Not everyone gets depressed after taking isotretinoin it does however impair brain function ,MRI's prove it . Some people only feel dryness others are not so lucky . It really is a gamble with your health . Having said that severe cystic acne can make one depressed as hell I guess .

[Edited link out] here is the other side of the story .

On 7/20/2016 at 10:23 PM, Gladiatoro said:

Not everyone gets depressed after taking isotretinoin it does however impair brain function ,MRI's prove it . Some people only feel dryness others are not so lucky . It really is a gamble with your health . Having said that severe cystic acne can make one depressed as hell I guess .

[Edited link out]here is the other side of the story .

Iagree. My issue is that doctors don't usually give the patient he risks and potential for disaster so they can really weigh their options. Some people will escape pretty unscathed but many will regret taking it. Acne is horrible and I don't blame people wanting to try anything to get clear but severe cystic acne is different from mild moderate acne which can usually be treated by other means.

On 7/20/2016 at 9:10 PM, Iamme. said:

If it's an attempt then you're doing it wrong

well most people don't truly want to die, they want to stop feeling pain. My boyfriend left the car running in a garage but by sheer lucvk his grandfather found him.

34 minutes ago, snarkygirl said:

My issue is that doctors don't usually give the patient he risks and potential for disaster so they can really weigh their options. Some people will escape pretty unscathed but many will regret taking it. Acne is horrible and I don't blame people wanting to try anything to get clear but severe cystic acne is different from mild moderate acne which can usually be treated by other means

Agreed. If they actually followed protocol I wouldn't be in this situation. Mild acne was not worth the risks associated. I was verbally never told of the potential side effects. Hope Roche and that old fart dermatologist enjoy the $$$.

I would venture to say that isotretinoin is the worlds most dangerous drug.

Square 1 stuff.....

Finasteride and Accutane both bind to NADPH.

NADPH is used to turn testosterone into DHT

NADPH is used to detoxify retinoids via the CYP26A1.   CYP26A doesnt work without NADPH 

a low ceruloplasmin connection?

Thiamine and zinc are needed to produce gastric acid HCL.   this could tie into the Candida and SIBO problem.   without enough stomach acid to digest... you run into all of those problems.

The majority of our bodies NADPH is produced on the Pentose Phosphate pathway.  Thiamine (B1) is the cofactor for this.   Thiamine deficiency is also seen in low ceruloplasmin.  Thiamine is used to treat peripheral neuropathy 

Our bodies synthesize retinoic acid from retinol using ALDH1 .  ALDH1 is inhibited by NADPH and NAD+  stopping the conversion of excess  retinoic acid. [Edited link out]

[Edited link out]

Ways to increase NADPH:

so Benfotiamine is a fast way to get thiamine into your system increasing NADPH

Megadosing Thiamine itself.  1500mg is the saturation point.  

NAD+  can be bought on Amazon.   

2 hours ago, Gladiatoro said:

I would venture to say that isotretinoin is the worlds most dangerous drug.

well...that and sugar

Nah I hope he chokes on a dick. Lol

On 7/16/2016 at 9:53 PM, Iamme. said:

Could someone recap on the 5ari theory. I thought accutane had already a achieved this, how could inhibiting it further reduce symptoms ?

Oversimplified Summary of 5-ari-W theory:

Before 5ari use:

• Intracellular DHT levels in affected tissues -> Normal
• Androgen Receptor concentration in affected tissues -> Normal
• Unknown factor contributing to androgen sensitivity/signalling -> Normal

*You feel normal.

During 5ari use:

• Intracellular DHT levels in affected tissues -> Low
• Androgen Receptor concentration in affected tissues -> Very High (in response to low androgen levels)
• Unknown factor contributing to androgen sensitivity/signalling -> Normal or High (in response to low androgen levels)

*You feel normal or mild side effects

When DHT-suppressing effect of 5ari subsides:

• Intracellular DHT levels in affected tissues -> Normal
• Androgen Receptor concentration in affected tissues -> Still Very High
• Unknown factor contributing to androgen sensitivity/signalling -> Still Normal or High

*You feel a recovery or even hyper-androgenic for a short time. Unknown factor is down-regulated, possibly through persistent DNA methylation. This happens in response to a perceived excess of androgens when DHT levels return to normal in the presence of very high concentration of AR.

After development of symptoms:

• Intracellular DHT levels in affected tissues -> Normal or low
• Androgen Receptor concentration in affected tissues -> Very High
• Unknown factor contributing to androgen sensitivity/signalling -> Very Low

*AR is persistently over-expressed to compensate for a weak androgen signal. This over-expresion of AR has been observed in studies of PFS patients.

The idea behind taking another 5-ARI is to induce the low-androgen environment again in hopes that the unknown factor will be increased to normal levels again to compensate, restoring androgen sensitivity. The second intention is for DHT to return to normal levels this time without triggering the same mechanism that caused the problem in the first place.

somebody thought of this years ago on the propecia boards.. no responses.
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1401&sid=ef236b7938c5692435827c12b35046af

what if you try to push thru this conversion by increasing the production of NADPH using Benfotiamine?  

Another set of enzymes that are dependent on NADPH are the nitric oxide synthases (37, 38). NADPH provides reducing power such that nitric oxide synthase (NOS) is able to convert arginine to citrulline and nitric oxide (NO).

Thiamin is an essential coenzyme for transketolase, which is part of the pentose phosphate pathway that helps maintain cellular NADPH levels. In a study of hepatocytes with glyoxal toxicity, thiamin was cytoprotective and restored NADPH levels, glyoxal detoxification and mitochondrial membrane potential [137]. NADPH cytochrome c-reductase levels were increased in TD animals [138]. Benfotiamine treatments under both normo- and hyper-glycemic conditions significantly downregulated Nox4 expression [139]. In addition, animals fed a high-thiamine diet had approximately 57% of the NADPHcytochrome c reductase activity of those fed a TD diet [140]. Taken together, thiamine may involve in protecting autism by regulating NADPH-cytochrome c activity.

AR over-expression  and nox4

These results suggest a role for BLT2 in AR expression and the survival of AR-positive prostate cancer cells. Moreover, we found that the NADPH oxidase family protein, Nox4, lay downstream of BLT2 and mediated the production of reactive oxygen species (ROS) and subsequent NF-ºB stimulation, thereby inducing AR expression. Taken together, our results demonstrate that BLT2 plays a critical role in AR expression via a Nox4-ROS-NF-ºB-linked pathway http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22426480

vs.

The expression of NADPH oxidase 4 (NOX4) was significantly downregulated by benfotiamine treatment under both normo- and hyperglycemic conditions. Gene set enrichment analysis (GSEA) showed that befotiamine increased peroxisomal lipid oxidation and organelle (mitochondrial) membrane function. In conclusion, benfotiamine increases mitochondrial glucose oxidation in myotubes and downregulates NOX4 expression. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21984258

Hey, im back. Sorry for being gone so long, ill check out what ive been missing and respond to the people messaging and tagging me in posts.

Hope you all are still staying strong. Glad to see you are still working on theories @tryingtohelp2014

31 minutes ago, tryingtohelp2014 said:

somebody thought of this years ago on the propecia boards.. no responses.
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1401&sid=ef236b7938c5692435827c12b35046af

 

 

2 hours ago, snarkygirl said:

well...that and sugar

Nah I hope he chokes on a dick. Lol

True sugar is the cause of most obesity in the developed world and all its health consequences , that and processed GMO junk food , in the third world things like acne , diabetes , heart disease are pretty much non existent. Hmmmm endless lies....

12 hours ago, Gladiatoro said:

True sugar is the cause of most obesity in the developed world and all its health consequences , that and processed GMO junk food , in the third world things like acne , diabetes , heart disease are pretty much non existent. Hmmmm endless lies....

Well it's half true. Heart disease don't exist in third world country because they die much younger than in west and average age is lower. Besides if you heart start to fail in western country you can stil live decades. In third world country is often death sentene.
Acne... well that's true I think but what are the causes? I mean I live in second world country so processed GMO junk food appeared here in the 90'. Yet my mom had acne and I and my brother have acne. I never seen acne on people with dark skin, only on whites and asians. Maybe just white people are more prone to acne?
Diabeties - that's true but for type 2.
People in western world have more illnesses, that's true but I think primary cause is that people with illness in third world country JUST DIE. The same with junk food, it's kinda blessing. I mean there were times in western world where people died in thousands or milions beause of famine. Even McDonald every day is WAY better than dirt.

14 hours ago, Gladiatoro said:

True sugar is the cause of most obesity in the developed world and all its health consequences , that and processed GMO junk food , in the third world things like acne , diabetes , heart disease are pretty much non existent. Hmmmm endless lies....

for me its the most addicting. I can leave alcohol, drugs and sex but give me cake and cookies and hohos...!

1 hour ago, Umas said:

Well it's half true. Heart disease don't exist in third world country because they die much younger than in west and average age is lower. Besides if you heart start to fail in western country you can stil live decades. In third world country is often death sentene.
Acne... well that's true I think but what are the causes? I mean I live in second world country so processed GMO junk food appeared here in the 90'. Yet my mom had acne and I and my brother have acne. I never seen acne on people with dark skin, only on whites and asians. Maybe just white people are more prone to acne?
Diabeties - that's true but for type 2.
People in western world have more illnesses, that's true but I think primary cause is that people with illness in third world country JUST DIE. The same with junk food, it's kinda blessing. I mean there were times in western world where people died in thousands or milions beause of famine. Even McDonald every day is WAY better than dirt.

thats an interesting point.
Where are you from?

13 minutes ago, snarkygirl said:

for me its the most addicting. I can leave alcohol, drugs and sex but give me cake and cookies and hohos...! thats an interesting point.
Where are you from?

Poland. Acne is rather rare here(well except mild version), that's why with my moderate acne I always feeled like severe acne. Poland is pretty monoethnic country, 95% are polish, and 99% are white but I never seen acne on black person, or even someone with darker skin(Italians, Greeks, Turks). There was student exchange with China on my university and some of students from there had really horyfic acne. Yet group from Italy had perfect skin and they ate junk food, drink etc. Also type severe acne on google - almost all pitures are white or asians, that's why I think that genetic predisposition is important because otherwise people with darker skin but living in western countries should have equal amounts of skin problems. Now I'm not saying that junk food, GMO, pollution don't have nothing to do with it. It's just complicated, and there are a lot of different variables to be considered.

No doubt that life expectancy has gone up here in the first world, but what about the incidence of cancer and disease, which has also gone up. I follow Roche's stocks and portfolios as well as other companies. You know what's the most lucrative product in the industry and the basis of everyone's profits at the moment? Oncology and cancer therapies. And this is just from a complete business perspective if you were considering investing money into these companies. It would be one thing if the profits were going back into R&D or to the scientists salaries, but the profits are going to the marketers, putting their kids through private school and making their car,house,yacht payments.

People are right to be skeptical about the food nowadays that don't grow mold after months. These preservatives are relatively new and people consume them everyday. We just recently found out sucralose has a direct correlation to cancer! How many years went by with people consuming Diet Soda? 20?! Two decades of companies selling it and people consuming it on a daily basis! Its incredible.

I give now an update of my situation.

Ive started for 3 weeks to go a new pathway for a recovery. It seems that SIBO (Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth) is the main cause for all my symptoms although I dont have typical side effects like vomiting, nausea and diarrhea for Sibo.

Ive stopped taking copper and dhea.

Some people posted here that Sibo is just a secondary symptom, but I dont share this opinion. For me are adrenal dysfunction, IBS and hormone imbalance the results of Sibo.

That would explain why I have a permanent low vitamin d level and why I cant gain weight and no supplement has healed me.

Im using now this supplements / food:

SIBO treatment:

- Low fodmap diet (to starve out the bacteria in the small intestine)

- Bacterial clean supplement (to kill the bacteria in the small intestine)

(It contains black walnuts, wormwood, thyme leaf, etc)

- Glutamine 2500mg (to repair the intestinal lining)

Adrenal Support:

- 5000 IU vitamin D3

- 4000mg taurine

Results so far:

- Heavy sweating and hot flushes has gone

- Sleep disorders has improved

- Revival of morning erections

Its really hard to keep on with the low fodmap diet. Sometimes when I spent my leisure time friends I cheat a bit with the food.

Im still suffering on brainfog, dizziness in the morning, irritability and I also sleep too long.

Mostly I feel good when I can relax.

4 hours ago, Tom87 said:

I give now an update of my situation.

Ive started for 3 weeks to go a new pathway for a recovery. It seems that SIBO (Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth) is the main cause for all my symptoms although I dont have typical side effects like vomiting, nausea and diarrhea for Sibo.

Ive stopped taking copper and dhea.

Some people posted here that Sibo is just a secondary symptom, but I dont share this opinion. For me are adrenal dysfunction, IBS and hormone imbalance the results of Sibo.

That would explain why I have a permanent low vitamin d level and why I cant gain weight and no supplement has healed me.

Im using now this supplements / food:

SIBO treatment:

- Low fodmap diet (to starve out the bacteria in the small intestine)

- Bacterial clean supplement (to kill the bacteria in the small intestine)

(It contains black walnuts, wormwood, thyme leaf, etc)

- Glutamine 2500mg (to repair the intestinal lining)

Adrenal Support:

- 5000 IU vitamin D3

- 4000mg taurine

Results so far:

- Heavy sweating and hot flushes has gone

- Sleep disorders has improved

- Revival of morning erections

Its really hard to keep on with the low fodmap diet. Sometimes when I spent my leisure time friends I cheat a bit with the food.

Im still suffering on brainfog, dizziness in the morning, irritability and I also sleep too long.

Mostly I feel good when I can relax.

your heavy sweating.... did it mainly start on your forehead.. and then the rest of body... like sweating thru your shirt? that could be the Vit D.

also....
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19083422

@tryingtohelp2014

Whats your current regimen?
Have you made any new study findings. Ive been coming up empty handed in these past months which is why i havent posted in the forum in the last 80 pages of this thread.

We still stuck on the methionine theory and people discussing cbd oil?
Any luck with SAM-e and taurine etc? inositol ?

This study kind of seems like a big deal to me. Altered bacteria not only in our gut, but our nose and throat?
Its crazy this could mean everything we eat, every supplement we take, even what we inhale, could make us better or worse. That's why something like this could continue to spiral out of control

The effects of systemic isotretinoin and antibiotic therapy on the microbial floras in patients with acne vulgaris.

14 hours ago, macleod said:

No doubt that life expectancy has gone up here in the first world, but what about the incidence of cancer and disease, which has also gone up. I follow Roche's stocks and portfolios as well as other companies. You know what's the most lucrative product in the industry and the basis of everyone's profits at the moment? Oncology and cancer therapies. And this is just from a complete business perspective if you were considering investing money into these companies. It would be one thing if the profits were going back into R&D or to the scientists salaries, but the profits are going to the marketers, putting their kids through private school and making their car,house,yacht payments.

People are right to be skeptical about the food nowadays that don't grow mold after months. These preservatives are relatively new and people consume them everyday. We just recently found out sucralose has a direct correlation to cancer! How many years went by with people consuming Diet Soda? 20?! Two decades of companies selling it and people consuming it on a daily basis! Its incredible.

I agree. Cancer "industry" is disgusting, well almost all pharma industry is dusguisting. But I think we just lack of perspetive. My body as messed up by antibiotics but I'm not blaiming antibiotics only stupid derms who missused them and myself for being foolish. Antibiotics are wonderful because they an save lives. I mean I wouldn't think long to save my life using antibiotics if side effect is messing with my gut flora, even badly.
Same with preservatives and other things added to food. Without them there would be more hunger in the world(and still many people die from hunger every day). What will you choose eating McDonald and drink diet soda every day or die from hunger?
Those things I think are not bad in themselves, they are bad because "they"(big business mainly) lie about those things. Just like smoking company lied about ciggarets. Now everybody know the risk, so it's your choice. I think that should be with everywthing, accutane including. Derm should tell someone with severe acne who wants acutane "well, there's big chance that accutane will badly mess with your body, but there's also big chance that will cure most of your acne"
Besides for me this is a little bit theoretical because even as close to "west" as Poland food is still different. I can't eat anything in Germany because everything is so unnatural, we still like to make our foods by ourselves or buy from loal farmers. I think in western world people are starting to do this also. Biggest problem is in USA because it's packed by GMO, and junk food is so cheap. For example in Poland fast food are not so popular because it's... really expensive! I mean one big mac can cost equally(or more!) to whole dinner with potatoes, pork chop and some vegetables. I don't know how long it will stay the same way, but at least nowadays food is my country is still eatable.
Besides I tink that there is variable that ontributes to many of those illnesses and diseases. Stress and all this "rat race". People shouldn't live like this in constant stress. Body can take a loot of beating but not when it doesn't have time to regenerate.

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/321328-accutane-treatment-decreases-testosterone/

On 7/21/2016 at 0:08 PM, Tom87 said:

I give now an update of my situation.

Ive started for 3 weeks to go a new pathway for a recovery. It seems that SIBO (Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth) is the main cause for all my symptoms although I dont have typical side effects like vomiting, nausea and diarrhea for Sibo.

Ive stopped taking copper and dhea.

Some people posted here that Sibo is just a secondary symptom, but I dont share this opinion. For me are adrenal dysfunction, IBS and hormone imbalance the results of Sibo.

That would explain why I have a permanent low vitamin d level and why I cant gain weight and no supplement has healed me.

Im using now this supplements / food:

SIBO treatment:

- Low fodmap diet (to starve out the bacteria in the small intestine)

- Bacterial clean supplement (to kill the bacteria in the small intestine)

(It contains black walnuts, wormwood, thyme leaf, etc)

- Glutamine 2500mg (to repair the intestinal lining)

Adrenal Support:

- 5000 IU vitamin D3

- 4000mg taurine

Results so far:

- Heavy sweating and hot flushes has gone

- Sleep disorders has improved

- Revival of morning erections

Its really hard to keep on with the low fodmap diet. Sometimes when I spent my leisure time friends I cheat a bit with the food.

Im still suffering on brainfog, dizziness in the morning, irritability and I also sleep too long.

Mostly I feel good when I can relax.

SIBO has to be a secondary symptom....as SIBO doesnt shut off the sebaceous glands. SIBO is just one of 200 symptoms... but i believe every symptom points to the problem.

Can someone who understands the science better please explain to me how accutane affects dopamine?

42 minutes ago, QuietSoldier said:

Can someone who understands the science better please explain to me how accutane affects dopamine?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alexander-m-spring/accutane-putting-your-per_b_1314233.html
http://max001.proboards.com/board/15/section-affected-neurotransmitters-parts-brain
heres some links on it...basically accutane kills serotonin and inhibits dopamine in many people.

15 minutes ago, snarkygirl said:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alexander-m-spring/accutane-putting-your-per_b_1314233.html
http://max001.proboards.com/board/15/section-affected-neurotransmitters-parts-brain
heres some links on it...basically accutane kills serotonin and inhibits dopamine in many people.

Thank you. So would ridding the body of leftover tane fix this problem? Or has the drug changed our DNA?