Ronnie99- accutane has in studies treated Cushing's disease while on treatment, afterwards I guess anything is possible.

Have you received any type of diagnosis or reasoning from doc's?

Is anyone else worried about their kidneys and liver being damaged?

On 5/11/2019 at 10:48 PM, Ronnie99 said:

I think were on the right track concerning dysregulation of the HPA Axis, more so on the glucocosteroids dysfunction within the HPA Axis, there is a strong study on this and interesting read, more importantly it says that a reset of the HPA Axis is possible with Mifespristone as they done a study on rats being administered Accutane and reversing its effects with Mifespristone.

Please read from the link below and maybe we can start from this angle with numerous studies performed how retinoic acid affects the glucocosteroids and causes the negative feedback loop to not work properly which results in HPA dyregulation, which can cause dry skin, androgen testosterone deficencies, neurotransmitter imbalances. I believe if we can get our HPA Axis to function again as it should most of our symptoms should resolve.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4030330/

 

Thanks for posting that report - very much appreciated

Good to know my kinesiologist is on the right path in treating me, although Im curious to get his thoughts on Mifepristone

Is our approach of adjustments and taking herbs etc going to work when matched against such a strong drug as Mifepristone??!!

In a few weeks time, Ill challenge him on that, see what he says!!

I note posts of copper toxicity/altered ceruloplasmin gained some traction a few years ago.

Why was this dropped as a theory?

Seems even more possible with the whole anti A (zinc consumption) theory rolling around now.

You start looking for some of these connections, and...

Retinoic acid and the gut microbiota in Alzheimer's disease: fighting back-to-back?

So is it the micronutrient regulating the bacteria or the bacteria regulating the micronutrient?

It's the micronutrient regulating the bacteria, we weren't treated with bacteria.

On 5/12/2019 at 10:19 PM, Calcified said:

Ronnie99- accutane has in studies treated Cushing's disease while on treatment, afterwards I guess anything is possible.

Have you received any type of diagnosis or reasoning from doc's?

 

Not really a diagnosis, as symptons could be a variety of things, the main point is I think if we somehow can fix or treat the glucocosteroid receptors and levels, then I beleive we have treat some of our symtpoms, and these steroids play a role in alot of bodily functions, testosterone, immune, skin, and the people hear mainly complain about these areas.

Does anyone know, is glucosteroids treatment possible, or any test that can reveal dysfunction or not within normal ranges ?

On 5/13/2019 at 7:29 AM, TrueJustice said:

Thanks for posting that report - very much appreciated

Good to know my kinesiologist is on the right path in treating me, although Im curious to get his thoughts on Mifepristone

Is our approach of adjustments and taking herbs etc going to work when matched against such a strong drug as Mifepristone??!!

In a few weeks time, Ill challenge him on that, see what he says!!

How is your kinesiologist treating you in regards to Glucocosteroids ? Is there a test to determine dysfunction or abnormal levels ?

Treating Glucocosteroids specifically?....,hes not ( not that I know of anyway )

Ive emailed that report to him to look at, wont see him again for a few weeks though.

Ive been doing weekly treatmentsfor last 9 months, adjustments, takingvarious herbs and supplements along the way:

P5P, B12, Zinc, Baical Skullcap, Sweet Wormwood, Rhodiola, Taurine, Vit D , NAC, Iron. Heaps of NAC actually- its the one that breaks everything down - all the biofilms etc

All takenwith a targeted approach as my body needs them - rebuilding HPA Axis

Be great to see some others working with a specialist too....

As I said though, Im interested on his thoughts on Mifepristone in particular,I mean in this instance why did it take such a powerful drug to reset Axis as indicated in report???

Is that suggesting my approach with herbs and supplements is too soft, its going to do some good but not reset things?

These are the questions Id like to know.

Im grateful that my specialist identified HPA dysfunction as my problem without me prompting him - in that sense Im trusting in the process and doing well thus farwith rebuilding everything. Be good to avoid Mifepristone if I can!!

3 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

Treating Glucocosteroids specifically?....,hes not ( not that I know of anyway )

Ive emailed that report to him to look at, wont see him again for a few weeks though.

Ive been doing weekly treatmentsfor last 9 months, adjustments, takingvarious herbs and supplements along the way:

P5P, B12, Zinc, Baical Skullcap, Sweet Wormwood, Rhodiola, Taurine, Vit D , NAC, Iron. Heaps of NAC actually- its the one that breaks everything down - all the biofilms etc

All takenwith a targeted approach as my body needs them - rebuilding HPA Axis

Be great to see some others working with a specialist too....

As I said though, Im interested on his thoughts on Mifepristone in particular,I mean in this instance why did it take such a powerful drug to reset Axis as indicated in report???

Is that suggesting my approach with herbs and supplements is too soft, its going to do some good but not reset things?

These are the questions Id like to know.

Im grateful that my specialist identified HPA dysfunction as my problem without me prompting him - in that sense Im trusting in the process and doing well thus farwith rebuilding everything. Be good to avoid Mifepristone if I can!!

 

One theory I can think of, if Accutane being such a powerful drug to cause HPA dysfuntion, it would be fair to say that Mifepristone being a strong drug would also be needed to reset it back.

its great your specialist identified it being HPA dysfunction as from all the literature I have read your definitely on the right track as I believe this is main culprit causing all our symptoms.

if I decided to try the Mifespristone route, thats only half way there, as the other half would be how would you be able to get it from a good source ?

Essentially for a guy it reduces progesterone doesnt it??

Surely it cant be the only way using Mifepristone....

And if it is, yeah where the hell to get it from or who to prescribe it to us!!??

1 hour ago, TrueJustice said:

Essentially for a guy it reduces progesterone doesnt it??

Surely it cant be the only way using Mifepristone....

And if it is, yeah where the hell to get it from or who to prescribe it to us!!??

 

What are your main negative symptoms from using Accutane ?

Fatigue, severe dryness, depression, muscle weakness, insomnia, light sensitivity,slow wound healing, eye floaters, thinning hair, premature greying, varicose veins, gerd......

excess sweating, with my sebaceous glands altered it just pours out of me

On 5/14/2019 at 11:38 AM, Calcified said:

It's the micronutrient regulating the bacteria, we weren't treated with bacteria.

Im going to re quote what I just posted.

On 5/14/2019 at 9:10 AM, guitarman01 said:

there are several routes how microbial commensals might affect and might be affected by vitamin A and its derivatives.

Everything a person ingests in their diet, vitamins from a to zinc, to drugs, can cause shifts and manipule the microbiome.

This obviously isnt specific to Retinoic Acid.

Looking at this from a troubleshooting perspective, no matter what a person does diet wise, drugs, vitamins,

If they were missing some key microbial commensals, a person would not generate something out of nothing, no matter how strict the diet.

The probiotic market is in its infancy atm. I believe strains need to be looked at on an individual basis. What might be a commensal for one person, could be a foreign invader for the next, that the body rejects. Almost similar to organ transplants.

Dupont is looking at some evidence right now that this could even be related to blood type.

Or its marketing, but it makes sense. They are finding some probiotic strains in certain individuals are colonizing and persisting many months after the last dosage.

Recent examples: 2019 These are not commercially available strains atm.

Bifidobacterium with the role of 5-hydroxytryptophan synthesis regulation alleviates the symptom of depression and related microbiota dysbiosis

https://pubag.nal.usda.gov/catalog/6285754

We think the results are novel and innovative and provide a scientific basis to assess the true impact of specific bacterial strains on the brain.

https://www.nutraingredients.com/Article/2019/04/23/Probiotic-strain-makes-use-of-gut-brain-axis-to-aid-stress-management-study-finds

New Groundbreaking Research Confirms Brain Coping Centre Activation

[Edited link out]

Guitarman01 -

I get what your saying.

Seems fasting reduces bacteria. Zinc also reduces bacteria.

But determining what's needed now is difficult.

Zinc and B12 also help with producing stomach acid - for me thats a godsend with the awful reflux issues Ive had.

Important though that reflex point above stomach near diaphragm is functioningcorrectly for thecorrect absorption to occur. He worked on this after I mentioned the slow wound healing Ive had - Zinc related.

kinesiologistsaid about Mifepristone - sure it might work initially in improving HPA but it isnt the way to go, he said itwould do nothing for gut and liver and all the other things weve been working on which are vital in the rebuilding process.

Fact - I have gut issues that we are working on, Mifepristone will do nothing to help gut.

Im on track, Ive successfully broken down the last lot of biofilms - he now needs me to go on what hes named Fental Powder - a precisecombination of Iron/Vit C. Has to be perfect ratio though so that should be next week when the 2 productsarriveat clinic and hell combine them correctly for me.

I believe this now has more to do with body producing antibodies- immune system related from what he said.

I saw a bunch of people pointing out inflammation being a problem. I just wanted to add my 2 bits in saying, that since cutting out dairy and vitamin A, my inflammation has significantly reduced. My stomach rarely hurts, and same goes for my head.

In fact, when I accidentally had some dairy a few days ago, I was reminded of the amount of inflammation I was having on a regular basis only a few months ago.

i'm going to continue to share some possible correlations.

New study demonstrates that intestinal bacteria grow in pregnant women

the microbial composition of bacteria during pregnancy in a way that may help the baby develop.

Why Don't All Infants Have Bifidobacteria in Their Stool?

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2016.00834/full

What are the Consequences of Lacking Bifidobacteria in the Bowel?

The absence of bifidobacteria in the bowel may be detrimental for infant development.

Can Vitamin A Supplements Help Alleviate Autism Symptoms in Children?

https://www.medicalnewsbulletin.com/vitamin-supplements-autism-symptoms-children/

Short answer probably not. But what did it do?

"Bifidobacteriumwas significantly reduced after vitamin A supplementation"

its in the same phylum of P. Acnes, which was significantlyreduced.

So what your thinking is accutane reduced bacteria on treatment and still to this day?

20 hours ago, cnb30 said:

I saw a bunch of people pointing out inflammation being a problem. I just wanted to add my 2 bits in saying, that since cutting out dairy and vitamin A, my inflammation has significantly reduced. My stomach rarely hurts, and same goes for my head.

 

In fact, when I accidentally had some dairy a few days ago, I was reminded of the amount of inflammation I was having on a regular basis only a few months ago.

Inflammation is a problem, and being the HPA axis being dysregulated from accutance, specifically the glucocorticoids, one of there main jobs is to reduce inflammation, and from the study I posted earlier that could be the primary source of the inflammation.

On 5/16/2019 at 8:48 PM, TrueJustice said:

Zinc and B12 also help with producing stomach acid - for me thats a godsend with the awful reflux issues Ive had.

Important though that reflex point above stomach near diaphragm is functioningcorrectly for thecorrect absorption to occur. He worked on this after I mentioned the slow wound healing Ive had - Zinc related.

kinesiologistsaid about Mifepristone - sure it might work initially in improving HPA but it isnt the way to go, he said itwould do nothing for gut and liver and all the other things weve been working on which are vital in the rebuilding process.

Fact - I have gut issues that we are working on, Mifepristone will do nothing to help gut.

Im on track, Ive successfully broken down the last lot of biofilms - he now needs me to go on what hes named Fental Powder - a precisecombination of Iron/Vit C. Has to be perfect ratio though so that should be next week when the 2 productsarriveat clinic and hell combine them correctly for me.

I believe this now has more to do with body producing antibodies- immune system related from what he said.

With Mifepristone, in the study, once it was stopped the HPA axis continued to recover until it was in balance again. So possibly from the study it not just works initially but provides a reset in the short and long term.

Has anyone on this forum mentioned the BCO1 Vitamin A gene, couple studies I have read that if there is a mutation with this gene changed by Accutane can cause multiple issues from skin to testosterone, dryness etc because from the mutation the body cant process Vitamin A as it should anymore ?

Is that gene known to be changed by Accutane specifically is it??

I wasnt aware - if there are studies, pls post them. That sounds interesting

On 5/17/2019 at 6:50 PM, Ronnie99 said:

 

Inflammation is a problem, and being the HPA axis being dysregulated from accutance, specifically the glucocorticoids, one of there main jobs is to reduce inflammation, and from the study I posted earlier that could be the primary source of the inflammation.

With Mifepristone, in the study, once it was stopped the HPA axis continued to recover until it was in balance again. So possibly from the study it not just works initially but provides a reset in the short and long term.

 

Has anyone on this forum mentioned the BCO1 Vitamin A gene, couple studies I have read that if there is a mutation with this gene changed by Accutane can cause multiple issues from skin to testosterone, dryness etc because from the mutation the body cant process Vitamin A as it should anymore ?

I think bco1 is only associated with converting beta-carotene to the retins*, so this wouldn't affect retin* metabolism pathways.

" ...reading up on the negative feedback loop that should control the amount of beta carotene entering body. ISX is a transcription suppressor that is stimulated by retinoic acid and suppresses transcription of SCARB1 (main protein receptor allowingcarotenoid absorption) & BCO1 (enzyme that cleaves carotenoids into retinal). Therefore if there is plenty of RA then absorption and conversion of carotenoids is suppressed. However, it seems to me anecdotally that this does not happen in some people with vitamin A toxicity & therefore I hypothesis that the toxicity can mess up this nice negative feedback loop & people become super absorbers & converters of beta carotene."

This would add more vitamin A that needs to be converted to retinoic acid to excrete from the body, and a lot of that is converted to 13-cis-retinoic(accutane), before urinating and passing in stool.

• Normal levels of vitamin A in the body

• Increased levels of vitamin A

• Reduced conversion efficiency of beta-carotene to vitamin A

• Normal levels of vitamin A in the body

So has anyone had a beta carotene blood test? to disprove bcm01 mutation theory, so high level of beta carotene equals retinol deficiency.

I've only had serum retinol done which went down taking palmitate.

2 hours ago, Calcified said:

So has anyone had a beta carotene blood test? to disprove bcm01 mutation theory, so high level of beta carotene equals retinol deficiency.

I've only had serum retinol done which went down taking palmitate.

The theory/hypothesis is overload with beta-carotene, and it cascades out of control, meaning increased retinol -> retinoic acid. You end up in VA overload.

Few people on Grant's forum have DNA tested positive for this scenario using 23andMe. This happens without accutane, and most likely what happened to all us pre-accutane. We were all messed up before we took accutane, accutane just makes the VA overload worse.

14 hours ago, Calcified said:

So what your thinking is accutane reduced bacteria on treatment and still to this day?

Caused a chronic dysbiosis state? Yes possibly. this might be the slow burn or endless progressive cycle.

Deletion ofrdh7resulted in reduced RA signaling in immune cells, lower levels of IL-22, and an enhanced resistance to colonization by pathogen that exploits IL-22 induced antimicrobials to thrive in the gut. Supplementing mice deleted forrdh7with RA reversed the colonization resistance, revealing the significance of downregulation ofrdh7by commensal bacteria.

"we are demonstrating for the first time that bacterial regulation of RA provides a crucial feedback loop to curb excessive IL-22 activity in the gut."

http://www.jimmunol.org/content/200/1_Supplement/170.21

19 hours ago, Ronnie99 said:

 

Inflammation is a problem, and being the HPA axis being dysregulated from accutance, specifically the glucocorticoids, one of there main jobs is to reduce inflammation, and from the study I posted earlier that could be the primary source of the inflammation.

With Mifepristone, in the study, once it was stopped the HPA axis continued to recover until it was in balance again. So possibly from the study it not just works initially but provides a reset in the short and long term.

 

Has anyone on this forum mentioned the BCO1 Vitamin A gene, couple studies I have read that if there is a mutation with this gene changed by Accutane can cause multiple issues from skin to testosterone, dryness etc because from the mutation the body cant process Vitamin A as it should anymore ?

Its definitely interesting info to consider - no doubt about it. Mifepristone might be perfect for someone who doesnt have all the gut damage etc that I need to address.

At this stage for me Im just trusting that my kinesiologist knows what hes doing - so far hes not deterred by anything, seems to know where he wants to go with things. I mentioned glucocorticoid in particular when talking to him about Mifepristone....he knows all about it and its importance etc.

So yeah, love the info on genes and bacteria and how it effects this and that but until I have reason to go get all that stuff tested Im just trusting in my specialist and what hes telling me to take etc.

At the very least Ill have my gut healed and the gut/brain relationship working better again, if beyond that I happen to have a gene mutation or somethingat least I can tackle it knowing Ive repaired everything else thatsin my power.

One thing I know after years of issues - theres no quick fix in all of this - for me its prob 12 to 18 months of rebuilding everything.