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I need to supplement and need physical work done post Accutane to properly recover - Kinesiology
No amount of just avoiding Vit A will fix things like HPA dysfunction and chronic inflammation. I tried for years just supplementing and avoiding certain foods - didnt work unfortunately.
Id be very surprised if other victims dont have the same or similar issues to combat as me.
49 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:I need to supplement and need physical work done post Accutane to properly recover - Kinesiology
No amount of just avoiding Vit A will fix things like HPA dysfunction and chronic inflammation. I tried for years just supplementing and avoiding certain foods - didnt work unfortunately.
Id be very surprised if other victims dont have the same or similar issues to combat as me.
Just the skin for me really. Don't have the other issues you mentioned. Seems accutane attacked my skin but everything else recovered.
Painful heels have gone since avoiding vitamin A too though. That was another lasting symptom.
-Just a few takes on what I have experienced so far going both anti-dairy (6 weeks) and vitamin a (3 weeks)since some people on here appear to be throwing a hissy-fitover diet changes.
-Dairy should be a must stop no matter what. Yeah, Im sure that plenty of the diets people are taking arent really doing that much of anything (however I have heard that It seems like there is some kind of improvement when people are on diets that are restrictive in general), however, almost every diet I have heard people describe as effective involves cutting out dairy. For me, I have noticed a difference, because Ifeel less irritable now than i have in a long time. Obviously Im not naive enough to believe that cutting out dairy will solve all of your problems, but perhaps it can at the very least, lessen the slope of whatever downward trajectory we all seem to be on. I think for me its safe to say that Im not 100% on the road to recoveryat the moment, but I cant say Ive worsened significantly either (Im not declining at my normal rate where I feel worse every month which I will happily take).
Also, Ive noticed that I have been having a surge in testosterone at certain times (Ive began to hit the gym regularly again because of it). However, this past week was somewhat lower (I exercised heavily every singlenight, and I think that mightve worn me out).
-Whenever I go to clubs and parties now (Idont know how else to put this)but it seems that my mojo is somewhat back (for those of you who remember the movie Austin Powers).Ive also been responding to certain typed of music (ex Trance) in ways I used to respond a long time ago.
Negatives: I do feel like my sex drive isnt improving at the same rate it was say back in January (after I fasted).However, I cant say things have really regressed either which is a huge plus.
Obviously, Im taking everything as cautiously as possible, and learning to be more cynical. However, I do feel like I have seen positives, and will continue to guinnea-pig myself for the time being. Not drawing any long term conclusions about whether or not this is going to be successful. If the Anti VA theory is at least somewhat true (big IF), then I suppose it makes sense for me to wait for many more months before reaching major conclusions.
Also, I think whatever I am doing at the moment appears to be helping me with any issues I collected from my dumb attempt to take Propecia and improve things (worst mistake I have made since Accutane itself).
3 hours ago, cnb30 said:Whenever I go to clubs and parties now (Idont know how else to put this)but it seems that my mojo is somewhat back (for those of you who remember the movie Austin Powers).Ive also been responding to certain typed of music (ex Trance) in ways I used to respond a long time ago.
Awesome! This is how I have described my situation with libido loss and anhedonia. I LOST MY MOJO! I imagine Roche keeping it in a canning jar in a dark warehouse with my name and "vintage 1999" written on it.
Forgot whether I asked this before or if you responded: What was the result of your taking finasteride?
4 hours ago, Dubya_B said:Awesome! This is how I have described my situation with libido loss and anhedonia. I LOST MY MOJO! I imagine Roche keeping it in a canning jar in a dark warehouse with my name and "vintage 1999" written on it.
Forgot whether I asked this before or if you responded: What was the result of your taking finasteride?
Finasteride only made things worse
13 minutes ago, cnb30 said:Finasteride only made things worse
It was a ballsy move taking that but I commend you for trying!!
Not like Roche is ever going to show accountability for putting us in this shit - no responsibility what so ever from them.
It leaves people with little choice but to experiment to get their life back.
Good to hear youre having better days!!
have you seen this study?
Treatment of male rats with finasteride, an inhibitor of 5alpha-reductase enzyme, induces long-lasting effects on depressive-like behavior, hippocampal neurogenesis, neuroinflammation and gut microbiota composition
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306453018305067
One month offinasteridewithdrawal induced depressive-like behavior.
Decrease ofneurogenesisoccurred after one month of finasteride withdrawal.
GFAPimmunoreactivitywas increased after one month of finasteride withdrawal.
Finasteride treatment and its withdrawal inducedneuroinflammationinhippocampus.
Gut microbiotacomposition was affected by finasteride treatment and its withdrawal.
3 hours ago, cnb30 said:Finasteride only made things worse
Did you have any sort of temporary recovery before getting worse? Development of any new symptoms? Any other noteworthy observations? Sorry for being a pest, but I'm genuinely curious about this. I've gone as far as ordering finasteride when I was in a really dark place in the hopes of experiencing what it's like to be alive again, if only for a brief time, before I die, but backed out at the final moment. The pills are still sitting in my cabinet and I will probably never touch them again.
@guitarman01 Yes, very familiar with that study. Very confusing path that Prof. Melcagni's research has taken. He went from a very insightful study showing undetectable levels of key neurosteroids in the cerebrospibnal fluid of PFS patients to studying typical latent effects of finasteride in rats. How many of the rats had PFS, a condition that may have a rate of occurrence as low as 1/1,000 in humans? The vast majority of people who take the drug don't complain of lasting side-effects, even if they may have detectable long-term changes in their biology. This would be the same as trying to explain post-Accutane side-effects going by data on the typical Accutane patient, who is also unlikely to have severe lasting side-effects. The study you posted is interesting nonetheless, but isn't really a study of PFS if you think about it.
On a related note, something surprising I stumbled upon last Summer shows an effect of ATRA on neurosteroidogenesis in glial cells contradictory to what one would expect after studies have shown decreased hippocampal neurogenesis after ATRA treatment:
On 4/20/2019 at 11:00 PM, Dubya_B said:Did you have any sort of temporary recovery before getting worse? Development of any new symptoms? Any other noteworthy observations? Sorry for being a pest, but I'm genuinely curious about this. I've gone as far as ordering finasteride when I was in a really dark place in the hopes of experiencing what it's like to be alive again, if only for a brief time, before I die, but backed out at the final moment. The pills are still sitting in my cabinet and I will probably never touch them again.
@guitarman01 Yes, very familiar with that study. Very confusing path that Prof. Melcagni's research has taken. He went from a very insightful study showing undetectable levels of key neurosteroids in the cerebrospibnal fluid of PFS patients to studying typical latent effects of finasteride in rats. How many of the rats had PFS, a condition that may have a rate of occurrence as low as 1/1,000 in humans? The vast majority of people who take the drug don't complain of lasting side-effects, even if they may have detectable long-term changes in their biology. This would be the same as trying to explain post-Accutane side-effects going by data on the typical Accutane patient, who is also unlikely to have severe lasting side-effects. The study you posted is interesting nonetheless, but isn't really a study of PFS if you think about it.
On a related note, something surprising I stumbled upon last Summer shows an effect of ATRA on neurosteroidogenesis in glial cells contradictory to what one would expect after studies have shown decreased hippocampal neurogenesis after ATRA treatment:
A. Kushida and H. Tamura, Retinoic acids induce neurosteroid biosynthesis in human glial GI-1 Cells via the induction of steroidogenic genes, J. Biochem., vol. 146, no. 6, pp. 917923, Dec. 2009.H. K. Lee, M. S. Yoo, H. S. Choi, H. B. Kwon, and J. Soh, Retinoic acids up-regulate steroidogenic acute regulatory protein gene, Mol. Cell. Endocrinol., vol. 148, no. 12, pp. 110, Feb. 1999.
Nope, Only worse. Im so numb emotionally now that Im at a point where I cant even remember what its like to feel emotions. Sure, Ive had some improvements, and am hoping that things work out in the long run with this fast, but as a whole, this past year has been significantly worse (like every year)(other than some improvements post fasting).
Ive had some testosterone improvements since cutting out vitamin A though, but as a whole, I will be shocked if I am alive in 5years unless this diet really works (its been less than a month so Im hesitant to draw conclusions). Not because of any thoughts of suicide, but because I feel like something health wise (like a major organ)willfall apart to a point where I just randomly die, perhaps in my sleep or something.
I beg of you not to take that drug.
On 4/22/2019 at 7:18 AM, cnb30 said:Nope, Only worse. I™m so numb emotionally now that I™m at a point where I can™t even remember what it™s like to feel emotions. Sure, I™ve had some improvements, and am hoping that things work out in the long run with this fast, but as a whole, this past year has been significantly worse (like every year)(other than some improvements post fasting).
I™ve had some testosterone improvements since cutting out vitamin A though, but as a whole, I will be shocked if I am alive in 5 years unless this diet really works (it™s been less than a month so I™m hesitant to draw conclusions). Not because of any thoughts of suicide, but because I feel like something health wise (like a major organ) will fall apart to a point where I just randomly die, perhaps in my sleep or something.
I beg of you not to take that drug.
You'll be fine. I bet you live well into your 80s 
Life's funny like that.
4 hours ago, Justdry said:You'll be fine. I bet you live well into your 80s
Life's funny like that.
I don™t need the snark, and I hope somebody kicks you off of here if you keep it up. It™s unnecessary.
To be honest, I™ve been having serious suicidal thoughts again anyway. While certain things seem to temporarily improve when I do things, my depression/numbness seems to have worsened. I think it will be very hard for me to continue living unless I™m somehow able to push myself to get an architecture degree. I bet I will be dead within 5 years (hopefully if nothing gets better).
On 4/18/2019 at 2:02 PM, Akos said:TWO MORE ASSUMPTIONS MADE BY GRANT GENEREUX
Third assumption:
- Lard and casein contain retinoic acid. It is not impossible, but he knows this by thinking and reasoning, not by analyzing those things.
Remember that Genereux thinks that, in the Vitamin A deficiency experiments with rats, the animals worsened their health and then died because of the supposed content of RA in lard and casein.
ME: Have you confirmed that lard has indeed RA?
GG: I have not confirmed that. I don't have a lab. I'm just one guy. I have to rely on thinking and reasoning.
ME: As a reader, I would like to see a confirmation, something that could be achieved just by analyzing lard in a lab. And the same goes to RA in casein: Therefore, in their zeal for sterilizing the casein, they converted its included vitamin-A into its most toxic form. Is this confirmed in the lab?
GG: Me too, maybe someone can confirm this. That would be great.
Fourth assumption:
- Grant Genereuxs diet does not contain RA.
ME: Where do you see if a food has Vitamin A, just surfing the Web?
GG: Yes, just enter vitamin A in food X in a google search
ME: Are there foods with retinoic acid? How do you know if certain food has RA if the people who analyze it and list its nutritional facts dont look for RA?
GG: I've not found a listing of retinoic acid levels in foods.
--
ME: But if I cook a carrot, for example, is the VA transform into RA, by means of heating and aeration?
GG: I think it could be. But, I don't have lab tests to back that up yet. Tomatoes would be risky too.
ME: You eat applesauce, arent you eating RA?
GG: I don't think so. The apple sauce is very low in VA and therefore I doubt that it has retinoic acid (RA). Also, I only very occasionally eat apple sauce.
So, he doesnt know for sure if applesauce has RA, but he is not worried because it contains only a small amount of VA.
Hey, thanks for the additional info. This is still a work in progress theory, so there will be those against and those for testing, those points have come up lots.
Some people are seeing progress doing low VA, that have either been on isotretinoin or just consumed to much carotenoids or pre-formed VA. Jury is still out, but hopefully people will find these posts and make there own informed decisions.
I am close to 6months and will report at one year how things have proceeded.
4 minutes ago, under_tow said:Hey, thanks for the additional info. This is still a work in progress theory, so there will be those against and those for testing, those points have come up lots.
Some people are seeing progress doing low VA, that have either been on isotretinoin or just consumed to much carotenoids or pre-formed VA. Jury is still out, but hopefully people will find these posts and make there own informed decisions.
I am close to 6months and will report at one year how things have proceeded.
Are your symptoms emotional/sexual by any chance? Have you seen any improvement?
38 minutes ago, cnb30 said:Are your symptoms emotional/sexual by any chance? Have you seen any improvement?
Hey @cnb30
I have all skin related issues; yellow discoloration, redness, excessive dryness/flaking, excessive sebum oil, plugged pores, dandruff, hair shedding, etc..
I did not get mental and sexual sides, like many have reported, I suspect that they were very minor for me. If I got those with the skin issues, I probably would not be here anymore...
Seeing less shrinkage on the low VA diet, more nocturnal wood, and libido is strong.
I hope the benefits continue, rooting for you man!
14 minutes ago, under_tow said:Hey @cnb30
I have all skin related issues; yellow discoloration, redness, excessive dryness/flaking, excessive sebum oil, plugged pores, dandruff, hair shedding, etc..
I did not get mental and sexual sides, like many have reported, I suspect that they were very minor for me. If I got those with the skin issues, I probably would not be here anymore...
Seeing less shrinkage on the low VA diet, more nocturnal wood, and libido is strong.
I hope the benefits continue, rooting for you man!
Eh, Im not sure if Im having benefits, or its just psychosomatic.
Anyway, with the way my mental health has declined the past year, Im probably going to be dead within a couple months anyway. Thanks for letting me know that the no Vit A diet actually doesnt help me with anything I need, and that its just for people with dryness.
Also, if you are not dealing with mental/sexual side effects, you are in no position to naively claim it will all get better (and of course include your stupid snarky emoji).
2 hours ago, cnb30 said:Thanks for letting me know that the no Vit A diet actually doesnt help me with anything I need, and that its just for people with dryness.
Those I just my symptoms(most of them common), everyone is different.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis_A#Signs_and_symptoms
Lists on the sexual sides, that I hope would benefit from depleting VA:
2 hours ago, cnb30 said:Also, if you are not dealing with mental/sexual side effects, you are in no position to naively claim it will all get better (and of course include your stupid snarky emoji).
I am not claiming it will get better, the only way to tell if it will help you, is to put in the time. There is no cost, just the effort of avoiding VA foods.
Sure he can do the Anti A diet but hell be disappointed if down the track its found HPA is screwed and needs attention to fix.
Thats attention from a specialist. So again, people need to stop self diagnosing and do the hard yards by working with someone.
You can avoid Vit A simultaneously if you want - the two dont have to be seperate!!
That Zinc/Copper relationship is bang on!!!
remember many many pages ago there were heaps of us with Copper issues post tane.
I wish I could find a genuine link but I saw it in my Kinesiologistsroom today - a chart onNeuroimmunolgy, the Zinc/Copper relationship is stated loud and clear on it - its a fundamental aspect of repairing our immune systems!!
Much of this breaking down of biofilms that Ive been banging on about is stated in chart too, all in relation to rebuilding Immune system
The end goal is all about balancing left and right sides of brain. Admittedly that doesnt explain very much but what much of us have been banging on about all these years here on forumfits together with this kinesiology work Im pursuing right now.
Start reading upon Neuroimmunolgy if nothing else.
On 4/23/2019 at 3:09 PM, cnb30 said:I dont need the snark, and I hope somebody kicks you off of here if you keep it up. Its unnecessary.
To be honest, Ive been having serious suicidal thoughts again anyway. While certain things seem to temporarily improve when I do things, my depression/numbness seems to have worsened. I think it will be very hard for me to continue living unless Im somehow able to push myself to get an architecture degree. I bet I will be dead within 5 years (hopefully if nothing gets better).
I wasn't being snarky. I thought you meant dead from post accutanehealth not mental health.
Also, the more I think about it, the more I realized that I think Propecia mightve done damage to my pituitary gland. I dont know how else to describe this but its almost like its constantly pumping something in my head to the point where it hurts. Also, its intensely worse right after masturbating. Anybody have any idea what I can do to deal with the problem?
5 hours ago, cnb30 said:Also, the more I think about it, the more I realized that I think Propecia mightve done damage to my pituitary gland. I dont know how else to describe this but its almost like its constantly pumping something in my head to the point where it hurts. Also, its intensely worse right after masturbating. Anybody have any idea what I can do to deal with the problem?
Have you ever had your prolactin levels checked out? If they are high, it could be indicative of a prolactinoma which is a benign tumor that sits on the pituitary gland that constantly secretes prolactin into your system.
Elevated prolactin levels can cause erectile dysfunction and low libido (I have read cases of people reporting absolutely zero libido, similar to many people here, due to elevated prolactin). Elevated prolactin can also effect your "drive" for life too since it's an antagonist of dopamine. Prolactinomas can also cause headaches, and although I am no doctor, at first glance it makes sense that you get a headache after masturbation because prolactin is released after climax.
Do you have any vision problems? They are associated with prolactinomas as well.
1 hour ago, HumaneCyclone said:Have you ever had your prolactin levels checked out? If they are high, it could be indicative of a prolactinoma which is a benign tumor that sits on the pituitary gland that constantly secretes prolactin into your system.
Elevated prolactin levels can cause erectile dysfunction and low libido (I have read cases of people reporting absolutely zero libido, similar to many people here, due to elevated prolactin). Elevated prolactin can also effect your "drive" for life too since it's an antagonist of dopamine. Prolactinomas can also cause headaches, and although I am no doctor, at first glance it makes sense that you get a headache after masturbation because prolactin is released after climax.
Do you have any vision problems? They are associated with prolactinomas as well.
I dont think Ive had too many vision problems, although the tumor would make sense as I remember people mentioning it as a possible Finasteride side effect. Also, it feels as though someone is slowly secreting some sort of cold mist through my dopamine passageways as well (if thats what prolactin feels like). You arent the first person to have mentioned increased prolactin either, but that would make sense.
Is there anything I can do about it? Im kinda back at a point where I feel as though Im at the end of a string, and I dont want to live anymore if it means being in the state Im currently in.
I also took Abilify for a time, and I know that increases prolactin levels too, right?
Also, I should add that I dont really have the money or time to get these tests done, and dont know how the hell to convince my parents.
7 hours ago, cnb30 said:Also, the more I think about it, the more I realized that I think Propecia mightve done damage to my pituitary gland. I dont know how else to describe this but its almost like its constantly pumping something in my head to the point where it hurts. Also, its intensely worse right after masturbating. Anybody have any idea what I can do to deal with the problem?
Could be HPA dysfunction- extended periods of raised cortisol levels have depleted the system, adrenal fatigue sets in amongst gut issues and depression.
Id work on the theory thats its related to this over a tumour but itwouldnt hurt to get prolactin tested just to be sure.
I go in each week for my kinesiology treatment and raise the possibility that I have this and that, my specialist says he doubts it - hes pretty sure he knows whats going on so far. This week I even mentioned Myopathy due to muscle fatigue but he dismissed it.
Accutane can cause myopathy and it can cause tumour growth - these are both documented. Soagain I stress the importance of working with a specialist, if nothing else it will ease the burden of trying to work all this shit out for yourself- thats just too stressful in my opinion
let us know if you do any tests - post results if thats ok.