I'm not making any promises, but I'm trying to let you know that I'm very serious about making this a reality - or at the very least, finding out if it even is a possible reality. It may not be, but I don't think anyone's ever bothered to find out. So while that is brewing, I was wondering if you guys could throw your two cents in on what you think about the concept, and if you have any suggestions, etc.
Things I've already considered, and things for you guys to consider. I'm not a chemist or engineer of any kind, so feel free to correct me along the way if I say anything that's incorrect:
1.) a major challenge would be finding a way to make the fibers lie smooth over an uneven surface - in essence, not falling into the pits or depressions in skin - or simply leveling out to create a smooth surface.
2.) even if the concept was viable, could it be used by a man and not look like makeup? I'm a woman, so it's not a concern, but I intend to find out if various textures can be created using different combinations of materials in the mesh (or whatever you want to call it) itself.
3.) I imagine that a spray would be the best way to create the mesh (it's possible to put tiny fibers into a spray that spray out into a mat of interconnected fibers) as you could layer it, ensuring that sufficient feathering of the borders is created so there's not a clear line of demarcation of where the mesh ends and real skin begins.
4.) How does the mesh adhere to the skin without adhering to anything that touches the mesh. One method I've considered is using a layering of "electrospun" nanofibers. When they're electrospun, they're given a charge. For example, you can spray a mesh of negatively charged nanofibers onto the skin and it will adhere as the skin has a positive charge. However, that single mat of fibers would be so thin that it'd be invisible, and so I surmise there would need to be many layers of fibers (one layer with a negative charge, one layer with a positive charge, so that each layer adheres to the one below it)..... Did I lose you yet?
Another option could be that the mesh has a non-irritating glue-like quality, so that it does stick to the skin, but it is covered with a second layer of nanofibers in order to prevent the mesh from sticking to anything else....
That's all I've got so far. I'd love any and all input. Even if you think it's a pathetic idea. Much thanks in advance for your time.
couldn't find the presentation but maybe a more avid web surfer can:
"VAVELTAA at the IAAFA - April 2008, London
On 12 April 2008, Dr David Eccleston, Intercytex' Principal Investigator for its Phase II clinical trial being conducted at his clinic in Birmingham in acne scarring, presented at the Annual Conference of the International Academy of Advanced Facial Aesthetics.
The website for the IAAFA is www.iaafa.net"
Hey guys I have a question, is it possible that we can have digit regeneration without scarless healing? As in the case of Lee Speviack, he healed his fingertip through regeneration by it left a small scar.
If that is the case, scarless healing might not *gulp* come that early. Though researchers predict finger regeneration to be few years away only.
Thoughts?
Hey guys I have a question, is it possible that we can have digit regeneration without scarless healing? As in the case of Lee Speviack, he healed his fingertip through regeneration by it left a small scar.
If that is the case, scarless healing might not *gulp* come that early. Though researchers predict finger regeneration to be few years away only.
Thoughts?
Hey Tgan, look at the video I posted a few days ago or was it a week ago, look at the impressive skin regeneration on the tricky ulcer on that diabetic foot?
Anyway Speviack healed 98-99% of the skin on his finger with regeneration, but he says himself he ran out of powder, thus was unable to complete the course.
I think you are probably microscopically focusing on the scar which is tiny, and probably forgetting about the regeneration of the whole finger tip... The proportion of regeneration of the skin on the finger is 98% regeneration and no more than lets say 2% scarring at the very tip of the tip and this is without Speviack being able to complete a course...
Hey guys I have a question, is it possible that we can have digit regeneration without scarless healing? As in the case of Lee Speviack, he healed his fingertip through regeneration by it left a small scar.
If that is the case, scarless healing might not *gulp* come that early. Though researchers predict finger regeneration to be few years away only.
Thoughts?
Hey Tgan, look at the video I posted a few days ago or was it a week ago, look at the impressive skin regeneration on the tricky ulcer on that diabetic foot?
Anyway Speviack healed 98-99% of the skin on his finger with regeneration, but he says himself he ran out of powder, thus was unable to complete the course.
I think you are probably microscopically focusing on the scar which is tiny, and probably forgetting about the regeneration of the whole finger tip... The proportion of regeneration of the skin on the finger is 98% regeneration and no more than lets say 2% scarring at the very tip of the tip and this is without Speviack being able to complete a course...
Yes Kirk, But we are talking about scars on our face. Even a small scar left is still unsightly, cosidering acne scars are already small( but obvious ).
Also, my friend made a good point. He asked me whether scarless healing would take a long time to come as there are two barriers to it.
The company/scientist will have to patent the technique, and he told me it will take years before they aprove something. Im not sure though, correct me if im wrong.
Secondly, FDA has to approve it too. He also told me it will take a long time.
Adding it up, it means a really looonnnggg time. BOO HOO!!!