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["These developmentally related differences in fibroblast response to TGF-beta1 may influence wound-healing outcome, i.e., perfect regeneration or fibrosis."
i think you meant "of fibrosis" instead of "or"...
very interesting too, might that 2011 dateline really pains me( another 3-4 years )??....
HI Anna - thank you for the smoothie recipe! I've been enjoying it since you posted it before. sheryl
You are welcome sheryllynn! Addictive aren't they?
Ok, but don't purchase it ...it's at my school's library I believe so if I need to I can grab it and photocopy it and scan it. There is just a 12 month delay on the electronic versions. I'm not sure of my school carries the journal that the review is from though.
I'll sit tight and my fingers are crossed!
Hey nice link u hav there hopeseed!!! At least its conforting to know that these guys are working towards our ultimate goal, that is perfect regeneration of the tissue cells. How long will it take is another question, its prolly got to take at least another 10-20 years. What im hoping for is a better skin substitute that can at least minimize scarring to an acceptable level first...
Hey nice link u hav there hopeseed!!! At least its conforting to know that these guys are working towards our ultimate goal, that is perfect regeneration of the tissue cells. How long will it take is another question, its prolly got to take at least another 10-20 years. What im hoping for is a better skin substitute that can at least minimize scarring to an acceptable level first...
Exactly. The holy grail is perfect regeneration, but what if we could get skin grafts to perfectly assimilate? While regeneration is AN ANSWER it might not be THE ONLY answer to having near perfect results. We might be actually closer in getting grafts that integrate almost seamlessly. I certainly would not mind getting grafting done if the skin could perfectly assimilate to where it is suppose to be grafted leaving very minimal scar lines. I'm hoping Juvista is all that they claim it is and will help for such an indication. There is also a lot of research going on trying to get grafts to assimilate better.
another interesting article I would like to add
Platelet gel stimulates proliferation of human dermal fibroblasts in vitro.
Krasna M, DomanoviA D, Tomsic A, Svajger U, Jeras M.
Department for Blood Supply, Blood Transfusion Center of Slovenia, Slajmerjeva 6, 1000 Ljubljana, Slovenia. [email protected]
BACKGROUND: Platelet gel is a source of many soluble proteins that can modulate tissue regeneration. Dermal fibroblasts play an important role in tissue remodeling and wound healing. OBJECTIVE: The study was performed to investigate the influence of platelet gel and its active ingredients on the proliferation of human dermal fibroblasts in vitro. METHODS: A fibroblast culture was established from a normal human skin biopsy. Platelet gel was prepared from platelet-rich plasma (PRP) following the addition of calcified thrombin solution. Cell proliferation was measured by MTT assay. RESULTS: We showed that platelet gel, PRP, and thrombin stimulate the proliferation of dermal fibroblasts, and that stimulation by PRP is dose dependent. CONCLUSION: Platelet gel can be used to treat chronic skin defects.
Now this is just a WILD theory, but I know the atrophy that we have in our scars is due to the fact that dermal fibroblasts could not get through the scar tissue and migrate where they needed to be. But what would happen over time if you constantly put a signal to tell the fibroblast that did get through to proliferate?
More of an insight in to the mechanics of scarless healing?
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/200...d-nmi121707.php
More of an insight in to the mechanics of scarless healing?
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/200...d-nmi121707.php
Yes, very interesting:
"With experiments using novel cell culture substrates of varying rigidity, they found that at a certain point, the matrix is sufficiently rigid that cell-exerted force allows the growth factor to pop out, like candy from a wrapper. Once the growth factor is available, the fibroblast expresses the contractile proteins, sticks more firmly to the matrix and starts to contract, pulling the matrix tightly together. In the process it liberates yet more growth factor that in turn stimulates other fibroblasts to become contractile. The mechanical nature of the switch ensures that the contraction only develops when the matrix is "ready."
So, what I take this to say is the stiffness and lack of elasticity created by the fibrous bands comes to a tipping point and then the wound starts to contract, sometimes where it pulls and distorts the healthy tissue around it. This explains why pressure bandages work and skin softeners such as the mannose 6 phosphate in aloe vera as well as enzymes such as papain in papaya minimize contracting scars. These methods work mechanically and chemically respectively. If you can prevent the scar from reaching the point of critical rigidity you can prevent contraction. This is really important for burn scars.
Interesting post hopeseed! IF they could get through, and were given insistent signals to proliferate I wonder then how long it would take for defects to fill in? At some point, would the scar tissue atrophy and fall away??
I guess it depends if these signals also tell the scar tissue to proliferate as well. In that case it wouldn't do much good. However if it is selective then who knows how long it would take. I know it takes 9 months for a single cell that is getting constant proliferation signals to turn into an 8 lb baby ...that must be a good sign!
More of an insight in to the mechanics of scarless healing?
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/200...d-nmi121707.php
So I wonder if in an embryo if the cells don't become tight and rigid and so don't release the growth factor linked to scarring or that they can become tight and rigid to help close the wound but at the same time don't release the TGF-B that is in high levels in adult scarring. Maybe it's a combination.
addition of two interesting links:
http://www.slate.com/id/2180956/
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articl...wire/132996.htm
Interesting post hopeseed! IF they could get through, and were given insistent signals to proliferate I wonder then how long it would take for defects to fill in? At some point, would the scar tissue atrophy and fall away??
I guess it depends if these signals also tell the scar tissue to proliferate as well. In that case it wouldn't do much good. However if it is selective then who knows how long it would take. I know it takes 9 months for a single cell that is getting constant proliferation signals to turn into an 8 lb baby ...that must be a good sign!
i think the proliferation slows way down after the embryo is formed. i watched a special on the miracle of life. it said that if the proliferation continued at that rate the newborn would be the size of a skyscraper or whale or something like that, cant remember
Interesting post hopeseed! IF they could get through, and were given insistent signals to proliferate I wonder then how long it would take for defects to fill in? At some point, would the scar tissue atrophy and fall away??
I guess it depends if these signals also tell the scar tissue to proliferate as well. In that case it wouldn't do much good. However if it is selective then who knows how long it would take. I know it takes 9 months for a single cell that is getting constant proliferation signals to turn into an 8 lb baby ...that must be a good sign!
i think the proliferation slows way down after the embryo is formed. i watched a special on the miracle of life. it said that if the proliferation continued at that rate the newborn would be the size of a skyscraper or whale or something like that, cant remember
I meant that if AFTER having been blocked by scar tissue for so long the signals to REGENERATE could get through. My understanding is that at the point the healthy tissue is replaced the body would stop sensing the need for scar tissue as it did at the time of injury and it would simply flake away as dead tissue. I've read that if you could block the scar tissue for long enough the dermis and any missing underlying tissue could regenerate. This is entirely different than proliferation without boundaries...like a cancer. Who knows though...once this is closer to reality there could be a conflict. I certainly hope not!
Interesting. I've thought about this too, in less sophisticated terms.
Could it be a problem that an old mass of scar tissue is poorly vascularized? It also lacks lymph and others important systems. The center of the scar would be unable to receive nutrients or cell mediated factors. It also wouldn't respond to them since its just fibrous collagen with little cell activity.
This would mean that any natural regeneration has to come inwards from the outside boundary of the scar. Not just at the wound edges but from underneath as well.
If the wound is full thickness through the dermis, this would present a challenge. The skin/blastoma would have to invaginate the depth of this area entirely before the scar could flake off.
That would mean the inhibiting chemicals would have to be delivered by needle to areas under the scar, right at the scar/dermis border. Not such an easy task.
Though perhaps surgical excision of scar tissue first would eliminate that problem.
Perhaps one day it might be as simple as this:
First surgical excision takes place where the entire scar is removed along with a healthy lining of normal tissue (Just like Moh's microscopic surgery for cancer to make sure they get all the cancer).
Second, a pre-grown allograft containing an inhibiting matrix, fibroblasts, growth factors factors, etc. is placed on the open wound.
Third, the body forms a blastoma underneath or over the allograft.
Perhaps the allograft also contains some kind of special tubing with a catheter lock at the end that will allow access for IV push drugs to be delivered to the underlying margin of the blastoma. To ensure that there is a constant flow of chemicals blocking scar tissue from forming.
The tubes are then pulled or dissolve naturally after a period of time. The process can even be repeated for each layer of tissue that needs regenerating. For instance one allograft w/ tubing for muscle, a second for fat/dermis, a third for upper skin.
Larger scars could also be divided and done in portions. This would be helpful in maximizing comfort and function for patients with extensive tissue loss. So they don't have a huge blastoma, but several smaller ones done in stages.
All this would also primarily be geared towards preventing infection. I'd imagine the risk for infection would be greater when trying to regenerate a large swath of skin, versus an arm or leg. Simply because of the larger area involved.
For instance, a missing arm or leg with a healing blastoma would have an area at risk the diameter of the limb. But that same limb with a major burn covering most of the skin would have a much larger area at risk for infection. Not so much a problem for acne scars though since they are spotty.
A new treatment that can remove? improve scarring?
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/93071.php
This is a quote from the article:
A few days later, it is already possible to see whether the new skin has adhered to the wound. 72 days later, the grafted skin can no longer be distinguished from healthy skin.
sounds very amazing, although i wont be too happy just yet. What do you guys think?
i think the proliferation slows way down after the embryo is formed. i watched a special on the miracle of life. it said that if the proliferation continued at that rate the newborn would be the size of a skyscraper or whale or something like that, cant remember
Yeah I understand that but what I'm trying to say is what if you could reverse this slowing of proliferation by adding the right combination of growth factors and transcription factors? If it takes 9 months for a single cell to turn into a baby with trillions of cells then how long would it take for just an area of the dermis to be replaced...a few days...a week?
A new treatment that can remove? improve scarring?
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/93071.php
This is a quote from the article:
A few days later, it is already possible to see whether the new skin has adhered to the wound. 72 days later, the grafted skin can no longer be distinguished from healthy skin.
sounds very amazing, although i wont be too happy just yet. What do you guys think?
This is what I believe to be an avenue that I think a lot of people on here overlook because it isn't regeneration ...but I believe it is a viable front runner for a solution. I wonder if the skin they grafted was just the epidermis or if it was deeper. Acne scars are a defect in the dermis so a perfect graft would need to replace the dermis not just the epidermis.
Quick edit: Here is an interesting article due out Jan 14th. Also names some doctors doing current research ...maybe they would answer some of our questions?
Another article about this technique.
Quote:
People with scars on the face and other exposed parts of the body will no longer face any embarrassment from those ugly marks and they will no longer need to undergo painful skin grafting, where a slice of the thigh skin is removed to cover the scars.
so it can be used for facial scarring, but how effective will it be?
i think the proliferation slows way down after the embryo is formed. i watched a special on the miracle of life. it said that if the proliferation continued at that rate the newborn would be the size of a skyscraper or whale or something like that, cant remember
Yeah I understand that but what I'm trying to say is what if you could reverse this slowing of proliferation by adding the right combination of growth factors and transcription factors? If it takes 9 months for a single cell to turn into a baby with trillions of cells then how long would it take for just an area of the dermis to be replaced...a few days...a week?
A new treatment that can remove? improve scarring?
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/93071.php
This is a quote from the article:
A few days later, it is already possible to see whether the new skin has adhered to the wound. 72 days later, the grafted skin can no longer be distinguished from healthy skin.
sounds very amazing, although i wont be too happy just yet. What do you guys think?
This is what I believe to be an avenue that I think a lot of people on here overlook because it isn't regeneration ...but I believe it is a viable front runner for a solution. I wonder if the skin they grafted was just the epidermis or if it was deeper. Acne scars are a defect in the dermis so a perfect graft would need to replace the dermis not just the epidermis.
Quick edit: Here is an interesting article due out Jan 14th. Also names some doctors doing current research ...maybe they would answer some of our questions?
It wouldn't take long at all! After the embryo is formed, cell proliferation slows way down for the rest of the 8 months of pregnancy. If the regeneration "powers" from the first month of a fetus could be harnessed we could grow tissue extremely fast at an exponential rate.
Another interesting fact is that up to a certain point in the life of a fetus, the fetus can regrow an entire arm or leg if it is amputated. And it can do so without scarring. In fact, when they perform in-womb operations on the fetus the skin heals so perfectly the baby is born with no scars.
Another article about this technique.
Quote:
People with scars on the face and other exposed parts of the body will no longer face any embarrassment from those ugly marks and they will no longer need to undergo painful skin grafting, where a slice of the thigh skin is removed to cover the scars.
so it can be used for facial scarring, but how effective will it be?
link please
Also to Anna: My reply to your message got deleted due to the hack but I didn't beat you to it because tgan3 posted the same link in this thread at the same time he posted the other thread. Let's just hope they are successful at grafting from the dermal layer and above and not just the epidermis. Since our defects are in our dermis we need perfect assimilation of a graft that contains new dermis. Please post the pictures if they send them to you and ask which layers they are most successful at doing!
http://www.scienceahead.com/entry/epidex-g...rom-hair-roots/
sorry, i think i did include the link earlier on but it somehow didnt appear.
http://www.scienceahead.com/entry/epidex-g...rom-hair-roots/
sorry, i think i did include the link earlier on but it somehow didnt appear.
I'm starting to doubt it already....I googled EpiDex and the various links say that EpiDex grows the epidermal layer ...the pits on our faces are due to a defect in the dermis. Maybe ablation by a laser and then this grafting procedure would work but.....I really have no clue. I guess what we really have to do is contact the docs doing the research and ask if they think it will be helpful in our plight.