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5 hours ago, TrueJustice said:I wonder what led a Dr to say this?
Im assuming he didnt take it himself so he can only partially know the hellinvolved. Then again hes probably speaking on behalf of patients hes seen who suffer the effects over the years....
Its a good fitting quote
Thanks , read his research its ground breaking stuff... and btw no he didnt take chemotherapy but a lot of his patients did.
8 hours ago, Gladiatoro said:Whoever masterminded this chemo torture deserves deserves a monument in hell quoted from Dr Hamer father of.... German New Medicine.
Yes the inventor of Accutane is Dr Gary Peck, 27 years ago he found that it treats acne. Amazingly he is still a practicising doctor.
https://mohs-md.com/dermatology/gary-peck-md/
8 hours ago, Perene said:"When considering the cost, keep in mind that TRT simply boosts your T levels. It wont treat the underlying cause of your low T, so you may need life-long treatment."
What if accutane is the underlying cause, and its permanently altered our endocrine system to not create optimal T levels? As we are posting in this thread we are all aware this is long term and permanent - im starting to think TRT is the only answer. Seems a couple of people have posted about TRT in this thread, but not many.
Most docs wont prescribe it if your low but just above the min - but for good health and great life im thinking it should be closer to the upper range
Im thinking maybe HCG Mono then an AI etc might work, to see levels can get up to desired - but i suspect it wont be permanent...
ive also noticed good libido boosts from the OTC test boosters - but they are just temporary. Also D3 is low for me and 5k IU a day makes a good difference.
Yeah might have to go down that path.
We know tane depletes Zinc but supplementing it does fuck all from my experience unfortunately
Slightly encouraged lately by both Vit D/K - been good for libido. Also noticeable difference in skin moisture after 2 weeks of Vit Esupplementing....Its not much but its something
5 hours ago, TrueJustice said:Yeah might have to go down that path.
We know tane depletes Zinc but supplementing it does fuck all from my experience unfortunately
Slightly encouraged lately by both Vit D/K - been good for libido. Also noticeable difference in skin moisture after 2 weeks of Vit Esupplementing....Its not much but its something
Have you tried using the neurosteroids, pregnanolone or progesterone. The one product that I used to moisten my skin was pregnanolone and progesterone. They were brilliant at the beggining but then I got alot of adrenaline and anxiety and couldnt take them anymore, possibly to high a dosage but did wonders for my skin and lips.
Also have you heard of the supplement 5a dhp which is the precursor to Allopregnenalone?
On 9/21/2019 at 3:28 PM, arus9000 said:
What if accutane is the underlying cause, and its permanently altered our endocrine system to not create optimal T levels? As we are posting in this thread we are all aware this is long term and permanent - im starting to think TRT is the only answer. Seems a couple of people have posted about TRT in this thread, but not many.
Most docs wont prescribe it if your low but just above the min - but for good health and great life im thinking it should be closer to the upper range
Im thinking maybe HCG Mono then an AI etc might work, to see levels can get up to desired - but i suspect it wont be permanent...
ive also noticed good libido boosts from the OTC test boosters - but they are just temporary. Also D3 is low for me and 5k IU a day makes a good difference.
[Edited video out]
TRT looks like a scam to me. It's expensive, they say you need to do it for the rest of your life, because if you stop then the supposed benefits will not last... and just like Accutane you are relying on a drug that might help with your side effects, but don't attack what really caused the problem in the first place.
Ubiquitous symptoms like fatigue or erectile dysfunction don't justify in ALL cases TRT, if at all. Blood tests are not the only way to tell if we need to do this treatment.
You need to do others, too, for example MRI pituitary scan to diagnose hypogonadism, or a sperm test.
Then there are some nasty side effects for TRT. I know even vitamins can have them, yet there's always a chance TRT is not done properly or any of these effects happening anyway.
One of them is that your brain stops telling your body to produce testosterone when it senses there's enough. Over time, that can lead to testicular cell damage, cell death and even visible testicle shrinkage, which inhibits sperm production.
No one will warn you that you will become infertile after doing TRT. But that can happen. There is also increased risk for cardiovascular conditions including blood clots, heart attacks and strokes, negative effect on the prostate in men who already have some conditions, including prostate cancer and benign prostatic hypertrophy, or an enlarged prostate, which causes the need for frequent urination, mood issues if T gets too high...
When I started with the Accutane treatment I wasn't suffering from severe acne. My acne was mostly in the back. Did I start a new lifestyle, a new diet, going to a gym (I never did this in the previous years), exposing my skin to receive vitamin D/to the Sun? No. I spend most time indoors. I was eating junk food. Among many things that I am sure exacerbated my acne.
Perhaps if I did what I am doing TODAY then in a few years or by now the acne would have vanished.
What was the quickest and easiest solution? To try a drug that many years later I am sure it's still affecting me, considering all the damage it can cause.
That's why I am reluctant to rely on ANY MED. I am not adopting an idiotic stance to reject this as a possibility to help me. There's nothing more antinatural than medicine, otherwise we would embrace cancer and other health issues, and never treat them.
I am merely saying we need to investigate EVERYTHING in our environment, in our food, our air, our water... that might be detrimental to our health. Nothing can be ruled out. Even EMF radiation, that no one mentions, can be a good explanation and may severely impact us. Ask the late John McCain about that...
And since vitamins are cheaper and safer, I think they deserve to be tried first. Not at the very high and not recommended dosages everyone is saying they work, for B-6, for example, I am using 25 mg which is the max daily dosage.
This link explains the max dosefor vitamin D: https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/589256_7
About the reference ranges, they vary widely (for testosterone) in laboratories, and only an imbecile (and most doctors are really, really stupid) would rely on a number to tell if a pacient needs TRT or if it's sick or not.
First of all, who determines the range I mentioned before, from 241 to 800s? My result was 240. If I measure 241 then I am not sick anymore?
Worse: if I don't have any symptom that indicates a disease then that doesn't mean a psychiatrist is the only one I should visit, and it's all in my head and antidepressants are what I need.
Regardless of your age you should look for the best health you can have, and that means higher testosterone. Not extremely high, yet higher. If the patient has all the signs that indicate low T such as low libido, mental decline, fatigue, not being able to achieve good results at the gym, then a lof ot things need to be carefully analysed.
It could be a vitamin deficiency. It could be so many things that decrease testosterone that to listall of them here would be... impossible.
Instead of tackling with all the things that can be impairing our health, what do we do?
We rely on a drug/on meds, of course!
That's the last thing we should think! Before taking any med investigate other things first.
For example, I also suffer from nonallergic rhinitis. Recently I was prescribed a nasal spray, to be used for at least 3 months, since my tests couldn't detect a specific allergy.
You know what I did at the same time? Changedeverything in my bedroom/environment that could be making the allergy worse. From ditching the mattress (every 5 years at least) and it's foundation (if it's still there it will lead to rapid recontamination of the new mattress) and pillows to buying anti dust mite covers, to use a new vacuum cleanerwith an HEPA filter instead of a broom, perhaps use a mask during certain tasks, etc. I could list 50 changes to improve things besides just using the nasal spray.
The end result is that my allergy improved dramatically.
Would just using the nasal spray deliverme any result after these months if were not for the other things I did? Absolutely NOT!I would have wasted my time and money like I did before with a different med.
The thing is, no one wants to do what it takes, everyone thinks a drug will cure them and that's it.
Now, back to lab ranges: of course if most people ARE SICK and suffer from low T/high prolactin (the latter even due to stress), the ranges will be lower.
A good example is a LEAD BLOOD TEST.
In adults, lead blood levels up to 10 mcg/dL are considered normal. So let's say the range is between 2 and 8. Some people can get sick with 1. Others with 5. Then with 7.
However a good doctor would tell you that ALL OF THEM are sick, because the ideal should be having NO LEAD AT ALL in your result! The same thing I said about my testosterone.
Perhaps my T 10 years ago when I hadn't started with Accutane was 500. It could have been improved with all these changes to 700 nowadays. I don't know how high it was since my first measure was 2 years ago.
Now it's down to 240. And maybe, just maybe, most modern men are in the 300s or 400s. Over time with more toxins, more drugs and poisons in our food, air, personal hygiene products, plastics (BPA) these will only decrease.
So don't ever trust these results as an indication that you are healthy. You are being a fool that only reads a number and don't think about what it entails.
One last thing: don't do the same mistake I did, totrust 1 or 2 doctors. Don't even trust doctors from where you live. Always ask for as much different opinions as you can.
Perhaps it would be wiser to approach (if possible, of course) the doctors who studied all the Accutane side effects, including low libido. Why waste any time with charlatans?
It's tough to do a lot of tests and try different approaches for all these issues, yet it's the only way and at the same time you might uncover what Accutane actually did to you.
No one wants to discover anything these days, everyone just want quick answers and solutions.
Perhaps with all my changes I might double my testosterone and solve once and for all this problem. Who knows?
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-mystery-of-declining-testosterone_b_59fcc5fbe4b0d467d4c224b3
Thats a good article and thanks for sharing.
I assume though when you say, no one wants to discover anything these days we all want quick answers and solutions, you mean outside of these circles yeah!!?
Many of us have now spent half our lives trying to get out of this mess, spending large amounts of money and seeking advice from all over - from GPs to Specialists to alternate practitioners in all sorts of fields over many years.
Yet we still have issues....
5 hours ago, TrueJustice said:Thats a good article and thanks for sharing.
I assume though when you say, no one wants to discover anything these days we all want quick answers and solutions, you mean outside of these circles yeah!!?
Many of us have now spent half our lives trying to get out of this mess, spending large amounts of money and seeking advice from all over - from GPs to Specialists to alternate practitioners in all sorts of fields over many years.
Yet we still have issues....
The internet is filled with gurus that promise quick solutions for low T and other health issues, and many tips are wrong, such as using high doses for vitamins without any fear this can impact us. And we should never embark on anything without medical advice first. That includes a new diet or workout routine. But I must say I am appalled at how conceited and dumb most doctors and "professionals"are. 99.999999... % don't believe a drug can cause serious side effects even years or decades after you stop using.
If this is all new information (in fact it's the opposite, since there are reports of sexual dysfunction from decades ago, and of course Roche ignored all of them, while at the same time argued it doesn't know exactly the ways Accutane act in our bodies), and they are not informed, they opt to ignore the informationanyway, even if you present all the evidence.
Next time all of you visit a doctor and the guydoesn't even try to imagine howthis could be Accutane's fault, leave the room immediately.
Because that person is only there to make money as much (and quickly)as possible and doesn't care in any way about your outcome.
And even if he/she does, that doesn't mean he/she arequalified to help you.
Last week I spoke with someone involved with clinical nutrition and asked about how to increase my testosterone, mentioned I was looking for a specific diet for a new workout routine, and that I am trying vitamins. The first thing the guy says is... YOU NEED TRT. Not a single word about trying to increase these levels the ways I said before. At least to see in a couple of months if the experiment would fail.
So yeah, most people are sadly eager to find an easy solution for their problems, we are the exception because we know more than others they are not going away after we snap our fingers. This isn't a movie, it's real life. And it's not just Accutane, Finasteride is another drug that is reported to cause Permanent Sexual Dysfunction.
That's why I am always suggesting to check with multiple doctors and do as much tests as possible, as much changes to rule out toxins as you can, and try supplements and things that are not detrimental, before trusting Big Pharma again, which caused all our problems in the first place. If I had the chance I would only visit doctors that actually published reports about Accutane's side effects. Unfortunately even these reports do not tell the whole storyfrom all affected, so there's not much information at this point to study this side effect.
On 9/19/2019 at 9:10 PM, Anna Nim said:Hello Repairers,
I am not happy to find myself here. My not-even-out of high school son just tossed his Accutane away about 5 days ago. He has reported to me an issue with ED (overly tight testicles, loss of strength of erection). He was 2.5 months intohis second round (after a break of a year or so), they upped his dose to 3 pills a day 8-ishdays prior and then he noticed this issue. Now I know all the horrors. I am hysterical. Utterly hysterical. I know the damn Dr's won't be able to do a damn thing ("We've never seen a issue with Isotretinoin") , although he is going to the GP tomorrow for a referralto a Uro & I guess a Endo? (insert bitter laugh). Today, 4+ days without he is exceptionally thirsty, like WAY more than the other few days, but at least his depression has lifted almost 100% (we didn't even realize how bad it was).
Is there anything he can do to help get this shit out of his system faster? Anything to heal the damage to his Pituitary/Hormone system at this early stage? I've read (some) of the past 695 pages & am overwhelmed, almost suicidal and broken hearted. Reduce foods with Vitamin A. (My dumb ass was letting him eat multivitimans, more than normal with damn Athis week). Keep it simple, natural. Maybe fasting? Milk Thistle for liver? (We are in the USA).
So, also, for the "rare" side effect of ED related issues, of those who have it, is there any sort of consensus of how many recover vs stay the same or get worse?Is it that once that the sexual side effect hits, you have passed the point of return OR is itthat men get better, simply never land here, and go on their way. WDYT?
Hoping Against Hope for my only child and reason for life.
It's enlightening to see how so many fellow victims of Accutane put aside their babbling to rush to help.
@Anna Nim , I've sent you a PM and can put you in contact with someone whose son is in a similar situation after taking Accutane. Please report this to the FDA! Keep close watch on your son's mental state at this point and be extra observant of any behavior indicative of suicidal ideation. The first weeks after symptoms develop is typically the worst for us, but many improve naturally during the first 6 months to where they have some function return.
1 hour ago, Dubya_B said:
It's enlightening to see how so many fellow victims of Accutane put aside their babbling to rush to help.
@Anna Nim , I've sent you a PM and can put you in contact with someone whose son is in a similar situation after taking Accutane. Please report this to the FDA! Keep close watch on your son's mental state at this point and be extra observant of any behavior indicative of suicidal ideation. The first weeks after symptoms develop is typically the worst for us, but many improve naturally during the first 6 months to where they have some function return.
I noticed that..
Oh, the lady with the son's contact info?
@hatetane is someone you may want to contact for support in dealing with your son being sexually damaged by Accutane.
Honestly don't remember getting ED on it, but may had without noticing. If I did it wasn't an issue after treatment.@Dubya_BI do wonder if it changed something as I have more body hair than others in my family.
@Calcified Maybe. There is no way to tell what effect it might have had on body hair growth since there is no test for the PAS/PFS mechanism in follicles. However, there have been several case reports of women developing hirsutism on Accutane.
Growth of body hair really took off for me after Accutane, while I had very little/light hair prior to the crash. This was around 18.5 y/o, so it could simply be coincidence.
.
Be mindful of the TRT warnings, but don't be intimidated by them. Some of my best rehabilitation success has come as a result of hyperbaric oxygen therapy (have my own chamber, oooo 7 psi, so dangerous, your eardrums will explode).Your car tires are 30 psi just for reference.TRT for 3 years off and on now. And one Cerebrolysin protocol (2 injections a day for almost a month, ouch! my legs). And I'm cheap, which means sometimes I'll put a syringe and needle in a zip loc, place in fridge, and sterilize once i reuse it. Up to 3-4 days. Never had an infection. Doesn't mean that it can't happen if I get careless. Have to stay hygenic, but comes naturally to me.I always utilize a scientific procedure and process when doing all of my science projects.
I'm a science guy, but also human, I didn't want to lower my previous quality of life (as shitty as it was), any more than the next guy. But, life has risks to get anywhere. It's just our universe. And the predicament you are in warrants enough to take risks at this point (my feelings, at least, after 8 years of not making any progress).
You can do TRT slow, use the gel, if you are scared of needles, try it for a month, and guess what, you'll always return to baseline a couple of weeks later. You aren't going to crash your levels, or your brain permanently stop responding, or any of those extreme warnings. Those are for those HUGE muscle head guys that you see. And even for them, there are ways to make your testes drop again (HCG, PCT). I don't want to get graphic, but you will KNOW when you do too much, it's a long process that takes months, and you'll feel discomfort while it's happening. Your body is not dumb. It reacts to things to let you know, "hey, don't do this".You'd probably have to do in excess of >1000mg a week for a year. And I've never gone that high. During the summer maybe 600mg a week. Then I take a break cold turkey for the winter. Maybe a shot here or there for a fun week. Some weeks I go without if I'm busy doing projects. My testes have never fluctuated in size. Again, those are usually the big body builder guys.
I'd say be more weary of startingTRT for the first time and jumping into high intensity exercise, or drinking too much coffee, if you are older than 35. Your heart needs a gradual increase in volume. Then you'll be able to run for miles, and drink a coffee, and 2 sodas a day. but do NOT rush things. Life is all about timing and patience.
If your levels are below 350 because of accutane, ptsd (war or sports concussions), or any other drug as powerful as taneand you are past your mid-late 20's. My friend, the train has left. Obviously, you can exercise and diet, bring the levels up some,but there's only so much you can do naturally.
How do you know its TRT for sure?
I think Im safe in saying most of us over the years have tested within range even though our side effects suggest otherwise.
Ive just spent a year working on gut but I now know its not all about gut even though Im grateful for doing the work and at least clearing things up a bit
Im now leaning towards issues being from frontal lobe damage so I ageee that hyperbaric chamber might be good but Im not completely convinced I need to start injecting stuff that I have no clue about and might start fucking my self up even more.....everyonesdifferent I guess.
@macleod I tried gels but it only elevated estrogens. Did you have a similar experience?
On 9/30/2019 at 8:20 AM, Calcified said:@macleod I tried gels but it only elevated estrogens. Did you have a similar experience?
I think a few times when i went too high, I would feel sensitive nipples, but you just cut back and things balance out. Your body will give you signs. And you can take DIM supplements (which is found in brocolli) and other things to supress estrogen, just ask the guys on the bodybuilding forums and learn from them.
On 9/30/2019 at 4:14 AM, TrueJustice said:Im now leaning towards issues being from frontal lobe damage so I ageee that hyperbaric chamber might be good but Im not completely convinced I need to start injecting stuff that I have no clue about and might start fucking my self up even more.....everyonesdifferent I guess.
Yea, hyperbaric chamber is great. It's just loud and time consuming (1 hour minimum). Plus, you also have to get a prescription for o2 somehow. I can teach you how to build one yourself for less than $500. I have a .pdf copy of the US Navy hyperbaric manuals, safety, and standards. I also have a collection ofsteel drum ratings and specifications manuals discussing MAX loads.
Every day on earth is a risk. Our universe is inherently uncertain, which is why we have society and jobs such as health, law enforcement, economics, and insurance. Actually, most jobs are predicated on the uncertainty of the universe and the human beings that live within. Our task is to use logic and "laws" created by physicists and doctors to lower that risk and increase our quality of life.
It does get out of hand in a capitalistic society. If you went to your doctor, the pharma company is going to charge the insurance company $500 for a bottle of TRT gel that cost them $11 to make. And you have to pay the insurance company $200-300 just for insurance which may or may not cover the cost of medicines depending on your coverage.
Thankfully, we have the internet. And you can find fair prices for any product imaginable (if it exists), there is always a market. And most places are not shady and want to hurt people.But I can't advocate anything on this site as far as that goes. But there are great places around the world in many countries.
I mean look at Roche, it's one of the biggest, if not the biggest, and look at the poison they sell legally.
Cerebrolysin is great. And the small Austrian pharma company that sell it are good people. They aren't the only ones that utilize neuro-peptides. Russia uses peptides in a lot of their medicine. And the great thing about peptides, is they are derived naturally.
Natural does not interest big pharma companies. They need to synthesize it so that they can PATENT it. So that they can Profit. That's the ONLY thing that motivates them. They don't care if something works a little bit, or curessomeone, if they aren't getting a cut.
It's funny, because you read the "feel good" tweets from sheeple, when something "new" hits the headlines, like this article for example,
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-47255-9
'Short amylin receptor antagonist peptides improve memory deficits in Alzheimers disease mouse model'
Then you search, Amylin, and you find out itis a peptide hormone that is cosecreted with insulin from the pancreatic -cell.
Then, as a Science guy, you think hmmm, the biggest pharmaceutical drugto treat pancreatic insufficiency is Creon.
CREON and other pancreatic enzyme products are made from the pancreas of pigs, the same pigs people eat as pork.
Then you think, hmm, Cerebrolysin is derived from the brains of pigs. Cerebrolysin is used to treat stroke, dementia, and alzheimers.
These people are just stealing another mans work from long ago.They are just trying to find a way to synthesize it so that they can patent it to say they invented it. It's amusing.
Science is complicated at times, but everything is relative in our universe. It's not magic that you can'tpractice and learn yourself. A pharmaceutical company can'tcreate things out of thin air.Most everything has a natural origin. And in the past, we used to crush up these natural elements in a bowl, extract the constituents by boiling it with water. They still do the same thing in the lab, but with more complicated means by methanol, ethanol, acetone extraction.
You have a liver. You have an immune system. Allergic reactions are rare, and manageable. It's mostly the unknown that frightens people. I study Mycology, and people dread mushrooms, because of the stories of the poisonous inedible ones. But believe it or not, fungus accounts for something like 40% of the pharmaceutical drugs we have to fight bacterial infections. Becuase they are the best at it. They developed an immune system like us over millions of years. But it's something about little pills that have stamps and numbers that make us feel safe ingesting.
now i'm rambling, i forgot what we were talking about.
On 9/20/2019 at 11:10 AM, Anna Nim said:Hello Repairers,
I am not happy to find myself here. My not-even-out of high school son just tossed his Accutane away about 5 days ago. He has reported to me an issue with ED (overly tight testicles, loss of strength of erection). He was 2.5 months intohis second round (after a break of a year or so), they upped his dose to 3 pills a day 8-ishdays prior and then he noticed this issue. Now I know all the horrors. I am hysterical. Utterly hysterical. I know the damn Dr's won't be able to do a damn thing ("We've never seen a issue with Isotretinoin") , although he is going to the GP tomorrow for a referralto a Uro & I guess a Endo? (insert bitter laugh). Today, 4+ days without he is exceptionally thirsty, like WAY more than the other few days, but at least his depression has lifted almost 100% (we didn't even realize how bad it was).
Is there anything he can do to help get this shit out of his system faster? Anything to heal the damage to his Pituitary/Hormone system at this early stage? I've read (some) of the past 695 pages & am overwhelmed, almost suicidal and broken hearted. Reduce foods with Vitamin A. (My dumb ass was letting him eat multivitimans, more than normal with damn Athis week). Keep it simple, natural. Maybe fasting? Milk Thistle for liver? (We are in the USA).
So, also, for the "rare" side effect of ED related issues, of those who have it, is there any sort of consensus of how many recover vs stay the same or get worse?Is it that once that the sexual side effect hits, you have passed the point of return OR is itthat men get better, simply never land here, and go on their way. WDYT?
Hoping Against Hope for my only child and reason for life.
Isotretinoin is different from vitamin A. My personal opinion is that symptoms are exacerbated by having no vitamin A. Isotretinoin is usually 1-2% of the retinoids in your body, and is obtained from the body deriving it from vitamin A,but during treatment you in ingest up to 100x more isotretinoin then the RDA for vit A. Thus in some organs, such as the skin, there are signs of vit a toxicity, as in those organs Isotretinoin acts as a subsitute correctlybut in others, such as the eyes, where it does not function like vitamin A, there are signs of vitamin A deficiency, because they compete for retinoid receptors and other forms of vitamin A are drowned out.
your eyes need different vitamin A, and they usually get the right type, but when your body is flooded with isotretinoin they are more likely to grab the wrong the type. Thus its a good thing your son had Multivitaminsimho, because I also believe this happens in the brain and different organs as well as the eyes, and so different forms of vitamin A were circulating so the isotretinoin poisoning wont be as bad.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4533586/ Study with Isotretinoin-induced vitamin A deficiency> Night blindness