I should add...I own one of the two biofeedback machines I've been hooked up to. Everytime I scan, and I observe pituitary hypothalamus region, guess which 3 b vitamins always appear as deficient. You guessed it. B1, B2, and b12. Guess how many times these vitamins have appeared in the machines recommended supplements category. ZERO. The machine is smart enough to realize that isolated b1 B2 and b12 would do me more harm than good. Out of frustration, one day I decided to try an experiment. I took a b1 b 2 and methyl b12, scanned an hour later. Still low. Took one of each again, scanned an hour later. Still low. Took one of each again, scanned an hour later. Still low. I did this every hour for damn near 8 hours, and I was feeling progressively worse, and it didn't put a dent in the b1 B2 or b12 deficiencies.

The machine recognizes there is an issue with b1 B2 and b12, but it does not want to solve the problem with those vitamin isolates. I believe the issue with these three vitamins can and needs to be circumvented with a wholesome natural adaptogen such as astragalus, combined with whole food beta carotene and dha sources.

I have no issues taking palmitate but definitely don't take beta carotene, Ive read it can become the opposite to vitamin A and cause cancer at high levels, it this info Ive read wrong?

The other thing that needs to be factored-in is the damage Accutane did in of itself to gut lining.We can debate Vit levels and detox pathways all day long - theres merit in both arguments

What about how it wreaks havoc on gut lining and can cause malabsorption issues- we have to fix that too yeah before we should look at Vit levels etc

This is where my reflux issues stem from we think. DuringMondays session with kinesiologist we untwisted my stomach and diaphragm area which was uncomfortable to do but necessary

He also has me taking Potentised Visceral Polarity to keep it untwisted

Im not saying every victim has these gut issues but Im guessingplenty do!!

Cal, you're very lucky to be able to tolerate palmitate. Palmitate is like poison to me, as is natural beta carotene pills, since natural beta carotene pills are loaded with anti Androgenic xanthines besides beta carotene. Synthetic beta carotene stimulates a massive dopamine loss. Synthetic beta carotene pills can cause cancer.

Good point on the gut tj. I tried the beef intestines when it became available back in September on Amazon, and it did help somewhat, but it wasn't the magic bullet I was hoping it would be. Its been extremely helpful for a lot of other ppl though, based on the stellar Amazon reviews for it.

I believe vitamin A is crucial for healthy gut lining. Google search vitamin A gut lining and you'll see a strong relationship.

I can't stress enough. Isolated synthetic vitamins, minerals, amino acids, fatty acids are more poison to us than they are benefit. We need WHOLE FOOD NUTRITION. Whole food beta carotene sources. Whole food dha sources. Not standardized extracts, but Whole herb adaptogenic herbs that can restore dna telomere activity and promote lymphatic drainage. Astragalus root does these two things. I'm doing a program starting today with daily organic carrot juice, albacore tuna, non GMO whole grains for Butyrate production, with astragalus root and nori seaweed capsules.

Our bodies are extremely yin thanks to accutane. Most ppl in the modern world are far too yin. Yang people are rare in the toxic modern world. Pro athletes are all yang individuals. Cancer patients and anyone with chronic illness are all yin people.

Astragalus is a yang herb because it is warming to the body, which our post chemo cold yin bodies need. Nori seaweed is a warming yang whole food. Meat and dairy are yang foods. Sugar is yin. Synthetic isolated vitamins and minerals are yin. Coffee is yang, so I'm going with instant decaf since caffeine is no good for us. Canned cherries are a yang fruit. Bananas are very yin. Green tea is yin, especially if it's sweetened. The idea is to load up on yang and avoid yin as much as possible, while getting plenty of whole food beta carotene and dha.

@Aaron76 can you explain what you mean by fells like poison, like does it make you vomit or something?

Palmitate doesn't cause nausea, but it does cause extreme agitation, mentally and physically, like my brain wants to explode. Same effect from whole beef liver or cod liver oil. I never get this from carrot juice or sweet potatoes. Those things make me feel somewhat better, but not much.

I'm sorry to say I've abandoned the astragalus and nori in favor of organic garlic capsules, 9 daily, with a diet rich in whole food beta carotene, meat, whole organic dairy including milk and cheese, non GMO whole grains excluding oats, and cooked yang fruits. Why not oats? Because oats are high in soluble fiber, which I believe is bad for us. I believe it's insoluble fiber that our guts need more of, which is found in corn, rice, and wheat. Soluble fiber lowers cholesterol, which lowers testosterone. Insoluble fiber does not do this. Insoluble fiber leaves your hormones untouched.

I think the microbiome is a major factor for everyone here. Garlic is known to kill all kinds of bad guys, and acts as a prebiotic for the good guys. Will see how it goes over the coming week.

13 hours ago, Aaron76 said:

How is b1 B2 b12 working for you? You've been at it with them for how long, and no success?

Have I been dong them long term no, but have testing many times during over the years, and yep they don't work, when overloaded with vitamin A. B1, B2 and B12 supps need VA excreting/dumping out of the system to start working. Iodine, selenium and molybdenum are required to activate B2, without active B2, there is no active B1 or methylated B12. Accutane damages this cascade, excess beta carotene or retins will keep this cascade turned off.

The cascade you refer to may possibly be controlled by the microbiome. Will report results in the coming week(s).

9 hours ago, under_tow said:

Have I been dong them long term no, but have testing many times during over the years, and yep they don't work, when overloaded with vitamin A. B1, B2 and B12 supps need VA excreting/dumping out of the system to start working. Iodine, selenium and molybdenum are required to activate B2, without active B2, there is no active B1 or methylated B12. Accutane damages this cascade, excess beta carotene or retins will keep this cascade turned off.

How do you test these levels, via blood test is it?

Im relying on kinesiologist which isnt as comprehensive as blood work but Ive done my fair share of blood work over the years so happy just to be muscle tested until further notice I guess

Its interesting though knowing if B vitamins are effective or not, most of my persistent long term issues are energy related

The better days are when you feel more energy thats for sure!!

@TrueJustice Testing Bs is best done in both blood and urine.

Here is a very good discussion on how when our gut biome is acting normally it creates all 8 B vitamins in the right ratios on its own from our food.

I think retinoic acid either provided from a high vitamin A diet or accutane disrupts this function, removing vitamin A from the diet(and stopping accutane if taking it) and supplementing with correct minerals and Bs for a period of time help kickstart this.

https://b12oils.com/rnb.htm

Molybdenum is key here, it is part of the enzymes to convert retinyldehyde to retinoic acid for vitamin A excretion via glucuronidation, and also part of the enzymes to activate B2.

On top of all this would be vitamin D that opposes vitamin A, best to get it from sunlight, but in winter low dose supplement could be helpful. Vitamin D is discussed in the youtube link.

I was wrong about the astragalus. I believe organic garlic capsules, 3-9 daily, are the key to recovery. Garlic kills all kinds of undesirables in the gut, and it feeds the beneficial bacteria as well. I believe a compete recovery could be made with 3-9 daily garlic capsules in as little as one month, and no longer than 1 year. I'm less than a week into it and so far nothing negative to report.

A diet with albacore tuna, breaded shrimp, pinto beans, whole organic milk, raw Amish cheese, roasted cashews, whole grain corn and rice, beef franks and burgers, Tyson chicken nuggets, canned cherries, raw apples, tangerines, carrot juice, canned peas and carrots. Organic whenever possible. Real vitamin A from whole food beta carotene sources is necessary for recovery. Real vitamin A is an essential nutrient.

Cut out caffeine and added sugar as much as possible. Avoid beef liver and cod liver oil. Avoid fodmap rich crucifer veggies.

Omad diet may be crucial as well, since intermittent fasting can have profound benefits for overall health. Beet it sport shots provide betaine, folate and nitrates to help boost Nitric oxide levels also.

1 hour ago, under_tow said:

@TrueJustice Testing Bs is best done in both blood and urine.

Here is a very good discussion on how when our gut biome is acting normally it creates all 8 B vitamins in the right ratios on its own from our food.

 

I think retinoic acid either provided from a high vitamin A diet or accutane disrupts this function, removing vitamin A from the diet(and stopping accutane if taking it) and supplementing with correct minerals and Bs for a period of time help kickstart this.

https://b12oils.com/rnb.htm

 

Molybdenum is key here, it is part of the enzymes to convert retinyldehyde to retinoic acid for vitamin A excretion via glucuronidation, and also part of the enzymes to activate B2.

On top of all this would be vitamin D that opposes vitamin A, best to get it from sunlight, but in winter low dose supplement could be helpful. Vitamin D is discussed in the youtube link.

Just curious, could there be something stopping small intestine from converting all forms of consumed vitamin A to retinol, like a shunting at this level?

Cal, I think you meant to ask if there's something stopping the conversion of beta carotene into retinol, and the answer is yes, and that something is a maligned microbiome. Too many bad guys, not enough good guys. Correct the microbiome with daily garlic capsules and you solve that issue.

When you consume retinol from whole beef liver or cod liver oil, it's already retinol. No conversion needed when eating whole beef liver or cod liver oil.

Molybdenum is obtained from eating beans and peas. Isolated molybdenum supplements do more harm than good.

Guys, just go on a gluten free (has to be really strict with no cheating, not even slightly), low inflammatory diet with lots of vegetables and fruits and low carbsfor a month and your symptoms will be gone.

Wrong. Simply going gluten free does nothing to kill pathogenic microbes and parasites in the gut. A low carb diet can easily lead to dehydration. Produce is good, but too much produce and not enough saturated fat irritates an already damaged gut. The key is balance. Low carb diet is not balanced. A low sugar diet with adequate complex carbs would be healthier.

Anyone tried gluten supplements?

just joking, there is plenty of merit going gluten free

my kinesiology work has definitely detected having to get off gluten, even for a few weeks which is bloody hard to do

Infact it could be the missing link and may even be holding things back with regard to fixing gut/reflux issues completely

its definitely a discipline though to get off it

As I have posted, I wrote to MHRA Inquiry two letters. One, detailing my son's current issues, the other, detailing many of the long term damage that many of us have and that they seem to be utterly unaware of. They did write me back. (Below)

If you have not yet written the Inquiry PLEASE DO SO NOW.

Tj, Going gluten free can help, but it's not necessary. Daily organic garlic is necessary to correct your microbiome imbalance. Once the microbiome is rebalanced, gluten is no longer an issue.

In supplement form or actual organic grown garlic??

Both. Oregon's wild and solaray are two brands of high quality organic garlic available in capsules, available at Amazon and other online retailers.

I've also added Gnc tyrosine 1000 and Doublewood Citrulline to the mix.

Accutane's damage is twofold. To the microbiome, and to the brain. Garlic resets the microbiome by killing the bad and feeding the good. I believe a combo of tyrosine and citrulline can reverse the brain damage. I've always had high serotonin and low dopamine. Tyrosine should be able to fix this. My biofeedback machine also indicates systemic hypertension. Citrulline should be able to fix this.

Current daily regimen is Organic garlic 6 capsules. Tyrosine 4 grams. Citrulline 3 grams. Will see how it goes.

Also, stock up on albacore tuna pouches. Whole food Omega 3 is crucial for post accutane brain recovery. If I can't sleep, I eat a pouch of albacore tuna, and within under an hour I'm fast asleep. Or if you like salmon, do that.

Over 700 pages and no one fully recovered?

On 2/12/2020 at 3:23 PM, Aaron76 said:

Wrong. Simply going gluten free does nothing to kill pathogenic microbes and parasites in the gut. A low carb diet can easily lead to dehydration. Produce is good, but too much produce and not enough saturated fat irritates an already damaged gut. The key is balance. Low carb diet is not balanced. A low sugar diet with adequate complex carbs would be healthier.

It would be interesting to try the KETO diet instead of LOW-CARB. These are not the same:
https://www.amplemeal.com/blogs/home/keto-vs-low-carb-whats-difference

Each one is suited for a different goal: https://www.amplemeal.com/blogs/home/keto-vs-low-carb-whats-difference

I am trying healthy KETO now - no plans to do this forever, it would be an interesting experiment to achieve my goal to get rid of the belly fat I still have - even though I have a normal weight I never managed to achieve that.

Having lots of fruits (and the same can be said about juices, which are even worse)is a bad idea. Here's why:

And the reasons mostfruits we consume today arenot as healthyas wethink:

I am now limiting how muchI eat everyday. I have restricted myself to an avocado at lunch, and 100 grams of berries at dinner.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/is-low-carb-right-for-you

Perhaps a good KETO diet (and one that is cyclical, which involves rotating between a strict high-fat, low-carb ketogenic meal plan and higher carb intake for a few days) is all that we needed to heal ourselves. Who knows?

You all need to check what is best with a qualified dietitian. And of course restricting how many meals you have in a day (I am now only eating at breakfast, lunch and dinner - 3 times - no more snacks).

What I can say is that traditional diets usually prescribed for most people aren't the best option. I was reluctant at first to try something new, now I am confident this is what I needed.

******
Oh, I found this link with a few suggestions about what we should do to recover post-Accutane treatment: https://thechalkboardmag.com/how-to-recover-accutane-side-effects

Perhaps it can be of some help, too. I am/was already following a few things (asfor lemon, be careful to not spoil yourteeth). The last I am trying is a B complex (a multivitamin, actually).

I've been nothing more than a researcher and cheerleader for various products lately, hoping each one would be the answer for everyone, but i believe this guy above is absolutely 100% correct about the drug still being trapped in the body. He's simply wrong about how to get rid of it.

I'm currently using 3 things. Whole beef liver pills, Gnc glucosamine and chondroitin, and beet it sport shots. Whole beef liver is an excellent source of retinol, which is what accutane pushed out of our body when we took it. Glucosamine is a precursor to glucuronic acid, which is what is needed to attach to accutane to remove it from the body. Chondroitin is an excellent source of glucuronic acid. And beet it shots are high in folate, betaine, and nitrates for Nitric oxide production.

The reason accutane remains trapped in your body is two reasons. You need preformed retinol to push it out. Retinol comes from whole beef liver, which nobody eats anymore. And two, your body never has enough glucuronic acid to pull it out, and so it remains trapped inside you forever. Once you take initiative and FORCE the issue, with retinol rich beef liver pills and glucosamine and chondroitin, now you are proactively pushing and pulling the poison out of you.

Just started this protocol and will see how it goes. Will report progress in the coming week(s).

I'm also listening to my body as far as when and what to eat. Beef, albacore, roasted cashews, whole organic milk, raw Amish cheese, Cole slaw, non GMO popcorn, non GMO whole grain rice crisps, simply smoothies, including mango and orchard berry, are some of the staple foods. If my body doesn't feel like eating anything until after work, then I eat nothing until after work. This is called intermittent fasting, which has profound healing effects. The beet it shot is consumed right before work. The liver and glucosamine supplements are with food after work.