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yes but kirk, the one thing that makes me doubtful is that researching doesnt neccesarily equate to finding a cure that easily. No doubt there is a lot of research going on for scarless healing.
though this article gives me hope...
http://www.worldhealth.net/p/research-brin...2006-10-09.html
this is a quote from the article:
"Regenerative medicine, if driven by a cohesive federal initiative, has the opportunity to begin producing complex skin, cartilage and bone substitutes in as little as five years," it said. "Tissue and organ patches, designed to help regenerate damaged tissues and organs such as the heart and kidneys, are within reach in 10 years. Within 20 years, with appropriate federal funding and direction, the goal of 'tissues on demand' is realistic."
very assuring, but still we have to wait for YEARS, arrgghhh just bare with our scars for a little more kirk...
Tgan I see where you are coming from, but 
I'm still optimistic and I still feel very informed that something is around the corner. They mentioned tissue, Atala has already developed a bladder in the lab... And from my eyes they didn't really elucidate any time limit about scar less healing they just mishmashed bits about scarless healing with complex tissue and bone regeneration and loosely announced that regeneration could be here in 5years (bone for instance and if you read elsewhere they are optimistic they will generate the boney finger of a mouse in three year)... The journalist losely also said 'within' 5 to 10 year, instead of from 5 to 10 year, that means from their knowledge it means either tomorrow to 10years for a line of different treatments involving regeneration.
An Atalla quote: 'regeneration goes back to the scar...' (I don't know if thats his exact quote but I know it is similar)
To me that Atalla quote is an evidential piece in a jig-saw with a past tense meaning if you like. Sort out scarring in past tense then regenerate the complex tissues...
I'm still very optimistic and I feel I'm more informed than that journalist. I suspect scarless healing is already here.
although its almost certain that altered signaling from extracellular wound environment would modulate the behaviour of the fibroblasts, we arent even sure completely what the signals are. Im sure there are some unknowns for perfect skin regeneration that has yet to be discovered.
Well that's the beauty of it... Even though it is extremely helpful, we do not need to know what these signals are before we find ways to manipulate them. In fact ways we discover unknowns in signal pathways or biochemical pathways is because we stumble on ways to prevent them from occurring or ways to increase them. Therefore we could come up with a way to stop the scarring pathway BEFORE actually figuring out all the players in it.
Also to kirk: I also think the matrix way is the way to go as well. They say that scar-free healing is necessary but may not be sufficient. I just want to know for sure that if you can prevent a wound from scarring that the dermis may have an intrinsic ability to regenerate. That is debatable, some people say no the dermis does not regenerate while others do. I'm hoping that the dermis can regenerate on its own if it is not blocked by scarring....and we will not know that until scarring can be blocked 100% ...even if it is minimized to 99% that 1% scarring on the order of a micron thickness could be enough to stop an intrinsic regeneration event.
I think some good news on the ECM front is that they are now successfully able to formulate Acell in to a gel...an injectable gel that will provide three dimensional treatment....I wonder what would happen if you injected an acne scar with TCA and then after the acid had neutralized injected the wound with Acell gel? If I were a researcher trying to find a cure for acne scars I think this would be a method I would test.
Tgan I see where you are coming from, but
It makes me wonder, if they are already able to develop a bladder in a lab and reintroduce it into the patients' bodies. Why cant they do it with the skin? Isnt the skin a less complex organ compared to the bladder? Or is it because the skin is an external organ, thus posing some problems?
There is a webcast on the Renovo site. It shows pictures of a scar healing with Juvista over a seven month period. The scars is moderately better than the control, but still leaves a large scar.
It's an improvement. But no where near scar less healing.
Hey fraxelwaxel, you are correct. But, i dont think juvista is the one which will provide scarless healing. The ones to look out for are badylak's/ DAPRA trying to regenerate limbs, thus before figuring out how to regenerate the limbs/digits, they have to have scarless healing. It also can come in the form of gene therapy, by finding out the genes of the mrl mouse which suppresses the scar tissue and the applying to us.
Overall the prospects of scarless healing are very good, most researchers give the timeframe of 2008(this year) to 2013 which it will occur. I myself hope that it would be in the sooner range.
Also to kirk: I also think the matrix way is the way to go as well. They say that scar-free healing is necessary but may not be sufficient. I just want to know for sure that if you can prevent a wound from scarring that the dermis may have an intrinsic ability to regenerate. That is debatable, some people say no the dermis does not regenerate while others do. I'm hoping that the dermis can regenerate on its own if it is not blocked by scarring....and we will not know that until scarring can be blocked 100% ...even if it is minimized to 99% that 1% scarring on the order of a micron thickness could be enough to stop an intrinsic regeneration event.
Hopeseed, this is my thinking, I reckon if you close off the scarring response and you dont get infection then the wound will regenerate using its maintainance program it uses around our own extracelluar matrix to keep the texture of our skin during our lives if say we are unwounded. But it would be a slow crawling basket weave, where the two ends of the full thickness wound would attach themselves to the opposing matrix in both ends.
And I reckon this is the similar response would get with pig ECM, I reckon because it is an extracelluar matrix, the instructions for regeneration are already in. But this response would be quicker.
It makes me wonder, if they are already able to develop a bladder in a lab and reintroduce it into the patients' bodies. Why cant they do it with the skin? Isnt the skin a less complex organ compared to the bladder? Or is it because the skin is an external organ, thus posing some problems?
Tgan, this is one reason why I wonder and try to research, there is something not quite fitting there
Anyway I would like to show all you guys who contribute to this thread, Hopeseed, Tgan, Tom_Mason, Fraxel, January31, Damn, Anna et al a thread I found last night researching Acell. It is on some hair website and they all seem very excited with Acell.
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/FORUMS/message...amp;STARTPAGE=1
Also to kirk: I also think the matrix way is the way to go as well. They say that scar-free healing is necessary but may not be sufficient. I just want to know for sure that if you can prevent a wound from scarring that the dermis may have an intrinsic ability to regenerate. That is debatable, some people say no the dermis does not regenerate while others do. I'm hoping that the dermis can regenerate on its own if it is not blocked by scarring....and we will not know that until scarring can be blocked 100% ...even if it is minimized to 99% that 1% scarring on the order of a micron thickness could be enough to stop an intrinsic regeneration event.
Hopeseed, this is my thinking, I reckon if you close off the scarring response and you dont get infection then the wound will regenerate using its maintainance program it uses around our own extracelluar matrix to keep the texture of our skin during our lives if say we are unwounded. But it would be a slow crawling basket weave, where the two ends of the full thickness wound would attach themselves to the opposing matrix in both ends.
And I reckon this is the similar response would get with pig ECM, I reckon because it is an extracelluar matrix, the instructions for regeneration are already in. But this response would be quicker.
It makes me wonder, if they are already able to develop a bladder in a lab and reintroduce it into the patients' bodies. Why cant they do it with the skin? Isnt the skin a less complex organ compared to the bladder? Or is it because the skin is an external organ, thus posing some problems?
Tgan, this is one reason why I wonder and try to research, there is something not quite fitting there
Anyway I would like to show all you guys who contribute to this thread, Hopeseed, Tgan, Tom_Mason, Fraxel, January31, Damn, Anna et al a thread I found last night researching Acell. It is on some hair website and they all seem very excited with Acell.
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/FORUMS/message...amp;STARTPAGE=1
Few things:
I don't think the skin is any less complex of an organ than a bladder. Infact the skin is very complex and has a lot of different components in it. What I don't understand is why they can't regenerate something that looks like skin, even if it doesn't have all the functions of skin (like sweat glands, hair follicles, etc). I don't think we too concerned about function where our scars are, we just want it to LOOK like the surrounding skin. Skin LOOKS simple enough, hopefully obtaining a skin THAT LOOKS normal shouldn't be that hard.
I'm actually BOTHERED by the fact that a lot of different groups are getting excited about it. It makes me think that the marketing team at Acell is doing a very good job as promoting it as a cure all for everything. It is unlikely this thing is a magic bullet for everything under regeneration. I really don't think it will be helpful in the plight of those bald men because it's not that they are missing hair follicles its the fact that the ones they have are going through the cycle so fast that when the hair is very small and tiny (almost impossible to see) it falls out and is replaced by another tiny hair. Maybe if their follicles were destroyed and acell was applied it would make new hair follicles but those follicles may do the same thing.
Anyways I am real close to writing the Acell people and asking them if they think it will be helpful in our plight and what kind of procedure they think would happen.
Hell they are based 20 mins away from me, I might even volunteer myself!
Few things:
I don't think the skin is any less complex of an organ than a bladder. Infact the skin is very complex and has a lot of different components in it. What I don't understand is why they can't regenerate something that looks like skin, even if it doesn't have all the functions of skin (like sweat glands, hair follicles, etc). I don't think we too concerned about function where our scars are, we just want it to LOOK like the surrounding skin. Skin LOOKS simple enough, hopefully obtaining a skin THAT LOOKS normal shouldn't be that hard.
I beg to differ, researchers always say the first step to regeneration is the skin, before moving on to the more complex things like a digit or organ. Also, atrophic scars do have sweat glands and hair follicles. Hypertrophic scars do not have them...
Anyways I am real close to writing the Acell people and asking them if they think it will be helpful in our plight and what kind of procedure they think would happen.
Hell they are based 20 mins away from me, I might even volunteer myself!
Please do go and volunteer, being a person who have facial scarring, you would do all means to get the best results...
Also to kirk: I also think the matrix way is the way to go as well. They say that scar-free healing is necessary but may not be sufficient. I just want to know for sure that if you can prevent a wound from scarring that the dermis may have an intrinsic ability to regenerate. That is debatable, some people say no the dermis does not regenerate while others do. I'm hoping that the dermis can regenerate on its own if it is not blocked by scarring....and we will not know that until scarring can be blocked 100% ...even if it is minimized to 99% that 1% scarring on the order of a micron thickness could be enough to stop an intrinsic regeneration event.
Hopeseed, this is my thinking, I reckon if you close off the scarring response and you dont get infection then the wound will regenerate using its maintainance program it uses around our own extracelluar matrix to keep the texture of our skin during our lives if say we are unwounded. But it would be a slow crawling basket weave, where the two ends of the full thickness wound would attach themselves to the opposing matrix in both ends.
And I reckon this is the similar response would get with pig ECM, I reckon because it is an extracelluar matrix, the instructions for regeneration are already in. But this response would be quicker.
It makes me wonder, if they are already able to develop a bladder in a lab and reintroduce it into the patients' bodies. Why cant they do it with the skin? Isnt the skin a less complex organ compared to the bladder? Or is it because the skin is an external organ, thus posing some problems?
Tgan, this is one reason why I wonder and try to research, there is something not quite fitting there
Anyway I would like to show all you guys who contribute to this thread, Hopeseed, Tgan, Tom_Mason, Fraxel, January31, Damn, Anna et al a thread I found last night researching Acell. It is on some hair website and they all seem very excited with Acell.
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/FORUMS/message...amp;STARTPAGE=1
Few things:
I don't think the skin is any less complex of an organ than a bladder. Infact the skin is very complex and has a lot of different components in it. What I don't understand is why they can't regenerate something that looks like skin, even if it doesn't have all the functions of skin (like sweat glands, hair follicles, etc). I don't think we too concerned about function where our scars are, we just want it to LOOK like the surrounding skin. Skin LOOKS simple enough, hopefully obtaining a skin THAT LOOKS normal shouldn't be that hard.
I'm actually BOTHERED by the fact that a lot of different groups are getting excited about it. It makes me think that the marketing team at Acell is doing a very good job as promoting it as a cure all for everything. It is unlikely this thing is a magic bullet for everything under regeneration. I really don't think it will be helpful in the plight of those bald men because it's not that they are missing hair follicles its the fact that the ones they have are going through the cycle so fast that when the hair is very small and tiny (almost impossible to see) it falls out and is replaced by another tiny hair. Maybe if their follicles were destroyed and acell was applied it would make new hair follicles but those follicles may do the same thing.
Anyways I am real close to writing the Acell people and asking them if they think it will be helpful in our plight and what kind of procedure they think would happen.
Hell they are based 20 mins away from me, I might even volunteer myself!
Hopeseed I think we have interpreted slightly differently, you seem to think that they are talking about it for different uses which bothers you, but I percieve them as talking about it with the use of removing scarring; they only see acell as a specific for scarring.
From my perception of the developement of the thread, I thought it was interesting because they are talking about acell for scarring instead of hair regeneration on a hair website... It looks like they are talking about it currently removing scarring which fits in with our facial scarring, body scarring etc. (Put this with that person on that skin website I linked a few weeks ago who got rid of his stretch marks, alongside our discussions...)
I think the acell conscensus developing on that thread is something to do with scars on previous operations that they may have had and they acknowledge that they might not get hair. Though some after looking at the fur regeneration on the acell site, think it might regenerate hair.
Also what caught my eye was it seems like they want to arrange something to try it on a type of scar revision...
Anyways I am real close to writing the Acell people and asking them if they think it will be helpful in our plight and what kind of procedure they think would happen.
Hell they are based 20 mins away from me, I might even volunteer myself!
Anyway if you do get to use it please keep us updated.
I beg to differ, researchers always say the first step to regeneration is the skin
Just because it is the first step doesn't mean it is either easier or harder to generate. Yes, it's the first step if you want to regenerate a digit, but it doesn't mean it's any easier. The skin is not a simple organ.
Hopeseed I think we have interpreted slightly differently, you seem to think that they are talking about it for different uses which bothers you, but I percieve them as talking about it with the use of removing scarring; they only see acell as a specific for scarring.
Yeah that may be true, I might be just focusing on those that are not as informed. There are people there thinking that if they slap this stuff on their scalp it will regenerate their hair.
Either way, it does seem like we have a common goal with those folks, and if they want to throw money at it I'd be happy to join them.
What bothers me with Acell is that it's been out for a while and... you would just think that a vet might see a dog or a cat or some other animal that needed a digit or part of a tail amputated and you would THINK that maybe the vet would try Acell and see if it could regenerate it but...we've heard no reports of that ...and it would seem likely that someone has tried ...maybe they have failed.
What bothers me with Acell is that it's been out for a while and... you would just think that a vet might see a dog or a cat or some other animal that needed a digit or part of a tail amputated and you would THINK that maybe the vet would try Acell and see if it could regenerate it but...we've heard no reports of that ...and it would seem likely that someone has tried ...maybe they have failed.
If you look on the acell site you can see examples of regeneration, obviously though animals don't need to apply the matrix as vigourously as humans.
I wonder what the secret compound is that they talk about in this video, could it be extra cellular matrix material?
Regarding the video,
On the video the lass mentions growth factors, but I think she is wrong, because growth factors don't have an off and on switch... I could imagine there will be some signalling going on to get the hair to grow, and growth factors on their own can't do that.
My hunch is it is probably a matrix which has repair signalling mechanisms. And it is maybe some particular extracted organic mix saying it seems they came about it by accident and were perhaps(???) not manipulating man made compounds to look for that particular solution.
What ever it is, it is only a few years away from the human use and I can imagine if you can regenerate hair growth by wounding then I could imagine it would be much easier to get skin regeneration by wounding...
another interesting article to add to this data base we have compiled here
holy crap!? gene thearpy for the prevention of scars?
Edit - I have the full article of the last link i posted about deliving IL-10 expression. The authors are claiming that they have produced scarless healing in the adult mouse. This is a very interesting development.
can someone provide a plain english translation of what DOT cells are??
From what I gather, DOT cells are these specific cells that express certain genes. The fetus has 20 times more DOT cells than an adult. DOT cells are involved in generation and healing, so what they suspect is that DOT cells are responsible for less of a scar in the fetus. This is interesting because adults do not have an absence of DOT cells but they have a lower count. So it may be possible to up the DOT count in an adult to recreate a fetal scarless environment. However this is banking on if DOT cells behave the same like they do in the fetus in the adult.
Well the media coverage of regenerative healing has finally entered overdrive
The BBC is running the Acell/Pig's Bladder story on its main page; within minutes it became the most read/emailed story on the site:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7354458.stm
It's also carrying the story on its news channel!
This is all great news for us guys awaiting scarless healing treatments as more news attention means more interest in regenerative healing which should increase competition and funding in this area. Moreover, I'm sure being the first person/company to release a product on the market that effectively regenerates body tissues is likely to get a lot of venture capitalists' hearts racing.
But I am treating the story with slight caution as I'm not totally convinced by Acell yet; Lee Spievak's story has been regurgitated by various news media over the past year or so, surely within that time they could produce other examples of Acell's power/potential? [On a side note, Spievak claims he lost the tip of his finger when it was cut off by the model plane's propellar blade in his shop...can it be that easy to lose a finger tip, lol?].
At least this should give Ferguson and Renovo a kick up the backside and convince them to release Juvista and Juvidex as a single combined product, especially since their trial results' pictures have not been that amazing in terms of scar reduction.
Anyway onwards and upwards guys and girls .
Volunteer? Hell yeah, it's a great idea...you will be actively involved in helping to bring about change to millions of people scarred physically and emotionally; that's a great feeling to have. There are, like with all things, certain risks involved of course, but it's for you to judge what you would like and not like to do.
Which research trials are you referring to Joe? Juvista?
PS The BBC Pig's Bladder finger-tip growing story has also hit the front page of www.digg.com, more exposure...yes!
this kind of stuff is the main reason i haven't committed suicide. it's almost too painful to watch how slowly it progresses though.
check out the cool animations in the bottom left-hand corner: http://www.intercytex.com/